BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

You might get a lot of bang for your buck by switching to slightly narrower tires with a smoother tread?

Fall is excellent bike buying season, usually good deals. About how much do you want to spend, and how tall are you? If I spot any great deals I can point you to them.

When I decided to start bike commuting a couple of years ago, I bought a Trek 7-series hybrid and I loved it (still do, in fact). I'm a fat guy so I appreciated the sense of stability I got from it; I had a rack and fenders installed and typically run it with two panniers. And the gearing is low enough that the hills on my commute are entirely doable.

I don't ride the hybrid so much anymore but I took it with me on a recent vacation and remembered how much I like it.

Pseudacris - I agree that slicks would be quicker, but of my 21 avaiable gears, I ride in 19, 20, and 21. Unfortunately, I also bought new tires last September and they are a bit knobby.

edmonds59 - I am 5'11, medium build about 170lbs. My budget is pretty open, I want to get a bike that will last, so my ceiling is probably $700. Looks like the SUB line and Treks are around that range....right?

@Pseudacris and anyone else - has anyone had much experience with the idea of putting narrower, smoother tires on a mountain bike? I am thinking about doing this with my Trek 3700 mountain bike and wondered how useful others have found this modification.

Thanks!

Go to thick bikes on the south side. Tell them what you need a bike for and what your price range is. They have new and used bikes there. I have heard that trek can be kinda overpriced for what you get.

This below is almost identical to my current commuter, old rigid mtn bike retrofitted to commuter. They are awesome. I gave this one away to a coworker to get them riding, but then I missed it desperately and had to build another. The whole setup in the pic is about $150 all in (via CL). It is very nearly the first one I'll reach for.

edmonds59 - that is a nice ride. I love the classic look and the idea of reusing what I already have.

Did you change the chain rings and casette? Everyone has told me that my gearing is the issue...I figured by the time I got new gears and components, I might as well just buy a new bike.

Same drivetrain. Tore it down to the frame, re-greased everything, changed tires and h-bars, added rack and fenders. I've been really lucky finding barely used mtn bikes cheap. In the highest gear, if I'm trying to run with traffic, I spin out at about 25 mph with the stock gearing. If that's an issue, yeah, you prob don't want to go this route.

Thanks for the advice edmonds59. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I currently spin out around 21mph, so I think I have a gearing issue....oh well, still fun to ride it and will keep doing so until I find another!

$700 will get you a whole lot of bike. and if you've got the money to spend, it probably doesn't make sense to upgrade the components of a department store frame. it's a pretty special feat that it lasted 16 years (was it used that whole time?).

if commuting and leisurely paced fun rides are your primary usage plans, my advice is to shop around and try out as many different things as you can, get something that fits right and feels right, and make sure you get tires at least 28mm across, on a bike that can fit fenders and a rack. other than that, watch out how much extra you're spending on things like disc brakes, a carbon fork, or some fancy new (and unproven) shifting system. those things are cool, but often unnecessary, and can drive up the price. oh, and don't get a bike with a shock fork.

>@Pseudacris and anyone else - has anyone

>had much experience with the idea of

>putting narrower, smoother tires on a

>mountain bike? I am thinking about doing

>this with my Trek 3700 mountain bike and

>wondered how useful others have found

>this modification.

I've done it with our Raleigh tandem, going from 26x1.95 to 26x1.5 and then back. The smaller tire gives a rougher ride, and because the circumference is slightly smaller, you actually go a little slower for a given gear and cadence. Currently we're using a 26x1.95 with a smooth center section.

I'd also add that depending on what you're trying to do and whether or not you do it yourself, getting a rack, fenders, panniers, and lights could easily be another $200 (there's a huge price range in panniers and lights)

As for the mountain bike conversion, my understanding is that hybrids are basically hard-tails with smooth tires, no? (cburch to the rescue)

HiddenVariable - thanks for the info, you echo a lot of good advice that I have received. Those "extras" really do drive up the cost. I am looking at non-shock forks only. No, my Nishiki spent about 10 years in the parent's shed collecting dust. The tires had dry rotted...lol

Pierce - You are correct. A big part of this is a bike that will fit my current rack and fenders, I have some cash tied up in all that stuff, so I am not going to re-buy it all.

@TonyP of my 21 avaiable gears, I ride in 19, 20, and 21.

You only use your three highest gears?

Typically, the big advantage of Edmund's kind of rigid mountain bike setup is the low gears involved.

If I understand correctly, you don't use the lower gears at all. Do you have hills? Are you seriously athletic?

For me, spinning out at 21 mph would be a issue on many of the long hills, but not nearly the issue I would face with not having a low enough gear.

Are you sure your deraileur is actually getting to your highest gear? When my dereaileur goes out of adjustment, it often fails to go to the highest gear. That alone would boost 21 mph to 24 or 25 mph before spinning out and make it far less an issue.

