BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

welcome to the board. check out the commuting 101 thread (link below). it is very helpful for people new to biking even if your not "commuting" (i'm new also)

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/the-commuting-101-booklet

thanks need to get the shoes and cleats figured out

I'm an experienced rider. I ride in the city.

I got rid of my cleats. Sometimes it is very important to me to get my foot off the pedal, in, oh, say, about 1/4 second. Not often, mind you, but often enough for me to forgoe the minimal advantage of cleats.

Mick

I can't stand to ride anywhere without them. I feel far safer/more stable clipped in than having my feet loose. I can go off a curb, hit an unexpected bump, pot hole, whatever, and not lose my footing. When I need to, my feet always seem to pop out without me even thinking about it.

try toe clips?

Dwillen, I want to find out what cleats you use. There really is a distinct possibility that I've never done it right.

that being said, I would never recommend cleats to someone new to cycling - although I understand that there are some people who want to start in an advanced way.

My experience with bike salesmen is that typically they will say absurd things with an implication that I were a sErIoUs biker, I would certainly see things their way.

For example, I like having a low gear. I won't spend a lot of money on a bike that has the standard cross-bike 28 tooth front and 32 back as it's lowest gear. No good for getting up 18th street when I'm tired and just want to be there. (YMMV. of course)

It's standard for sales dweebs to tell me "When you get in shape this won't be a problem." I've heard that word for word, a dozen times. As though the 2400 miles I rode last year was a prelude. As though an "In shape" person never has to ride 10 miles home when they are exhausted.

I can't help but think a newbie should be told that not all serious bikers use cleats. There was a thread here, where the consensus seemed to me (I'm biased), that most utility bikers here didn't use cleats.

So it's good for the newbie to see there are different points of view.

Mick

I should say, I am coming from a mountain bike background (where cleats can be very useful, safety wise). I use some generic SPD lateral release cleats. They have about a 4 degree float if I remember correctly. If you are still working on getting your balance and such, I'd suggest normal platform pedals, but if you have good command of your bike, being attached to your pedals with cleats isn't a bad thing.

I see the toe cage things with street shoes as being pretty dangerous, personally. If you wreck, it is a lot harder to get your feet out of those. Of course, every rider is different, so for some, toe cage things can be a good connivence/safety compromise.

Call me old school, but I've always been happy with cheap ($20ish), simple pedals. No clips, no cleats, no cages, rideable with any sort of street shoe, jump on/off-able on a quarter-second's notice.

OTOH it's really helpful to develop a pedaling technique that lets you get effort out of 270 degrees of rotation with each leg, even with el cheapo pedals.

I started riding on recumbents, wherein foot retention is significantly more important than on a traditional upright bike, so got into the clipless habit early and never stopped.

That aside, there's something to be said for platform pedals, especially in foul weather; I leave the price comparison between SPD winter boots and regular winter boots as an exercise for the reader.

i have cleats. i biked ALOT with them to and from work. but then i didnt have to bike up hills as much anymore, and i got mad that i always had to bring shoes with me, and now i dont use them anymore. but i have them so i can change if i go on long long rides.

getting used to them = falling over slowly. often. it will make you stronger, in the end....

clipless pedals have saved my ass and hurt it. one time I dinged a car while we were both doing something stupid. I barely got out of my pedals and crashed maybe more awkwardly than necessary.

another time, a car and I both screwed up at the same time and I was able to muster the power and agility to wrench myself out of harm's way... probably due to the advantage of the pedals.

all in all though, if I had been using my brain instead of risking it, neither situation would have arisen. I still like my cleats, but try to be more vigilant and less reckless to minimize the chance I'll have to pop out in a hurry. I don't see them as a terrible risky if you are used to them.

edit: then again, i'd been riding bikes for a while before going clipless. might pay to work on your skills/instincts/reflexes before giving up the platform pedals. happy riding!!

Thank you to all. I started riding in July on an old Schwinn. I put about 5oo miles on since mid July not allot but learning. I just purchased my trek this last week. I want to learn the cleats. Just putting it all together.....

The cleats help in two real ways: 1. acceleration from a stop 2. climbing tough hills

but it takes quite a bit of intentional practice before that kicks in.

I think your shins would like you to add a 3rd item to that list...

I dunno, I've mainly ridden with toe clips. I've been riding with clipless all summer and I'm still not sure I like them, mainly from a safety perspective... and for short trips it is a pain to have to change shoes. I have a set of combo pedals (SPD one side, platform on the other) on one of my bikes which is a decent compromise even if the wrong side always seems to be pointing up.

I had a set of Shimano A530 pedals on my commuter and liked them( Probably the same ones salty has). They are platform on one side and spd clipless on the other. They are targeted for tourers and commuters and give you the advantage of riding clipped in or in regular shoes without much tradeoff.

That being said, the shimano pedals are about $100 bux a pair and thanks to REI's generous return policy, I returned them when I found these:

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_502335_-1_201521_10000_201527

I actually like them better than the shimanos. They can also be adjusted to a lighter release than the shimanos. I will say it is tough to go back to platforms after you develop good circle pedaling and I enjoy the feeling of security when I am clipped in.

For about 5 years now, I've been riding with the SPD/platform combo pedals, and I find it's a pretty good solution. When I go out just to ride, I use my bike shoes and clip in, but for errands I can easily just wear sneakers. The only thing is that usually when I am just wearing street shows, it seems that I start out for a good distance with my foot resting on the SPD cleat--OK once you get used to it, but if you need to accelerate from an intersection, it can be inconvenient.

