BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I drove from McCandless to Cranberry and back around 7 a.m. Very slick. Saw one fender-bender. Closer to the city is likely to be worse, I'd bet. There's 23" on the ground in my yard.

The roads in town seem passable enough. Very little appears to have been plowed, but there's been enough traffic to have ground down the snow into a thin layer. If biking, you want a mountain bike with low pressure tires still.

I was out yesterday around the Oakland / Lawrenceville / Polish Hill areas, and with a mountain bike, I had a 50/50 succesful ride. While the roads are really not that plowed that much, the snow is indeed compacted enough to ride in some areas, but once at intersections, the criss/cross of car's slush will most likely get you down (but pretty fun since the snow softens the situation).

One cool thing about riding right now, is that there's not that many cars on the road, and many people are on the streets walking instead of driving to places! I had much pleasure yesterday to ride down Bigelow Boulevard sans traffics )or cars for that matter!) Also, I saw a bunch of cars stuck on snow, or people trying to clear with shovels enough street for their cars to roll out and drive, while I passed them down.

And at last, what I really got a kick-out of: three different people lifting their thumb asking me for a lift! I thought that was funny!

that's the best thing about snowstorms...people take back the streets!

Yeah, Oakland was pretty much 100% shared space the last two days. I have a lot of good pictures.

Edgewood streets are clear but icy in spots. Planning on and looking forward to riding my mountain bike to work tomorrow!

I drove from Oakland to Ross Park Mall. City is slick but most people are being courteous to everyone out. State roads are clear for the most part. As always, people on McKnight are being idiots.

rode from uptown to bloomfield and back via oakland. streets are passable with a mountain bike cause the snow is packed down enough to be on top.

bikeygirl's description was pretty on point. definitely got a few dirty looks, but got way more thumbs up and smiles...but mostly from pedestrians.

i'm actually not looking forward to the streets being plowed. this stuff is keeping cars off the road, and the ones who do, actually go slow

@erok -I agree with you. I also do not look forward too much for things to go back to normal or mre plowed streets, but the way I see things out there, it's gonna take awhile for any normality to return. I really wonder how tomorrow is gonna be... don't foresee too many people making it to work...

Stuff I saw yesterday:

A woman on her cell phone with a dude tailgating her. (pre plowed street)

A woman honking at some guys walking up the street (they were taking up most of the street) and them promptly fishtailing when try to pass them.

The road here in Mt. Lebo seem pretty good and steadily getting better.

A guy going down at 15%+ grade while texting. (or updating FB? New status: crash imminent.)

the best was walking down the middle of the street yesterday and having the few cars drive down the street with the sheepish "i know what you're going to say, don't say it, i know i'm an idiot" look on their faces. @pratt: people did take back the streets.

Back to my favorite motto: "roads are for people, not just people in cars"

the sheepish "i know what you're going to say, don't say it, i know i'm an idiot" look on their faces.

ha ha. definitely saw that

The streets around the east end are decidedly mixed. Negley has spots of pavement, and spots of thick, rutted ice. Most side streets are not plowed.

Today was the first time I've never seen a single bicycle at Whole Foods.

the roads in somerset are clear now

back in town, i saw hot metal bridge and jail trail are untouched. most of the streets in the flats on the southside are packed snow turning to ice. 18th street is passable at 1-1/2 lanes. Many cars are still parked in the shoulder from Friday it seems.

i saw hot metal bridge and jail trail are untouched

I can't imagine the city will get to these any time soon, given the state of most roads in the city.

I suspect this week will mark a shift in my commuting attitude. A few years ago, I ALWAYS rode, in anything, to prove to myself and to my coworkers that I was tough. After ten years of commuting (with the option now of working from home when I want to), however, I don't feel that I need to prove anything to anyone. I have no desire to fight two feet of snow on the trails, or deal with the untreated sidewalk on Fifth Avenue to get home.

Cost of snow tires. 50 dollars. Facial expressions of stuck motorists as you pass them on your bike. Priceless.

When non-bikers ask me if I get cold, I tell them the truth: "The coldest I will get this winter is when I get into an unheated car - same as you."

Unless I do something dumb - and most winters I manage not to - that is the truth.

I'm wimped out this weekend. Friday night I rode home - or rather rode and walked. Since then, I've bused.

I rode from Uptown to the CMU Brontosaurus and back on these 700x25s. I followed tire tracks on Fifth and Forbes, no problems. Had a few looks from bystanders, though.

