BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Hmm. Well, when I go through that intersection, I see a lot of people walking there, from the other areas with a lot of stores and apartments, across a street that's too wide. And my experience has been that often people develop theories on what happened in an accident, which are later taken as fact. Best thing to do, IMHO, is to reserve judgment.

I work in East Liberty and have been crossing this intersection almost every day for the past 10 years. When Centre Ave (formerly Penn Circle South) was changed to two way traffic, the signaling at the intersection was rearranged. A lot of traffic traverses this intersection and not everyone is paying attention or following the signals. I ALWAYS (yes, always) wait for the walk signal at this particular intersection. However, I have still come within a few feet of being hit by a car several times. I have also seen the aftermath of several collisions between cars and pedestrians at this intersection. Edit: I'm not saying this is what happened in the instance that was mentioned above, but I think someone in the city government mechanism has to make it so that green arrow is not illuminated while the walk signal is on. I think that would make crossing Penn Ave. a little safer. The way the signaling was rearranged creates an incredibly dangerous situation for anyone crossing Penn Ave. The pedestrian walk signal comes on at the same time as the right turn arrow comes on for people going Eastbound from Centre Ave. to Penn Ave. People driving cars on Centre Ave. think they have ultimate right of way (green arrow) to make that right turn onto Penn Ave. while pedestrians also have right of way crossing Penn Ave. On many many occasions, I've had motorists drive their car within feet of me, inside the crosswalk, and lay on the horn/start screaming because they think I'm jaywalking and in their way while the walk sign is on. When the intersection was new, I talked to a traffic engineer who was on site and told him about this situation. I've called 311 numerous times trying to explain this. Nothing ever happens. Long story short. This is a very busy intersection that is made dangerous by a ill-conceived signaling pattern.

Sorry, I didn't describe the exact place very well. It was not right in front of Target's door, it was up a little at the large crosswalk with a light, not quite to the bridge that goes over the RR tracks. The man was on a stretcher and was going to be taken to the hospital. He looked okay, but had the neck brace on which is protocol. I agree, maybe the people I heard talking were not accurate, but just repeating what I overheard. I didn't stop and ask anyone questions, just kept riding slow because of the people everywhere. All I heard was, "he just walked right in front of a car" and then my experience in that area kicked in, but who knows. For all I know he was pushed in front of a car.

It's tough to determine anything from what you overheard. "He just walked right in front of a car" could mean either the driver or the pedestrian was at fault. That's particularly true at this intersection because cars are given a right turn green arrow while pedestrians are also given a walk signal. Pedestrians have the right of way in that scenario. But he also could have crossed against the signal.

It is an awful design. I don't blame motorists for thinking that pedestrians are crossing against do not walk signal. Is that even legal to give drivers a green turn arrow while peds have a walk signal? Maybe I don't recall my driver's manual as well as I thought, but I don't remember that scenario even being a thing. Perhaps that would explain why, when I cross on foot and press the pedestrian beg button, that I don't see a change in traffic patterns/light cycles at that intersection. I kinda felt like it didn't do a thing to push that button, except make noises and lead you to believe it is doing something for people crossing on foot.

The PA Driver's Manual says "A GREEN ARROW means you may turn the way the arrow points. When you turn during the green arrow phase, your turn is "protected" because oncoming traffic is stopped by a red light. If the green arrow turns into a green light, you may still turn in that direction, but first yield to pedestrians and oncoming traffic." (Pub 95, 4-16, page 7) That last bit implies that drivers seeing a green arrow don't have to yield to pedestrians, as Stef said. If it's definitely a green arrow there (not a green light with a "right turn signal" sign), then either 311ing the issue and/or contacting that message board poster from the CMU group who designed the new signals might be worth doing. I bet if any pedestrian's been hit while crossing there at a Walk, their lawyer would be really interested too.

Where this pedestrian was hit doesn't have anything with where the green arrow is, it is up Penn Avenue towards the bridge that crosses over the train tracks. It was that pedestrian crossing where the man was hit. Again, NOT at the intersection of Penn and Centre. I agree that the Penn and Centre isn't a very good intersection and with that super fast green arrow with idiots crossing in the crosswalk without the walk sign, it is a mess.

Here's a video (kinda shaky, sorry) of the Penn and Center intersection. Shows walk-sign on, and cars speeding through. Audio is pretty important part of the video, it repeats "Penn walk sign is on to cross Penn". I've seen a bunch of people almost get hit while walking in that crosswalk, with the walk sign saying they can walk. If the city/DoT doesn't provide a safe crosswalk, people are going to try to cross in other places, thinking it will be safer.

The Penn+Center intersection needs a major road diet, to waaayyy slow down traffic. What I think would make it safe: 1. make it super-narrow for cars; 2. emphasize the crosswalk with a lot of paint, not just lines on the edges of the crosswalk; 3. extend the sidewalks into the street, so walkers have a much shorter distance to cross; 4. bike-boxes in front of where cars wait for light, at every edge of that intersection; and 5. give pedestrians a pedestrian-only light.

When I reported the dangerous intersection to Pittsburgh's 311 in November of 2013, I got these responses (ended up being a small email chain, basically them making excuses for doing nothing and me saying they should do something or a pedestrian will get hit by a car and killed). They said: 1) "We are in compliance. the green arrow is not active while the pedestrian walk signal is illuminated."; 2) "Lane use control signs are the overhead signs that tell drivers what movements they are permitted from each lane. in addition to the overhead signage, there are also pavement marking legends on the roadway showing that it is a right turn movement." (The problem is fast cars doing a long and wide right-turn on green, the problem is not a green arrow.)

In 2013, there was a neighborhood rally about the dangerous intersection at Center + Penn, and the Department of Public Works promised to do something but they never did anything effective. 1. Advocates seek changes at East Liberty intersection 2. Community advocates demand walkable streets in East Liberty