FWIW, I love my cleats. They do take some adjustment. I agree with the suggestion to get comfortable biking without cleats before switching to them. By comfortable, I mean get to the point where mounting/dismounting, stopping/starting, changing gears, etc all happen without you consciously realizing it or thinking about the mechanics.

At least for me, when I first started wearing cleats (~10 yrs ago), I had to actually think about stopping and starting - being sure that my foot was unclipped before I came to a full stop, and getting clipped back in after starting again. With a little practice, that becomes reflex as well, but I'd hesitate to try to do too many things at once - okay, red light coming up, slow down, squeeze the brakes gently, downshift, get my foot out, look out for cars, UH OH I'M ALREADY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSEC .

Also, important safety tip: after you get your shoes, be sure the cleats are screwed on really tightly. Really, really tightly. One time, after I got some new shoes, I didn't double-check myself, but instead popped them on to ride home. Something felt strange, but I couldn't quite identify what. On the third or fourth red light, I realized what - the screws were loose enough that the cleats were rotating when I twisted to unclip. At that point, they had become loose enough that I couldn't unclip. I had to perform several "interesting" maneuvers in traffic before I found a place that I could safely slow to a stop and hug a pole.

Don't let that scare you off, though. I have combo pedals right now, but I pretty much never wear street shoes anymore. Using the system makes my feet and legs *much* more comfortable.

Thank you. I am going to ride the Lisbon Trail 10 mile out and 10 miles back - today cleatless. I know that I need to be able to feel totally comfortable on my new bike and all has to come together before I tackle the trail with them. I will practice mounting and dismounting in a parking lot some place. So if you see this person that you think is a crazy lady getting on and off their bike please know it is just little old me learning the cleat thing. Now that I have matching knees - Grace is not that coordinated to maneuve as you have through the streets. I would have hit the pole instead of hugging it as you have. I want to learn them and I plan on taking my time.

I've got clipless on my mountain bike, and strapless toe clips on my commuter. I am seriously considering getting rid of the clipless -- I really just hate them. Because I've developed a fear of beign stuck in them (from experience) I find that I usually "clip out" of at least one pedal before I get to anything hairy on the path, which entirely defeats the purpose of the pedal.

On the other hand, I LOVE my cheapo strapless toe clips from REI. They are really more like rounded toe caps than actual clips. They don't give me a lot of 270/360 pedalling assistance, but they keep my foot from slipping off the platform pedal in bad weather (regardless of what crazy shoes I may be wearing) AND keep my foot aligned properly on the pedal, which has reduced knee pain after a long ride.

I hope that your clipless pedals came with the most important instructions that I ever got.....

When you start with clipless pedals, do a LOT of riding on grassy surfaces to get used to them. You'll do a lot of falling. It's softer on the grass. And, if you find yourself in need of a little humility, do it in a public place, like a park. There is nothing like the expressions you'll see as people watch you slowly fall over on your bike for no apparent reason.

This has been posted in other threads, but it seems appropriate here...from Grant Petersen, The Shoe Ruse.

does anybody use the crank brothers platform pedals and find them okay for normal shoes as well as cleats?

swalfort: There is nothing like the expressions you'll see as people watch you slowly fall over on your bike for no apparent reason.

Sounds like Saturday night on Carston St to me - except there is no "on your bike" involved there.

Mick

I have matching knees to prove that I have been trying.

I will say if you go the clipless pedal route, until you feel comfortable tightening them down, make the bindings as loose and light as possible. They should still hold you in the pedals fine, but should allow you to unclip with as little effort as possible, thus avoiding the mysterious falling over cyclist.

This has been posted in other threads, but it seems appropriate here...from Grant Petersen, The Shoe Ruse.

Tevas? Crocs? I cringe every time I see someone riding a bike in sandals. Road rash on my toes doesn't sound like much fun. I think I'd go helmet-less before I ditched shoes that offer a modicum of protection for my feet. It is pretty amusing to watch someone lose their flip flop in the middle of an intersection though, stop, dismount, walk back (half barefoot), and pick up their footwear.

Flip-flops != Keens/Crocs/Tevas. I'd be hard-pressed to get my Keens to come flying off my feet when I'm riding.

It's important to note, I think, that Peterson is, in railing against things like clipless pedals and special cycling kit, trying to be a model that says to on-lookers "you don't need a bunch of special stuff to ride your bike to the park."[1] You really don't need to be attached to your pedals to ride and control your bike (don't believe me? Watch a video of Danny Macaskill). Yes, they are great for riding fast or riding an MTB, or even for commuting--but you can ride a bike, and ride a bike well, without them.

[1]: Yes, there is some cognitive dissonance in Petersen writing this, since he sells bikes that retail for well over $2000. And yes, he has good reasons to market this mentality since he sells platform pedals. But I don't think that negates his point.

I know flip-flops aren't the same as tevas and keens. Most keens at least have something to protect your toes. But all the same, you see people riding a bike with them (flip-flops). I have a pair of crocs and I think they don't fit snugly enough (by design) to be decent biking shoes. They work great to throw in my panniers though, for when I get where I'm going.

I think a lot of it has to do with how and where you're biking. When I lived in a flat city with bike paths, bike lanes, etc (much like the city that Petersen works in), I just wore sneakers. I never even thought to carry around another pair of shoes unless I was going to put in 30 or more miles. Here, with lots of hills, shitty roads, people trying to kill me with their car, hopping crubs to get on a dirt path, I haven't been out that much without cycling shoes, even for short trips.