BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Ninth and Liberty? Isn't that where Ninth Ts at the entrance to the parking garage? There is a stoplight there, but the cyclist would have to be coming into or out of the parking garage (at a very busy point in the evening commute....) or making a turn from Ninth inbound onto Liberty maybe. Sure hope the cyclist is all right.

Yeah, this (assuming the location report is accurate) is the intersection where 9th runs into the Liberty/Smithfield garage. The 88 (assuming the route designation report is accurate) runs in on Penn to 7th, then back out on Liberty, so barring detours the bus would be running outbound, ordinarily in the lane nearest the garage entrance. Since that route doesn't stop at "Liberty OPP 9th", it could potentially be in the left outbound lane passing a vehicle that had stopped (or navigating backups at the garage--there's a game in town tonight, as well as whatever else might be going on). If location report is inaccurate, this could've been at Seventh Ave, where a cyclist crossing from IB 7th to IB Liberty would have to cross the path of an OB 88. If the route number is inaccurate, it could be an 87, which runs inbound on Liberty, or any of about a dozen other buses. ((And, of course, at least as likely as the red-running cyclist there's the possibility that the bus driver jumped the green, which I've seen many many many times, especially in Downtown. If one's trying to squeak through an orange and another's jumping the green...)) And at this point I remind myself that I'm terrible at chess, and there's way too many variables here, especially while we don't have the rider's side of the story.

*edit* Cyclist's name is Dustin and I'm told he is alright. I'm also told that he wasn't wearing a helmet and is lucky. He apparently ran the red light perpendicular to the bus (88) and was hit. This is coming from a friend and fellow cyclist who was a passenger on the bus and assisted until medical personal arrived.

as a bus driver myself this would be my worst nightmare ive got 3 years and 3 months till im 62 so far ive never hurt anyone i dont know how id handle it if this happened to me

I'm sure all the cyclist complainers will use this as an example of all of us scofflaw cyclists

@headloss sent me the photo referenced in a previous post--near as i can tell, details as reported by WPXI are accurate: bus is an 88 Penn, location is Liberty Ave just past 9th, opposite Sammy's Famous.

I hope the cyclist is OK, but talk about making yourself a poster boy for haters! Please obey the traffic laws when cycling (and driving).

As expected, our concern troll from a couple weeks ago has posted about it.

Thanks to a biker on pittsburgh city streets refusing to follow driving rules by stoping at a red light the biker was hit by by a port authority bus at penn and 9th street. Bikers if you can't follow rules stay off bikes.

I bike through there daily...presuming the facts of the story are true running the light at that time of day (or any time really) is absolutely nuts. Good thing this guy didn't really hurt himself.

Ah, yes, Mr. Love. Very helpful, said no one ever.

Does Mr. Love also believe drivers who can't follow the rules should stay out of cars? Because that would save lives and solve city traffic problems overnight!

^Ha! My thoughts exactly.

Speaking of busses, I had the 75 pass me within 6 inches on Ellsworth yesterday. The driver didn't move to the left at all. I am hating that street more and more. I got a photo of the bus at the next light with the bus #. Who do I contact?

joanne wrote:Does Mr. Love also believe drivers who can’t follow the rules should stay out of cars? Because that would save lives and solve city traffic problems overnight!

This +1000. I don't understand his logic. It's so...illogical.

Truism (noun): A statement that is obviously true and says nothing new or interesting. Bikers if you can’t follow rules stay off bikes. Drivers if you can’t follow rules stay out of cars. Truisms tend to make for snappy retorts, easy bumper stickers and clever facebook memes. They are the low hung fruit of discourse, easily reached, tasty, but unfulfilling. They are the last bastion of those who have no sound position to take in the argument, other than irrational opposition. (Please forgive this somewhat OT rant...)

Stef, call 44 22 000 or look for complaint form at portauthority.org. I've found referencing the specific statute as well as saying "this is illegal and dangerous" receives at least the appearance of being taken seriously...

I'm glad the cyclist wasn't seriously hurt, but there's no denying that this is just the kind of situation that makes us all look bad. Taking the news report at face value, it does sound like the cyclist was being negligent at best and reckless at worst. I'd still like to know more: how old is he? how long has he been riding? what type of bike was he on? and where was he going that he felt the need to blow through a light at a busy intersection during rush hour?

@stef, I would call 911 and ask to be transferred to PAT police. You don't have a "complaint", you could have been injured or killed. Treat it with the seriousness it deserves. I did this back in April and after explaining the seriousness of the situation the officer agreed.

Actually the idea that if a driver doesn't follow the speed laws or won't stop at stop signs, then he shouldn't drive is is a staement that might make a lot of drivers think. One of my many hesitancies about driving that it is the most likely way that I could actually kill a fellow human. It's the most likely for me by an extremely wide margin. Even with the little driving I do. Everything else I do (legal or not) put together is only a tiny fraction of the danger to others of me driving.

