BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Sure, Friday 4-6? You can pick the location. V.B.

I have the mornign of Thurs 25th available, so I can grab teh same spot as last time, 7a-9a, 5th & Bigelo, Oakland.

Plis I still have copies the paperwork from when I did the count there in Sept.

Let me know if this will suffice for your talling needs.

@Pbeaver - that would be great, thanks!

KK, i'll print the docs @ work today & have you some tallys by lunch tomorrow.

Update.

Bike Counts for 5th & Bigelow, 10/25/12. Clear Sunny, 07:00 – 09:00

Total Riders: 82

M: 62

F: 19

Helmets:

M: 47

F: 14

No Helmet:

M: 15

F: 5

Used Sidewalk: 13

Used Bus-lane: 3

Bus Mounted: 2

Red Lights Ran: 6

Recumbent Bikes: 1

Tow Behind Kids: 1

Red Lights Ran: 6 out of 82...

Of course that's not exactly the best location to run a red light on a bike...

And from yesterday afternoon, corner of Forbes and Craig:

Total Cyclists 129

Total Men 106

with helmets 52 49.1%

no helmets 54 50.9%

Total Women 23

with helmets 11 47.8%

no helmets 12 52.2%

% Male 82.2%

% Female17.8%

% helmet use all genders 0.49%

Only one recumbent. A couple of bikes on buses. A LOT of sidwalk riding near the intersection, most surprisingly by men not wearing helmets. A pretty law abiding crowd.

The biggest change from earlier counts at this location (based on memory, not a formal scan of data) was that there was a lot of bike movement inbound on Forbes, then turning north on Craig. Many looked really young - maybe Central Catholic kids?

A great day for counting cyclists. And, as one occasional bike counter pointed out as they rode passed, a great day for a bike ride!

I can count 7-9 downtown tomorrow. I work at 7th and smithfield, but let me know if you have an exact corner you want me to watch

That'd be great, Joe, thanks!

Do you want to do one in the heart of downtown? We haven't done a count at Sixth and Smithfield in a while, and that is close to your office.

Otherwise, we could use counts at either 11th and Penn (by the Greyhound Station) or at the Bike and Blade Station on the eliza Furnace Trail. One of those might be convenient if you ride in these days.

Let me know the location, and an email address where I can send the form and instructions. You can PM that info, if you'd like.

@Joe;

I am heading out to do counts this afternoon. Probably can't get you the full form/instructions. But, you can do the count anyway.....

Pick one of the three locations above. Count cyclists on each of the streets (if at an intersection location). Monitor gender and helmet use, if you can. The best shorthand is something like:

Inbound MH, MH, FNH, FH, MNH

Outbound MH, MH

Where M-male, F-female, H-helmet, NH-No helmet.

Be safe. Dress for the weather (coolish in mornings). Bring something to drink. Bring 2 pens. If you get weirded out about anything at that location, discontinue count and leave.

That's about it. Oh, and record the time you start and stop the count. We strive for 2 hours, but understand that some people start a few minutes late, have to leave a tad early, etc.

Of the Red Light Runners i had today they were more of Red Light Creepers.

Rolled up & stopped, then went thru.

2 were inbound on 5th, the rest were turning corners.

None had blown thru the light @ speed.

I'll be at 6th and smithfield in 7 hours.

I counted at Fifth and Neville last evening. It was a great day, and I saw lots of activity. But, it generated a question in my own mind.

Is there a time when sidewalk riding (by adults) is ok?

There is a high percentage of sidewalk riders at this intersection, for a variety of reasons. I am listing the predominant trends. Which of these are truly problematic, and which are circumstance based?

1. Left turn from Fifth outbound to northbound Neville. Most riders ride this normally, but a good number prefer to take a modified pedestrian approach, approaching the intersection from the Fifth Avenue Sidewalk, and then crossing Fifth at the signal, and resuming their ride in the street on Craig.

(for most riders, this is the routing that would take you from Fifth to Neville to Ellsworth....)

2. Fifth inbound (on both sides of Fifth). This is just after the Junction Hollow/Panther Hollow Bridge, so there is little development on Fifth. Some continue inbound on Fifth (still on the sidewalk) others turn north on Neville, mostly staying on the sidewalk on Craig.

3. Coming up from the trail via Neville. This is a steep hill, and many are walking their bikes part of the way. But many are riding, and riding on the sidewalk. Most junp to the street as they turn on Fifth, or continue north to Neville/Ellsworth.

