BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

That's pretty awesome.

Last year I was going down Shady and a young guy in a 3-series pulled out in front of my from Darlington. I proceeded to give him a polite hand gesture. When I stopped behind him at the light, he got out, walked towards me (as I started to contemplate my hand gesture) and he profusely apologized, saying he didn't realize how fast I was going. He then continued to tell me about how "rad" my "fixie" was. I commented on his clean E30 and we talked about bikes and cars through a whole light cycle (there wasn't anyone behind us).

Glad your intuition was working, salty.

@ Salty maybe the moral of the story is.... maybe we are making progress on car at a time. Maybe not all is lost. Maybe if we keep doing whats right live by example we can change the way they feel about us...... maybe

I mean, I'm glad I had a positive discussion with the guy. I'm glad I've learned to keep my cool and not flip-off/swear at people (usually). And, stuff like this just happens, on an unfortunately regular basis (close calls, not having a positive conversation with a driver).

What bugs me is when I have an especially close call like today, there's usually some element in the story where I noticed something subtle or otherwise just "got a feeling" of what was about to happen. That's certainly part of riding defensively, but it makes you realize how thin the line can be. What if there was a car behind me and I was looking over my shoulder at the crucial moment? It's the stuff you don't see or can't anticipate. And, I'm sure I knew it deep down but it's much easier to vilify the drivers (which, no doubt, people like the asshole on WA Blvd deserves), but even the ones with good intentions can't necessarily be trusted to do the right thing.

@ Salty also I'm glad you made it out ok, your right about the "feeling" and how things could of gone wrong, but not today

Wag more, bark less.

Blinkies are also good even when it's sunny & clear. Anything to give motorists a heads up given all the other distractions the poor sods have to contend with. If I didn't know what it's like to ride a bike, I wouldn't necessarily expect one to be coming at me carrying car speed. We need a "bikes can really go fast" / left cross PSA.

the other thing about bikes at "car speeds" is that smaller objects appear as though they will arrive later, even at the same speed. it's some quirk of human perception, but big SUVs look like they're going faster than, say, a scooter (edit: actually, i would guess it's because we measure motion by angular changes in our field of vision, and larger objects take up a greater arc sooner).

i'm not sure what the moral is, but the story reminds me of the difference in my perception and anticipation when i got in my last accident (~7 years ago) compared to now. that sort of sense you get is so honed right now, i just know when someone is going to turn in front of me, or cut me off.

then again, maybe it's a confirmation bias. but really, i've been riding pretty continuously since then, and i haven't been in an accident in about 7 years. i wonder how to provide that sense that i gained through experience to new riders.

my football coaches at cmu used to love yelling "head on a swivel!" i feel like i understand that more from biking than i ever might have otherwise.

Just as he could have done more to see you, you may be able to do more to be seen. I have been contemplating the thought of a "Cyclists behaving badly" thread to mention a few examples I have seen just this week. That is not to imply you were hard to see, but make a general point.

Well, I did not have my light on in broad daylight. I also didn't have my bright yellow jacket on considering it was 85 degrees. My T-shirt is black although the entire front has a big yellow/white design, and IIRC I was up on the hoods.

Sure, if I was lit up like a Christmas tree and wearing fluorescent clothing, maybe he would have seen me. I certainly can't disprove that. Maybe he never even turned his head in my direction and even if I was shining a giant laser beam directly at his head he still wouldn't have noticed.

I was definitely smack in the middle of the lane, there are no cars parking on that side for me to get "lost in the noise" (backdrop is trees and bushes) and the sun was in front of me IIRC. This was ~7:15 and sunset today was at 8:44.

I don't think I was doing anything unreasonable, and I doubt I'd do anything differently given the chance aside from maybe mounting a huge airhorn on my bike.

That wasn't necessarily my point.

Good write-up Salty, sounds like the voices in your head are working FOR you this time

FWIW, I had a lady knock me off my bike in bumper to bumper trafic last week and I had a neon yellow jersey on. She saw me, she just didn't give a rats-ass whether she hit me or not. So don't beat yourself up for having 'normal' clothes on.

Also, +1 for not flying the bird, it's a skill i'm still trying to aquire.