I skied through Frick Park to Dee's for dinner tonight. I had to walk a little bit, to cross some spots where the rare civic-minded people had shoveled their walks, but really, how often do you get to ski to the bar? While I stood outside cooling off, one gentleman opened his car door and shouted "Hey, buddy! No offense, but, have you really been using those to get around?" I was proud to be able to answer "absolutely."

Lyle: I saw some folks skiing right down the middle of Fifth Ave in Oakland Saturday afternoon.

Shared space x 100. It's been great.

seems the roads are worse today. but when you throw in a gagillion single occupancy vehicles into the mix things get funny.

hey kids, the word of the day:

Can you say "Clusterfuck"

i walked to work, because i saw flashing signals on carson and police blocking 12th street. the sidewalks are better than the city streets at this point. however, i just saw a cyclist ride pass my office along the alley between the busway and liberty in the strip.

the roads with packed snow/ice are perfect for studded tires, but the volume of cars testing the conditions just make it too dangerous in my eyes... so many cars running through stop signs and red lights, because braking will send them out of control.

Unsurprisingly, the Eliza Furnace Trail is mostly snowcovered. The lot at Swinburne street is almost untouched except for one track by a plow. They made the attempt to plow the trail but only got as far as the pedestrian bridge between the lot and the Hot Metal Bridge where a tree is down blocking the trail.

From there to Bates Street there is a single track that looks like someone had a personal plow. Narrow but not too bad.

From Bates Street almost to the Birmingham Bridge has some tracks through the snow, slow going, where there is another tree down. They plowed from there to just the other side of the Birmingham Bridge and gave up there. It's snow covered with me and one other lunatic blazing a trail through the snow from there to the Second Avenue parking lot.

I went out on my mtn bike today but turned around once I got to Forbes and Braddock. Too many cars and it just wasn't worth it when I can work from home.

I usually see at least one bike while waiting for my 28X Downtown. This morning, in about a 15-minute wait around 8:30, none. A lot fewer cars, too. Lots more people on the bus, though.

Saw a guy on a fixie come out of Forbes and turn onto Stanwix today at lunch. He was having some trouble getting a grip on the road, meanwhile a fishtailing mini-van comes around the bend behind him. The cyclist hit some sort of ice bump lost his feet off the pedals (no toe clips) wobbled. A slightly bigger bump and he might have gone down right in front of the van which wasn't giving him much space. Fortunately he didn't.

I abandoned the stopped bus and walked down Fifth avenue from Stevenson today to get to work. Crossing Chatham Square and Washington the two people walking in front of me fell on the ice. They got up and a car started beeping. It was sliding downhill, wheels locked, unable to stop. We got out of the way and fortunately traffic on 5th was moving slowly enough to stop due to the near gridlock that he got through unscathed but the roads are bad. It's more slush than ice downtown right now, but it will be icy again.

I went out for a ride today. It wasn't much fun. Only the occasional street is cleared, and a lot of them are covered in nasty slippery slush.

I tried Ellsworth and had the bike come out from under me once a block or more. Stay well away from that one.

Moreover, all of the roads are wet, slippery, and uncleared, but people are getting overconfident, driving faster than is safe and passing closely. I'd honestly take a bus or walk if at all possible.

I did see a Public Works plow out clearing Overlook Drive in Schenley Park for no reason. Forbes and Fifth still look like they're more or less untouched. I'm pretty sure no one at the city has the slightest idea of what they're doing.

^LOL! Can't wait to see what Old Man Winter has in store for us tomorrow.

I rode in to work yesterday- Squirrel Hill, down Greenfield, and to town on 2nd Ave. It was hardpack, so very rideable. Only pickups honked at me- they could have given me a ride! On the way home I walked it through Panther Hollow and took my one fall approaching CMU.

Worrying about lots of cars today, I rode the bus- it took 1 1/2 hours to get sort of near town, so I bailed and ran the 2.5 miles to work on the north side. Should have driven- 376 was clear and not too slow, but wanted to do the right thing.

The pedestrian bridge and Point State Park was plowed to dry cement. Go figure.

I have to drive tomorrow (!) but may take a shovel with me on the bus on Wednesday. Wouldn't be the first time. IME, anyplace that gets any sort of clearing off ends up being fairly nice to walk on after a day or so without snow. So I do a little clearing off, one shovel width wide, on the walkways not already being cleared, between Point A and Point B, and by the bus stop where I'm waiting. And if any shop owner wants to stick a $10 bill in my hand to do a good job, I'm prepared.

