Thought this needs some discussion and that everyone should know (some of ) what we do. Also, i think it's important for people to understand how things work here, the challenges we face, and how, at least currently, it's very different than most other cities.
http://bike-pgh.org/blog/2010/10/04/how-bike-lanes-and-sharrows-are-born-in-pittsburgh/
Shameless plug: if you're not a member,
please become one to support bike lanes, advocacy, etc.
Private contractors for thermoplastics...
So does that mean that our DPW does NOT have an armoury of flamethrowers like in that Portland video? If so I'd like to know where our tax money is going that's more important than flamethrowers.
A question that I couldn't find the answer to in that article: where are the new lanes and sharrows going??
Sorry if I'm really late to the party and the answer is old news.
If so I'd like to know where our tax money is going that's more important than flamethrowers.
Drones.
With cameras.
That fly over Kari Byron's house.
awesome post.... its good to know how complicated something like a bike lane is!
also, its awesome that the city has adopted the bike map as their official network!! THINGS I AM LEARNING TODAY
Very cool. Even more ammo against those who would say cyclists don't pay their share - we pay for our own engineering! We give traffic engineers jobs! Yeah!
Does anyone know how I can get a flame thrower carry permit?
So does that mean that our DPW does NOT have an armoury of flamethrowers like in that Portland video? as far as we've been told. dpw can only do painting.
roads: yeah it wasn't in the post. roads that are supposed to be done: finish the gap in Forbes in squirrel hill, re-install the beechwood lanes, hamilton, dallas, brighton(?), highland...we shall see.
also, complete ELB to Penn Ave and that new trail by the bakery square.
lol at new trail by bakery square. i am interested to see how that will "connect" to anything after it gets to fifth and penn. why not just connect to hamilton?
The trail there is awesome if you want to get to Beechwood or eventually Reynolds from Bakery Square.
@caitlin + @rsprake: I use the trail by Bakery Square pretty often. Either to make the roundabout jump from Reynolds to Ellsworth or when I'm trying to do my non-coop shopping in Shady Liberty. It stinks that the trail ends just shy of Trader Joes / Performance Bike / future Target. (though I am grateful for the partial improvement)
[edit] I see erok / bikepgh are working on the connection - YAY!
It's a pain to turn left onto Penn from the end of the Mellon Park Trail into two lanes of cars streaming off East Liberty Blvd.
I also use the weird shortcut between the Military compound & High School & wish there were not so many puddles & occasional cars blocking the path. Still, that's a very useful shortcut!
And hooray for markings on Dallas.
lol at new trail by bakery square. i am interested to see how that will "connect" to anything after it gets to fifth and penn. why not just connect to hamilton?
well, hamilton is supposed to get stuff.
the trail is nice to get over to reynolds or beechwood
Erok, thanks for the very informative post. It is really amazing to see how much progress has been made in the last several years.
Excellent information! BikePGH having your (our) own engineer seems like a very smart way to do it – yinz can argue a point with hard facts to back it up, if necessary.
Hmm, I gotta try that Bakery Sq. trail thing... had ignored it until now.
yeah, there's definitely some pluses and minuses to this arrangement.
ideally, the city should be taking this on tho, like other cities
Is Pgh. more broke than other cities, or just not up on hiring enough engineers? (Seems like every city is strapped these days)
@reddan
Drones.
With cameras.
That fly over Kari Byron's house.
Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
I thought the bike lane stork painted them.
Is Pgh. more broke than other cities, or just not up on hiring enough engineers? (Seems like every city is strapped these days)
honestly i don't know how to answer that. it's true we are more broke than most cities, one of the few under Act 47 oversight, so there is much less discretionary funds than most other cities. i think there's also values. i just got back from the ProWalk/ProBike conference, and met an advocate from Flint, MI. I asked her how many traffic engineers were on staff there. they had 3 engineers on staff - we have 1, and she's only been there for about 2 years. before that we didn't even have one.
