BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

any pics?

I didn't have my camera yesterday or else I would have taken a picture when I was there shopping. Maybe I'll swing by today on my way home. I did an Internet search looking for something similar but my Google-fu was not worthy.

Someday. . . .

It's something similar to this, if my memory isn't too far off from seeing it yesterday.

i knew this was happening, i'm curious how it works contextually.

Is this the rack?

Yes. Exactly, but with twice as many mounts and all "silver" instead of black. And I didn't notice people hooking the wheel on the little hook on the top. They seemed to put the wheel over the top.

I saw the rack today, I applaud their efforts but I am not sold this is the Best design for a grocery store. You have to take you bike down then place groceries on it, I prefer to leave my bike lock while I place my gracedy bags on my rack, provides stability. But I am sure I like it more once I figure it out.

http://db.tt/IxOjdu86

So what's the advantage to this? Doesn't look like it saves any space vs. the same rack, rotated 90 degrees so the wheels can be on the ground.

Doesn't look that convenient for people who have 50 lb bikes either.

Or those who have krab0nfibre rims/rim fairings.

But hey, at least those with open bath front forks will have their seals oiled.

Would rather see a bike corral but its better than nothing?

On second though, Im actually not sure thats better than nothing. Its ugly as sin and serves little purpose in terms of practical bicycle storage for users.

for long term storage its not bad. for its current use? blech.

I do think it fits more bikes in the less space vs a conventional rack.

We have these racks in my office and I use them every day.

I guess it's useful to have something out of the ordinary out for public consumption. But it does look like a PITA to use if you have a heavy bike, or one with a loaded milk crate.

Ugh! Why don't companies consult with people before buying this stuff!

Whole Foods has those useless green ankle high racks, Giant Eagle has the staggered triangle racks parallel to the wall, and now this!

Like this thing is clearly intended to be used against a wall, as noticed by the chain rings sitting up against that middle bar

I'm one of the 50lb bike people and I'm not going to go through the effort to hoist it up in the air over my head and line up that little prong the rims are sitting on

I'm also wondering how stable these are, I.E. if somebody bumps into your bike, will it be knocked off?

As for the space savings, what exactly are they going to do with the extra three feet that are only going to be available in between people hoisting their bikes up and down and filling their panniers?

Perhaps they're more designed with the messenger bag crowd in mind. They'd have light bikes and no panniers or racks to worry about

i would say go try it instead of sitting around complaining based on a picture.

it is supposed to be against the wall although there is padding on the bar so your chain ring isn't up against metal.

my bikes are heavy as hell and it's really not much of an effort to "hoist" it up there... although as i discovered today the huge front rack on my new bike kind of interferes with things - it still works, my bike just hangs a little crooked.

your bike isn't going to fall off because of someone bumping it.

loaded milk crate would be a problem.

i've used these style racks before. like i said, i think these racks are great for shortish long term storage (all day bike parking for example) but they aren't exactly conducive to loading and unloading racks, panniers, crates, etc.

also i hate hanging bikes by the front wheel. great way to needlessly stress your headset.

Though it might not be a great solution, I think it shows that TJ is recognizing that they get a lot of bike traffic and are trying to accommodate it.

As for not consulting someone, who says they didn't? They very well could have consulted someone who believed this was the best solution given budget and space.

@Colin, I did fail physics a few times, but I am almost positive that hanging a bike by it's wheel does not put anymore stress on a headset than riding it.

its all side load instead of the vertical load its designed to take. even if its more or less equivalent to the stress of riding, you aren't riding, it's just sitting there doing nothing. why stress the headset when there are so many other ways to store a bike. say, by hanging it by the rear wheel instead?

I gotta go with Nick on this one. Those bearings certainly take a whole lot of load in that plane when you're braking hard - and probably other things like pulling the bars when climbing. I don't think supporting its own weight is likely to matter. Even if it were sitting on its wheels it would be supporting half the weight of the bike - some of it in the same direction depending on your head tube angle, etc.

Hanging a bike upside down on one of those racks seems like it would be more difficult given the handlebars are on the wrong end, although I'll admit I've never tried it... now I have a project for tomorrow

I have a bike that is heavy with racks, loaded panniers, and generally crap, but that rack looks just fine to me: there are three uprights to lock to. That's at least one more space than a typical toaster rack and maybe 4, with two bikes for each upright.