Yep. Most of the sidewalks along my street are dry, and have been since Sunday. Given the sunshine and relative warmth, if the city could actually get the plows out to the secondary roads, they may have a shot at clearing some of them.

But they haven't even managed to get them out on main roads. Pitiful.

I've been told that side streets are bad...and I'll believe it from the way that mine looks.

I am taking the bus tomorrow morning.

I walked the 2.5 or so miles from my home to the business district in Bellevue today. I can count the number of homes/businesses who had not made at least one pass at the clearing the sidewalk on one hand.....mostly vacant storefronts (2), houses for sale and presumed vacant (2) and small (4-6 unit) apartment buildings. Funny thing about the apartment buildings.....sidewalks had not been touched, but driveways were completely clear. Still it was a nice walk. And I saw three people out on bikes.

I saw that Penn Ave and Meade St had been cleared and were actually decent and passable on Saturday morning. But then they got worse. I think that everyone cleared out a parking space and threw the snow back into the road, where it got packed into an inch of ice.

Those apartment buildings are owned by people who pay contractors to clear their driveways. Why don't they pay the contractors to also clear the sidewalks? Because they don't want to spend the money, and the city doesn't enforce its sidewalk-clearing laws. Have you noted the condition of the sidewalks outside the public schools? As of yesterday, the private properties were more likely to have passable sidewalks.

According to KDKA-TV, the National Guard will be patrolling tonight "to ensure that things remain calm". Maybe they could patrol to ensure that property owners clear their sidewalks.

According to the PG, the city has suspended handing out citations for sidewalk clearing violations. Someone is going to have to explain that one to me.

51 from Brownsville road to the liberty tubes was horrible today. It was full of ice potholes. I did see a few people walking faster then cars in the middle of the lanes! Traffic was averaging 0-3mph.

Best part of the ride today: the guy getting pissy with me for going too slow down One Wild Place through the zoo, then getting stuck in traffic as I slowly rode by him. There were at least three cars stuck, so no one was going either way anytime soon. People were actually rolling down their windows to talk to me. Sort of weird that people in cars were being social. OK, so they really just wanted to know if traffic was going to start moving, but I'll take what I can get. The worst part of today's ride: icy packed base with missing holes and slushy, squishy snow randomly scattered around. I definitely need my off-road tires front and rear for tomorrow. I was going to go to Whole Foods on Saturday just to see how many people were riding, but the last time I did that, I felt too humbled by the crazy fixies with 700X23's...

Road conditions = FAIL, at least on the part of the City. Penn Ave. was horrid--full of chunks and slush.

Took me two hours to get from my apt. in East Lib. to Home Depot and Trader Joe's and back. This was in a car though...saw a couple bikers gettin' around nicely. I think I'm going to invest in some cross-country skis or some snowshoes....

According to the PG, the city has suspended handing out citations for sidewalk clearing violations. Someone is going to have to explain that one to me.

Yeah, esp. since they could invest that extra money in better snow removal.

Oh, one thing to add: the ELB bike lanes are cleared, but the car lane is 3/4 cleared, so the cars drift into the bike lane.

It's 100% shared lane now. There's no such thing as a bike lane.

Yeah, esp. since they could invest that extra money in better snow removal.

I'm going to have to disagree on both counts. I'd much rather people shovel their sidewalks than the city makes money off of it... but if they did have the money I can think of plenty of things I'd rather they spend it on than "better" snow removal. Aside from allowing certain "essential" vehicles to get through, I couldn't care less if they plow the roads at all.

I sympathize, a little, but when the grocery store runs out of milk, bread, and eggs because the trucks can't reach it, I think I'll be sorry the roads aren't clear.

i'd put the blame on all of the people who thought it was a good idea to continue life as usual today and drive in a single occupancy vehicle, not the condition of the roads. trucks won't have problems on this stuff, they're heavy enough. i suppose most people coming in from the burbs would assume that the city would do something about it, but can they really complain about the roads and still whine about the city wage taxes?

According to the Post-Gazette

Mayor Luke Ravenstahl today held a press conference, updating the public on efforts to clear City roads.

ll Public Works Crews have been ordered to focus their efforts on plowing the City's secondary roads in a maximized effort to resolve access into all neighborhoods. As of 4 p.m., crews cleared roughly 50 percent of the City's secondary roads. At 10 a.m., that number was at roughly 15 percent.

