BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I wonder if that's the same pair I saw the same day a little later on Beechwood Blvd riding AGAINST the traffic. Idiot behavior is certainly not confined to those who ride on four wheels.

Not sure David, but if it was an adult with a kid around the age I stated, I would say it is a 95% chance it was. I have been riding around Pittsburgh for decades and rarely see a kid of that age on a road bike on the street in traffic. I would imagine someone knows this duo. It isn't that common. Please try and tell the adult to consider a different style of riding. I am pretty upset by it to be honest. I ride on the roads all the time and would NEVER subject a kid to such a road or situation. I wouldn't subject an adult following me to anything remotely like that. I have a feeling if I could have said something, he would have told me to mind my own business, but maybe someone actually knows them?

I see cyclists all the time making their own lane between cars; it's nothing new.

After years and thousands of miles of on-street travel, I am coming to the realization that the only safe place to be is centered, or just left of center, in the traffic lane. Pull to right in a few circumstances, pull over and stop in fewer still, but basically own the lane, and insist drivers change lanes to pass. Run blinkies front and back at all times of day, be visible and predictable. That means don't split lanes. Your head is directly in line with the head of the driver in front of you, and the driver behind you. IMHO that is the least dangerous place to be when on the road, and goes equally for 35-year-olds and 11-year-olds. Approaching Penn/Fifth from any direction, going in any direction, that is exactly where I would be.

After a few decades of riding and many thousands of miles, I know I would never subject some kid riding between over 20 cars heading up to Penn Ave and then thinking they could magically cut in front of cars to take the right lane. I wouldn't bother posting this if there wasn't some kid trying to keep up behind the moronic adult. Guess you had to be there, but whatever. I will wait for the statistic later and say, oh I remember that kid.

No doubt that was a dangerous way to navigate that intersection, and if your description is accurate, I'm fairly sure it's ticket worthy. My understanding is it is ok for bikes to filter up the right side, but it is illegal to lane split on the left. And then there is the Darwin axiom that just because it is legal to do something doesnt necessarily make it wise to do so.

I wonder if this was the same pair I saw a year or so ago. Kid on a road bike moving at a good clip with dad(?) on Saline. I was stopped at the red light at Greenfield on my bike at rush hour. The pair of them don't slow down and pull a right on red DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF A SEMI! The truck braked and the kid made it by about two feet. Dad just kept riding, so did the kid. I don't think they even realized how close that kid got to death. I'm amazed the truck driver was able to see the little guy that close to his front grill....maybe he didn't...maybe he was just braking because he saw the adult.

I will wait for the statistic later and say, oh I remember that kid.

And if nothing happens ... then you will say what?

mattj said: "I wonder if this was the same pair I saw a year or so ago. Kid on a road bike moving at a good clip with dad(?)…" That sounds exactly the same except this time it wasn't a semi, it was a car. They were moving at a good clip up that small grade.

Look, not every dad out riding with his kid is the same pair. There are lots of them. It's not easy riding with kids if you're the only adult. You probably go first, because you know the way, and that leaves the kid behind trying to keep up. Riding in the middle lane doesn't make things any easier, of course. But I'm wondering how they ended up there. Were they in the left lane and decided to take the middle because traffic was too slow, which would be stupid? Or did something else happen, like, say, the kid taking off in the middle lane, dad sees that and catches up with him and leads him back to the right? There's a lot of education that has to happen for kids and adults to ride safely in traffic. Sometimes kids don't want to listen and have to learn things through experience (I've been there, as a kid and as an adult trying to teach kids). Sometimes the adult doesn't know better and doesn't even know they're doing things wrong.

"Sometimes the adult doesn’t know better and doesn’t even know they’re doing things wrong." Like the guy I saw today in oakland with the helmet mounted backwards on his head.

