BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

« Back to Archive
163

Another PG bicycle letter - 21JUN13

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/city-bike-lanes-692524/ I think what the writer (car driver) interprets as the cyclist running red lights to be more likely that the cyclist was filtering up past the stopped cars to the front of the queue. Surely someone with a 4-foot sign on their bike was not blowing through stop sign and red lights. This would explain why the driver passed the same cyclist multiple times. I wonder how many other drivers equate 'filtering' to 'light running'? BTW, I sometimes filter on Ellsworth (which is legal!), but more often I just sit in traffic if I'm not in a hurry.
marko82
2013-06-21 08:01:18
How is Ellsworth in the daytime on weekdays? I often go down Ellsworth in the evenings or on the weekends and I find it very enjoyable.
andyc
2013-06-21 08:35:13
My favorite part of this letter is that she "keep[s] in mind that [she doesn't] know who might get angry with confrontation and perhaps pull out a gun." I don't know about yinz, but for some reason I think concealed carry might be difficult/uncomfortable on a bike. Then again, I started wearing a hip pack with a ulock holster and that isn't too horrible. Which gets me thinking...
lizzimac
2013-06-21 09:08:32
Additional thought: I generally dislike arguments against cyclists (or any entity for that matter) that are n=1. Who has the time to write a letter to the editor for every law infraction they see? I know I don't.
lizzimac
2013-06-21 09:10:42
I don't know the rider in question and won't make assumptions. I will say for my part that I took my 4 ft. sign off my rear rack a ways back not because I don't want 4 ft, but because I didn't want to be a subject of an editorial since I did start Bogarting more. What most drivers don't think about when they complain about having to pass the same cyclist multiple times is that the number of cyclists they pass depends on number of cyclists going the same way, average relative velocity, and distance of the route. So if cyclists are riding in a way that increases their overall speed, relative velocity drops and the driver "has to" execute fewer passing maneuvers than they would otherwise. The "has to" wording itself contains a bad assumption, that the holdup is worth stressing. On short distances of urban roads with lots of lights, assuming the bicycle rider is going a decent clip, the travel time difference between repeatedly trying to get past the bicycle and just staying behind is really nominal. And that travel time difference drops to nothing or often the bike is faster if there are good opportunities which they seize to move ahead through intersections. In terms of running reds and filtering, I actually see them as two sides of the same coin. Yes, one is illegal and another is legal, but fundamentally they're both behaviors that can be quite dodgy if done wrong but really aren't if done responsibly. For instance, I only filter if there's good clearance and have very strong reason to believe that I'll be able to then get through the intersection before cars and have some space/time to myself on the road. Otherwise, what's the benefit? And while I don't think filtering past a stopped car with less is a problem, likely leaving yourself in that position when it's time to move again shows that you don't care to ride in a way that makes 4 feet possible. I like 4 feet and want drivers to respect it. They may not like when I filter past, but if I don't do it when it's close and dodgy and am off by the time they need to move maybe they'll understand what I'm doing and not feel an urge to buzz me in response to the imagined slight of my being in their space.
byogman
2013-06-21 09:16:03
Will. not. read. comments. Will. not. read. comments.
ajbooth
2013-06-21 12:03:16
+100 to ajbooth. It's too nice of a Friday for me to read the comments on this one, either. Present to myself.
lizzimac
2013-06-21 12:05:33
If she doesn't want to deal with cyclists at stop signs/red lights, why doesn't she go to 5th Ave? That road is plenty wide enough for both bikes and cars. (well depending on the section) I had a lady born on her horn a year or so ago when there was no opposing traffic and I wasn't even in the middle of the lane
sgtjonson
2013-06-21 16:00:50
People don't understand they're allowed to cross the double yellow, or they're just annoyed at being slowed down.
jonawebb
2013-06-21 19:32:20
Why is slowing down to practically 0 mph without putting a foot down considered "running a stop sign" when cars roll stop signs all the time. If fear of someone packing keeps her from being an asshole, great, but what does it have to do with cycling? I am not renewing my home delivery subscription to the PG. This year, these letters, they finally broke me.