"We're doing everything we can to get a handle on our roads in order to position ourselves for this next storm," Ravenstahl said. "Our goal is to have every secondary street touched by tomorrow's storm.

Puzzling to me - I've seen no signs of ANY secondary road being plowed and very little of primary roads.

Are they plowing back roads, instead of roads like 5th Ave? Nothing in Oakland appears plowed to me.

Bad things might happen when the snow starts falling tomorrow.

@erok: ... can they really complain about the roads and still whine about the city wage taxes?

hahahahaha

i saw them plowing secondary streets in my neighborhood this evening -finally. unfortunately, there's still several inches of snow left after the pass of the plow! this is going to be a mess for a while now.

does anyone have any information on why the city's response has been so horrible?

As of last night, the city was running 80% of their plows (the other 20% was broken down and/or stuck). A plow came through Morningside last night, which was the first I've seen since Saturday. Most of my co-workers who live in the city are socked in worse that I am. I am slightly sympathetic to the city's plight, but I'm sure the DPW isn't the most efficient department.

jkoutrouba: I was at Whole Foods on Sunday, and there wasn't a single bike outside, but the store was packed.

I'm working from home again today....

Condition report:

California from Brighton Heights to terminus at Brighton Rd is very bike-able, with two notable exceptions: a short stretch between the 65 overpass and the Woods Run bridge is iffy, and the stretch from the traffic light at Marshall to the post office is really, really dangerous (mashed potatoes evenly filling in over lots of icy truck ruts).

Of course, given current weather forecast, this probably will not be even remotely accurate for more than another couple of hours...

hey erok, I'm going to have to differ with you. The trucks do have problems with this stuff. The city got a 4-ton dump truck stuck in the snow the other day. There was a tractor-trailer jacknifed on the parkway. One of my coworkers said that a city bus couldn't get up the "hill" on Oliver St downtown the other day. Heavy trucks have poor stopping distances on dry pavement, snow makes things much worse. Yeah, they can get through weather that people in Priuses can't, but eventually even the big dogs hit their limits.

But me? I skied through the park to Squirrel Hill and back today. All except for two blocks I had to walk -- which had clear sidewalks, except for the trip home after a city plow had cleared the street and filled in the sidewalk. Priorities.

My son (20) rode about a mile of McKnight Road today, and 12A'd back. He reported that the predominant road surface was a continuous rut a foot or two wide, one for each car wheel, with a sheer cliff of ice maybe two to three inches high on either side. This was filled typically with slop, with a pool of water over the occasional manhole cover and potholes.

Hell, I'm not fond of McKnight on a dry day in July.

@erok: yes, the blame rests squarely on those who decided to dig out their single occupancy vehicles and go get them stuck somewhere else while endangering everyone else in the process. Dumb people's overconfidence after 3 days of the snow not melting is the biggest danger to anyone right now. Just because it has been a few days does not mean the snow has actually melted or that driving has gotten any easier...

Ummmm, I'd say the blame rests on the City for the road conditions at this point. I can't just pick up my groceries on my bike in this weather and currently I'm injured...so I have to use my car. I wouldn't be making such statements about "dumb people's overconfidence."

If there's anything dumb going on, it's the mentality of those driving + the City's incompetence, not the fact that people are driving. And honestly, for a city like Pittsburgh to look the way it does right now is ridiculous.

I'd say the blame rests on the City for the road conditions at this point

I dunno...I think it may have had more to do with a near record-breaking storm.

It's not like the City/County/State plans for weather of this magnitude; or, to be more precise, it's not like any of the above would be capable of maintaining the amount of equipment, material, or manpower on call to handle something this far out of the ordinary, without spending a LOT of money which would be wasted in normal years.

Thought experiment: what could have been done differently, well in advance, that would have led to clear streets city-wide by, say, Sunday evening?

I'd say that this falls more under the heading of "shit happens" than "gross incompetence".

(And, as is evidenced by the debacle that is, say, Stanwix St, a large part of the problem comes about from people driving before the roads are reasonably clear, packing it into ice and making it almost impossible to plow up without destroying the street...)

Salt? I'm still not sure why ELB is so clear, but Baum and Centre aren't...

And I suppose it was a lot of snow, but I thought that Pittsburgh would have been better able to handle it.

