BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Gah! How am I going to leave home early enough to try out my new French cafe AND cross into town to be counted by 9:00 am?!? might. have. to. wait. :(

@edmonds, didn't the French pretty much invent Brunch?

You're gonna miss me because I get to work at 6am!

Of course, I'm developing a nasty cold. Gah! If I can get the kids to babysitter in the morning I'll muddle my way in. Probably at about 12mph.

I don't know about brunch, I know they're kind of co-inventors of the "nooner", which I think is a great idea, but that's a different discussion. Through a miracle of serendipity, my daughter is getting picked up 20 minutes earlier than usual for school! whoo-hoo! Both! Usually happens the other way for me.

I saw one counter at Point State Park, and one at the trail by the Convention Center. Of course, in my state of early morning awareness, it did not register who they were until I got here, or I would have said hello!

It was way too empty today, jail trail 8:40ish. I checked when I got in and the forecast had turned toward a likelihood of rain in the afternoon. Really a shame we couldn't have had the count yesterday. I hope to be surprised with a big number anyway. This is just the first of hopefully many such counts, right?

Rain in the forecast for today? Isn't that every day in Pittsburgh between Memorial day and labor day? From what I remember is that it was supposed to rain all weekend. I didn't get wet at all. I trust the local weather forecast about as much as I trust my horoscope. I do keep a rain jacket in my messenger bag nearly all the time though, just in case.

I don't check the forecast generally. I have backup. In summer I don't even use it unless there's a rare, pounding rain. I'm going to sweat anyway, so light rain can be quite nice. But I did notice a huge difference on the jail trail vs. the couple days prior. Now granted, a few minutes on the jail trail (and I wasn't cat6ing in so relative speed was low) is not at all a meaningful sample, it was just so striking. Anyways, hopefully this is just the first of many. It will be interesting to see how the numbers vary with weather/seasons.

I went through the Point State Park portal at 8:58 and I didn't see any counters. I fear that I may not have made it into the count!!! And I had to rush my breakfast to make it by that time! Noooo!

I counted Stu at 8:02 on 9th Street Bridge. Who cares about rain when it is warm anyway?

Actually it felt just a mite chilly when I left, but I know from experience that that's a good thing. Two miles down the road, I was fine. I think I got counted twice. Saw @P-Rob as noted above, but I think I also saw @TeamDecaf on the trail near the 40th St Bridge. If I weren't in such an all-fired hurry this morning, I considered making a quick bus trip out just to come back in another way, but naaah, I figured my double will count for someone being missed.

Done. Everyone (except three -- two before I got to spot and one entered HMB from 2nd and I saw him too late) who passed HMB between 7:12 and 9:01 has been photographed. All directions EFT Inbound, EFT outbound, HMB-EFT inbound, HMB-EFT outbond, EFT HMB Inbound, EFT-HMB outbound, 2nd inbound, Hazelwood trail to 2nd or Technology, 2nd to HMB cross or 2nd to HMB to EFT. Sarah will decide if to share photos.

Yes, there are a couple of ways that a person could get counted twice. We'll be masssaging the data to take the obvious ones into account. But, there are probably a few people who slipped through the cracks as well, riding back alleys or ???? @Edmonds -- consider yourself counted. Our volunteer at Point State Park had to leave a couple minutes early to get to her job on time, but I can add you into the count.

Aaah, thx. So the enormous fresh crispy croissant with scrambled eggs, chevre and potatoes was not my undoing.

Presumably we have the raw count from all 14 locations? Presumably total screening dups will still be fairly close to the raw numbers.

I counted 110 riders over the two hour period while stationed at the Southside end of the Hot Metal Bridge. There was one guy going to D.C. solo, and three others going in a group! Didn't expect that.

i rode in the eliza this morning around 7:30 to grant st. coming from oakland I went down bates & got on at the wood ramp a block down on 2nd ave. not sure if i saw anybody counting or not though. but i could have jsut missed the countee as i was running late.

@Pbeaves - you should have been counted somewhere near Golden Triangle Bike Rental. You definitely in the right time window. What's it like riding Bates to the trail? Do you do that outbound too?

