BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Take it slow, it will take about a week, bring every tool you would need to take all the bikes apart and spread them amongst everyone, drink lots, eat often, make sure everyone knows their bikes well, enjoy the views.

I think anyone who want to do this trip can do it if they are traveling with a small group, as long as your are reasonably fit and go at the pace of the slowest person.

Wow thanks...That is great information.

Mmmhmm, yes...drink a lot of "water".

Here's your basic information: http://www.atatrail.org/

I believe the trail is about 340 miles long. That's perfectly doable for just about anyone.

It doesn't have to take a whole week, depending on what you're used to. It'll take a week at about 50 miles per day, which is pretty easy for someone of moderate fitness to walk into. You want to be sure your bikes are in good working condition, so take them into a shop for a quick once-over if you don't know how to do that yourself.

If you can bike 25 miles on the trails around the city you you could probably do it. You need to know how to fix a flat and basic emergency repairs because some sections are pretty remote. Also, the c+o towpath is a bit bumpy and can turn into a mudfest with a good rain.

I should add, I tried to do pittsburgh to dc in 4 days a few years ago. It rained for two days and I ended up behind schedule. I ended up finishing in Hancock, md. The c+o is rough when it gets muddy (at least on a hybrid with slicks).

The first time I did the trail, I did it in three days. Well, more like 2 and a half. I left at 6am Friday morning and pulled into Georgetown at 2pm on Sunday. After that, I would ride it in a more leisurely 4 or 5 days.

http://www.tasigh.org/gps/bikeblog.html

Wow, thanks a lot everyone, that is some helpful information. I'm going to have to learn how to change my tires!

I've done the DC round trip once. I tried a year before that and didn't get all the way to DC (but I went and returned as far as I did by bike. Didn't suffer the ignomy returning on some other transportation.)

The time I tried and failed, the longest training ride I did was about 45 miles. My plans were to take 5 days down, one day of rest and 5 days back. That is about 67 miles a day

Wouldn't you know? I averaged just about 45 miles a day! Isn't THAT a coincidence?

There were days I pushed myself - up to 72 miles one day, for example. I had to push myself to go 30 miles the next day. At the end of the trip, I was really feeling progressive exhaustion.

You might want to grit your teeth and push through for a 2-day trip. For a 10-day trip, it might be possible.

This year, I was successful. I planned for 7 days down and 7 days back, two days rest in DC. About 48 miles a day.

The longest training ride I did the sucessful year was Oscar Swan's Potato Garden Run Ride. With getting lost near Alliquippa, that was over 70 miles. One weekend I did a distance training ride both Saturday and Sunday.

Even so I wish I had trained more. It would have been easier and more fun on my trip. As it is, I felt good on the trip, but was wasted for a week when I got back.

If I were to do it over again, I would train much harder - do a century, maybe do the MS 150. For the round trip, I'd do 6 days down, 3 days rest, 6 days back and another day rest. 8 weeks training with one century and a 2-day 150 ride would be just about right for 56 miles a day.

I think if I were more or less fit and didn't train much on a bike, then about 30 miles a day will be way on the far edge of what I would want to do. I've heard some experienced folks, much younger than me, agree with that.

Of course, "more or less fit" is different, say if you're 23 and ran track in college compared with a couch potato. I'm in my 50's.

There is a trail book that I found kind of helpful, but kind iof commercial and an irritant, too.

http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Book-2009-10-Jeff-OBrien/dp/0979210828

It has a vinyl trail map that has lasted in my sweaty back pocket for roughly 1000 miles. The roads off-trail that the map shows are helpful - even when you also have a road map or two.

But, for example, the book doesn't show taht there is lodging in Paw Paw, WV, because no one from there advertised. Paw Paw is a major stop over.

The other books I bought are more sincere, but were less useful. That included "Linking up" and the "Trail Companion"

http://thelocalhistorycompany.com/books/097118352x/pages/097118352x.html

The Trail Companion, is good to read for the history of the rails, but not as useful for traveling. Linking Up is geared towards riders that are supported by (make me gag) internal combustion machines and such.

The history of the rails in brief:

"There were some people who started a railway project to compete with the Pennsylvania RR. They made some foolish decisions and were (unexpectedly) sandbagged by people paid off by Pennnsylvania Railroad. Formerly wealthy men were ruined. The rails were eventually purchased at rock bottom price by (guess?) Pennsylvania Railroad."

Repeat a half dozen times until a bike trail forms in the remnants.

There are ways to bipass parts of the GAP trail to Cumberland, I guess, but the trail always seemed fine to me.

Not so the C&O.

It was originally conceived as a hiking trail and there are people strongly committed to historic accuracy and non-development.

On the C&O, when it rains, it becomes apparent that you are riding on century-old mule shit. When the rain stops, you will learn why they use dead horses to make glue.