Is DC in any better shape than Pittsburgh? I already had this discussion with people who cited amazing tales of how much better they deal with snow in , but if you spend 10 seconds searching, you find people trotting out the same complaints regardless of where they live.

Pittsburgh Public Works clearly states their priorities as: (1) Public Safety, (2) Commerce, (3) Convenience. They have a limited budget, and I'm certainly not in favor of increasing that budget because some people feel inconvenienced by a massive and rare snowstorm. Yet, when people are asked to do a simple thing like staying off the roads so crews can do their jobs, they can't be bothered.

I'm not sure where I fall on the outrage spectrum. From what I've read, other cities that were hit as hard (or harder) aren't doing much better than we are. It was a lot of snow.

That said, the city has never proven itself to be particularly wise or efficient, so I am not surprised. That the DPW would be able to elegantly and efficiently solve a graph problem like getting the city plowed strikes me as a stretch.

Maybe that's why they have to get CMU to help them...

CMU? Awesome, so long as they don't get anyone on the autonomous vehicle team involved. Robot snowplows just don't give me a warm fuzzy...

In all seriousness, I'd love to see what they come up for routing algorithms.

That's pretty funny considering the condition of the Forbes Ave. sidewalks on CMU campus this morning.

I'm sure that the routing could be optimized, especially if you remove the "does a city official or one of their buddies live on this block?" criteria... but I'm not convinced it would result in more than a marginal improvement. How much time do the trucks spend in-transit vs actually plowing?

I've been around Pittsburgh for a long time. My impression: we've had big storms before, but we haven't had the slow cleanup I'm seeing now.

It might be I'm mistaken about the amount of snow we had Friday or I might be misremebering the amount of time it took to clean up.

It just seems strange and unreasonable that Pitt would have to have a snow day on a Monday when the snow fell on Friday night. It was less than two feet of snowfall, wasn't it?

What could have been done differently?

I don't know about the city at large, but in Uptown/Oakland, they could have plowed Fifth and Forbes - early and often. I see no reason for 5 or 6 inches of mashed potatoes on top of ruts on Fifth two days after the snowfall.

I recall once in the distant past seeing four snowplows going down Fifth in a wedge that pushed the snow to the parking side. It's clear from the shape Fifth was in on Sunday that had not happened.

I think they could have managed one pass with a plow over all the city streets by Sunday night.

It was little cold for salt, yes, but I haven't seen any sand or gravel on the roads. They could have used some of that.

There are cities, Minneapolis, Chicago that get huge amounts of snow. I have not heard of Pittsburgh flying in the snow removal experts from those cities.

This morning, finally, a plow went down my street (or at least half the street) he cruised at roughly the speed cars go and took off maybe half an inch of the 4 inches of rutted, iced packed snow. If the other streets in the city were cleared, than I would look at it as one lazy or incompetent operator. One guy who got to the end of his rope, maybe.

As it is, I believe it is a management issue. When you have seriously overworked crews, you have to have managers making sure they do things right.

Ohter cites are having a rough time, too. I would expect DC to be shut down by the amount of snow we got here, but then, they don't get this kind of snow as often as we do.

To me, the city administration is not looking good on this one

Disclaimer: I lived in 150-inch+ territory when I was a kid. I don't expect Pittsburgh to do what they did, but still, maybe I'm expecting too much.

Mick

Ok, risking the wrath of the public here, but I too lived in a much snowier environment before moving the Pgh. In the upper midwest, snow hit often, and often in the sort of depths that we are seeing this week. Yet the City almost NEVER shut down. And, with rare exceptions, all streets AND ALLEYS were plowed within 24 to 36 hours.

What is different between the two cities? On the side of the midwest -- more equipment. I hear that Pgh has 41 plows out today, and has borrowed/contracted with another 40 more. If accurate, that is simply too few for the job. I note that this is for the City only -- every one of the the 100 + other communities in the county also have snow equipment of their own. Some of this equipment is what is currently on loan to the City of Pgh.

Again on the side of the midwest, on call workers - my brother is a City employee in the Forestry department of the City I grew up in. As a CDL licensed driver for the City, he is on call a specified number of days a month for plowing. If they call, he has to go in and plow - or have a really good excuse. Those calls often come at 2 or 4 in the morning, to get the City ready for the morning commute. Sometimes they are out for a few hours, sometimes all day, sometimes for a very long day. It's a drag, but they get overtime pay, so it balances out (or so he says).

