BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Man, that sucks, hope you're ok.

This makes me mad, if they were digging and couldn't clean it up it should have been marked with a cone or something, people don't think about the results of their own stupidity.

You should demand a response from the city. If there is any damage to your bike you should file a damage claim. At that intersection, god forbid, you could have easily been run over.

yiiiiiiiiiiiiikes... so glad you're alright. hydrogen peroxide. lots of it. and maybe this

Uhh, actually you should scrub well and not use hydrogen peroxide. The current recommendation is not to use anything you wouldn't put in your eye (neosporin excluded). Scrub real well and keep it covered.

That road is a disaster. There's a huge lip between the roadwork and the normal road and the manhole covers stick WAY up and aren't marked.

hydrogen peroxide is for your carpet. not you.

HA! Got it.

WMS, plus: cover it with Tegaderm / Second Skin or a similar moist dressing. I think there's a CVS generic brand, probably one at Walgreen's too. It's amazing how much better road rash heals under this stuff.

http://www.obra.org/wound_care.html

For getting blood out of fabric: first soak with cold water.

Ouch! That looks painful! Sorry to hear of the mishap.

This seems like gross negligence on the part of whoever left a 2" thick layer of gravel at the intersection.

There was a similar situation at Beacon and Murray (and I'm guessing at many other intersections along Murray). They just tore up the parking lanes and left the middle of the road at the original grade. 3 inch vertical drops parallel to the direction of travel suck in a car, but cause this kind of shit on a bike. Sounds like one of these was filled with gravel or something to make it level with the road? How safe of them.

How do pothole cold-patches end up so consistently bumpy and uneven? Do they simply not hold the weight of vehicles like an even stretch of pavement and thus deform, or do DPW crews not apply them very level to begin with? Or BOTH?

Sorry to hear that Nick. It's not really any consolation by I know the fear of sliding out when I almost ate it when turning from Second Ave (coming down from Greenfield Ave) and turned right onto the access road to get to the Jail Trail. There was a huge thick gravel pile right beside the jersey barriers there. It's probably still there...

Wow Nick, that's awful. There's a sports medicine doc in Wyoming who used to write for Road Magazine and she was a huge fan of Band Aid Brand Hurt Free antiseptic wash. http://www.bandaid.com/productList.do?typeId=1#anchor4

It's got lidocaine in it. She recommended soaking a gauze pad in some of this stuff and then laying it on the wound for several minutes. The lidocaine desensitizes the wound so you can clean it (get the gravel out) with much less pain. Possibly too late for this advice now, but I pass it along. The doc, Helen Iams, was a big fan of Tegaderm as well.

How do pothole cold-patches end up so consistently bumpy and uneven? Do they simply not hold the weight of vehicles like an even stretch of pavement and thus deform, or do DPW crews not apply them very level to begin with? Or BOTH?

I've seen guys leap out of a truck, toss some patch mix into a hole, bang it with a shovel a couple of times and drive on to the next hole. In fairness they are trying to patch a lot of holes in a short period of time.

@jeff: Good point, but it seems like in so many cases I've seen they're putting too much and the potholes then become pot-bumps. Case-in-point, my foolish idea to ride on Negley Ave from Fifth to Baum.

pot bumps is a good description. I wonder if that isn't partly by design though, since the patch mix will settle/compact as cars roll over it. Of course, often it settles even more. Cold patch is something of a band-aid I believe for a more thorough patch job later. Whether funds are availalble for the later repair job is probably an open question though.

If that's the case then most of Negley is like a man in a full-cast. It is seriously in need of total resurfacing

When I've seen pothole repair, they seem to just dump some hot asphalt in and don't even particualrly pat it down with ashovel. I think this is "cold patching" even though the asphalt it a pretty goodly temperature.

My inpression is that even a hand-pushed roller would make a huge difference to the smoothness.

Of course, I'm just guessing. It might be that rolling it out would only make it level - until a dozen or two cars rolled over it.

A pot-bump is what threw me back in January. I never did seek medical care, but I'm sure I have some torn cartilage. The throw-overhand motion I simply cannot do with my right arm.

Seems that somewhere or other, some road repair guru has developed a best-practices document on pothole cold-patching. Sure, do it in a hurry if you have to, but do it right first.

