BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

haha. you got the cage for that?

no cage...yet.

i got one.

Anything fit for a flask on the menu this evening Erok?

@BradQ I was just about to ask the same thing... could always swing by Wine & Spirits on the way from work if it is BYO.

i have one of these too... i was always curious of the legality of them... i'm sure they are but it always seemed like an easy way for a dick cop to charge you with a DUI

I've had those thoughts as well Mark.

I don't even know the true legality of a flask... Is it considered an open container at all times more or less? Can you have it in the passenger compartment of your car?

I'd guess a flask falls more-or-less under the same heading as a screw-top bottle of booze. What's the legality there?

I'd guess that, if it's sitting in the seat behind you, it's probably cool. If you're waggling it out the window as you weave down the road singing "The Lumberjack Song", probably not.

That's what I mean... I'm not positive it's cool to be in the seat behind you. It certainly isn't looked at kindly to have an empty, opened beer can in such a spot. I'm not sure how a half-gone bottle of liquor would be taken during a routine stop either.

Yeah, I dunno. I prefer to drink slumped over in the privacy of my own back alley...never got stopped with anything in the car that implied DUI.

Would having such a thing lead to anything beyond, at worst, a quick test for intoxication?

I'm going to guess a flask is treated similarly to an open container. That doesn't mean the container actually has to be open to the air, just that the original container it was initially purchased in has been opened at some point.

By law any container that has been opened must be carried in the trunk where nobody in the car has access to it.

If we take that one step further, it is most likely illegal to transport on the bike frame where it is accessible to the operator of the bike.

In order to get federal funds for roads, almost every state complies with the TEA-21 open container regulations. Pretty much, if the seal is broken and it is "accessible" you're in violation. No idea how this would apply to a bike though, since they don't really have a non-passenger area most of the time.

On a bike, in the city, I'm guessing at the very least they could at least cite you for having an open container. A non-vehicle violation.

(Pittsburgh, PA Municipal Code) § 601.08 ALCOHOL OR LIQUOR CONSUMPTION ON STREETS OR SIDEWALKS.

(a) Prohibited Conduct. No person shall consume alcoholic beverages or carry or possess an open container of alcoholic beverages in the public right-of-way, or on private property without the consent of the landowner or tenant, except that this prohibition shall not apply to block parties held under special permit issued by the Department of Public Works and in accordance with regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(b) Penalties. Any person who violates the provisions of this section shall be subject to:

(1) A fine not exceeding two hundred dollars ($200.00) for a first violation.

(2) A fine not exceeding three hundred dollars ($300.00) for a second violation of this section and, in default thereof, imprisonment not exceeding twenty-four (24) hours.

(3) A fine not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500.00) for each additional violation of this section, and in default thereof, imprisonment not exceeding seventy-two (72) hours.

(c) This section shall be known as the "Open Container Law"

(Ord. 23-1994, eff. 1-1-95; Ord. No. 21-2009, § 1, eff. 11-18-09)

Those are some crazy fines.

Yeesh. That's some bucks.

There go my plans to get rich via my new "Flask Helmet" invention, as well as the saké warmer you plug into the dash lighter.

I've been trying to find the PA vehicle code open container law. If you look in the PA vehicle code, it says it was repealed in 2000. Not sure what law applies now that that one is not in the vehicle code. The PA LCB website still has some text about it:

RESTRICTION ON ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES

Section 7513 of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code (Title 18)

It is unlawful for any person who is an operator or an occupant in any motor vehicle to be in possession of an open alcoholic beverage container or to consume any alcoholic beverage or controlled substance… in a motor vehicle while the motor vehicle is located on any highway in this commonwealth.

This section does not prohibit possession or consumption by passengers in the passenger areas of a motor vehicle designed, maintained or used primarily for the lawful transportation of persons for compensation, including buses, taxis and limousines, or persons in the living quarters of a house coach or house trailer.

Any person who violates this section commits a summary offense.

Penalty

Fine

0-$300

Jail 0-90 days

This and almost every other code I've come across specifically states "motor vehicle". Are bikes considered just a "vehicle" or do these "motor vehicle" laws also apply?

Non-vehicle open container laws are absurd. Why the hell can't one walk down the sidewalk sipping a beer, or enjoy a glass of wine in the park?