sarah_q
2013-06-22 09:59:52
My hypthesis: I think a lot of people think of their driving time as an opportunity to catch up on phone calls, or to zone out and think about what they need to do at work/buy at the store/etc. When they see a cyclist and actually have to pay attention to their driving while they navigate around us, they seriously resent the interruption to their "me time." To them, we're like door-to-door salespeople who ring the doorbell while they're trying to eat dinner. All of this "they break laws/don't pay gas tax" business is just bullshit rationalization.
joanne
2013-06-22 10:53:58
I'm struck by how annoyed people get when I take a lane (during my commute) on a four-lane road, and they have to slightly slow down and change lanes to pass me. Sometimes they'll buzz me instead. Maybe it is just the distraction, having to think about what they're doing, instead of just running on autopilot. Of course they'd have no problem doing the same for, say, a mail truck, but me, I'm just lollygagging along, out for fun, while they're busy on the way to work.
jonawebb
2013-06-22 11:34:01
^The same thing happens to me--that's exactly why I think the hatred is not even about us slowing them down. They're used to passing other cars, mail trucks, etc., so it doesn't interrupt their reverie.
joanne
2013-06-22 12:18:09
No point reading the comments. No point adding to the comments. Kinda like hearing "Mrs Robinson" on an oldies station. You've heard the song 50 times before. After a while, it just becomes noise.
stuinmccandless
2013-06-22 13:36:15
At bike night at the Science Center last night, we came across this gem, which is arguably what the woman in the letter was afraid of. Perhaps the cyclist-in-question's bicycle sported one of these handy holsters, replete with firearm!
lizzimac
2013-06-22 15:34:33
StuInMcCandless wrote:No point reading the comments. No point adding to the comments.
I sort of disagree. It's actually gratifying to see every anti-bike comment get smothered by multiple pro-bike retorts. And I believe it also has a useful educational effect: People start to notice that anti-bike attitudes somehow don't seem to fit into the ongoing public discourse; the majority of comments are pro-bike. Just remember to be calm and simply deal with their faulty reasoning; that's actually kind of easy...
ahlir
2013-06-22 17:18:55
Ahlir wrote:And I believe it also has a useful educational effect: People start to notice that anti-bike attitudes somehow don’t seem to fit into the ongoing public discourse; the majority of comments are pro-bike. Just remember to be calm and simply deal with their faulty reasoning; that’s actually kind of easy…
I agree. At some point people will realize the future is going to be more about cycling. Look how fast cycling is growing. People realize that you get in shape and save a TON of money. Also, it is fun. Post away.
gg
2013-06-22 23:30:41
So I chime in with a positive message, and guess who responds, saying guess what. James Love · Springdale High School Bike lanes would be great and others wouldn't mind sharing the roads if bikers obeyed laws like everyone else. Reply · Like · 44 minutes ago This was about a half hour after a long, stupid conversation on a post of mine about cycling in McKees Rocks.
stuinmccandless
2013-06-23 15:51:20
@Stu: I just checked; there's already two pro-bike comments on that thread.
ahlir
2013-06-23 17:01:00
andyc wrote:How is Ellsworth in the daytime on weekdays? I often go down Ellsworth in the evenings or on the weekends and I find it very enjoyable.
Generally, Ellsworth is a perfectly acceptable cycling road. Probably one of the better ones. You do, however, get to experience all kinds of wonderful realities of riding a bike: The section by the Busway is concrete and full of those lovely lane-wide cracks. The section below Highland Avenue is crazy narrow. The pavement between the pedestrian bridge and College Ave. is a crazy moonscape -- but no more so than the rest of the city. Between College and Negly, you run the risk of hitting/being hit by a drunk and/or tourist and/or University parent who can't find their kid's apartment. From Negly to N. Nevile, the road opens up and you'll be dodging faster traffic. But it's not that fast (generally) and can be relatively courteous (again, generally).
justray
2013-06-24 10:23:02
Ellsworth is a candidate for a 20 mph speed limit.