The upper midwest is also MUCH LESS tolerant of street parking, which makes a big difference. Most streets have one side of the street parking, which may change according to the day of the week. It means that plows can get through, and get through quickly. Cars that are illegally parked are removed. PERIOD. Occasionally cars are unable to be removed, and they get plowed in. Other routes are designated as "snow routes" and on street parking is simply prohibited.

Working against Pittsburgh is the temperature. In the upper midwest, it gets cold, and stays cold for most of the winter. A day in the 30's is a cause for celebration. As a result, the City can focus on either plowing or on salting. Today, on my street I watched a plow operator make three passes at the nearby intersection. Then he came down my street. He plowed for half a block, backed up half a block, raised the bed of the truck, salted half a block, lowered the bed of the truck, put down the plow blade, plowed my end of the street and then moved out of sight.

I'll be grateful for both the plowing and the salting tomorrow. But, it is a really slow way to do snow removal. Sometimes I am thankful I live in one of the "one square mile" communities in Allegheny County. It means that they do get to my street pretty quickly.

Average snowfall here is 40" per year. We got over half that in one day, and it was also the 4th largest total on record. If you don't accept that as a significant amount of snow (not to mention the density of it, downed trees/wires, etc), the rest is just conjecture.

If we brought in "experts" from Minneapolis, no one would complain, right?

http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls/messages/topic/2PD9vbZNIsMRzCXf2c7Eb3

Apparently MPLS can't afford all their plows anyway - they reduced the fleet from 134 to 80:

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/money/Minneapolis-Cuts-Snow-Plowers-this-Winter-nov-11-2009

I think it's a complete overreaction, but of course the voters will be pandered to... hopefully they'll let people sit inside those shiny new unused snowplows next winter to make up for the libraries or parks or whatever else they had to shut down to come up with the money.

Reddan:

I would understand some slowness in clearing the roads. But three days goes well beyond slow. I didn't see any reasonable effort to clear Fifth Avenue until Monday night, and that's a main route to hospitals and the second biggest employment center in Western PA. They should have been salting and plowing during the storm. They should have started plowing Fifth on Saturday.

On the other hand, on Saturday and Monday during the day I saw plows out clearing several minor roads through Schenley Park, such as Overlook Drive and Circuit Drive (while the latter was still blocked by a downed tree).

Obviously the city has a lack of equipment working against it. But there were tons of pickup trucks with plows cruising the streets, clearing parking lots. The city could have contracted with those guys.

So: what the city should do is prioritize what streets it is going to clear and clear them, and contract with others if it lacks resources itself.

Well, it sounds like the city is admitting that they kinda screwed up:

Ravenstahl vows more effective response to new snow

On the other hand, on Saturday and Monday during the day I saw plows out clearing several minor roads through Schenley Park, such as Overlook Drive and Circuit Drive (while the latter was still blocked by a downed tree).

I saw plowing in Schenly on Saturday too. I wonder if this is a symptom of Balkanization of city govt. Citiparks has a crew based in Schenley, and they have plows, so they plow their park. It probably takes some kind of executive order from the mayor--which was slow in coming--to get them out of the park and onto streets. I don't know that this is the case, but it is what crossed my mind when I saw a plow in the park but Forbes had not been plowed Saturday.

Also from walking to the busway from Sq. Hill this morning, I can tell you road conditions are pretty bad. Though if you are considering taking the bike out to ride in this, you probably aren't all that concerned about such reports.

Interesting comment about the crew based in Schenley Park. Reminds me that plows have to come FROM somewhere. Some roads are beign plowed/salted early just because the PLOWS need to get access to/from their garages, fueling stations, etc. Those are likely to be in fairly out of the way places. Might be why parts of Schenley Park were plowed early -- to get the equipment onto the bigger streets.

Here's the story from the Milwaukee paper this morning on snow clean up there:

The storm that over two days slowly and steadily covered the Milwaukee area with powdery snow a foot deep in some places will be followed by at least a couple days of slow and steady cleanup.

Persistent winds gusting to 25 mph on Wednesday will hinder a snow-clearing operation expected to cost roughly $1 million for the City of Milwaukee and ring up a steep tab for parking-challenged residents on the east side.

A city snow emergency went into effect about 8 p.m. Tuesday, with rules that prohibit parking overnight on arterials, bus lines and through-highways. Street parking also was off-limits in areas designated under the city's 4-inch snow rule, and the impound lot for towed vehicles on W. Lincoln Ave. was expected to be busy Wednesday.