Thre are parts of the C&O where it would be hard to avoid the trial - particularly the first few miles out of Cumberland, with 1000+ ft climbs. Other parts, it is pretty good to take the roads.

Around Hancock, there is 20 miles of paved rail-trail that is parallel to the C&O and often in site of it.

From Williamsport through the Antietam Battlefield, Sharpsburg, and to Antietam Creek is a lovely ride on the roads.

There is a ferry ($1 American) over the Potamac near Leesburg, VA, then a paved rail trail from Leesburg to DC.

All in all I've done about 600 miles "on" the C&O, but that was really about 370 on the trail and 230 on roads. I don't regret that one bit. There is about 20 miles of the C&O that I missed -both trips, both directions.

Maybe heaven is on that 20 miles, I dunno. Doubt it.

There seem to be plenty of places to stop for food, water, beer, or beds on the GAP, but far fewer on the C&O. Plenty of places to camp on the C&O, but if you are doing B&B's and motels, you have to plan.

If you want, you can message me a month or so before you leave. You can buy me a beer and I'll go over the specifics using maps, diaries, visual aids, etc. I'll blither on until you start napping -and maybe past!.

Mick

the two books I recommend, if you want to do some cool sightseeing along the way, are The C&O Companion by Mike High and The Great Allegheny Passage Companion by Bill Metzger.

Each have tons of information about things on and around the trail. The "attractions" are all listed by their mile markers, so it's easy to plan ahead or just figure out what's around you when you stop.

There are lots of spots I would've missed without them. And it's great to learn about the trail while you bike along instead of just looking at tree after tree, lock after lock.

I found the C&O near Washington..BOOOOOOORING.

Also I only did the ride in one direction, Washington to Pittsburgh, but it seems like Pittsburgh to Washington would be much easier...Felt like I was always going up, just a little, but still.

I slept in a hammock, and cooked out... took me 5 days. Mid-October was a little cold for a hammock though.

Here are some pictures I took along the way:

DC-PGH photos

I was also planning on doing this trip in the spring. My question is:

I presently only have a road bike (Schwinn World Sport from the 80s, free-ride). Would the DC trip be doable on this, or do people recommend something a little more rugged?

I was thinking of putting together a mountain or hybrid bike for snowy commutes (hopefully at Free Ride). If I do so, anything specific I should keep in mind if I would use the same bike for the DC trip?

i would say that bike with 28/1"1/4 tires would be about perfect

I have heard that parts of the trail can get pretty muddy and that smaller than 32mm tires were not recommended.

This is a great trip. My wife and I did it twice. The first time it took a week. That trip we did side trips to tour Harper's Ferry and then spent a whole day at Antietam biking around the battlefield. Very doable and very interesting. The second time we didn't do any side trips and it took 5 days. We didn't want to take two weeks off work so we didn't bike both ways instead we loaded ourselves and our bikes on Amtrak for a one way ride. The only thing I'd add to what has already been said is that the C&O section is rocky and bumpy and when it gets wet it can be really muddy. I definately would not use less than 28's for tire size. You don't need suspension but without it you will need to frequently change your hand position, otherwise you won't be able to feel your hands by the end of the C&O. Have fun.

@mickmac

What was it like taking your bike on amtrak?

I attempted this during spring break last year, which is in March. Turns out the Savage tunnel is closed in March, so I had to call a cab to shuttle me from Meyersdale to Cumberland.

Then I made it 50 miles from DC, and a stick wound up in my spokes and blew it all up. I couldn't ride at all with this slightly tacod wheel, and no trail shops are open in March. I waited at the Point of Rocks train station for the commuter train to come around, and a really nice guy from Chicago pulled up in his BMW and offered me a ride to DC.

What I'm trying to say here is, it's not about the trail. It's about the experience. Go out and have fun, and don't worry about finishing the whole thing.

@bikelove2010: It was cold. The AC was blasting away both times but that's probably not what you wanted to know. The first time we loaded the bikes and ourselves in Pittsburgh and rode back from DC. The second time we started from our home in Squirrel Hill and rode to the White House (from our house to the white house). Both times we had to place the bikes in Amtak bike boxes. It wasn't cheap (?$40 per bike). To fit them into the box you need to take the pedals off and turn or remove the handlebar. So you'll need a pedal wrench and an Allen wrench. That being said, I think that I read or heard that the trains now have bike racks. From the station in DC it's really easy to get to the C&O. Finally the Pittsburgh end is after dark coming or going. The DC end is always mid-day.

wow, thanks everyone! i have a single speed right now...should i get a bike with gears for this trip?

The steepest part is between Cumberland and Frostburg. 1200 ft in 16 miles.

