The GAP near Pittsburgh might not be done 11/11/11, after all.
Since the announcement in October 2010 ( http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10290/1095960-455.stm ) that Sandcastle would allow the Great Allegheny Passage to share their road, planning on that section has reportedly proceeded smoothly.
Just downriver from there, under the Glenwood Bridge at Keystone Metals, the metal recycling facility, the challenges are greater. The landowners are cooperating with planning, from what I hear secondhand, but the construction will probably be expensive, as it will entail building the trail on the hillside away from the RR tracks.
The biggest problem is getting funding for this work. Some are predicting that acquiring federal funding for this could delay the completion of the Keystone Metals section of trail, so that it would not be ready in November 2011, as hoped, but perhaps a year later.
That would be a shame!
I hope they (we!) can figure out a way to make it happen on schedule. This trail is long overdue! It was supposed to be done in 2008 for Pittsburgh's 250th, remember?
How do you build on the hillside away from the RR tracks without crossing the tracks twice (unnecessarily)? I just went through here a few weeks ago (Jan 4), and there's no problem with space, horizontally, between tracks and their buildings and fence. Just drop some light gravel and git 'er done.
I recall informing a few folks of this back in 2008-2009. Keystone will give you some room, but you either need a large wall or an embankment to ensure the public is not harmed by, nor cause harm to CSX or Keystone's operations.
So who's the brash politician that will earmark funding for a bike/pedestrian bridge to somewhere in the wintry economic climate?
Maybe it will get funded by selling out to a gas well.
That's annoying.
@sloaps So who's the brash politician that will earmark funding for a bike/pedestrian bridge to somewhere in the wintry economic climate?
It's is a shame that all the trail does is let people get safely from one place to another without adding to pollution.
If it did something useful - like make a billionaire richer or maybe transport fracking chemicals to Ohiopyle Park - then maybe our governor would help us find the cash. Self-reliance and basic economic freedoms are what he's all about.
i have a shovel. i volunteer my services. to dig appropriate trenches or holes, of course, is what i mean.
see, if the governor gave enough tax breaks to keystone metals or csx, they could afford to pay for projects like this. that i'm sure is the real problem.
i'm serious about shoveling though. i actually really like digging.
Residents given training to spot drilling violations
Excerpt:
The presentation also went into reporting suspected violations and health hazards. Veronica Coptis of Mountain Watershed advised residents to watch for illegal dumping by trucks hauling polluted water.
Radio Voice:
Can't we let hard working, productive Americans do their jobs without being spied on by liberals?
Those libs are just trying to take away basic economic freedoms that are every American's rights. Where in the constitution does it say you can't poison streams?
The people whose ancestors paid for those mineral rights deserve a chance to get some return on their investment. Or their great-great-grandfather's investment, at least. That's what America is built on.
The evironmentalists really just want to take it all away from you. Aren't you tired of spending your whole paycheck at the gas pump?
Now these bearded, recumbent, horn-helmetted vegans want to increase your taxes just to spend your money away on a bike trail. A BIKE TRAIL!
Those Montour Trail folks may have the right idea. Governor, we can't mess with that trail! It carries petrochemicals! (Also, there's some bikers and hikers off on the side, but you can ignore them. Great, doing that already.)
I'm not clear on what "building the trail on the hillside away from the RR tracks" means exactly. What hillside?
As I recall, just to the north of the railroad track and its gravel, there's a sort of embankment for some of the 1000 foot distance to be covered (mostly toward the western end). It seems to be maybe six feet high, at most. Is that the hillside they mean? Moving some of that dirt if needed, and putting up fencing on both sides of the resulting clear area?
I can't imagine they're talking about routing the trail near the closest major hillside, which would involve crossing various railroad tracks and East Carson Street too. So where did they find this hill?
Is it possible they're talking about going to the river side of Keystone Metal? There's a lot of green space there, certainly enough for a trail, it could then jog back to the stub of Haysglen Street, and you're done. Doesn't look that difficult.
I think you're right about that "hill", Steven.
It seems to me that could be demolished and hauled away.