stuinmccandless
2013-06-24 11:23:58
15
cburch
2013-06-24 12:11:19
Sara Crooks · Top Commenter · Thiel College I live in Oakland and pretty much walk everywhere (and I don't jaywalk - only going when I have the signal or in crosswalks when there is no light.) I can say that both cyclists and drivers are jerks. I almost get knocked down by cyclists riding on sidewalks at full speed and blowing through intersections as much I almost get hit by cars turning right on red or blowing through the crosswalk on Bigelow by Pitt. Yeah, I know getting hit by a car will probably cause me more damage than getting knocked down by a cyclist, but a bike going 15-20 MPH will still cause some hurt and there's nothing I can do about it because the cyclist will likely just bike away and I won't even have a license plate to track him down. Just thought I'd post a commenter that might have avalid point that isn't preaching to the choir here.
mick
2013-06-24 12:23:51
Some simplifications for easy math. 30mph is a mile in 2 minutes, at 20mph it takes 3 minutes. Ellsworth is what, a little over 2 miles? So, the delay we're talking about is 2 minutes over the length, on the order of 1 light cycle and there are good alternates available. Relationship of Vehicle Speed to Odds of Pedestrian Death in Collision here: http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm. Conservatively, the road becomes a little over 7 times safer for pedestrians for these couple of minutes. Closing speed car traffic to cyclist drops, we'll say 15mph cycling, 3 fold. Attendant risks from inattention drop by a larger factor since people look away frequently for short periods, much less frequently for longer. Also, the "have to pass" feeling edges off by a factor of 2 since we're talking about best case 3 minutes per mile (not 2) vs. 4. 20mph limits (with enforcement) is the way to go in quite a lot of places.
byogman
2013-06-24 12:27:42
Enforced 20mph limits would also cut out a lot of road riding anxiety and result in a lot less sidewalk riding. I think it's a reasonable first cut answer to Sarah Crook's concern.
byogman
2013-06-24 12:43:48
Seems to me speed limits in Pittsburgh are rarely lower than 25 mph even for small side streets. Meyron Street in Oakland, say, has a sign for 25 mph speed limit. So I think it's unlikely to get the spped limit for Ellsworth below 25. Also, pretty silly, since they don't enforce the speed limit in the city anyhow. Getting enforcement is the issue, IMO, not the particulars of the actual speed limit.
mick
2013-06-24 13:11:09
No, I'm sticking to my guns. 20. Then friggin' enforce it. The point is, make Ellsworth a road to NOT take if you're in a car. Hie thee over to Fifth and drive, if you must drive. NYC has a "twenty is plenty" program on a lot of streets, and it works. Butler St is another one. So are Sarah and Muriel from 10th to Hot Metal. But start with Ellsworth.
stuinmccandless
2013-06-24 15:53:40
BTW, there is like a 100 foot section of Craig St. with a 20mph limit - anyone know the story on that? Seriously, the second sign you can see (below the blue Truro Pl. sign) is "END Speed Limit 20": http://goo.gl/maps/HC5th "20 is plenty" would be a great campaign to have here. The problem is by state law (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter212/s212.108.html) you need to do a traffic study to reduce the speed limit. We need a law like the one they just passed in NJ to remove that requirement: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/05/nj_assembly_panel_clears_bill.html
salty
2013-06-24 22:20:31
I agree with Mick that until enforcement becomes even a vague threat, more laws aren't going to do shit The 4' law should prove that if anything does While riding today, I was thinking it might be cool in some situations to have roadways have different speed limits depending on the lane. So the inner lanes could be faster, the outer lanes slower, and then the bike lanes/shoulders. The idea came to me while riding on the Rankin Bridge Has Bill Peduto said anything about these issues? Has anybody from Bike-PGH raised the question? When he was running for the primary, his site mentioned graffiti and loitering being a focus, and I was like "Who cares about "loitering?"" His site now talks about police reform, but doesn't actually say what kind of work he wants to police to do.
sgtjonson
2013-06-24 22:47:21
Talking about speed limits and lanes. 2nd from end of concrete surface and pass Brady St towards downtown may be 100 yards got repaved. And they did some repainting of lines... Outgoing directions has now two lanes clearly marked on new pavement. And incoming side is not marked as two lanes. So for the moment we have a three lane road. If I remember correctly some official advised to take a whole lane both directions since this is a two lane two way road. PS I've heard that there is not enough width on a 2nd from 10th bridge up to Brady to make 4 12 feet wide lanes (only 4 10 feet lanes). It would be ideal if we have 6 feet bike lanes (one each directions) on this stretch.
