BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Can anyone tell me if there are any laws against actually riding on the sidewalk? I do go on it sometimes when there areas of the road that I am not comfortable riding on. I take my time and watch for people walking if I have to do it. There has been a few times people have said stuff but the way I look at it is id rather piss them off then get hurt.

riding on the sidewalk is verboten in "business districts" or main streets, unless otherwise posted. Dunno about the surrounding communities, but pittsburgh has one:

§ 419.11 PROHIBITING SKATEBOARDS, ROLLER SKATES, SKOOTERS AND BICYCLES ON SIDEWALKS IN BUSINESS DISTRICTS.

(a) Limitations. No person shall be permitted to ride a skateboard, roller skates, skooter or bicycle on the sidewalks of any business district within the city.

(b) Violation and penalty. Any person violating any provision of this section shall be fined twenty-five dollars ($25.00) plus costs.

(Ord. 20-1988, eff. 10-28-88)

Still ill take my chances if I have to go on the Sidewalk. There is a few spots downtown where they are working in the street and there only one open lane now. And everyone knows how these nuts in the cars are when its time to go home from work.

I think it's poor style, and a bit dangerous, to hop between the sidewalk and the road. It makes you far less predictable. Drivers, or even other cyclists (I've had cyclists hop off the sidewalk in front of me), can't get a bead on what you're going to do. Act like road traffic or act like a pedestrian--straddling that fence is bad for everyone.

Here's one set of links to various studies regarding the relative risk of riding on sidewalks. There's lots more, if one cares to fire up their search engine of choice.

Short version? I've never seen any data indicating that sidewalk riding is safer; there appears to be quite a bit to the contrary, however.

I believe it is also illegal to ride on a sidewalk if there is a bike lane available.

The only time I seem to wind up on the sidewalk is momentarily when transitioning between the Eliza Furnace trail and the roads at the smithfield st bridge. It often turns out that the people that tell you to use the sidewalk while they are in a car are the same people that tell you to get off the sidewalk when they are pedestrians.

I don't remember the exact quote, but its something like:

Don't argue with an idiot. They will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.

But if you absolutely must ride on the sidewalk, do it on the right side -- never against traffic. Riding off the sidewalk into an intersection in front of an automobile, to the driver's right, is a surefire way to get creamed. Drivers making right turns almost never look to the right before they do it.

If I have to go on the sidewalk in certain areas I defiantly take my time and let people walking go first. As far as bike lanes are there some of those downtown? I havent seen them unless they are the right lane where all the cars park against the curb. If that is the case then what is the use of having them if we cant use them.

Willie, if there were bike lanes downtown I can't imagine how they could be anything but deathtraps. Downtown has such low traffic speeds and low numbers of vehicles that you can easily use the roads. If you want some tips for riding in downtown traffic, pm me and I'll meet you sometime. Not this evening, though, I'll miss my anger-management class. j/k!

The Eliza Furnace Trail cheezes me off. Do you realize that the only legal way to reach the trail's downtown end without dismounting requires you to ride out 2d Avenue and through the Mon Wharf parking lot? Otherwise, you must choose to break a traffic law (riding on a sidewalk, or going against a Do Not Enter sign) or you must off your bike to lift it up a curb or walk it along the sidewalk. Now, I'm not crazy about all the laws, and a little civil disobediance never hurt anyone, but it just amazes me that the people who make and enforce the laws could care so little about them.

I think I know why this happens, but I think it would offend people to say.

Bike Lanes are not deathtraps. Bike lanes constantly make people aware that cyclists are allowed to be on the road and make it so that people much more likely to ride a bike. There are a handful of cases where people have been seriously injured or killed in bike lanes, but there tons of instances where people are seriously injured or killed just riding in the road. Portland has hundreds of miles of bike lanes all over the city and there have only been two deaths in 5+ years. I don't even think it had anything to do with the bike lanes a truck ran someone over in one case.

A few weeks ago i saw a Pgh. bike cop riding past CLP Oakland on the left hand sidewalk while texting. Yikes!

Don't you know Police officers are exempt?*

*I have great respect for anyone that wants to be a law enforcement officer and realize that there are incredible officers out there. I am just frustrated when I see some bad apples not setting an example and behaving in a safe and legal manner, be it in a car, bike or anywhere.

Scott, if you mean to say "*Properly designed* bike lanes are not death traps." then we might agree. Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination to see how to wedge properly-designed bike lanes onto the downtown streets, or the triumph of my cynicism/realism that predicts that we would wind up with narrow, door-zone bike lanes like NYC, and a mandatory-sidepath law like Philadelphia.