FWIW, Google Earth shows the Baldwin trail and the railroad at 731 feet elevation, most of Keystone at between 730 and 740 feet, but with a high point of 756 feet at a spot just north of the railroad's gravel path, and 150 feet east of the end of the Baldwin trail.
The higher ground that starts there runs east and north, gradually sloping down until by Haysglen Street and the bridge it's almost gone.
So it's not as flat as I thought, according to Google Earth, but I'm not sure I'd call it a hillside.
I will gladly lend a shovel as well too.
On a somewhat more serious interpretation of that, how hard would it actually be to get bikers to help out with trail construction? I realize unions are one of the biggest blockers, and that most of these jobs get bid out to contractors that want the whole project end to end. But it seems there are copious amounts of people on here that would love to 'donate' sweat equity, myself included, to see these things happen. Maybe that is just a pipe dream…
I don't think you can take the river from Keystone, don't they moor scrap barges there?
I believe the hill is an old stone faced railroad bridge abutment situated where the current trail ends. Remove that and you have adequate setback from the railroad - Keystone, on the other hand may request additional setback or a physical barrier to protect the public from their operations.
Whether $1, $1 Million or $10 Million, I wouldn't settle on "just a path", because knowing what we know about the heavy use of the trails which connect year long destinations, this trail link must require little maintenance, not prone to flooding or washouts in the Spring thaw and be accessible to a DPW truck with a plow.
If we settle on a four feet wide strip of #10 stone meandering along the soft, alluvial floodplain of the Mon, then we should not have requested a link from the beginning.
I'd help with a shovel, too.
20 folks with shovels would take 2 days to do what a bulldozer would do in 3 hours, though.
So we're talking about the area with the trees right?
I'm not a civil engineer (though my brother is!) but it seems like the right solution is to remove enough of the hill to allow for a 8-10ft path and a retaining wall to hold the rest of the hill up. A path raised above the level of the tracks to better separate the two.
"i'm serious about shoveling though. i actually really like digging."
The world needs ditch-diggers...
I really hope this convo does not devolve into paying someone $50K to study this for a year then issue a 100-page report that sits on someone's shelf for another year. Or two.
but stu, we need to understand how these changes will affect us. only through thorough study of the situation as a whole can we move forward in a manner which benefits us all.
Unless we pay off the governor, then he'll just let us do what we want. If only there were gas under that trail, or if it were a park or protected! Then it could be immediately developed without any studies.
@ejwme: if there were were gas under that trail, kiss it goodbye. They'd close that sucker down in a heartbeat.
Sloaps is correct. When I spoke of a hillside away from the RR tracks, I meant the "old stone faced railroad bridge abutment situated where the current trail ends" and the raised ground on which most of Keystone Metals sits, just north of the railroad tracks. This hill is 10 to 20 feet high.
Constructive actions we could take on this would include calling a county or state representative and letting them know that it's important that this project get expedited, or a letter to the editor of a newspaper, perhaps?
Jay Costa (State Senator) has secured $750k (who said earmarks are bad?). Allegheny County and private funds will match the grant, dollar for dollar, to achieve the estimated project costs of $1.5 Million for the section through Keystone Metals. For some reason the section through Sandcastle is also $1.5 Million.
After reading between the lines in the linked article, my guesses as to the costs would be:
A. They had to purchase easements for the trail from Keystone and Sandcastle. That cost is included in each of the 1.5M.
B. Since federal and state monies are involved they have to design and built the segments according to mandated federal and state requirements. Meeting those requirements usually runs up the cost of the project significantly.
After reading between the lines in the linked article, my guesses as to the costs would be:
A. They had to purchase easements for the trail from Keystone and Sandcastle. That cost is included in each of the 1.5M.
B. Since federal and state monies are involved they have to design and built the segments according to mandated federal and state requirements. Meeting those requirements usually runs up the cost of the project significantly.
After reading between the lines in the linked article, my guesses as to the costs would be:
A. They had to purchase easements for the trail from Keystone and Sandcastle. That cost is included in each of the 1.5M.
B. Since federal and state monies are involved they have to design and built the segments according to mandated federal and state requirements. Meeting those requirements usually runs up the cost of the project significantly.