I think the maximum is 2% grade on the rail-trail part, but 1.5% is for practical purposes the max.

On the C&O, if it rains, you face the decisioin trail or road? Muck or mountains? Either way, gears are a comfort.

I tell people new to biking that for Pittsburgh you want a road bike with mountain bike gears and for the trail you would want the opposite.

I like having some gears. I'm guessing an old Sturmey-Archer 3-speed could be lovely on the trail.

Mick

My best friend and I made the trip in 4 days carrying 30lb backpacks apiece (NEVER AGAIN) and no bike shorts...

So with that said... Don't carry anything heavier than a camelback on your back, or you could end up on the couch for a year when a disc pops.

Also, protect the taint!!! We bought bike shorts midway through day 2 but it was too late by then. Riding the last 75 miles into DC standing up is not entirely fun.

We had an absolute BLAST though doing this. It was our first long distance ride. We brought much more than necessary with us, and used backpacks because we were too broke to get panniers etc. It was almost spur of the moment for us.

The train ride home is fun because you can hang out on the bar-car and watch the scenery you just saw pass by out the large windows.

It does get boring from time to time because you can go 50 miles on the trail without any beer or food stops, and once you are ON the trail, you won't feel like deviating from the trail to find something else.

We made it in 4 days, well stopped 20 miles outside DC to camp around 5PM because we missed the train home. We did not make a good pace in terms of average speed, we just stayed on the bikes 16 hours or so each day.

Also... Very important... You CANNOT buy beer in Harpers Ferry before noon on Sunday. There is a great old style German Brewhaus in town and if you show up too early you are screwed.

Also, many bars close at midnight along the way. But when you are riding so much you can drink 5X more than your normal allowance and the buzz just melts off shortly after getting back on the bike.

As for Amtrack... Make sure you get there at least 2 hours before your train ride. The people at the station are much less than slow when it comes to getting you a freakin box to put the bike in. They are nice about it, but they take their time!

Make sure your pedals are greased well and you have a wrench that can get them off. They want you to remove the pedals so they don't poke through the box, but they won't deny your bike passage if they get stuck like my friend's did on his. No need to carry the deluxe 10lb park tool shop quality pedal wrench for it at least.

I think a fixie would be fine. I don't remember shifting gears much more than once or twice a day LOL... But I would never ride a road bike or something with drop-bars for that ride... Mountain bike for sure. The trail is doable with a road bike, especially the PA side, but being upright with fat tires make it much more comfortable on the C&O path. I don't remember anything that would cause me problems on the road bike other than extra fatigue. At some point you will start to wonder if it would be better to hit the roads instead and deal with the mountain climbs vs being on the bumpy trail.

my friends and I did it a few years ago with fixies...did it in 3 1/2 days. we all had moustache bars on the bikes. these were regular ol' schwinn kraynick specials (schwinn worlds) with weinman rims/cheap hubs.

i think doing this on a MTB/flat bar bike would be insane on ones back.

per Rivendell/Grant Peterson - the MOST back friendly riding position would be traditional drops wherein the bar top is about 2 inches HIGHER than the top/flat part of the saddle. I now have this set up and prefer it to moutache when doing over 100 miles in a day. wp

if anyone is up for it I'll post a LONG LONG story trip report...quite funny, but LONG. over 1000 words.

Willie P - I'd be up to read your story.

I read part of Kordite's blog. It was good. He has a bunch different DC trips documented. I wish he'd pick one and label it "best read."

Mick

I think using flat bars would kill your shoulders and back unless you use bar-ends to get more hand positions. The one time I did the CTC ride to Philly, I used a flat bar setup on a "frankenbike" contraption I built from a touring bike and mountain bike parts. It was horribly uncomfortable.

I mounted some nice bar-ends on that bike later on and now it is more comfortable in my opinion than drop bars. It made a huge difference.

Overall on a long road ride I would go with drop bars, but I wouldn't want to ride a drop bar setup on the rail trail, especially the C&O trail.

Bar ends are cheap and common.

Also check if the bike rides OK no-hands. That helps a lot.

It seems like you have most of the info you need at this point, but I just wanna chime in and say that a group of my friends did it on single-speeds and had a blast. Do it!

Make sure ya'll have racks on your bikes for your stuff and don't carry anything on your back (like Adam said).

I would like to do this on the unicycle in the spring, any uni riders interested.

I could join you for a few miles, but am not interested in making the entire trip. FWIW, I've ridden the length of the Paw Paw Tunnel on the uni.