@impala26, the last time I tried to make the right from 2nd to the Jail Trail access point (July '09), I saw the loose gravel just in time, aborted the turn, and concentrated on not splatting into the wall.

Ugh. Public Works motto: "We take good pavement and ruin it!"

They came to dig up part of St. Marie St. by the Seminary--I think this was in March. They cut out a 3ft x 12ft section of the road and left it filled with gravel until April. It was ridiculous. Then, I think it took them two days to pave it, but maybe my brain only thought it was two days.

@greenbike: If you think that's bad you should check out Semple Street near Forbes sometime! That street's been torn up, graveled, and covered with those big steel sheets.

Ouch. Glad nothing is broken.

@greenbike

What I don't get is why these agencies do not coordinate with one another. Last year (I think?) they repaved 5th ave in front of my work. Within a month, verizon was out there jackhammering up the BRAND NEW pavement to bury some stupid fiber or whatnot. Why can't they push up their fiber laying a month so they don't need to chop up brand new pavement, and then half ass patch it later, thus creating all sorts of cracks for new potholes. I see this all over Pgh, brand new pavement, then some other crew came up behind them and decided they needed access to something under the brand new pavement, and its got some "just get it done" quality patch over it. Ridiculous.

Public Works usually isn't digging within their streets unless hell has frozen over and they're replacing an inlet.

Most likely, trenching within the streets are PWSA replacing leaking water valves and sewer pipes, or the gas company replacing their lines.

The M.O. I've found for PWSA and their contractors is to backfill their work, not compact it and hurriedly pave over. Within days it's a wavy mess. Some resourceful citizens have spray painted "PWSA" over the patch so people know whom to direct their moaning towards. PWSA eventually come back, saw cut, pave and seal. Real nice work when all is said and done.

I joke to people that PWSA paves more streets than DPW, because of all the failing valves and lines...

Nothing is broken but my ego (and possibly something in my wrist).

My bars and levers are bent and the tape is ripped up, but my helmet is ok. Seems like my chins took the impact.

The chin-impact is my argument for full face motorcycle helmets (I hate seeing people on motorcycles with 3/4 or half helmets).

Maybe I'll get a DH or a dirt bike helmet.....

I'm sending this off to 311.

you should email public works too, with photos of the damage: BBI_DPWRequests@city.pittsburgh.pa.us

and/or public safety: Public Safety (412-255-8973)

Good advice. I already fixed most of the damage though.

Nick,

Hands are important. If you have insurance, you might want to get your wrist X-rayed.

My chin isn't what it was before my last accident, either. Bike helmets could have a little rail in front of the chin, I guess. Or maybe a chin cup for a strap.

@dwillen

Preachin' to the choir. My thoughts exactly---esp. since they'll grind down a road and repave it, but not fix the base. Unless you fix the base, from what I understand, you're pretty much guaranteed the same potholes again.

Nick,

Hope you heal up soon...that's scary stuff.

Allegheny County ripped up the road I work on 3 weeks ago and it hasn't been repaved yet. Should be interesting to see their next step, because there are now massive potholes in the base due to all the rain and amount of time it's been unpaved.

I just got new health insurance, so I have to through it to see where I can go.

I will probably see if I can get it looked at before the weekend. My work hours make it rough.

Took your advice...

As you can see, 3m knows their market (cyclist leg on the package).

I would get in touch with a lawyer. but that's just me. Glad you're not seriously injured, Nick.

Oh, hey, for that arm Surgilast tubular bandage will also work really well. It's the fishnet stuff you see professional cyclists wearing after they've crashed. It's really good for arms and knees, esp near the joint. That, some bandages and some Neosporin are pretty cheap and work as well as the Tegaderm. You can order/buy it at a medical supply store.

FWIW, if you've used Neosporin before without trouble that you are fine. However, a not insignificant cohort of people can have some contact dermatitis reaction to the neomycin that is part of the mix. Usually in the form of skin rashes. Just plain generic bacitracin is often recommended if that happens. There's also Polysporin which has the polymyxin b and bacitracin but no neomycin.

AH! So much info. I did have Neosporin on it with gauze... then I got Tegaderm due to Lyle and Chris's advice.

I prefer Tegaderm--the smell of Neosporin bothers me. I won't make a final call until I see how it comes off, but I think Tegaderm is something I am going to keep around (I get hurt a lot).

I put New Skin Liquid Bandage on my arm because of the area. It's been working pretty well.