I always thought that the reason that there are so many flaws in these bike lanes is that there isn't a "real" engineer designing them. Now that I know there is, I'm not sure what to think. That they're well designed but not painted properly? Or that BikePgh needs to have these designs reviewed before putting their stamp of approval on them... Do you just need more money to hire a BETTER engineer?
serious question, not a flame.
the engineers are great. in my opinion, the implementation isn't the best. there are some flaws in the system. for instance, "work orders," in order to conform with the city's filing system (it's not digital, they go in a filing cabinet), aren't to scale. basically, a block of street needs to be drawn out on half of an 8.5x11 sheet. now this hasn't been a problem for the most part when it's usually just a double yellow line going down the center with some turn arrows at the end. but when you add detail, like where to put dashed lines for turn lanes, how big to make a dashed line, some of that detail is lost and left to interpretation. it's not like a blueprint where the sheet of paper looks exactly as it should. so a lot is left up to the people who are installing it to make it look right. combine that with the fact that this is all new to them, and you end up with some, ahem, creative implementation. i don't want this to come off that they aren't good at what they do, they are just new to it, and there's a bit of a learning curve and a disconnect between those that design and those that install.
^^i really hope this is taken as constructive criticism
I always thought that the reason that there are so many flaws in these bike lanes is that there isn't a "real" engineer designing them also, to build on this, for something to be installed in the public right of way, it must be approved by a real engineer.
also, as the article says, not every bike lane is designed using bikepgh's money.
How much of the engineering is pre-determined based on the "Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices"? Is it just for what the paint looks like, or are there restrictions based on how wide the roads are or something? I'm just wondering if this is why most all our lanes end before intersections?
the engineers try to follow it. I believe (but i could be wrong) that the mutcd only recommends bike lanes thru intersections.
if you are referring to liberty ave, near the bridge, that area is done, but we've been waiting for a long time for it to be installed. (it's a bit more complex than that simplification)
yeah, page 807 of the mutcd doesn't show bike lanes going thru intersections. and many of the dotted lines are optional
"...so a lot is left up to the people who are installing it to make it look right. combine that with the fact that this is all new to them,..."
It occurs to me that a worthwhile future project (I'm thinking near future) would be a fun bike day specifically for city employees, get them a half day off work, have some cool Golden Triangle cruisers available, take people on an easy ride around town, have a catered lunch. East End brew sampling. People seem to show up for beer. It would be very cool to see some old grufty workmen and suits out having fun on bikes.
if you are referring to liberty ave
I don't bike Liberty very often, so I don't remember how those lanes end. I was thinking more the lanes on Greenfield Rd, Beacon, Wightman, etc. At all the intersections, a few feet before the turn lanes, there is a bit of dotted line (sometimes), then you've got cars merging into the side of you. Is there anything in the mutcd that would alleviate this? Some sort of 'bikes merge here' paint/arrows they could put on the road? An "END BIKE LANE" sign hidden behind a tree doesn't really help anyone. Seems like some of them you could get rid of one of the turn lanes and include bike infrastructure. For example, Beacon goes from a single lane to a left turn, straight through, and right turn lane at the intersection with Wightman.
thank you erok!
(notes quietly to self that sharrows do seem to be mostly just paint put in a strategic place, continues hoping for strapped PH potential)
I know that was supposed to help make people like me more patient but... yeah, it just makes me want more lanes faster. And I'm not too shocked that the entire city of Pittsburgh has historically had no (or extremely few) traffic engineers - I'd long suspected it but was wary of asking and insulting an entire department of many beleagered underpaid and ignored city workers. At least it's only a couple beleagered, underpaid, and ignored city workers.
++ on the city worker ride. I'll buy a pitcher and some munchies if it'll help.
Thanks erok, that clears things up for me a little. I thought there would be blueprints. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that even if the engineers made very explicit, perfectly detailed blueprints down to the inch, all that detail would have to get thrown away before the road crews got the assignment.
So basically, the bike lanes are guidelines from engineers to the painters, who have to improvise on the details.