mikhail
2013-06-25 09:53:07
Oh marko, I was having a lovely morning, watching Jens rip up the mountain....
edmonds59
2013-07-20 09:19:15
My response: Perhaps Mr. Bronder should spend more time learning the actual traffic laws and less time writing letters to the editor - who also has a duty to do a little fact checking before publishing incorrect information. 75 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 3307 (b.1) explicitly permits crossing the centerline when overtaking a cyclist, even in a no-passing zone. http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/75/00.033.007.000..HTM
salty
2013-07-20 09:42:28
I'm so glad that my browser ends up blocking comments, so as to not get pulled into the fray... that said, go salty!!!
headloss
2013-07-20 10:41:29
Nice Salty.
edmonds59
2013-07-20 10:52:24
BTW, the link worked in my comment on the PG but the board seems to have mangled it. Let's try this again since I can't edit the original post. http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/75/00.033.007.000..HTM I wonder if it's the weird double dot before the extension (which is required). Edit: It got mangled again, let's try again with an explicit a href=... Edit 2: Nope, strike 2... ok, maybe a short link will work. http://goo.gl/AeUR6
salty
2013-07-20 11:09:04
It looks mangled, but it works... I think they call that a parsed-link? Having a "short link" is redundant, so long as the parsed link works. If you want to show the full address, I think you need to take the "www" out of it so that it doesn't post as a hyper link.
headloss
2013-07-20 11:26:55
I rarely paste a bare link. I almost always build the HTML "A" tag, then paste the URL between the quotes as the very last thing. Substituting angle brackets for square ones: The beginning of your sentence [a href="yourURLgoeshere"]your text goes here and will become a clickable link[/A] then the rest of the sentence. Always works.
stuinmccandless
2013-07-20 11:58:20
People like this reinforce the idea that we need to be tested when you renew your driver's license.
rsprake
2013-07-20 16:25:27
Another Driver In need of Clarifying Knowledge (DICK, for short).
ahlir
2013-07-20 17:32:35
My response to that PG letter: Bronder states that "the roads were not designed for cyclists". He's ignorant. Many of Pittsburgh's roads were designed during its growth spurt around 1900, before cars existed. They were designed for horses, horse-drawn carriages, and yes, for bicycles. Much of the early paving of roads was done to support cyclists. Google "Good Roads Movement" to learn the history. Cars came later. In many cases it would be more correct to say "Pittsburgh roads were not designed for cars". Maybe you've noticed how narrow our roads are?
paulheckbert
2013-07-20 22:33:41
boy, i say! this is yet another in a series of letters to the editor where the letter itself was anti-bicycling, but the comments were almost universally pro-bicycling. i would actually consider this to be rather refreshing, if i weren't so annoyed that the post-gazette publishes this crap in the first place.
hiddenvariable
2013-07-20 23:48:35
I love all the comments. The writer and the 2 other anti bike commenters got their shit hammered down pretty thoroughly. Nice work hammerers!
edmonds59
2013-07-21 07:03:30
@HiddenVariable and edmonds59 -- I suspect the reason they do it because it stirs up controversy with differing viewpoints. Letters to the editor is one of the most popular and commonly-read features in a newspaper. That translates into sales of the paper so people can read them (or so the thinking goes). But aren't they maybe actually doing us a favor? By printing these letters and the overwhelming positive pro-cycling responses, aren't they actually promoting our viewpoint to the general public that bikes belong on the road just as much as cars and we aren't going away? Whether or not this is their actual intention.
cdavey
2013-07-21 07:29:44
Oh I agree! I have no problem seeing these in the paper, then seeing a flotilla of rational responses. It's an opportunity.