"Look, not every dad out riding with his kid is the same pair. There are lots of them. " Not really a lot of them like these two. I almost never see kids on nice road bikes moving along like this kid was. I would consider this quite rare in our region to see someone that age ripping up that grade. He was focused on keeping up with the adult. Wish it was on video. I think then you would get the idea better than in words on a screen. It was impressive how fast this kid was and my thoughts were they both were good at riding a bike, but the danger the adult was putting this kid in was pretty shocking. If it was some adult with another adult, I would just shake my head, but this is a bit different. Putting a kid in danger is why I posted it wondering if someone knew of these two.

If those dad and son (road bikes, 650B wheels, clipless pedal) then this young man could keep up with fast group on Team Decaf rides and he is very adapt to road riding. Actually he is more safe than his dad.

By any chance is the dad in the original occurrence a thin middle aged white man with longish graying hair?

@edmonds59 I'm wondering the same thing on the ID. I have seen him lead his kid into some very sketchy lane splitting situations on Negley approaching the light at ELB.

650B

650C- sorry, my bad. BTW someone asked once about decent kids road bikes... http://www.wiggle.co.uk/moda-mini-20-kids-road-bike/ http://www.wiggle.co.uk/moda-major-650c-kids-road-bike/

General comments about kids and cycling, don't know anything about these two except what's in the thread. People do filter and cheat lights solo and I think that's ok situationally (even in the "middle lane"), but not with kids, and I don't think it's really even ok with older ones. First, until they're old enough to ride the same stretch solo (and for a good while after) simplicity is a necessary ingredient for safety. Claim the lane when reasonable, ride to the right when necessary, don't make sudden moves but be assertive and assume an appropriate lane and lane position for the next intersection. Follow traffic signals. That's plenty to keep straight and do well. And it's just intuitively obvious you should never do ANYTHING timing sensitive when you're riding with someone smaller, slower, more wobbly, and with poorer situational awareness and judgement trying to stick with you. I think the ability to keep coaching in real time and in all situations is very valuable, so I'd keep them in front. Yes, it's a little slower, because instead of struggling to keep up they keep their own pace. But then that absence of adrenaline means there's a little more room for them to think. Also, as a practical matter, it makes it more likely they'd be able to hear your coaching. Finally, it gives them the first person perspective which is valuable to their future life as solo cyclists. If the concern is about them being seen you can double up and put yourself more toward the middle to partially shield crossing traffic at intersections, though I'm not convinced that changes to the relative orientation are worth the complexity and room for confusion most of the time. Maybe put a high vis vest on the kid...

"By any chance is the dad in the original occurrence a thin middle aged white man with longish graying hair?" Sorry, I am not sure because I only saw his tail. They flew by pretty fast to be honest and it was more of a shock than a chance to study them more. I am sorry about this thread in a way, but there was a kid involved and the situation the adult put him in was pretty ridiculous. I feel this kid could ride with some pretty fast folks and I would be impressed by him, but this is about the leader's responsibility for his safety. I just don't want to see this kid get hit. As we know, it can happen.

Perhaps they were climbing the hill in the middle lane to try and get out of it/as far up it as possible before the light changed. They could have pulled into the lane from Thomas Blvd and if the traffic was stopped, they'd kind of have to cycle up to get a place in line anyhow. From the description, I don't understand what's wrong with merging into another lane. If he's towards 13, that's pretty close to 14 and that's when kids start driving. If a kid can drive up that hill, I see no reason why a kid can't ride up it, especially if he's with his dad. Now granted, if I were in the same situation, I'd be in the rear, but it also sounds like the kid is pretty capable of climbing the hill

I made that exact maneuver yesterday (westbound Thomas, L Fifth, R Penn) with this thread in mind. I see no problem with taking the lane. I *do* see a problem with splitting a lane and expecting the kid to follow. Regardless of age or skill.

"By any chance is the dad in the original occurrence a thin middle aged white man with longish graying hair?" I saw these 2 riding the sidewalk on Baum Blvd. at about 15mph during rush hour. The kid is going to be one hell of a cyclist, if he doesn't get maimed or killed first. @Pierce, the driving age in PA is 16, not 14.