BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

in case you were wondering, scott bricker actually cloned himself. not telling which is the original

As someone who enjoys biking and walking, this is relevant to my interests. I grew up in the western suburbs, so what comes to mind are all of the McMansion developments that have sprung up where there was once farmland or abandoned strip mine. Snaking rows of aluminum-siding cubes, packed in like sardines, where once you leave the development it spits you out on a high-traffic, winding road. Those folks aren't walking to the store or the park any time soon.

Now and then I really get sick of living up on the rural outskirts, and ponder finding a new job and apartment in the city, but I like Zelienople in that regard. I can walk to the bike shop, hardware store, bakery, or the grocery store, and I'll probably see other people walking too. When I'm really motivated I can do my full bike commute and skip driving all together.

I think if you live in an area that was already built up prior to 1950, or better still, 1910, then you're in a walkable neighborhood. Pre-1950: Good public transit (not a guarantee, but outside it, thpptt). Pre-1910: Everything is in walking distance, or used to be.

I live in an 1890 house and I generally agree. I do think, however, that the radius of walking distance has changed dramatically in our society over those 120 years.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/04/16/150586667/americans-do-not-walk-the-walk-and-thats-a-growing-problem

I heard about those articles this AM on NPR and had forgotten to go find them, thank you!!

I always thought that my preference for houses built before the depression (pre WWI is better) was for a particular architecture or style, but Stu you've made me wonder if it's not also for a style of neighborhood as well. Even as a little kid I never liked "Ryan Homes".

I totally think "walkable" and "bikeable" are inextricably linked. The thing that got me about the radio piece was they talked about new "mixed use" developments that the developers were considering 100% of their users to arrive by car and then walk around, basically inside a glorified (strip) mall. People still aren't considering walking and biking as transportation. Really sad. I wonder why/how/when that happened?

I think one of the good examples of how the new "walkable" developments fail at being walkable has to be Settler's Ridge.

When it was being developed, I worked for a nonprofit that was interested in those types of projects. The project managers did a lot of showing off of the "lifestyle" center and talked about how walkable it would be.

When I shop there, I routinely fear for my life in the parking lots. I tend to park and then walk around, and the parking lots are narrow and wavy - I think to encourage people to drive more slowly.

The real life result is fast and scary driving of large vehicles in small places.

the real irony is that people drive there, go to one store, get back in their car, and drive to another store that is the equivalent of a block away. so much for walkable!

Settlers ridge is a pretty sad attempt at a walkable development, compared to things that are being done elsewhere in the country. It has only the vaguest gestures toward that type of thing. But I think it's a baby step.

What seems to some kind of minor acheivement, IMO, is that the developers seem to have succeeded in convincing the township to allow a lower parking space per unit calculation than "normal". There is still acres of parking, but it seems like less than elsewhere. People bitch about the lack of parking (which I consider a good thing), but the result of that is, on weekends, people are forced to find a parking space somewhere and walk a bit. Weekend evenings the place is packed with people walking around. My wife, who would go to a drive through bathroom if there was such a thing, goes over and walks. So baby steps.

The criminal part is that there is no public transit stop there. The nearest bus stop is on Steubenville Pike a quarter mile walk on a treacherous sidewalkless narrow road. There is still a strong "we don't want those people" mentality out here. sucks.

*My wife, who would go to a drive through bathroom if there was such a thing..*

I do this on my bike all the time. I love being a guy

@edmonds real estate and development are still full of that bias everywhere, not just the 'burbs.

PAT served Settlers Ridge for a year or so, until one of the rounds of cutbacks eliminated the service. If the state ever implements the funding system the governor's panel recommended, perhaps it will return.

We lost the 32 Campbells Run mini-bus in the March 2011 cuts. I used it a couple of times from there. It was devilishly difficult to figure out where the bus stop (singular) was. I pretty much relied on intuition on figuring out what path the bus took through there, and ended up jumping up and down and waving to get the driver's attention when it did appear, 100 feet away.

If the 35% cuts go through, we lose the entire 29 Robinson bus anyway.

Stu, I've been wondering about this for a while, why can't they just raise the price for the 28X so they don't have to cut it entirely? It's much more convenient than a cab, and a cab would cost much more; surely they could raise the price and still keep people interested. Not having that route would be a major inconvenience.

Adding more text so my post is not filtered. I don't know why every other post I make doesn't go through the first time.

Does anyone else have this problem? It's beginning to get really annoying; the board seems to be frequently unreliable.

Will this one go through?

More text.

Edmonds, I thought there was a different reason for the low number of parking spaces. 1) At the time it was being built, there was talk of a new annual Robinson Twp tax per parking space on any development with more than 100 parking spaces. Or 2) Fewer parking spaces means more room for rent-paying stores in an area that's already "topographically challenged" (developers' term, not mine).

Of course #1 was swiftly condemned long before it ever made it past being a talking point.

But to back off on my negativity a little, I agree that it's more walk-encouraging than, say, the actual mall at Robinson or the North Fayette plaza where Old Navy is. The fake grass by REI/Panera still cracks me up.

@asobi - Late 2010, you may remember, PAT did propose a higher fare for the far-flung routes, but it got shot down. The real problem is that the bar is set so high now, that even busy, in-city routes are being cut (40 Mt Washington, for example). These routes are being cut even with a fare hike built in.

Stu, as for your original post... you are totally right. There's a lot to be gained from combining bike and pedestrian advocacy.

And as the further discussion flowing into transit issues shows, throwing transit advocacy in there too makes a lot of sense.

Seems like we need a coalition of People Who Care to include bikers, walkers, bus takers, tree lovers, and People Who In General Believe Livability Doesn't Happen Automatically And That Change Can Be Good.

I think it would collect a critical mass that has a fighting chance to overcome the lobbyists who care only about paychecks and profit, and the couch potatoes who just post vitriol on the interwebs but don't even vote, and the angry fearful people who think cul-de-sacs are the epitome of civilization.

sigh.

ejwme, didn't you know there is a local chapter of PWIGBLDHA and TCCBG? Sometimes we meet together and sometimes it's just the TCCBG, because they have a broader focus you know. Next time you want to talk pwig-blad-ha, let me know!

AHA! (Acronyms are Hilarious - Always!)

Oh, I see now Stu wasn't the original poster, it was you above, ALMKLM.

@wsh6232 " I can walk to the bike shop, hardware store, bakery, or the grocery store, and I'll probably see other people walking too."

For what it's worth, from where I live in Lower Lawrenceville, a quarter-mile or so uphill from the Bike PGH office, I can walk to a hardware store, bike shop, grocery store, two record stores, at least three coffee houses, and three bakeries, all within 15-20 minutes.... the entire Strip is half an hour's walk, and Oakland is inside 40.

I love living in the city. I haven't moved my car in a week; before that, it sat for over a month, and I barely missed it.

(Of course, it depends on where "In the City" you live--I spent four years in Fineview, and there was absolutely nothing within 20 minutes. "Location, location, location" ?)

This has probably come up here before, but I thought I'd mention the website Walkscore.com , which rates neighborhoods on a scale of pedestrian paradise to car-dependent. Enter in an address and it will tell you what's within a good walking distance. The walkable neighborhoods are, in general, pretty good biking neighborhoods.

For those who want to combine transit use with walking and biking, I like the website http://www.mapnificent.net/ which lets you estimate where you can get to within a certain amount using transit and by walking. If you go into "settings" there is an option to expand your range with a bike.