edmonds59
2013-07-21 07:44:44
Sent to the P-G under the ridiculous assumption that they might actually print a counter argument: I am writing regarding the letter 4-foot impossibility in the July 20 Post-Gazette. I would like to thank Mr Bronder for “doing the math” to support the law. You are correct Mr. Bronder, you cannot legally pass a cyclist within the same lane of travel. It is, in fact, impossible. So, what to do? It is actually quite simple, according to the law. Slow down and wait for your opportunity to safely pass the cyclist. If you are on a two lane road, change lanes. If you are on a one lane road, wait until there is no oncoming traffic, and pass the cyclist at a safe speed, allowing four feet of clearance. The same law that requires you to provide the four foot clearance also allows you to cross a double yellow line if needed to pass safely. As for the “registration fee” argument, it is getting old. Cyclists pay taxes to the same local, state, and federal bodies to which a motorist pays taxes. Registration fees do not pay for roads. Even if they did, most cyclists also own cars, and pay the same fee. Rather than paying “nothing” we pay the same things that motorists pay, albeit less gas tax than someone who doesn’t cycle. However, cyclists also cause significantly less wear and tear on roadways. If you want to “abolish this law” then contact your legislators and ask them to do so. But I respectfully suggest having a better argument than the one posed in your letter.
ajbooth
2013-07-21 11:31:42
Btw, they print a lot of letters. Ajbooth's letter has a good chance of being printed. When they get a bunch of letters on the same topic they print a selection. So don't just respond in the comments, send a rational response of 250 words or less to the editor, on the website.
jonawebb
2013-07-21 12:04:00
I just submitted this letter: I am constantly seeing people in vehicles who are neglecting to stop at stop signs, who run red lights, who fail to yield to the pedestrian right of way, drive above the speed limit, or don't use turn signals when turning, passing, and changing lanes. It's infuriating to me, because these actions can, and often do, result in the taking of human lives. My main gripe with rolling stop signs and running red lights is that I always hear motorists saying that cyclists don't stop for these, while they themselves aren't doing it either. Motorists also seem to forget that the speed limit is called such, because is it a maximum. Meaning, "Drive even one mile per hour above this, and you are breaking the law, and should be ticketed." Pittsburgh has so many narrow streets, and driving more than 10 mph on some of them is downright reckless. On top of excessive speeding, Too many drivers are distracted. When I wait for the bus, my hobby is to count how many people who are driving are also texting, talking on their phones, putting on makeup, eating, or otherwise not looking at the road. Road rage is another enormous danger to the people in our city. I sometimes see people driving the speed limit, or perhaps even a few miles per hour below, and there will almost always be an angry, impatient driver behind them revving their engine, tailgating, hoking, or throwing their hands up in frustration. I don not feel safe while people who are this angry that they're 45 seconds behind on their commute are on the road. Traffic cops in this town need to be more vigilant in their ticketing. If a bunch of people get ticketed for driving 5mph over the speed limit, maybe people will get the hint that their behavior isn't safe, and can kill someone? One can only hope. Motorized vehicles are heavy machinery - I think of them as a faster, less useful forklift. They should operated with extreme caution and diligence, especially since they can kill a person with very little force. On that note, I also think it should be more difficult to obtain and keep a driver's license. You should be re-tested every time you renew, because new traffic laws seem to be passed all the time. I wish there was also a 3 strikes type deal for road rage - if you're involved in 3 road rage incidents, you have to either pass an anger management course, or never drive again. Friends say my ideas are harsh, but would you rather be inconvenienced every few years, or have the guilt of killing or maiming a person hanging over your head because you had to get to work 2 minutes earlier? -- Erica Peters Business Owner, Bloomfield
rubberfactory
2013-07-21 15:29:11
Excellent letter, Erica! Hope it gets published, I'm almost looking forward to beating down the comment trolls.
salty
2013-07-21 16:56:30
I think they are going to print mine; I have received two calls from the P-G Editorial staff confirming that I wrote the letter, and that it was intended for publication. Feeling feisty, I may even dive into the comments if they run it...
ajbooth
2013-07-22 17:04:16
Woohoo!!
edmonds59
2013-07-23 05:50:33
"I respectfully suggest having a better argument." Nice.
kordite
2013-07-23 07:00:07
So the fifth grader in me (yes, he's still in there) finds it funny that the first person to comment is named Strahs...or "shart" backwards. Methinks I may have sharted... Good to see that most of the comments are positive.
ajbooth
2013-07-23 08:14:16
Unlike many (or all) of us, I am fairly certain "John Strahs" isn't that guys real name, or its a "John Strahs" that doesn't live in the Pittsburgh area. I did some research n'at. Nothing popped up. Overall, that was one good letter. I've wrote a few, but mine have not been published yet. Writing informative, non-flaming letters like further distinguishes us from the angry-driver sect. I love it.