It's a great trail and I would highly recommend it. If its your first bike trip, I would recommend going with an organized tour such as venture outdoors or adventure cycling or with experienced cyclist or outsdoor folks -- greater probability that your first trip will be a wonderful adventure and you will be eager for another one. WHy? I would say its the hardest ride I have ever ridden and very different from other biking adventures I've done (I've done self-contained touring across the US, Mickelson trail in SD, MS150's, etc)-- partially due to expectations and previous experience on trail rides that were much easier than this one, more acccessible to towns and amenities, and the weather. First, invest in front and rear fenders. If it rains and you have mud -- you will be much happier and cleaner. Second, realize that C&0 canal is designated as an historic trail hence its just packed soil/ground. No gravel or anything else so if you have rain it really makes cycling intense and challenging. I actually stopped and thought I had a back flat tire because I couldn't posssibly be traveling so slow on a trail -- nope, I was -- the mud was thick and covered everything. By the end of the day you had no idea what color my mountain bike was. I have never been so dirty in all my life -- that's when you will love your fenders.

The other interesting feature of the trail is that you really are out in the woods. So be prepared to handle your repairs and have food etc. There are lots of interesting sites and small towns along the way but for the most part you will have to leave the trail to get there. If that interests you, some planning is advised.

I would recommend riding with a montain bike or hybrid and not a road bike.

Train very cheap way to get from pittsburgh and WA DC -- but bike and boxing are not so cheap or convenient. Not all train routes have bike racks and most still require boxing the bike so check beforehand. Plan ahead -- find out which towns have train stops. Be aware there are not alot transportation choices in these towns ie I had the impression no bus service, airport shuttle service, taxis and limited train schedules. Also might want to check with the bike stores along the trail-- a couple of years ago there were private bike outfiters who would transport you and/or your bike to Pittsburgh. When I looked into shipping my bike by ups etc --the price was outrageous -- not sure if that has changed. Many bike stores will box your bike for a fee (~$35-50) if you don't want that hassle.

Hope that helps-

When my dad and I rode another guy offered the advice that a one-way rental on a minivan could also be an affordable way to get back.

I plan on biking to Ohio Pyle from the Southside. I will be taking the GAP trail most of the way. However I don't quite know how to pick it up from the Southside. I realize the trail kind of dead ends near sand castle and you have to traverse the train track crushed limestone on foot. But then I am lost. I have meandered around Homestead and the Waterfront on bike, but I don't know a good route to pick up the Great Allegheny Passage.

I am fine riding on roads, I am just looking for the safest route to pick up the trail.

I'll be doing this on a Fixed Specialized Langster with riser bars and 700 x 28C tires.

I also have a KHS Flight 220 with 700x 28Cs and fenders, and a rack.

Both are in great working order and are very dependendable.

I'm open to any further advice.

Check out Google Maps and make you have Bicycling enabled. You can see where the trails start and end. From what I have read on these boards, the hard part is still from where the South Side trail ends to McKeesport.

Bigger, softer tires will help with the bumpy trails too.

@Mildsnbleu I plan on biking to Ohio Pyle from the Southside

From an old thread

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/riverton-bridge-open-on-both-sides#post-20011

BradQ says

We took the south side trail to Sandcastle, got up to 837, followed it to just across the bridge past Kennywood, and then went roughly 2 intersections into Duquesne and back down the hill to connect to the trail and then the bridge.

in

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/gap-progress

Erok says: you can ride the "better" section of 837 until kennywood. Once past kennywood, you go over a bridge, then you make a quick right into Duquesne. go thru the neighborhood.

at Grand, you can make a left, bomb down the hill, then cross 837. as soon as you cross 837, the trail that goes to the bike bridge, is on the right.

Google bike directions suggest up Streets Run and Mifflin Rd to get to McKeesport. I prefer 837, although it kinda sucks.

Mick

one of my cycling dreams is to make this ride to DC/MD, catch a show, crash the night, and head right back. though i'm a bit of a loner, which makes it tough to meet anyone who'd wanna trek long distance AND shares musical tastes.

one day it'll happen.

btw, hi. name's Dave. this is my first post.

peace.

Hi Dave! What are your musical tastes?

Does anyone know if the water might be turned on at the campgrounds along the trail this early in the year? I plan on riding out to cedar creek next weekend but I"m not sure if i need to carry all the water I need with me or not.

@alnilam

the Sage Francis/B.Dolan/Free Moral Agents tour hitting DC/B'more on consecutive nights June 22/23 is what rekindled the idea.

but something rocking like a Mogwai or Melvins show would be dope as well.

basically into anything intricate and intense with decent composition, be it lyrical or instrumental. pretty open minded when it comes to genre in regards to tunes that meet that criteria.

would Love to make the ride happen this Spring/Summer/early Fall prolly my last year on my current bike, an early 2000's Trek Singletrack 930 that i've been riding forever. it essentially rides like a grownup BMX, but it's too small for me really, especially for as much moderate distance road riding as i've been doing the past few years.

anyhow, yeah! i'm serious about wanting to ride the trail.