Jeff Mantes, Milwaukee's public works commissioner, said salt trucks and garbage packers would clear city streets through much of Wednesday.

By Wednesday afternoon, Mantes said, he expects the crews will tackle residential streets, then turn their attention to clearing bus stops Wednesday night. Curb cuts and pedestrian walkways will be cleared Thursday.

I look at it like this. When I grew up In Erie we had a snow blower and I wouldn't think about not having one there. In Pittsburgh my wife and I don't cause we don't get enough snow on a regular basis. The city doesn't have the need for an enormous fleet of snow plows.

As for what the city of Pgh was doing all day Sat and Sun is beyond me. Edgewood streets were passable by Sat at noon because they were up all night taking care of them. It's like Ravenstahl just threw up his hands and said "it's a snow day! No work!" and didn't bother mobilizing the snow removal teams until Monday when he realized just how bad it really was.

bjanaszek, Ravenstahl said he was going to do better this year and he failed.

Gee, I'm not shocked.

Ryan, are your streets maintained by Swissvale? If so, I suspect they have fewer streets than the city. I'm not trying to excuse the oddness of the city's response, just pointing out a difference in the scale of the problem.

Well, I guess at least next time someone tries to use the "bikes don't pay for the roads" argument, we can mention all the taxes we pay in the winter just so people don't have to suffer withdrawal from their car addiction for a few days...

Not allowing parking on the streets would make it so much easier to clean up the snow. However, that strikes me as completely impractical in Pittsburgh. Even here in Squirrel Hill a lot of my neighbors have no place to put their cars but on the street. It's much worse in other nabes. Maybe they could do it during the day like the alternate side street sweeping--but right now there aren't a lot of extra spots available due to huge piles of snow.

I tried to ride my mtn bike in on Monday and by the time I got to Braddock and Forbes I turned around. It was literally when I hit Pittsburgh that I was like, this isn't worth it.

I do realize the scale of Edgewood compared to Pittsburgh is a silly comparison, but their reactions were totally different it seems.

@jeff: you are right--most of Mornigside would be hosed if people couldn't park on the streets. I could have parked in the alley behind my house, but on Saturday the contractor who plowed the VFW lot pushed all the snow into the alley.

As far as responses, when I worked in Allison Park, it was always interesting to see how the conditions on Mt. Royal Blvd changed over the course of four miles--it crosses several small townships, and I would go from wet pavement to several inches of snow in a matter of a few blocks.

I was just chatting with a friend, and he noted that even if we get a snowstorm like this every 15 years, the city needs to have a clearly defined plan for dealing with it. I mean, did anyone see the salt map? Primary roads weren't treated this weekend....

Also, little lukey was partying at seven springs all weekend according to the post gazette

A (non-sarcastic) question for anyone: is there a priority system in place for what gets plowed first? Since the start of 'Snowmageddon' I've been riding every day and Tuesday I rode a 36 mile loop from Carnegie-downtown-Brighton Heights-downtown-Carnegie and I was amazed by the disparity in what had been well plowed versus what hadn't been touched. I couldn't believe the shape of some of the prominent streets in the downtown and South Side Works area. I too grew up in heavy snow country (Minn, ND) so this doesn't faze me, what does freak me out is seeing all the people who still feel the need to TEXT while driving! Cheers to all my fellow riders and stay safe out there.

I rode a 36 mile loop from Carnegie-downtown-Brighton Heights-downtown-Carnegie and I was amazed by the disparity in what had been well plowed versus what hadn't been touched.

Me too. Brighton Heights is a good case in point; the two main arteries (California and Brighton Rd) were in acceptable condition by Saturday evening, and were mostly clear by Sunday afternoon. Some of the main feeders between them (Termon, Benton) were, eh, iffy-but-usable...everything else lacked more than a single surface plowing until Monday, and many of the minor streets were still inches deep in slush as of yesterday afternoon.

That said, getting around up here and down to town has been fairly painless, both by bike and by car; whatever they did here should probably be a model for other areas.

Actually, come to think of it, I can see two reasons for the main street versus side street discrepancy; one is the simple choice of allocating limited plow resources mostly to the main roads. The other touches on the street parking problem; without physically hauling the snow away in dump trucks, there's simply no place to put it on these narrow side streets without literally burying every parked car.