I figured I would read a bunch of negative posts. I guess I am a cyclist that... well doesn't fit the negative mold that seems to be so prevalent amongst cyclist in this region. Anyway, I used the rack and it is very simple. If you have a 70 lb bike, then use the other on the ground racks that are provided.

Let me try and explain the rack to the negative Nancy's. If you look at the picture Nick D posted there is a red bike hanging there. That bike is on a high hook. Next to that high hook is a low hook. If you have a heavy bike, use the low hook. Obviously the intelligent guy that has that beautiful red bike used the high hook because his bike is light and he is considerate of others. Of course we live in Pittsburgh and something new would be... well very scary and unwelcome. Goodness, I have nothing in common with people on this forum, but I am desperately trying to educate... well the "yinzer cyclist"? Anyway, I am happy to see such a cool bike rack that is so easy to use and protective of high end bicycles that I ride. Yes, it is easy to throw you bike up on that rack. WOW, I am not sure why I bother, but I will go on for a bit longer. Good luck to the negative folks. I really do feel for you.

Well, this thread has inspired me to add a trip to TJ's to my list of crap I should do tomorrow. I'll be sure to bring a camera to get pics of my Schwinn Speedster hanging from the new rack. I'll provide as many deets as possible about the user experience.

@hcurtis, "I am happy to see such a cool bike rack that is so easy to use and protective of high end bicycles that I ride"

LOL, troll much?

@hcuyrtis I am desperately trying to educate... well the "yinzer cyclist"?

It's so nice of you to come here to educate us. I took the short bus to graduate school and I need all the education I can get. I know my friends here do, too.

Maybe we can get a special award for you at bike fest.

@ hcurtis then why do you keep posting here? If you are so superior to us why not go away. But you keep crawling back to us don't you.

Goodness, you guys need to lighten up a bit. Relax, just having a bit of fun. I do think cyclists should be happy about anything we get. Been cycling in Pittsburgh for longer than most of you have been alive and believe me it is much better these days than it was when I started cycling in this city. Hope the trend continues.

1. We don't need you to educate us

2. You have no idea how old any of us are

3. You have no idea whether some of us also ride "high-end bicycles" (because it isn't something you need to bring up in every thread)

Seriously, you might have a lot in common with all of us, but you're not exactly trying to get along. Your fun is mean, or at least it seems mean in this context where your tone of voice and so forth can't give clues about whether you're being confrontational or just screwing around.

That said, despite the mixed feelings about this rack design (which I share, but only because anyone who knows me and my lack of coordination can probably picture me dropping a bike on my face while trying to use this rack), I appreciate the general sentiments of "hey, look, here's a new bike rack!" and "more bike parking is better than less bike parking." See, we do have something in common. Yay bike racks!

@ hcurtis just go.

i suppose this could be good for long-term parking for employees that ride in, but can't bring their bike in. but i guess if it is for them, it would be nice if it was covered

Now if I could only get some of the stores in my neighborhood to put in bike racks... (McCandless, Ross, West View)

Stu,

Which stores in particular?

@STU

What would be good for getting placed to add bike racks (and forgive me if this already exists) is something we could give the mangers/owners of said stores that would encourage them to add the racks. im thinking of a PDF file that would list specs of different racks and how to use them, the cost of adding a bike rack/corral and the benefits of adding a bike rack/corral. what would be really good is a whole set of documents that the owner could give to a contractor and say "Do this" the easier you can make something the better.

are there any tax breaks (or grants) for a business that provides these things?

like i said im just thinking off the top of my head but it seems like this would be a good thing to have.

I have used the rack a few times. I believe the reason for the design would be to save space for car parking. The parking lot at Trader Joe's is quite full much of the time. There are three bike racks next to the building for those with heavy bikes or those that don't want to lift their bike. I have used both racks and here is my take.

The new rack:

1. Better for light bikes and if you don't want your bike scratched and dinged due to the separation of bicycles.

2. Really easy and fast to lock to without your bike rolling around.

3. Very visible which I like due to it showing people do indeed ride bikes in our city.

The old bike racks that are still there:

1. Easy for the heavy utility bikes.

2. Possibly better for people that can't lift their bike.

3. Not good if you don't like dings and scratches because there are bikes coming and going on the same rack on the opposing side and the bikes will touch and may bang up against the rack or other bike.