Mick, I really do only ride in the top 3 maybe 4 gears. I am not overly athletic, and my commute is 98% flat. I ride the Clairton connector to the Steel Valley trail...only a few minor "bump hills" in Glassport.

I average about 15mph in 20th gear. My lowest chain ring is a joke. I could pull a house up Mt. Washington.

Tony, come to Flock. I think people will allow you to try a bike while waiting for the start. I am going to bring my son in law for this ride.

Some similar bikes to the Scott SUB: Trek (fx), Specialized(sirrus), Kona (Dew), Cannondale (Quick), Marin (Sausalito), Jamis (coda), GT (Tachyon), Fuji (Absolute), Raleigh (Misceo/Cadent), Felt Speed, Giant (Rapid)...

I'm sure that I missed a bunch as I just grabbed this list from an old email, but it gives you some other things to consider.

Personally, I think that the Jamis Coda is the best deal in the class but that depends on if you want a steel frame or aluminum.

If you go with a Trek, the 7.3FX is the best bang for the buck... as the numbers go up from there, the models get progressively closer to road-bike gearing and components. The 7.1 and 7.2 are on the cheaper end.

The SUB isn't a bad bike, I saw a few that were dirt cheap on REI clearance last fall.

"Did you change the chain rings and casette? Everyone has told me that my gearing is the issue...I figured by the time I got new gears and components, I might as well just buy a new bike."

The cassette doesn't matter so much as the overal range will be larger on a mountain bike; road bikes have a smaller jump between each gear.

You might be able to go as high as a 48 tooth front gear without changing anything else (besides the chain and possibly the rear derailleur if you don't already have a long-reach version). Otherwise you'd need to replace the whole crank assembly. You should be able to get one cheap, I'm sure that a lot of us have one or two just sitting around. I'm sure that Thick bikes probably has a bunch of old ones laying around... I'd start there and see what they can set you up with on the cheap.

"As for the mountain bike conversion, my understanding is that hybrids are basically hard-tails with smooth tires, no?"

@Pierce, generally speaking... yes.

Geometry is really going to vary by brand and which models share frames. Older mountain bikes tend to have the rigid fork which I think is preferable to shocks. Of course, there is also the difference in wheel diameter (unless the mtb is a 29er). Besides that, hybrids are for the most part mtb components, but again it varies from one brand to another.

Newer hybrids seem to be moving closer to road bike geometry and are being marketed as "exercise bikes" but with the flat-handlebars; they are also commonly referred to as "flat bar road bikes."

On a side note, if you pick up any bar ends, I recommend the Origin 8. I saw a pair at a shop recently and they are pretty much identical to the Ergon bar ends (I assume they are being made on the same production line) at half the price.

TonyP, the more I'm hearing, if you're looking at commuting on roads, not necessarily trails, and you're looking at regularly going 20+ mph, and you have the $, go for a high performance flat bar road bike, like headloss mentioned, not a hybrid. Those things can rock. Still make sure it can take a rack and fenders, and can take tires up to about 32mm. Seems like that's your direction.

Mikhail - a flock ride is on my "to do" list. I would love to meet some of the folks who have been so helpful here. I just always have something planned or a daughter's soccer practice/game to coach.

headloss - awesome advice, I would have never considered all of thos bikes. I got lots of research to do.

edmonds59 - they are now on the "to be considered" list.

man, this board is awesome....thank you everyone!

Perhaps check out the bikes direct touring bikes. Example: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/cafe_noir.htm

Edmonds, good catch! I mentioned it, but I really should have emphasized the high performance given what Tony is looking for.

Tony, good luck. If I see any good deals I'll let you know.

brybot, I'm not sure abou that recommendation. Sometimes bikesdirect has a great deal but that particular motobecane has a dated frame with the 1" headtube and no name hubs/rims with 28 spokes... $700 is way to much considering this. The Sprint is ok for $500 or the GT Tachyon for $800 (sold out) are decent choices. Still, I think it's best to shop local as these aren't insanely good prices although they are probably about as good as Tony will find buying new.

@headloss: You might be able to go as high as a 48 tooth front gear without changing anything else (besides the chain and possibly the rear derailleur if you don't already have a long-reach version).

nitpick alert! a larger chain ring is not going to necessitate a longer reach rear derailleur. a smaller one would, to take up the extra (number of big ring teeth) - (number of small ring teeth) links of slack in the chain.

also: i second headloss's recommendation of the jamis coda. it's what i bought my special lady friend last summer (the female-specific version), and she loves it. plus, we got 15% with a bike pittsburgh membership at biketek, so you can't beat that.

"nitpick alert! a larger chain ring is not going to necessitate a longer reach rear derailleur. a smaller one would, to take up the extra (number of big ring teeth) - (number of small ring teeth) links of slack in the chain."

Whoops!