Deaths caused by bike lanes? Mind you, I'm not a professional bike advocate so I can't pull up all the cases that someone has been crushed by a right-turning truck, or thrown into a motor vehicle by an open door, but I know two off the top of my head: Dana Laird, killed by a door-zone bike lane in Cambridge and David Smith, killed by a door-zone bike lane in NYC. I'll be the first to admit that the plural of anecdote is not data, but it's disingenuous to claim that these don't happen.

Smithfield St between 1st Ave and Smithfield St Bridge, I understand that it's illegal to be in the bus lane. And it's also illegal (not to mention unsafe) to ride on the sidewalk on that short block.

(Nice of them not to mention unicycles in the law. That really needs a separate discussion. Nor is it much of an issue.)

Yah. Getting to Station Square is tricky. I have been known ride in the bus lane in that block, despite that it's illegal. Tuesday, a cop pulled up behind me, and I expected to get told. But, nope.

The legal way is to use Ft. Pitt Blvd westbound. You can get there from the end of Grant St (easy), or by following Cherry Way (cobbles!) -- that's the street that goes through the Kaufman's and Oxford Center tunnels.

you can also take wood st down to the boa, and then cross over to smithfield, as it is legal to ride/drive south from the boa on.

So in other words, you're saying that Stu and I are both mistaken about the legality of riding in the bus lane between 1st Ave and the bridge? Awesome!

I was looking at the maps again today and think on monday im going to try hopping off the trail at the parking deck and taking ross st up to forbes. That would cut out the Smithfield problem altogether.

I had similar issues with the bridge before, check this thread for help.

Lyle, all I'm saying is there are few cases, if any, that I or anyone else I know is aware of where the bike lane "caused" the crash that killed someone. I would argue that there have been many many more crashes resulting in fatalities on streets w/o bike lanes. Instead of blaming a bike lane we should be blaming motorists who go too fast or don't pay attention and open doors into the path of cyclists.

Furthermore, look what bike lanes have done in Portland... encouraged upwards of 5-10% of the public to ride their bikes as everyday transportation.

i ride on any sidewalk if it's the safest alternative and i'm prepared to tell a judge that i have no idea where business districts start and stop.

i get shit from this one lady university cop down on forbes right by where i work occasionally because there's really no sensible way to get where i'm going on the street: climb the hill to fifth and then backtrack down halket to get to my office when i can see it from the CVS? no thanks. patently ignoring her seems to work fine so far. if anybody ever got busted for this sort of thing i'm sure that if you contested it and told the judge that you read in the PA laws that riding a bike on the sidewalk was legal in certain places, you'd be fine. the judge who handles these sorts of things (at least the guy i've seen) is a very sensible and fair person.

i get shit from this one lady university cop down on forbes right by where i work occasionally because there's really no sensible way to get where i'm going on the street: climb the hill to fifth and then backtrack down halket to get to my office when i can see it from the CVS? no thanks

There's always dismounting and walking a block or so. That's my usual solution to nasty one-ways.

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from, but if you're starting at the CVS, what's wrong with just riding down the street (Colbert?) a bit, right into the alley, right again on Halket, and then a right on Forbes to your office. You might want that cop on your good side sometime.

How Much Do Bicyclists Really Slow Down Drivers? Not much.

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/07/20/how-much-do-bicyclists-really-slow-down-drivers/

I read a statistic once (which was probably made up, like the other 90% of statistics) that the average speed of an automobile while its engine is running (that is, excluding the times it is parked and turned off) is 17 mph. Might be even lower now.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty sure my bike increases the speed cars are going. I always hear engines roaring as cars race to pass me. "Can't let the bike to get to that red light before me!" My favorite is going around the corner coming from Greenfield Road to Greenfield Bridge. I just came off a huge hill, so I'm cruising pretty good, yet the cars still want to pass me going around that corner, squealing tires and all.

My old mini van had an average speed read out for the life of the vehicle. At 90,000 it is under 20 mph, I think around 18. Pretty sad really.

people invested a lot of money, they cant be beaten by someone on a toy

I love the guys like dwillen described, especially when you end up on their bumper over and over at every stop sign and red light. I'm usually tempted to yell "get the hell out of my way" considering how much slower most cars initially accelerate than bikes.

I recently had a guy pass me too close around Forbes and Murray, I tailed him down to Wilkins and Negley where he made a big show of stepping on it to finally outrun me up Negley. sigh.

dwillen, I know that corner. I haven't had anybody try to pass me on the corner itself, but I'm not at all surprised by it. In order to prevent them passing me, I probably take that corner too fast for safety. I'm always afraid that someone is going to turn left in front of me, or pull out in front of me from the right.