Pierce wrote:I’m sure all the cyclist complainers will use this as an example of all of us scofflaw cyclists

I must say that I could be one of the "cyclist complainers" in this case, even though I'm a cyclist..... and I agree with JaySherman5000, there’s no denying that this is just the kind of situation that makes us all look bad.... I ride downtown almost everyday, and 80% of people I see cycling run red lights, not signaling, etc..... I always nod and stay behind until the light goes green or try to follow road-protocol as much as possible. Everyone knows that -yes- drivers run red lights sometimes, don't stop at stop signs, etc..... it sucks and damn those people. However, I still don't think that gives cyclists the right to go and do those things too.... Ugh..... hope the cyclist is fine, and also his bike. Ride safe out there!

I'm kind of in-between on the cyclist scofflaw issue. There are cyclists I see doing stuff I never would do, like run stop lights, but I do stuff (like not stop foot down at stop signs) that is technically illegal and bothers motorists (even though they do equivalent behavior). So I can't quite bring myself to say cyclists who break the law more than I do are scofflaws, while cyclists who break it as much as I do or less are law-abiding. Almost every cyclist breaks the law, frankly, as does almost every motorist. But when cyclists do something foolish they take a chance with their own lives (primarily; not exclusively). And most of us gradually learn how to look out for our own safety and develop a code of conduct which, while not completely law-abiding, works to protects us and respects other road users, especially pedestrians. We adapt our behavior to fit the infrastructure and legal framework which are gradually improving, but still far from being designed with cyclists in mind.

Even the Idaho statute requires that you stop at a red light, and proceed only when it is safe to do so. I'm not bringing up Idaho in front of any concern trolls until this dies down. Not naming names, of course. But whoever this guy is, no, there's no excuse for what he did. Not there, not then, not in that way. I don't even cross on foot against the light there.

As I've gotten more comfortable I've become substantially more opportunistic and less law abiding. I think I'm now mid-pack, not close to the worst out there, but not close to the most safe and law abiding either. I'm quite sure I've started annoying more people and I'm also sure I've also increased my risk exposure some. And that's the line between the ok civil disobedience type law breaking and what's just not ok, IMHO. The "it's clear now, I'll go" type biking vs. the "eh, good enough". Impatience is a human failing I have in spades. When I hear something like this, I shake my head sure, but generally don't outright condemn the cyclist... it would be hypocritical for me to do so. I mainly take it as a warning to myself. Cool it or you're next. Like Mick, I try not to drive much because it's the most likely way by far I might cause a death and because again. I'm impatient and I know that in my worst moments could really have caused something catastrophic. Even if I weren't it would still be the only conceivable way I for me to end a life. With that in mind, for those that complain about reckless scofflaws on bicycles and try and make the case against cycling on that basis I ask: would society be better off if rushed people exhibiting poor judgement were required to get around with two tons of steel and hundreds of horsepower? Yeah, NO.

My personal rule is that if I don't see cars or pedestrians around or at the intersection; I will slow down, look both ways, and then proceed. If there are cars or people, I follow the rules, stop at red lights, etc. Also, if a car follows the rules, stops for me, gives me space, I always try and wave at them friendly or give them a thumbs-up.....

One of my favorite moments was coming through downtown a few months ago around 5:15am, there was a guy letting his dog do its business in the middle of Wood St. When I pulled up to the intersection the light was red, so I looked both ways and there was no one, so I went through. As I was passing through he said "light's red, a-hole", while his dog was going in the middle of the street. Nice.

bikeygirl wrote:Also, if a car follows the rules, stops for me, gives me space, I always try and wave at them friendly or give them a thumbs-up…..

I've now taken to thanking drivers verbally for safe passes. It happens often on my commute home, someone will pass me safely and carefully, and I roll up next to them at the next intersection and thank them. It has led to some nice 30 second conversations, and I have yet to encounter anyone who didn't appreciate it.

I'm glad the cyclist was alright - but it should be said, fellow cyclists, please follow the laws! Motorists see us as a single group and when a few folks get them angry by not following the laws, they take that out on those of us who do. Today I was biking on the street and a Port Authority driver told me I wasn't allowed to be on the street; I had to get off. He was driving an unmarked minivan (but wearing a PAT uniform polo); looked like he was training somebody new on a route. I was in the street (where I was allowed to be) to be better able to tell the drivers stopped in traffic that there was an accident ahead (Cadillac with front end partially wrapped around a utility pole)...all the drivers except that one appreciated it. It would be good for the bus drivers to know what the laws are for where bikes can and can't be....though there does not seem to be a question the biker here was where he should not have been.