Thank's for noticing that.

not a nitpick at all... I made a stupid

*actually, I made two stupids...

@Tony, I just reread your initial post and caught the part about two loaded panniers. Make sure that what ever you get has at least 32 spokes. You might even want to set aside some extra cash for a full on touring wheel depending on your weight and how much you plan to carry (36+ spokes, Shimano LXorXT hub, and most likely one of the following rims: Velocity Dyad, Velocity Fusion, Salsa Delgado, Mavic A719, or DT Swiss TK 540... which can be had for about $200 prebuilt; my back wheel is now worth more than my kona dew LOL).

headloss - those sound like some expensive sweet wheels...if my 16 yar old Dick's Sporting Goods monster can handle my bags, I am pretty confident most new ones will be ok.

thanks for the tip!

@HiddenVariable nitpick alert! a larger chain ring is not going to necessitate a longer reach rear derailleur.

It could. If you change only big chainring and leave intact smaller one. Let say you had tripple 30-39-44. And went to 30-39-53. You have to increase chain lenght and somehow to take up extra slack.

+1 mikhail

Yup. Rear derailleurs are labelled with a max cassette size and a max tooth capacity for a reason. Bigger gap between front rings = longer cage.

yeah, pwned. oops! good call, mikhail.

headloss - that Specialized Sirrus looks pretty awesome. I think I am starting to lean away from the standard hybrid as you mentioned.

One thing I need some advice on....disc brakes....I kinda wanted them, as there are a ton of stop signs I deal with and I like the control. Are they worth it?

You have to consider all pros and contras. Disc brakes are much stronger (it's easier to go over the bar). So you have to learn how to modulate them. And they requires a little bit more mechanical skills in terms of servicing them. And someone mentioned on the board winter riding with a lot of salt on roads make them less happier.

I don't think disc brakes are that big of a deal. How much do you want to ride in rain and ice?

This looks kind of nice. But Lower Burrl is out past East Bumpoke.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/bik/3209027097.html

Well, if this is a commuter then it's going to be rain. And if we are talking about ice then appropriate tires (possibly studded) should be discussed also since without good tires breaks are useless on ice.

Tabby - it seems to rain 60% of the time I bike commute. So I want to be confident in my stopping power. I have not had any bad experiences with my rim brakes, other than horrible squeaking and the annoying shaking from my wheels being out of true.

Mikhail - I agree on the tires...I do not think I am ready for a full winter commute, but last winter was like fall the whole time.

edmonds59 - I never considered Redline. That is a nice ride, but I am not crazy about the drop bars...guess I could always change them....

I am headed out this weekend to do some test rides. So far the SUB and Specialized are on the short list.

Changing drop bars that have brake/shifters is a PITA, don't even think about it.

Modern road brakes on new straight machined sidewall rims are pretty darn good. And you can always upgrade pads as well for cheap.

@TonyP Drop bars gives you a 5 different had positions (3 on top -- break hoods, top bar almost where drops starts, close to center; 2 in drops at the very bottom or closer to breaks). More then anything else. one of the reasons why many randonneurs prefer drop bars. You still can have upright position with drop bars.

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like I do not need to sweat the disc brakes...kinda glad since the whole cable vs. fluid filled is another discussion.

Maybe I need to try drop bars again. I had some bad experiences in the distant past with them. I never felt like I was in control, think that is why I got a "mountain" style bike.

TonyP Disc brakes could be cable ones or hydrolic ones. Hydrolic ones are more complex in servicing, more powerful and more sensitive to the outside temperature, and usually much more expensive.

Test rode the Cannondale Quick tonight and now I am obsessed with it. Maybe it is the lime green Quick 5, or the fact that my current ride is so lame....either way it was hard to walk out to consider other rides......

We've been talking a lot about brakes on this thread recently. Includes several suggestions on good brake pads.

From my POV, I would get the wheels trued first, so you can stop smoothly and not wear down brake pads with occasional rub from an out-of-true wheel.

There was a Cannondale Quick on craigslist.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/bik/3213698295.html

This thread has me thinking about getting a new bike. Nah, just kidding, I'm always thinking about getting a new bike.

Rice Rocket - thank you, but it is a medium and I need a large...at least that is what I have been told.

Rode the Scott SUB 40 and liked it a lot....tough decision.....

In case anyone is interested, I did get the Scott SUB 40 over the weekend. It has been an amazing upgrade. Thank you for all of your advice!

Woohoo!

+1^

Shameless promotion for Big Bang Bikes as well. Great customer service for all my stupid questions, and a great deal on a sweet bike.

Congrats! Rest assured that you did it the right way, by trying out more than one bike... you know that you ended up with a bike that you want!

Big Bang isn't bad, a bit out of the way, but I like the shop. I first heard about them here: http://www.bicycleretailer.com/resource-categories/top-100 b/c I was familiar with some of the other shops on the list.