And the thing that has to be designed by a "real engineer" is simply that guideline, because the actual bike lane as painted is implemented by a paint crew.
(Which suggests that guerilla bike lanes are fine as long as they roughly conform to an approved guideline -- they can't be any worse than the paint crews interpretation.)
How much flexibility do the paint crews have? Can they look at a piece of pavement and say "oh, look, there's a streetcar rail under here, let's move this sharrow out another foot"?
Can I volunteer to go tag along with the paint crews and provide my semi-professional advice on "implementation details?" Things like, don't paint a dotted line that goes straight into a curb. Some of the other dotted lines are pretty silly too.
@dwillen: The reason you have cars merging into the side of you is that the merge needs to happen sooner. I'm all for "merge" paint, as long as it's not placed too late. The complicating factor is that there isn't one optimal merge point -- it's going to vary considerably depending on the cyclist's speed, the motorists' speed, the volume of traffic on the road at that time, and the cyclist's intended direction at/after the intersection.
@Dwillen I was thinking more the lanes on Greenfield Rd, Beacon, Wightman, etc. At all the intersections, a few feet before the turn lanes, there is a bit of dotted line (sometimes), then you've got cars merging into the side of you
+1 Dwillen. The same thing happens at Forbes & Dallas and Forbes and Braddock.
On Forbes, it might be somewhat justified in terms on the level of automotive traffic, but not so for Wightman and Beacon.
The lanes are a tremendous political gain. For practical bike riding, I would rather have a bike lane at the intersections that disappears on the wide mid-block than vice versa.
But has been pointed out before, there are some high points - Forbes and Schenley Drive being one.
Based on my experience with "Share the Road", I can't even begin to imagine how "End Bike Lane" would be misinterpreted.
Perhaps someone needs to retain a professional semiotician.
even if the engineers made very explicit, perfectly detailed blueprints down to the inch, all that detail would have to get thrown away before the road crews got the assignment
from what i can tell, this is true...to a point. i believe there is a chance that detailed blueprints could be submitted, at least for the first install. once these work orders make it to the filing cabinets, though, i don't know the answer to that.
Can I volunteer to go tag along with the paint crews and provide my semi-professional advice on "implementation details?"
the problem with this is that one would need to know when they are going to install, part of that disconnect that i alluded to earlier
(Which suggests that guerilla bike lanes are fine as long as they roughly conform to an approved guideline -- they can't be any worse than the paint crews interpretation.)
the difference is that there is a signature from an engineer that goes along with one. at that point it's the responsibility of the city to make sure implementation is correct. ELB is an example where they've gone back and corrected mistakes.
The reason you have cars merging into the side of you is that the merge needs to happen sooner.
We've had this discussion before. The reason I have cars merging into me is because the cars are speeding (and speeding up) and illegally passing me. No matter what you do, you still get screwed when an extended cab pickup pulling a 15 foot trailer or a PAT bus passes you when you are at the "optimal merging point". Somedays it doesn't make a difference how long I stand there (or bike up the hill) holding my arm out, nobody is going to slow down for me as I move over. I've had people cross the double yellow to pass me on the left, right before right hooking me to get over to the right turn lane. Clearly better than waiting half a second for me to move over so they can go to my right. Maybe I should skip the bike lane and just bike up the hill hugging the double yellow, as to be in the correct place when I arrive at the intersection?
I doubt arrows on the road are going to save me, but at least it might get a few vehicle drivers to recognize that hey, that bike is probably trying to move over right here in this general area.
erok - it seems a little like you're herding cats on this thread. perhaps a nice problem to have, all these cyclists pestering you for information about an established connection with the municipal planners and implementers of bike friendly road evolution that is underway and an itnegral part of future planning.
I still feel like a bit of a jerk for some of my publically posted "its just paint" tantrums... but I can't promise not to have more. I can promise to try 
Maybe I should skip the bike lane and just bike up the hill hugging the double yellow, as to be in the correct place when I arrive at the intersection?