Are any or all of these really problematic? Even in a high pedestrian area like Oakland?

I saw a LOT of law abiding riding, although the use of turn signals could have been improved upon..... Other than the sidewalk riding, it was a great example of responsible riding by more than 200 riders. But, are the sidewalk riders really doing anything dangerous (all were moving slowly, and trying to be considerate of pedestrians, etc. Some were moving so slowly they were being passed by pedestrians!)

So, my training tells me sidewalk riding in this area is illegal (it's almost certainly a business district, right?) But, with one possible exception, I couldn't really see how the bikes on the sidewalk were putting anyone else in jeopardy.

I'd love to hear what you all think about this.

Yeahhhhh so it turns out I set my alarm for 7:30 and not 6:30. Sorry

No problem. We are very understanding with our volunteers. We appreciate all offers to help - even when it doesn't quite result in usable data.

@swalfoort - I thought that might be you that I saw at that corner as I was heading out (sadly, driving)...

Anyway, personally, I think that the sidewalk riding at that intersection there actually is kind of problematic. There's a lot of pedestrian activity at that intersection, going in all directions. I worry about the risk of cyclist-pedestrian collisions. They're all at low speed, I guess, but it seems like a danger.

And related to that, the fact that there are SO many cyclists that go through that intersection, and yet SO many feel like they have to hit the sidewalk there in order to make any kind of safe crossing indicates that the city needs to improve the intersection's safety.

(I go through there all the time but I stay on the street, and get in that left hand turn lane from outbound Fifth to northbound Neville, that green arrow is my friend.)

I'll go to the barometer of Copenhagen/Amsterdam, to check:



I don't see a problem, as long as everyone is reasonable and uses COMMON SENSE. There's the hitch.

FWIW, saying nothing about safety, but riding the sidewalk there is perfectly legal. The only business there is the Korean grocery on the corner; otherwise the surroundings are all residential. (High-rise residential, to be sure, but residential nevertheless.)

@Swalfoort I don't like sidewalk riding. I saw a couple almost collisions with pedestrians going from the trail (boundary/Neville north) and taking right turn at 5th.

@buffalo buffalo Unfortunately it's not about business on 5th, it's about being business district. City does not allow us to ride on sidewalks in business districts. http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bureaus/pdBikePed.nsf/infoForward?OpenForm 3508(b)

@edmonds59 http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bureaus/pdBikePed.nsf/infoForward?OpenForm 3504(b) these two ladies would be violating the law in PA.

@Mikhail: The question is what defines a business district? Somebody posted a complicated rule where you compute the number of feet of commercial building frontage within a certain distance of a spot. By that rule this location might not be a business district. (On the other hand, don't zoning laws determine that? Couldn't the city council pass a resolution declaring certain blocks part of a business district? I don't know the definitive answer.)

At first I thought edmonds59's photo depicted cyclists on the sidewalk, but no, the woman on the right is just crossing the sidewalk, heading to another street or parking lot or something off to the right. We should import some of that European common sense; it sounds great.

@swalfoort Is there a time when sidewalk riding (by adults) is ok?

Warning. Rant ahead.

I'm generally an advocate of sensible sidewalk riding. For example, around Oakland and the East End on weekend nights, when there are (understatement) a few drunks on the streets.

The other day, Wed Oct 17, at about 7:20) I had an interaction that appalled me. I was going along the bus lane east towards the Pitt Book Store.

I was slowly going through a red light at Thackaey, when a guy on a bike camne down Thackery and almost collided with me.

I felt pretty abashed, what with me going through the red and all. Later I analyzed what had happend and I felt better (more below.) Going through a red light and almost colliding with a cyclist who had a green made realize that some thing I do are not cool, though.

The guy went up on the sidewalk and kept going at the roughly same speed I was travelling.

Now, I have a (deserved) reputation for being slow, it's true. Still, I was going much faster than is cool on a sidewalk. Even if it were an unoccupied sidewalk with good visibility.

This sidewalk wasn't clear. The guy passed maybe two dozen pedestrians in the block to Bigelow. There are blind corners and doorways there. There a metal railing on one side and buildings on the other that prevent evasive maneuvers. At any moment a pedestrian he was passing could have said "OOOPS! I forgot my...." and turned around suddenly.