I do it outbound... on the sidewalk. No fun, but then again I'm not a fan of Greenfield either, either in-lane or on the sidewalk, and I've found that the fact that it's about half a mile more direct and avoids the 2nd ave or jersey barrier dipsidoodle means it's a time saver even though I can use more road on the Greenfield centered. The stupid part that would be so easy to fix is the absence of ADA curb cuts where Bates intersects the ramp coming up from the parkway. Forces you to ride against traffic for a sec or get off the bike. Would also be nice if there were some signage coming up from the parkway that there's a crossing. Nearly universally, they all pull forward as much as possible and eat any space that isn't the downhill lane. Dunno, maybe I'm being too optimistic thinking a sign might help that. Uphill bike lanes are of course the real answer.

byogman wrote:Forces you to ride against traffic for a sec or get off the bike.

Ben, Up or down -- get off/to trail at wooden rump as Paul did, ride on a sidewalk along trail and you don't need to ride against traffic or get off the bike.

Having lived in south oaklin for a few years, i've gotten used to riding it and Bates isn't too bad, but y.m.m.v. generally I'll take the lane, unless there is stopped traffic , then i'll hop on the sidewalk (as i am impatient). Once I hit Second ave, i make the right & use the sidewalk to get to the ramp @ the next light, then its a straight shot to grant st. outbound can vary... if im in the mood to ride, i usually cross ft pitt / smithfeild bridges & go along southside to hot metal then out to the Eliza parking lot to Panther Hollow for the extra miles. if i'm heading straight home I'll go out the trail to the Bates overpass then hop off the trail @ the trees & ride down the embankment & then sidewalk climb up Bates. i dont take the lane up because there's a bit of a blind corner & a freeway off ramp, i don't trust those speeding buggers. there is also a set of stairs that lead to a couple blocks from my apt, and i have been known to shoulder the bike and climb those too. in general: down bates is fun, up bates is not.

So, this (or maybe two different things) are being described in fairly different ways, and I'm not clear where to look for them. More detail, cell phone pic, or PM to share phone numbers? Would be much appreciated. Changing gears back to the count... we've got one raw report (albeit a very cool one) out of 14. The rest?

Not as many as I assumed would be riding this route - Millvale Park Trailhead near the 40th street bridge - 51 riders, only 5 female, 11 of the total without helmets. A dozen or so walkers/joggers.

data will trickle in over next day or two. volunteers have already messed with work schedules enuf for one day in doing counts. will scan/fax/transcribe data and get it to me on their own time tonight or tomorrow. while it is hard to be patient, i've learned the pattern over time. i will post a full summary/raw data asap...

Mikhail wrote:

byogman wrote:Forces you to ride against traffic for a sec or get off the bike.

Up or down — get off/to trail at wooden ramp as Paul did, ride on a sidewalk along trail and you don’t need to ride against traffic or get off the bike.

Y'all are talking about two different places. Mikhail is referring to getting from the EFT to Bates. BYogman is referring to getting up Bates from Second--where you cross the ramp from the IB Parkway, there is no curbcut, so either you have to jump down a curb, across the intersection, and up the other curb, or take a driveway below the intersection, ride 10-20 yards or so into the face of 30+ mph traffic (not to mention Parkway drivers who aren't looking for bike traffic), then hop back on the sidewalk at another driveway ten feet above the intersection.

buffalo buffalo wrote:BYogman is referring to getting up Bates from Second–where you cross the ramp from the IB Parkway, there is no curbcut, so either you have to jump down a curb, across the intersection, and up the other curb, or take a driveway below the intersection, ride 10-20 yards or so into the face of 30+ mph traffic

You don't need to do it if you follow the way I described. Even coming from HMB to second, stay on sidewalk, cross technology, cross 2nd to get on sidewalk again and go up. I was talking about:

pbeaves wrote: there is also a set of stairs that lead to a couple blocks from my apt, and i have been known to shoulder the bike and climb those too. in general: down bates is fun, up bates is not.

I 311'ed the crosswalk for those steps & they were recently repainted, the "Frazier steps". Been using them a lot lately to climb directly into South Oakland. Crosswalk could use a sign, maybe with some flashing lights to indicate the presence of a crosswalk. Vehicles bomb down that blind curve of Bates, as can be seen by the perpetually bent up metal guardrail in front of that house on the corner.

Mikhail wrote:Even coming from HMB to second, stay on sidewalk, cross technology, cross 2nd to get on sidewalk again and go up.

But Byogman is talking about going up Bates, 500 feet or so above second avenue, where it crosses the offramp from the inbound Parkway: http://goo.gl/maps/70ugX

buffalo buffalo wrote:

Mikhail wrote:Even coming from HMB to second, stay on sidewalk, cross technology, cross 2nd to get on sidewalk again and go up.