The one I love is when someone decides they absolutely have to pass me between St. Rosalias and the car wash. Or at the very (blind) top of the hill way back before that curve you mentioned, before the swimming pool. (and don't you just hate the stop sign at the bottom!)

today i was honked at for the entirety of a stoplight for stopping in the middle of the lane so the car behind me couldn't move up those 6 feet... this was at forbes and murray, lots of pedestrians were kind of in shock... some were laughing because the person started to scream out the window insanely... it was pretty awesome

Its funny some people started talking about drivers getting upset because they get stuck behind a bike. I ride down sycamore to arlington every morning on my way to work. Now the speed limit on sycamore is 25 and 15 in the bends. I ussually end up going about 20 down the whole hill. But thats not good enough for some people. I had a lady that just had to pass me on the last sharp right hand turn the other morning in a jeep. Her tires where screeching the whole time. And the funny part is that I kept riding at the same speed and she couldent make it around me so I still beat her to the stop sign. She was not a happy camper

Five minutes ago on Perry Highway, four lanes wide, very light traffic, this huge silver Chevy truck (PA plate WR4185A, WR as in Wildlife Resources), pulls up behind me, lays on the special high-intensity air horn, and tails me for 200 feet. Huuuge amount of space to get around me, I'm less than 24 inches off the right curb, nobody in the left lane. As he finally pulls around me to pass, someone in the truck yells "Get the fuck off the road, idiot!" and they go charging off in a cloud of hydrocarbons. Funny I don't get more of that, but there's one for the record.

As he finally pulls around me to pass, someone in the truck yells "Get the fuck off the road, idiot!" and they go charging off in a cloud of hydrocarbons. Funny I don't get more of that, but there's one for the record.

that happened to me last year in the buffalo area. since i know you're rather familiar with those parts, i'll say where it was! i was heading down broadway in lancaster/depew from transit to dick road. it's four lanes the whole way, i think the speed limit is 40. i was doing 20-25, and i took the whole right lane. a car got behind me and--horror of horrors!--had to wait for another car to pass it before it could pass me. as it overtook me, the woman in the passenger seat leaned out the window, flipped the bird, and screamed as hard as she could, "you fucking asshole!" the mind boggles. i just did the tip-o'-the-cap salute and continued on my way.

I think I've pointed this out before, but behavior like Willie describes is hardly limited to cyclists. I have been passed on two lane residential streets IN MY VAN by other cars, drivers screaming obscenities as they go by.

Further proof it's not limited to us--I saw a driver right hook a PAT bus at the corner of Negley and Friendship. The bus was picking up passengers, and this car just couldn't wait and went into the other lane and turned in front of the now-moving bus.

I agree with Brian, I've been passed all over the city while driving at least the speed limit. Butler Street, Liberty, Melwood(!). Crazy behavior.

yeah, and i saw a car heading east on fifth at neville go around a car that was stopping to run a red light. i love seeing that.

i guess what makes cyclists as a group slightly different--well, there are a lot of things, but here's one--we choose a mode of transportation that we know will often take more time to deliver us to our destination. therefore, we are often by default not in a hurry. and patience always makes for a more pleasant traveling experience.

i guess what makes cyclists as a group slightly different--well, there are a lot of things, but here's one--we choose a mode of transportation that we know will often take more time to deliver us to our destination. therefore, we are often by default not in a hurry. and patience always makes for a more pleasant traveling experience.

Yes! And I've noticed this has rubbed off on my driver habits, too.

Yes! And I've noticed this has rubbed off on my driver habits, too.

Oh gees, me too. I hardly drive, and when I do I never make it out of 3rd gear. I never use my brakes. I coast to red lights and stop signs.

Other cars honk at me!?

I once got not one, but two middle fingers by a pick-up that scurried by me on the parkway east.

Heh, try driving the speed limit between braddock and south dallas on forbes.

"try driving the speed limit"

Seriously, you should. If you believe in traffic calming, if you want the city to build bulbouts and use lots of colored paint to try to get people to slow down, then try just slowing down yourself. Peer pressure works.

Though I have to admit, it's not helping me convince my friends to stop blowing through stop signs in their cars.

That was my point. I drive the speed limit there and people fly by me.

WWBBD?

Grotesquely large fender flares and cow-catchers extending a few feet beyond the fenders.

Or, everyone start driving flatheads with three on the tree. 0-60 in 4.5 minutes...

Wonder if we could get a ticket for impeding traffic by driving the speed limit, two abreast.

There was a PA law that only allowed you to occupy the left lane for up to two miles, in order to pass or make a left turn. This was new when I was 16 (~2000), but I don't see it in the driver's manual now.

Personally, even though I'm a twenty-is-plenty guy, I can't stand left-lane pacers. You're just agitating people who are already dealing with something up their ass. Let them speed by and get to the po-po that much faster.

> There was a PA law that only allowed you to

> occupy the left lane for up to two miles, in

> order to pass

As I recall, this only applied to the Turnpike.