I will always be using the new rack because I prefer the design. It is nice to have a choice and for me I really like the new rack. Just my take.

The only other question would be about theft? Will the visibility of this new rack deter theft? I don't really have an answer, but I do know the old racks which are right next to a sidewalk have thieves walking by and yanking on bicycles testing locks often, so I have been told by a manager there. This new rake they can walk by, but it might be a little odd to just yank on the bike quickly, since the bikes are in an odd position. I don't know the answer, just thinking aloud.

Stu said: "Now if I could only get some of the stores in my neighborhood to put in bike racks... (McCandless, Ross, West View)"

It has been a long time since I have ridden out that way and in years past cycling out there was not my favorite place to ride due to the aggressive drivers as well as very few cyclists out there. I was just wondering if cycling was becoming more popular and is the area improving for cyclists?

I think those are good points about the pros and cons of this rack style, hcurtis. Even if I'm more likely to use the other racks, I do really like that there is now more than one option for bike parking there. In general, people have different bikes and different approaches to locking, so having more than one style of rack is always nice.

It does seem like it might be a bit of a theft deterrent because of the odd position. I feel like it might be hard to mess with bikes in that vertical position without being somewhat more conspicuous. Not sure what makes me think that, so I guess I'm not making any real scientific claim... but if I were going to steal a bike, I wouldn't start with stealing off of a rack like this.

That reminds me, the other racks at Trader Joes are annoying too

They're on a step, which causes the bike to want to move around more, since the front wheel and rear wheel aren't on the same level

If I sound cranky, it's because once a job is done, it's much harder to change. If these things were installed with cyclists in mind from the beginning, we wouldn't have three heavy traffic stores with half ass implementations of bike racks

As for the new rack, if they're anything like the S-hooks I have at home in my basement hanging up several bikes, they're mildly annoying, but as Colin said, good for longer term storage

Pierce, they are not S-hooks. It is more like a pin that you hang your bike on that is stationary, so it is pretty fast to hang a bike on them. I also forgot to mention that bikes don't have to be hung that high as shown in the picture posted. Every other bike pin is high and then low, so the bikes would be staggered. The low pins would have your back or front wheel pretty close to the ground, so the bike won't be very high, if that makes a difference. It is an interesting design.

As I was checking out yesterday I asked the cashier about the rack. She indicated that they were having a theft issue. A couple of employees' bikes had been stolen. They hope the new rack will act as a deterrent, with the added visibility being a major factor.

Hcurtis, how old are you and how many years have you been riding?

Clearly longer than you've been alive and on a more expensive bike

On a related note though hcurtis, outside of Roger, I'm probably one of the youngest members of this forum.

If you come to a group ride, you'll find the majority of us our 30, 40, 50+

As a wise man once said, "It's not the years, it's the mileage."

HCurtis you are making some really broad, and pretty off-base assumptions about the average poster here. Some of us ride REALLY cheap bikes that we love and some of us ride grotesquely expensive bikes that we love. And a fair number of us ride both. if you wanted to get out the ruler you might be surprised at how run of the mill your bikes and years cycling are on this board. I'm one of the youngerish posters and I'm in my mid thirties, former bike messenger in the 90s here and spend insane amounts of time on all sorts of bikes and bike related activities. My wife is in her early thirties and while much newer to urban cycling and bikes in general than me, puts more miles on her cheap fixie an her high end road bike in a month than most fairly avid cyclists will ride in a year.

You will find that we are fairly typical of the demographic here, if a bit on the young side of the curve (for now)

Everyone else, I'm pretty sure a big part of my aversion to front wheel hanging is the large number of mountain bikes I own, upside down dampening circuits make for an unhappy fork.

There seemed to be a few people ITT wondering if the new rack is compatible with bikes that weigh around 50 lbs. Since I have a bike that fits into that category, I rode down to TJ's for a quick grocery run on my very own steel monster.

If I didn't have full fenders, I probably could have just lifted up on my handlebars and left the back tire on the ground. Instead, I just picked my bike up by grabbing the seat post with one hand and the handlebars with the other. It was a lot faster to get the wheel over the peg on the rack than the S-hooks I'm used to dealing with at Free Ride. I'd say that's a definite advantage to this style of bike rack.