After reading between the lines in the linked article, my guesses as to the costs would be:
A. They had to purchase easements for the trail from Keystone and Sandcastle. That cost is included in each of the 1.5M and would be considerable.
B. Since federal and state monies are involved they have to design and built the segments according to mandated federal and state requirements. Meeting those requirements usually runs up the cost of the project significantly.
isn't the streets run sinkhole that nobody wants to own or repair within the allegheny passage alignment?
I wonder what hardship Sandcastle is claiming for not repairing this culvert that is clearly on their property?
The trail may run between the sinkhole and the train tracks. As I recall, there's some room there.
Maybe the county owns the culvert, even if Sandcastle owns the land on top? Just because something's on their property doesn't necessarily mean it's their responsibility to repair.
Ownership of utilities on private land is debatable, much as hazards on private land affecting the public space. If there is no right-of-way easement, then it's sandcastle's problem.
uh, so a trail of national interest will be running between live train tracks and an unrepair sink hole as it enters our fair city?
I know Pittsburgh's not that great at putting our best foot forward, but do we have to show off our webbed extra toes? Is the sink hole at least "stable"?
sinkhole = tourist trap
work has begun when I was going home from the friday flock ride to OTB I went past the construction next to the tracks.
looks interesting.
bwahahahahahahahaha It only took me an hour or so, but I finally got it RK 
"uh, so a trail of national interest will be running between live train tracks and an unrepair sink hole as it enters our fair city?"
Only the first time it enters our fair city. Cyclists get to enter Pittsburgh twice, once right at the sinkhole, then leaving Pittsburgh after about half a mile and entering Baldwin Borough (as they reach the current trail segment past Keystone), and then reentering our fair(ly odd) city just south of the Becks Run intersection.
Maybe we need a Thanks For Visiting Pittsburgh Come Back Soon sign, as they pass Keystone westbound. Just to mess with folks.
And I'm only guessing about the sinkhole routing. They might go around (between the sinkhole and the rest of the parking lot), or even do something wacky like repair the sinkhole first.
They planned on finishing the trail by 11/11/11.They still don't even have, from the end of the jail trail down to the wharf finished, the wharf to the point finished,Marcegallus to the condominiums finished,The Waterfront at the Homestead Bridge to the Glenwood Bridge finished,and I'm not even sure we'll have The Glenwood Bridge to Sandcastle finished by this year!! What a total disappointment!
"They" first said it would be finished... Long ago. Then 9.9.09... now it's 11.11.11, and that is pretty doubtful realistically.
I think the connection (on the narrow sidewalk) between the end of the trail by the Homestead Bridge and the condos at the Waterfront is considered "done" no matter how lackluster it actually is. Not sure about that, I'm not of the opinion that a sidewalk with a few arrows is a bike trail, but whatever. In the grand scheme of things once it is connected through Sandcastle to the Southside trail it is as good as done in my book.
Sandcastle to Keystone Metals
Keystone Metals to Baldwin Trail
These two projects seem to have just got funded. I've ridden my bike through there fairly often recently; it's passable (if the American Water project is open).
Marcegallus to the Condos. I'm told that by next summer, jersey barriers will separate the sidewalk from the cars, and that works for me.
Jail trail to Mon-Whorf Trail
Whorf Trail to Point State Park
Justifying these two was always a stretch. They're not necessary for the Pgh-DC connection - you can ride Ft.Pitt bridge, Station Square, SouthSide, etc - but they were designated as "essential / required" in order to get funding. I'm OK with that.
Although there's lots still to do, they're making progress, and it's all good.
We've got governments at every level dealing with severe financial issues, yet the trail folks are still building new trail every year. That's extraordinary.
(BTW: it's spelled wharf.)
We've got governments at every level dealing with severe financial issues, yet the trail folks are still building new trail every year. That's extraordinary.
What he said.
What Dan said he said, I say too. Or +1. Or whatever.
so "when" the economy picks up, that will mean trail building will pick up comparably, yes? Yay!
don't count on that if this abomination of a transportation bill goes through in anything like its current form. the time to contact your congresscritters is now.