As for the flask: that's what jacket inside-pockets are for.

I dont think the motor vehicle law for open container would apply, but public intoxication, public open container, disorderly conduct, etc would apply. Also DUI would apply as it is worded vehicle, not motor vehicle.

I lived in a city without a non-vehicle open container law. You could drink a beer (or worse!) wherever you wanted.

Unfortunately the homeless population caught on, and migrated in droves. Police couldn't cite them for anything, so they enacted a city ordinance against open containers. On the plus side, parks were exempt from the ordinance.

Ultimately, it depends on what is actually inside the flask. Ride with a flask and a cop is very likely to pull you over. When it turns out to only have iced tea or Gatorade inside he won't be able to arrest you for that. He won't be happy, though.

but what about, say, on the Great Allegheny Passage?

you think the trail monitors will bust you?

well. its my understanding that on the gap trails themselves, they are privately owned. So whatever right of way or easement agreement there is is what you should abide by. Legally anyway. In my experience, as long as you arent flaunting and making an ass of yourself, people dont really care.

So by the letter of the law here, standing on the sidewalk in front of my house with a beer could get me busted.

Also, since my van has no trunk, where do I put my flask while driving?

Standing on your sidewalk could get you arrested, yes by the letter of the law, but probably no in practice unless you are being an ass.

As far as the van, The intent of the law is that addresses accessibility. If it is on a seat in the back or on the floor in the back, then it isnt accessible. If the officer is being a douche and arrests you for it, the judge would likely throw it out.

I thought bikers put their hooch in nalgene bottles, or at least a used plastic soda bottle?

double post

So by the letter of the law here, standing on the sidewalk in front of my house with a beer could get me busted.

In Pittsburgh, yep. But standing in your, or your neighbors (with permission) front yard is all good (provided you aren't "disrupting the peace"). I can picture a scenario where someone exists a bar with beer in hand to have a smoke/phone call/whatever outside on the sidewalk and gets a citation for the beer. This is why most bars here have a big sign telling you can't bring beer outside.

Also, since my van has no trunk, where do I put my flask while driving?

Without having the relevant PA vehicle code its hard to say. I know in Minnesota we put alcohol (sealed or unsealed) as far back as possible.

Keep in mind that if you ever got in an accident though, whatever isn't secured down is going to go flying around. You probably don't want EMS pulling you out of a car with a flask of booze sitting right next to you.

When I wrecked my pickup it had a case of empty beer bottles in the back, unsecured. When it flipped on the roof it made quite a mess.

Fortunately the Ohio State Trooper didn't seem too worried about me being drunk at 10 o'clock in the morning. And I wasn't so it all worked out. Except for the truck.

Geez, if this open container law is that tough, I'm gonnahafta stop my habit of picking up glass beer bottles from roads and parking lots (to take home to recycle), and instead leave them where people will run them over and have a blowout and probably kill someone.

Almost always, when driving, I have a (dirt-covered, bone dry) beer container under the seat, as I'm always picking up empties, both glass and cans. And Wednesday morning I almost got dinged by a glass bottle that got run over whose shards went in 40 directions at some speed.

City council just updated fines for open container violations. First offense (and presumably any thereafter) can now cost you up to $300.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09355/1022618-100.stm

Also, since my van has no trunk, where do I put my flask while driving?

Let me preface this by stating that I have had many VW busses and by proxy have been pulled over countless times and searched.

Also, since my van has no trunk, where do I put my flask while driving?

Let me preface this by stating that I have had many VW busses and by proxy have been pulled over countless times and searched.

The trick is to get a locking briefcase or cheapo lockbox. The police then have to get a warrant to open the box even if it is sitting right next to you.

The best of all is if you can talk the DMV into giving you mobile home plates for it. I got them for one of my vans and, you guessed it, they then need a residential warrant to even open your door. SOOOOO many pissed off cops.

@stu--just keep a blue plastic bag in your car. Put the empties you pick up (and bless you for doing so) in it and *presto* recycling.

@spak, so driving a microbus is the best way to get pulled over?

@spak, so driving a microbus is the best way to get pulled over?

Well...

Not just the micro-bus.

You have to get your weaving chops down to be best at being pulled over.

Most old buses I've driven make you an expert at weaving, no talent or practice needed.

How 'bout this?

props to, heh, Jay Leno for this one.