Pedestrians have a right not to expect anyone to be moving along that major walkway at 10 or 12 mph.

If I had felt obliged to take the sidewalk there, it ws so busy that I would have gotten off my bike and walked it. It was too busy to be able ride at 5 mph safely.(and this guy was going somewhere in the double digits.)

I was appalled.

Later I was passing the CMU library on Frew street and the guy came past - on the sidewalk, scattering some pedstrians that were there.

I said something to to him - fairly nicely I thought - about sidewalks being for pedestrians and that what he was doing was unsafe.

He shouted some three word phrase back back at me I didn't understand. I said "what?" He came back looking so very full of himself with what was, evidently a translation to English: "Kiss my ass!" (I yelled something I should not have - It's insulting to the label I shouted at him.

While I was riding up the hill, I realized that we had almost collided at Thackery because it had not occurred to me that someone going 15 mph with a wide clear path to the bus lane, would zip inches past pedestrians (and redlight scuff-law biker) to get on a crowded sidewalk. But I was in the wrong there. I was making a assumption that obviously wasn't accurate - and I was violating rules of the road at the same time I must be more cautious when breaking the law.

I'm gonna risk being offensive to innocent algae everywhere. here: that guy was pond scum. (If you the reader are, yourself, pond scum, please accept my sincere apology). Probably pond scum from some waste pool next to a chemical plant.

That language that he was so! very! proud! that he spoke and I didn't was, evidently , pond scumsian.

Now, the scum was middle aged white dude and had a good commuter bike so there is a chance that he will read this and recgonize himself.

If so, I have a favor to ask:

Yo! Pond Scum! Get OFF the bike! You can only hurt yourself on it, as well as innocent walkers. PLEASE do the biking community a favor and drive an SUV- people expect that kind of behavior from SUVs on the road. It isn't good. But we expect it.

If anyone asks, just tell them the truth: you aren't smart enough to safely ride a bike.

Note on sidewlk riding: If there are too many drunks, say at midnight on a Saturday, I won't let a car pass me on the street. Since I live i Oakland, that means plenty of times the streets have too much drunken bustle for me, AND there are plenty of folks on the sidewalk. (Drunk folks. I'm totally cool with drunk folks on the sidewalk, though. They belong there.) When that happens, I walk my bike home.

"...at the same time I must be more cautious when breaking the law." Enjoyed that.

@Steven I go by http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/business-district-transportation/

According to 49 CFR 390.5 [Title 49 – Transportation; Subtitle B -- Other Regulations Relating to Transportation; Chapter III -- Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, Department of Transportation; Subchapter B -- Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations; Part 390 -- Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations; General; Subpart A -- General Applicability and Definitions], business district means “the territory contiguous to and including a highway when within any 600 feet along such highway there are buildings in use for business or industrial purposes, including but not limited to hotels, banks, or office buildings which occupy at least 300 feet of frontage on one side or 300 feet collectively on both sides of the highway.”

But I don't know if it uniformly applicable everywhere.

By this rule, IMHO, it's definitely business district. 600 + 600 = 1,200 feet so businesses (big ones) could very almost 1/4 miles away and cover everything.

Mikhail: The relevant definition is found in the PA Vehicle Code at 75 Pa Cons Stat 102, though it looks to be the same:

"Business district." The territory contiguous to and including a highway when within any 600 feet along the highway there are buildings in use for business or industrial purposes, including but not limited to hotels, banks, or office buildings, railroad stations and public buildings which occupy at least 300 feet of frontage on one side or 300 feet collectively on both sides of the highway.

I don't have a good sense of specific quantities of distance (what can I say, I'm from the midwest, I measure distance in time...), but I'm pretty sure there aren't business or industrial buildings anywhere within six hundred feet of Fifth and Neville, other than the one grocery I mentioned.

@bb https://maps.google.com/maps?q=East+Pittsburgh,+Allegheny+County,+Pennsylvania&hl=en&ll=40.446918,-79.947687&spn=0.00318,0.006475&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=6.446002,13.260498&hnear=East+Pittsburgh,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&t=m&z=18

At the bottom of screen is a scale. 100 feet. Along 5th from Dirthridge up to Devonshire (and each block approximately 200-250 feet long):

SEI,

RAND,

PNC Bank,

Residence,

Grocery,

WQED Multimedia.

A little bit tot the North:

Pitt,

Vascular Access Center,

I don't know how to count churches.