This situation reminds me of how spot on that cycling psa from england is: The awareness test. Won't give the spoiler for those who haven't seen it

This is, to some degree, why I don't get too wigged out about cyclists behaving badly in traffic (certainly not as wigged out as many people):

IF YOU ARE PISSING THEM OFF AT LEAST YOU KNOW THEY SEE YOU.

I'm not advocating dangerous behaviour, just saying, mature, properly dressed cyclists, riding according to the rules are the ones who have been hit and killed in the past year.

Glad you are okay, and although this is a sensitive topic right now, please know that most of us driving a car have no intention of hurting a biker.

I think the main problem is that we aren't trained to look out for a cyclist.

I was driving downtown sometime this year on a Saturday, and I remember slowly squeezing a cyclist into a truck. Nothing bad happened, but I clearly didn't see him and I didn't give him enough room. When I realized I stopped, turned back through the window and waved to him politely and mouthed to him that I was very sorry.

I don't have much experience on the other end of that, but it was a situation where I wasn't even thinking to look for cyclists on the road. My bad I guess, but now I am much more conscious of cyclists on the road. I never meant any harm, and it was a learning experience for me.

appreciate the honest perspective, italianblend. you are right, and despite all of the craziness that is par for the season, i think it's gotten way better here, for one because there are so many more cyclists on the roads providing more opportunities for "education." it's just a shame that sometimes this education can send someone to the hospital or worse.

That PSA is rad.

The driver in Salt's case has to be looking in order to see you. He was looking for a break in traffic, maybe glanced right to see if a car was coming and went for it. Happens to pedestrians all the time too. You did the right thing by preparing for it in the first place. I learned my lesson after I was in my accident.

Ok, ssdd, different result though. Red vw bug pulls out in front of me, after I slow down I give the "thumbs up", driver slams on their brakes in the middle of the street (maybe necessary, there was a moving truck partially blocking the lane), rolls down the window and starts cackling. I don't know what she said but it may have been the first time anyone has ever pulled out a "you people" in reference to me. All I said was "thanks for pulling out in front of me, I really appreciate it" a few times.

Maybe I'll just go put up a "no left turn" sign on murray. otherwise, I don't really know, I guess I can start using northumberland more or something. I don't really want to die there and I think its easily the most dangerous place I encounter on a daily basis. These two most recent incidents have just been especially close but people pull out in front of me there constantly. Plus right hooks going uphill. yet it looks so serene and innocuous...

From time to time I do get people pulling out in front of me making their left turn from Murray. Particularly if I'm signaling a left turn onto Murray.

Honestly, I think they do see me coming and treat me just like they would do if I was driving a car -- pull right out and force me to slam on my brakes. They are aggressively and intentionally refusing to yield.

I never get right hooks going uphill. Does this happen at Murray or at Shady?

I have been using Northumberland when I'm feeling pokey -- either Barnesdale to N'd or Deniston to N'd, depending.

It is a PITA in a car to turn left onto Wilkins from Murray. The sightlines are not great and depending on the time of day, there are seldom gaps in the traffic flow of cars. So I think car drivers get impatient/greedy or stressed at the cars waiting behind them in the same lane. Often at that intersection, to go left you feel like you have to wait for the gap then GO FOR IT.

I don't mean to justify the impulse of drivers there, but I think it is an extra dangerous intersection because of it. I'd love to see a stop sign on Wilkins as it crosses Murray. It would cause more rush hour backup but be considerably safer. It's also a bad spot to cross as a pedestrian for the same reasons. Considering it faces the entrance to Chatham, it could use some re-thinking.

psuedacris - that is true and exactly the problem. I'd rather see a no left turn sign on Murray than a stop sign on Wilkins. I pretty much *never* make a left there whether driving or riding - what's the point? Negley and Shady both have lights and unless you're going to Chatham or Murray Hill you're going through one of them anyways.

Lyle - people pass me going up the hill then turn right on Murray, but I guess it's no worse than any other intersection in that regard, and I'm going slow enough it's not a big problem. People pulling out in front of me is a bigger problem, even when going uphill. Shady isn't usually an issue for me since I stay to the left there in preparation for turning left on Beechwood.

@Edmonds: I thoroughly agree