It is already starting to heal pretty well, and I am starting to get a little bit of mobility back to my wrist/ankle/knees. I think it is due to the two boxes of animal crackers I ate, or the Percocets.

Ah, percocet. Yum yum yum. Better than animal crackers. Just don't mix those with any other painkillers, they're apparently accidental-overdose/organ-damage material. Probably says that on the label.

Also, you can sell the leftovers in S. Oakland.

The city's oh-so-caring reply:

311 reply: 05/13/2010 @ 11:23 am

We have notified the appropriate personnel about this issue. The Service Request ID number associated with this request is 178942.

Thank you for contacting our 311 Response Center!

I am kind of disappointed. I think this is something that someone could easily sue over. I would have thought the city would take it more seriously.

That's awful! Not even an apology? No concern, no remorse, no inquiry as to how you're doing? I know, it's the city, not a person, but presumably there are people involved in the process. Is there something we can do? Since there are a bunch of us? Write to 311 with the service request ID for reference and say we'd like a response with some decency? Or something?

Sorry to hear about all this - the accident sounded like it sucked bigtime, and yet hearing about this response has me even more pissed.

They will never respond with an apology. I bet the city's lawtalkers think some might interpret such words as an admission of fault.

Good point, Dan.

Luckily, I am healing fast. Most of the road rash is almost gone, and the gashes on my knee and chin as solid scabs.

my first thought was the same as dwillen's, but it's hard to imagine how something like "sorry to hear about your crash, and hope you are feeling better!" could be interpreted as admission of fault.

incidentally, sorry to hear about your crash, and hope you are feeling better!

You should be paying the city for making you look cool with new scars!

Maybe it was an automated message not even sent by someone personally? That could explain some of the callousness.

i like how every season there are a ton of streets here that they strip down to where you can see that there are still light rail tracks embedded in the pavement. ever wonder what's causing that line of potholes right in the bike area on ellesworth from neville to shadyside? the city sure doesn't. surely, steel rails don't expand and contract and twist and tear the shit out of the roads from underneath? naaah!

Good point. In this city is seems like the norm not the exception was to leave the tracks in place and just lay asphalt over top of them rather than remove them. Hell, I SILL see what I believe are disused or scantly used rails (evidenced by thick weed growth) and yet they're still preserved, road crossings and all. Examples: River Ave near east end of Heinz plant, East busway exit onto Fifth Ave., streets beneath Rt 28 Etna interchange. Maybe these are "active" in the sense that they're used every few months or so, but is it really THAT expensive to remove old tracks? You could recoup some cost by selling them for scrap metal at least, unlike old concrete or asphalt.

It's not really any consolation by I know the fear of sliding out when I almost ate it when turning from Second Ave (coming down from Greenfield Ave) and turned right onto the access road to get to the Jail Trail. There was a huge thick gravel pile right beside the jersey barriers there. It's probably still there...

Every time I go by there (like, every time I bike home from work) I think "next time I gotta bring a broom". All it would take would be one little street-sweeper detour and I could say wholeheartedly that taking Second Ave is safer than the other side of the jersey barrier (and head-ons with other cyclists) or than hopping the train tracks on the shortcut. As it is, I have to take that right a lot slower than I really want. I have a healthy fear of gravel shoulders having skinned a knee that way (biking from Cupertino to Santa Cruz on a lark had to let the cars behind me have room to pass once in a while.)

@ndromb sorry, that sucks.

Some gravel is always going to be there, moved into place by rainwater and traffic. Not much you can do about that. I have to make a left from a steep downhill onto a steep uphill, 150 feet from my house, and have almost bit it there several times. New gravel is *always* there.

But what ndromb encountered isn't much different from roadbuilding malpractice.

Yeah, and widespread malpractice from what dwillen et al. said. That kind of thing just ain't right.

a note on why verizon/utilities dig up freshly paved roads (causing these situations): they're softer and easier to dig through than older, cured roads. Most utilities, unless there is an ordinance to stop them via financial penalties for the increased maintenance costs due to uneven/poorly patched road after (Penn Hills is working on such an ordinance, I believe), actually WAIT for a municipality to repave a road to do an upgrade that requires digging through the road. It makes their repair time faster to go through fresh asphalt/concrete. Faster == cheaper. When stupid things happen, follow the money to find out why.