BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Sickening news, I hope the cyclist is ok.

Oh geez. Hope cyclist is ok.

(And thanks for the perspective on the dynamic at that intersection, quizbot. I've been having trouble "getting" the risk there, but your description nailed it. Now I get it...)

Oh no

Stopped by the intersection this morning to try to find someone who may have seen anything... spoke with some workers who were around when it happened.

Disclaimer: all of this is unofficial & unverified. Cyclist coming down Liberty inbound. Car coming off the Herron Ave. bridge hits the cyclist in the intersection (car headed onto Ligonier). No idea who had green/yellow/red lights. Driver stopped & waited for police. Cyclist injured, but not life threatening. Was unconscious for a few minutes.

Couldn't find anything in the police blotter for Thursday.

I've been doing the same as quizbot inbound lately. I hate that road.

We are trying to get our hands on the police report. Thanks for the info Dave

hope the cyclist is doing well.

I can't help but comparing these accidents to the fatal ones in the suburbs from the past few years, and pondering the differences not just in the physics of the incidents, but in the reaction to the incidents (from the locals and in-charges).

I don't feel like I can draw any meaningful conclusions.

Saw a pickup on a flatbed on outbound Herron Ave bridge and 2 cop units here tonight on the way home around 6pm. Outbound 28 detour traffic trying to make the left from Liberty to Ligonier invariably gridlocks the intersection by trying to squeeze into the tail end of Ligonier. Horrible intersection for everyone.

To reiterate an earlier point: outbound Liberty traffic trying to make the left onto Ligonier should have a solid red whenever inbound Liberty has green, period.

I take the jail trail around to the point to go downtown. I want nothing to do with liberty or penn most of the time.

+1 quizbot. But I'm not sure that would have prevented the first wreck since I suspect the driver was impaired.

Liberty is an established bike corridor, definitely one of the longest standing bike lanes in the city. Usage is only increasing. We shouldn't be afraid to ride there.

I rarely take Penn. Neither are great with cross street traffic threats... at least on Liberty you have a bit more room to compensate for motorist obliviousness if necessary.

@marko: couldn't hurt though. Even if impaired, the driver may have instinctually stopped for the red if it were there.

Drivers routinely pull to the right into the bike lane and around left turning cars going outbound. They don't look. I believe "do not pass" signs would be helpful.

I take liberty once every 3 or 4 months and EVERY TIME I nearly get hit by motorists coming off of the Bloomfield bridge. They make eye contact with me and fail to yield. I have to hit my brakes going up a hill to avoid being hit. I think there are safer routes.

If I had the leisure of time on my commute, I might ride down to the jail trail, but even that's not ideal. Negley to Ellsworth sucks, Ellsworth isn't that charming either. Taking Stanton over & down to Butler would just be asking for trouble on Butler. The planned Lawrenceville greenway down to the Strip from the zoo doesn't exist. I'm open to alternate suggestions.

Yeah, I usually end up riding Penn if I'm going from my office, or Liberty otherwise.

Actually, looking at the map, going through Polish Hill via Melwood->Dobson->Brereton->28th is not as out of the way as I might have expected - from Bakery Square to Penn and 28th it's 3.9mi (via Baum or Centre) vs 3.5mi going straight down Penn.

But, I agree with the sentiment we shouldn't have to be afraid to ride down either Liberty or Penn.

Oh I totally agree. I would love for the bike lanes and preferred bike route to be safe, but it isn't.

Because I go to the north side, it only takes me 20 mins longer to go around and use the jail trail than to take liberty or penn..

I really don't know of a better way to get to the strip or downtown from the east end other than the routes mentioned. Polish hill is a good alternative. Forget butler. I used to take that at 5am, but still had several close calls. At that time, traffic is very light, but that means that motorists coming from side streets roll stop signs and don't look before turning onto butler.

If you're coming down Stanton you can just hop over to Hatfield from Butler @50th street (just a few feet past intersection w/ Stanton) and roll down to 44th on Hatfield traffic-free. Then it's a short zig-zag up to Willow which you follow until it ends, then left and onto the 40th St Bridge walkway, across the river and down the new ramp to MIllvale park/NorthShore Trail the rest of the way in.