Thought: while I know that this snowstorm(s) are not normal for our region, it really brings forward the need (regardless) to have a more sustainable city / community. I mean, some coworkers are honestly stuck at home due to bad roads, but they live miles away, where they can only get back to society by car.... (just a thought).

I had my first 100% successful ride on my commute to work today, although is coming down again....

I have co workers who have been without power since Friday. If their roads were clear, they could at least get out to go to a hotel, stay with friends, etc. But, some roads are still impassable there. (Maybe that's part of the reason that power is still out?)

...it really brings forward the need (regardless) to have a more sustainable city / community

Or, at least to have services closer, or something. I was thinking that I'm lucky enough to have 4 grocery stores within a mile of my apt., so it only (only!) took two hours to drive from my apt. to two of them. Some people are going to live farther out no matter what. But at least to have the option to have your work, basic services, and a way to get there all nearby would be nice.

88SM88 I rode a 36 mile loop from Carnegie-downtown-Brighton Heights-downtown-Carnegie and I was amazed by the disparity in what had been well plowed versus what hadn't been touched.

Reddan: Me too. Brighton Heights is a good case in point; the two main arteries (California and Brighton Rd) were in acceptable condition by Saturday evening, and were mostly clear by Sunday afternoon

Curious: Do these disparities work out to City of Pittsburgh vs non-City of Pittsburgh? I mean, other than main roads vs side roads.

That has been my impression from talking to others. I haven't left the city, myself.

I don't know who was doing the actual plowing, but Brighton Heights is part of the City.

A friend who lives in Cranberry Township has been very pleased with their snow management. Apparently, they went state of emergency very early, so that they could hire outside contractors to pick up the plowing slack without going through the usual bureaucracy.

A good friend lives in Murrysville, and he said it wasn't until later in the day on Sunday and early on Monday that his street got any real maintenance.

An acquaintence wanted to know if Luke had a clown and pony at his out of town birthday celebration.

I do remember reading that the city began pretreating streets on Friday afternoon- but my guess is that only is good for a small amount of snow.

If I had shoveled my driveway this morning, it would not have made much difference at this point.

Same for plowing on Friday evening. I trust those in charge have some idea of what they are doing but are just a bit overwhelmed by volume. Perhaps they will learn something from this experience.

Heh!

Ha ha. Who elected this guy anyway? Oh that's right. No one voted.

I just want to say that I beat rush hour traffic on foot (at hindered pace, even) for the first time in my life the other night. By quite a bit. Anyone else have that distinct pleasure?

I didn't try that recently, but when I had a night class at Pitt and worked in Robinson, one snowy rush hour I got off the bus when traffic slowed to a crawl -- the edge of Uptown, a bit past the Birmingham Bridge -- and walked to the Cathedral of Learning in maybe 30 minutes, much faster than any motorized transport. Only 14 of 40 students made it there on time, and the 13 others lived on campus.

To see/report road conditions online, go to http://www.cityzenmobile.com/howsmystreet/

I took the 61B from Regent Square to CMU this morning around 9am, and at times (Braddock to Beechwood, Schenley Dr to Beeler) the bus was far slower than walking.

Old timers say that the state of the roads in Pittsburgh is the worst they can recall in 50 years.

I don't understand why Ravenstahl never called on citizens to shovel the roads in front of their houses a little, themselves. Instead he basically told people to wait for the (nonexistent) plows to do it. Many people shoveled their driveways or dug out their cars, in the process creating huge piles in the road, and made the roads less passable. Halting sidewalk shoveling enforcement is insane. But I guess they'll enforce it in July...

I don't understand why Ravenstahl never called on citizens to shovel the roads in front of their houses a little, themselves.

Some folks in my neighborhood did this. One big issue was where to put the snow. And, of course, given our aging population, this isn't exactly a great plan. Enough reasonably healthy people suffer heart attacks while shoveling...

As for the sidewalk enforcement--I agree. Why did they halt that? Oh, I know...probably because the city couldn't manage to maintain the sidewalks they were responsible for.

I'm sure the City didn't ask people to shovel the streets because of liability issues. Not enforcing the sidewalk clearing laws also allows them to deflect criticism when they don't clear those things that are their responsibility. It's all politics.

The neighbors and I cleared off 1-1/2 streets with two spades and a snow shovel. It's a dead end, but the conditions are better than most. They can park in front of their house, which is down and to the right in the photo, I park to the immediate right of where the pic was taken. By the end of the week I should have enough cleared to park in front of my house which is down and to the left.