If that's what it takes. I assume you're just talking about Greenfield Rd here, since the Beacon and Wightman lanes aren't near any appreciable hills.
Sriously, I don't recommend hugging the yellow, because you'll get people left-hooking you, but being more assertive about your space generally works.
It can be tough to merge out of the bike lane on Greenfield Rd, but the hardest part is the first six inches. Eye contact helps. Assertiveness helps.
It's not on my usual routes, but I often run into a similar situation on Beechwood by the Community Day School, where I need to turn left but the bike lane runs right up to the stop sign. Also on Shady Ave approaching 5th, where I usually turn left. Greenfield Rd is harder because there is a lot of right-on-red traffic which doesn't happen so much at either of those two intersections of mine. And the r-o-r traffic doesn't come to a full stop, but just rolls through.
There are two clear problems on Greenfield Rd: speeding, and failure to stop at red lights. So how should we solve that?
I think Pittsburgh already has an issue with overuse of static road signs, which leads to noncompliance. The "END BIKE LANE" sign at this particular place on Greenfield Rd is hidden behind a big tree. You don't see it until you are right next to it (especially when you're cruising along at 40 mph -- in the 25 zone). Even if it was on the other side of the tree, I'm not sure motorists would know that END BIKE LANE means that bikes should merge into their lane. If the paint on the road is any indication, bikes should simply dive into the grassy hill upon approaching the intersection. That could be most easily addressed with a few arrows or some notice on the road that bikes are merging. If (back to my original question) the mutcd had some guideline for this. Sounds like it doesn't though.
Adding push buttons and crossing lights for a 4-way pedestrian cycle would be welcome, considering this stop light is smack in the middle of a city park. Not sure how likely that is to happen, considering the cost. It would be a benefit to the pedestrians here, who are forced to run across the crosswalk (that connects multiple park trails and recreation areas) to dodge all the turning motorists, and it might provide an alternative when a cyclist is unable to merge before hitting that right turn lane.
If only speeding and failing to stop at red lights came with fines or something, it may deter people from doing those things.
+1 on edmonds59's idea about a bike ride for city workers (+ their kids, for those who have 'em!)
perhaps a nice problem to have, all these cyclists pestering you for information about an established connection
don't worry. i started this thread because i wanted there to be discussion on it, as well as let people know what's going on and the challenges that we have and are trying to overcome, and hopefully fix.
re: bakery square trail--i didnt realize it went down to where beechwood/reynolds, etc are? Sorry. I thought it was just that portion across from the center. I used to ride that area twice a day! So, in my corrected stance here, glad to hear that the trail isn't a dead end as I had originally perceived. Clearly I now live on the other side of it and don't go that way to get places as often!
What seems to be missing here is the concept of a "best practices document". The experts from city, bike community, engineer, and contractors, all get together to craft a general "Here's How It's Done When It's Done Well" statement, that everyone agrees to. Maybe somebody's done this already. I'd be surprised if it hasn't, somewhere.
Unrelated but it bears repeating, I am no fan of "Share The Road" signs. I am a fan of signs that say "Bicycles May ALWAYS Use Full Lane".
And though it isn't on anyone's list, the first place I'd put that sign is at the bottom of Crane, by Banksville. Gawd I hope I never have to climb that one.
"Here's How It's Done When It's Done Well"
City planning is in the midst of their PlanPGH thing, and they are apparently drafting such a document.
^The City, in the next two years (as part of MovePGH) will be coming out with a Street Design Manual like the one NYC came out with last year.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/about/streetdesignmanual.shtml
In our opinion here is what needs to happen:
1. More money needs to go into the City's bicycle and pedestrian program for engineering, enforcement, encouragement (events) and education overall.
2. Part of this money needs to be allocated for A. more help with engineering (man-power) and B. Updated equipment and training at the implementation level.
3. Best practices need to be adhered to which is where the Street Design Manual and training comes in, but also better materials need to be used so that the infrastructure put in lasts for years without fading.