I also noticed that my super-wide cruiser bars were conveniently not hitting the bike next to mine, thanks to the adjacent pegs being at different heights.

However, the drawback of using the lower peg was that my rear fender was on the ground, probably bearing some amount of load.

Next to the bike rack, there is a parking space. After hanging my bike up and locking it, it occurred to me that had a vehicle been parked in that adjacent spot, the whole ordeal would have been harder because of the tight quarters created. I'd really like to see that spot taken over by another rack or re-painted as a no parking zone. At the very least, it would make getting into the store easier for customers that aren't parked on the front row.

There was also a non-bike user of the new rack:

despite that fact that it says "Kick bike," we all know it's just a scooter.

Finally, I learned that it is still never a good idea to go grocery shopping on an empty stomach. This is especially true now that scientists have figured out how to make cookies into butter:

Cool pictures of that rack.

Seems I got off on the wrong foot with my... well dry sense of humor. Anyway, I ride old bikes and they wouldn't be considered "high end" by today's standards. Mostly I ride a fixed old track bike that for a while had no brake, but I ended up putting one on. I am primarily someone that doesn't like to drive a car, so I cycle everywhere I can and leave the car at home. That is about it.

Anyway, I think the new rack and cycling are a much more interesting topic and I am glad a few of you checked it out. Hope we continually get more bike lanes, corrals and racks as time passes. Enjoy.

Are these essentially the same as the ones downtown on 7th Avenue?

Perhaps they're more designed with the messenger bag crowd in mind. They'd have light bikes and no panniers or racks to worry about

Messenger bag crowd? Elaborate, please.

If I sound cranky, it's because once a job is done, it's much harder to change. If these things were installed with cyclists in mind from the beginning, we wouldn't have three heavy traffic stores with half ass implementations of bike racks

While I agree, to a certain extent, that any infrastructure provided is good (and let it not be misunderstood that I think we should just be happy that we get anything at all), I do think it can be frustrating when we think about how simple it would have been to do it right in the first place. And even in the cases where it is easy to fix now, it can be hard persuading someone to care enough to expend the effort to make the change (especially having already made an effort previously).

@ieverhart

Those who prefer messenger bags over panniers and racks

A strange breed, heh, heh

I like messenger bags over panniers.

I havent used the new rack yet, but Im glad it is there. Often a lot of bikes parked at the Joe's. I always thought the layout of their ground rack was kind of weird, with only enough room for one wheel to really be out of the sidewalk...

Folks are saying this rack might have have some space issues as well with parked cars, so obviously Trader Joe's has some space restrictions. Its cool that even with little space, they are a bike friendly establishment.

Also, I saw someone on one of those "Kick Bikes" the other day in Oakland, and it seemed pretty slow-going and looked like it took a bit of effort. At least skateboards and those nice shiny Razor scooters are portable. I thought the Kick Bike concept seemed silly. I bet those folks have ONE really strong leg.

For added amusement, check out the Kickbike Kickspark sled. This actually seems like it might have a place in society.. that is, if you live in a place like Winnipeg. http://www.kickbike.com/index.php?mid=93

Jay said: "Next to the bike rack, there is a parking space. After hanging my bike up and locking it, it occurred to me that had a vehicle been parked in that adjacent spot, the whole ordeal would have been harder because of the tight quarters created. I'd really like to see that spot taken over by another rack or re-painted as a no parking zone. At the very least, it would make getting into the store easier for customers that aren't parked on the front row."

Wow, you must have some pull. I stopped by Trader Joe's today and there is NO parking next to the new bike rack. There is plenty of room. Thanks for your suggestion, it paid off.

Wait wait wait wait..

They have spreadable cookies in a jar?

I must go to there.

@hcurtis: Okay, c'mon, admit it: you're the guy who owns the Trader Joe's.

I did find it funny someone mentioned about that parking spot and magically it disappeared. I figured that guy was the owner. lol

So I locked up a mountain bike there today on the low peg. First, it was not fun getting it up there (5'6", was kinda tired already which did not bode well for the uphill trip home). Second, my crate was in fact on the ground. Kinda looked hilarious.

@hcurtis, I haven't been to TJ's since I took those pictures, but I thought I was standing in an empty parking spot when I took those pics. Maybe I was just hallucinating a memory? Anyhoo, I suppose if it the rain stops I'll swing by there and check it out again.