But Byogman is talking about going up Bates, 500 feet or so above second avenue, where it crosses the offramp from the inbound Parkway: http://goo.gl/maps/70ugX

Got it. I never get off bike there or rode against traffic. Speed it's pretty low and it's easy to pull up front wheel and rear shortly after. I guess it's a reason I was scratching my head trying to understand why you need to get off bike. Sorry.

Mikhail wrote:I never get off bike

CORN FED: MORNING ROUTINE from Scott Harris on Vimeo

Benzo wrote:

Mikhail wrote:I never get off bike

CORN FED: MORNING ROUTINE from Scott Harris on Vimeo

Well, there are things I am willing to learn. :) Track stand is one of them. :) While SAGing PASA drive I talked to unicyclemike from my car. And Mike did this track stand every time we talked. The another thing I want to learn is jump over some holes, dead animal, etc -- this one I saw while riding with Jacob. Distant future -- ride my bike on a rear wheel. :) Less distant future -- buy a MTB bike and go with cburch to learn single track stuff.

Marko82 - 110 riders in 2 hours there is more than I would've thought, even if it is a high bike-traffic area. Cool to know! Kinda surprised but not surprised about the GAP riders. The security guard at the Waterfront says he runs into GAP riders coming through at 2 and 3 a.m. on the trail. THAT I will never understand.

110 riders is equivalent to three 40-foot buses loaded to standing. It might be interesting to stand on the Jail Trail at 5pm and see how long it takes for 110 cars to go by on the Parkway, outbound.

I was a little disappointed with that number honestly. It wouldn't take long to see 110 cars go by on the parkway. However, given the multiplier on highway cost vs. the cost of a good trail, I'm guessing the $ annual upkeep / vs. vehicle flow rate would work out lower for the bike trail. And unlike the parkway, the jail trail can accommodate a lot more traffic with the existing infrastructure.

Raw total numbers at Point state park- total 65 cyclists Male w/ helmet 32, exposed head 17 Female w/ 8 8 one female on recumbent, and one male had helmet slung from handlebars. I also saw 102 pedestrains, not counting the 45 from CAPA who walked over to the park for their morning recreational activities (gym class?), which some days includes bicycles. I did start maybe a few minutes before 7 am, so I could count the one car I followed into the park. I was there until a few minutes after 9 on my watch, but suspect is was a few minutes fast.

One day on a ride to work I tried to calculate in my head how many cars it took to stack up from the West End Circle up Noblestown Rd. It was astoundingly few. 1 mi. = 5,280 ft, 1 car = 18' avg. + 4'+- space = 22'. 1 mi. = 240 cars +- in traffic.

What also surprised me at the HMB was how steady the bike riders were. I think the biggest gap between riders was maybe 5 minutes. It was just a good steady stream of solo riders with an occasional group of two or three riders. Edit to add graph:

Well, this is from my e-mail to Sarah: Got a little bit later around 7:08. Took another 4 minutes to find a perfect spot at EFT-HMB ramp. Hazelwood Trail -- two incoming. One at 8:13, another at 8:46. Both ended up at ThermoFisher/UPMC building. One guy biked on a sidewalk of 2nd at 8:40 and also ended up at Technology. All three males. Last one without helmet. From 2nd to HMB (as far as I can tell all of them came Bates -- one guy from Bates to Technology): 9:02 1 MH 1FH 8:48 1FH -- crossed HMB 8:40 1MH crossed HMB 8:18 1M crossed HMB 7:38 1MH -- don't have a picture, caught it when he was mid HMB EFT-HMB-ThermoFisher(or Technology): 8:51 MH 8:47 1MH HMB-2nd 8:21 1MH to Bates 8:07 1M I took 164 pictures. I'll upload them as soon as I get home so you can judge on time, gender, helmets, directions. all pictures have timestamps (2 minutes ahead of real time). Some pictures show conditions of hazelwood Trail and 2nd inbound (completely non rideable -- two lanes full of cars from bates to HMB and all way up to RR bridge underpass. Interestengly without time splitting (pictures have them) Other statistics (most of it should be caught by counter at EFT in downtown): EFT Inbound (Not ending up at HMB): MH -- 34 M -- 7 FH -- 8 F -- 2 EFT Outbound (Not ending up at HMB): MH -- 6 HMB to EFT Inbound: MH -- 11 FH -- 4 This one is not caught by EFT downtown counter -- EFT Inbound to HMB and cross it: MH -- 33 M -- 3 FH -- 9 F -- 2 1 MH got to 2nd Probably pictures will give more exact numbers. PS 154 pictures. I counted it wrong