Or if you want to go downtown/Strip do the same except right at the end of Willow and though the gap in the Jersey barriers, through the big warehouse parking lots and then another quick zig-zag to get up to Charlotte and then Smallman all the way in through the Strip into town.

It's actually easier than it sounds and no Butler Street or Penn to deal with.

I take Liberty daily all the way from S. Winebiddle. I tend to run into more trouble within my first 5 blocks of my commute. People using the bike lane to pass everyone, only to continue sitting at the lights..Or just flat out hauling ass up them to beat a block of traffic or to turn up the next side street. I don't really have trouble in the Strip aside from people riding behind me for a ways which freaks me out.

I even had 6 motorcycle cops cut me off to ride the bike lane two blocks to pass all the sitting traffic. How awesome, right?

There's a blockwatch/public-safety group for this area, Lawrenceville United's 6th Ward Block Watch. Unfortunately, they normally meet on the last Monday of the month, so May's meeting was cancelled.

I asked if it would be made up, and was offered the following substitute event: "there is an LU General Membership meeting on June 12th which will be held at the Goodwill at 6:30 pm and there will be a public safety update provided at that meeting". "6th ward block watch will resume in June - last monday of the month (June 25th)at the Church Brew Works, 7pm."

If you live in the district, please try to come to this with me; even if you don't, it may be useful to have a showing that Pittsburgh's cyclists are concerned about the safety of this area...

I think Quizbot is onto a serious design flaw in this intersection. When Liberty outbound has green, they're presented with a green light located alongside Ligonier. That light shouldn't be there AT ALL. With Pittsburgh's history of being creative with intersections and light cycles, this green light could easily and reasonable be considered an indication that oncoming traffic has a red. That light shouldn't be on the pole closest to Ligonier, it should be on the pole closest to Liberty.

This intersection sucks for everyone. Another rush hour car crash here today. Maybe rsprake can fill in the details.

saw this today. hope everyone is ok. it looked brutal, but can't imagine how fast they mustve been going for that to happen

Ugh......

Obviously hope everybody's physically ok, etc....

But that looks like a VW Jetta (2804 lbs.) vs. A Ford SUV - Excursion maybe? Or possibly a Chevy pick-up (+/-5500 lbs.)?

Appears VW t-boned SUV/truck @ passenger side door and dumped it on its side. Any physics geeks (term of endearment) here who can provide the appropriate formula involving mass and volume, etc?

Looks to me even "smallish" vehicles pack plenty punch (especially if they are going fast enough...)

(Insert standard "I don't know any of the details so I'm just engaging in wild speculation disclaimer" here.)

I'm guessing the jetta was slamming on their brakes at the moment of impact which would lower the the front end and make a nice wedge to flip the suv right over.

No additional info. There were people sitting on the curb and what looked like either newspaper writers or investigators milling about.

That Jetta must have been flying.

Also something is terribly wrong with C&R Collision boy's shorts.

did this even make the news? i find it hard to believe that an suv on it's side in the middle of the city didn't make the news

it made the traffic reports on the radio.

if it happens often enough, it's not "news".

Didn't see anything.

"Also something is terribly wrong with C&R Collision boy's shorts."

That's just wrong.

I know talk of this intersection has gone on and on..

but one big issue (aside from the turn onto ligonier) is the amount of traffic coming outbound on Liberty, and the impatience of people trying to turn from inbound liberty onto the Herron bridge. I live closeby, and so many folks try to zip into the smallest gaps in oncoming traffic to make that bridge. I get honked at a good bit for not turning fast enough there.

as a physics geek, dmtroyer's speculation looks most likely to me. you can see the suv's passenger door is crushed in pretty good, and it looks like that's where the collision happened. considering how modern cars are meant to fall apart in head-on collisions, the damage to the jetta doesn't look that extensive.

essentially, it would just have to lift it enough to flip it on its side, which probably wouldn't be that difficult, considering the height difference.