BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Posted somewhere else on the board, but if you can believe what you read on the internet, it stems from a time when we had less standard traffic signals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Left

If you've ever tried to make a left at Murray/Forbes in heavy traffic, you'd be glad this cultural phenomenon exists.

I probably would but I'm just trying to safely cross the street.

Jumping the light is illegal -- it's failure to yield. But giving up the right-of-way and waving someone across is not illegal. I think it's good that at least some vestiges of courtesy remain.

Your point about crosswalks notwithstanding...

The city ran a couple of crosswalk stings this year (and I probably owe Bike Pittsburgh a bet settlement...) but they should run lots more.

Wow, hey thanks for the wiki link. I didn't realize it was a provincial institution. It's a courtesy. Not a danger to pedestrians. As someone who has almost been hit crossing the street it seems inconsiderate, even slightly dangerous. It's cool though, i'll try and be careful and stay out of the way.

One thing I have found tho in biking, is that drivers are less likely and often times upset when I try to make PittLeft in front of them on my bike..

On a bike.. how DARE he!!! If I was in my car tho, no problem, go ahead.

I do agree that it adds to the directions you have to watch for as a pedestrian.

I don't even attempt it on my bike anymore. Besides, I could use the rest.

I'm gestured/flashed through at times for a Pittsburgh left, especially at Fifth and Morewood. Saves me time & it probably would confuse everyone more if I didn't go for it.

I understand how it's a courtesy when two lines of traffic face each other at a light. Sure let a car, even two move in front of you. That's nice, That was my initial impression. Then I started walking in Pittsburgh, pushing a baby stroller up and down Butler, Penn, Liberty and all the side streets. Then this "courtesy" got annoying, dangerous even. When a pedestrian is crossing the street pushing a baby stroller and your turning left in front of him, then it is illegal. The institution of this maneuver makes drivers believe they're entitled to do this, even here it's defended. This entitlement extends to all kinds of bad driving, motorists don't stop at crosswalks, they stop at the cross street, instead of the stop sign. They drive and park all over the sidewalks. I don't cross a street without confirmation that the driver see's me, I wave. They can't wave back because they're on the phone.

It's a dangerous world out there. Be careful.

IMO, (speaking as a driver) the person offering to yield to allow the p'left HAS to be cognizant of everything else going on, if there are peds waiting to cross, don't even offer the turn, this "courtesy" will just bollix everything up.

Conversely, there needs to be a standardized signal for declining the p'left, like when you don't want to run over peds, or other conditions don't allow it, as others have observed.

It would also help if peds would actually heed the crossing signals.

When I'm walking I don't even look at the signal anymore. It's just not dependable. I'll wait until the traffic deems it safe to cross.

"a standardized signal for declining the p'left"

I raise both hands and put them in plain view. off the wheel, or the handlebars, as the case may be.

One thing that drives me crazy (as a fellow driver or a cyclist) is "courteous" drivers.

People who stop to let the other guy turn in front of them, when they don't realize there's another lane of traffic to their right, or that they're really just effing more things up for the people behind them. Courtesy without full awareness of everything else that's going on around you is stupid and dangerous.

I appreciate that their intentions are good. I just wish they'd think about the bigger picture.

I saw a driver being courteous wave somebody directly into an accident. I was in the car that got waved into the accident. Nobody's fault really, well technically It was my friends fault for being waved into traffic. He should have been paying better attention.

I was stopped at Forbes/Bigelow at a red light, heading toward CMU from Pitt. A driver coming up from Schenley Plaza, who had a green light, stopped and waved me on, trying to be courteous.

I was trackstanding on the crosswalk and I guess they thought I was going to dart in front of them or something. wtf.

In high school someone waved a car out into traffic and promptly t-boned me. Only car accident I've been in to date, I was pissed.

Once again tonight I face the problem of being a pedestrian in a pro-car society, I'm waiting to cross 40th street, standing on Butler, the sidewalk actually, this is one of those intersections with no additional pedestrian signage. The driver turning left has a green arrow. I wait until the signal turns green for me to start crossing. I'm with my wife pushing our baby in a stroller, a friend is with us walking her baby. Some guy in a big hurry, speeding up to make sure he gets the light, makes it 6 maybe 8 feet in front of us, basically cutting us off. I yell and motion that this is a crosswalk. He stops his car and actually yells at us, we should pay attention. His driving is fine. We should pay attention. I guess menacing someone with your car, isn't satisfactory. He wants to fight me because I want to cross the street and I get in his way. So perhaps one of these days, one of the inconsequential costs that I pay will be a broken nose, maybe it will be an injured child. It's gonna be something because I'm tired of people threatening me with their autos.

He wants to fight me because I want to cross the street and I get in his way

From what you've described, I think he wanted to fight you because you were pointing out his bad behavior, not because you were in his way. Probably means that he was at least somewhat aware of being a jackass, or he wouldn't have reacted so defensively.

Not to say that you *shouldn't* tell people when they're being dumb/careless/dangerous; just be aware that doing so is more likely to escalate, not de-escalate, a situation.

Me and my wife discussed this after he furiously speed off. Her opinion was he stopped because I was yelling. I asked her how he knew I was yelling at him. I didn't yell his name, and I doubt it's "CROSSWALK". So that's part of my amazement he knew that he was wrong but he was still defending his driving. Dudes totally unconcerned that he could of easily hit a small child, if this unpredictable child darted maybe six feet ahead of his mother.

If making someone aware they're driving illegally and dangerously is escalating a situation, then that's what I'm doing. Do you have any recommendations on what I should do?

Dude, do not fight. Pull out a cell phone and loudly and clearly announce that you are calling the police and walk to a safe place where you can see their license plate. You would be astounded how rapidly most a**holes jump in their cars and head on their way. If the situation does escalate, you'll already be on the phone to the authorities. And the next time this fool sees a pedestrian they will be a lot less likely to view them as helpless sidewalk bait.

^^^Wot 'e said.

There's a time and place...choosing to escalate a situation, when your family is around, should be undertaken a little more carefully than if it's just you and your U-lock, knowwhatimean?

Being right is no comfort when someone innocent gets hurt. Trust me on this.

I agree and that's what happened, after I suggested he slow down and pay attention lest he run over a small child. I took a picture of him and noted his plate number. I deal with this every day. I'm not jaywalking, I'm obeying the law. I've got a right to cross the street. It's interesting how, even here, it's interpreted as me escalating the situation. I just yelled, CROSSWALK, while standing in a crosswalk. I wasn't going to fight anybody, he threatened me, first with his car, then verbally.