mlinwood25
2013-07-23 11:33:37
mlinwood, I think unfortunately he's "real". Has a facebook page, and likes, among other things, Ted Nugent. I really have no idea how to react to that. LOL, SMH, or TUINMAL (throwing up in my mouth a little).
edmonds59
2013-07-23 12:23:45
I was asked to trim my letter down by about 160 words. Looking for every opportunity to use hyphenated words right now. As of now, I still need to trim 51 more words: Our city is unsafe with the unlawful driving practices of Pittsburgh motorists. The speed limit, turn signals, and yielding to pedestrians are not suggestions. My main gripe with rolling stop signs and running red lights is that I always hear motorists saying that cyclists don't stop for these, while they themselves aren't doing it either. Motorists also seem to forget that the speed limit is called such, because is it a maximum. Meaning, "Driving one mile per hour above this? You're breaking the law, and should be ticketed." Pittsburgh has so many narrow streets, and driving more than 10 mph on some of them is downright reckless. On top of excessive speeding, Too many drivers are distracted. When I wait for the bus, my hobby is to count how many people who are driving are also texting or talking on their phones. Road rage is another enormous danger to the people in our city. I sometimes see people driving the speed limit, and there will almost always be an angry, impatient driver behind them  revving their engine, tailgating, hoking, or throwing their hands up in frustration. I do not feel safe while people who are this angry that they're 45 seconds behind are on the road. Police need to be more vigilant in their ticketing. If a bunch of people get ticketed for driving 5mph over the speed limit, people might get the hint that their behavior isn't safe, and can kill someone? Hopefully Automobiles are heavy machinery - they're faster, less useful forklifts. They must operated with extreme caution, especially since they can kill a person with minimal force. It should be more difficult to obtain and keep your license. You should be re-tested every time you renew, because new traffic laws seem to be passed all the time. There should be a 3-strikes deal for road rage. Involved in 3 road rage incidents? Either pass an anger management course, or never drive again.   Driving is not a right. It is a privilege that you earn and can be revoked any time.
rubberfactory
2013-07-23 14:15:42
Erica, here's my stab at editing it down to 250 words: Pittsburgh is unsafe due to motorists ignoring speed limits and turn signals, and not yielding to pedestrians. Motorists often say cyclists don’t stop for stop signs—but they don’t either. Motorists seem to forget that the speed limit is a maximum: driving one mph above it is against the law. Driving more than 10 mph on Pittsburgh’s many narrow streets is reckless. Police need to be more vigilant in their ticketing. If the speed limits were strictly enforced, people might get the hint that their behavior can kill someone. And too many drivers are distracted. Waiting for the bus, my hobby is to count how many drivers are texting or talking on their phones. Road rage is another enormous danger. I have seen people driving the speed limit, almost always followed by an angry, impatient driver revving their engine, tailgating, honking, or throwing their hands up in frustration. I do not feel safe when there are drivers who are this angry that they’re delayed by 45 seconds. Automobiles are heavy machinery – they’re faster, less useful forklifts. They must be operated with extreme caution since they can easily kill. It should be more difficult to obtain and keep your license. Drivers should be retested at every renewal, because new traffic laws are passed all the time. There should be a 3-strikes deal for road rage, with a required anger management course for offenders. Driving is not a right. It is a privilege that you earn that can be revoked any time.
jonawebb
2013-07-23 14:50:32
Funny things in the comments: someone from Upper Saint Clair calling someone from Mt Lebanon 'hoity toity'. Scary things from the comments: the fact that someone who says 'I hope our paths never cross' to Andy lives so close to Andy.
rustyred
2013-07-23 17:01:45
That guy comments on pretty much every bike article. He's nothing but a pathetic jackass and it's best to ignore his idiotic trolling.
salty
2013-07-23 17:08:30
salty wrote:That guy comments on pretty much every bike article. He’s nothing but a pathetic jackass and it’s best to ignore his idiotic trolling.
Indeed, I had an overwhelming urge to make light of his fascination with spandex panties, but I restrained myself.
rustyred
2013-07-23 18:13:26
RustyRed wrote:Indeed, I had an overwhelming urge to make light of his fascination with spandex panties, but I restrained myself.
You and I both...the phrase "twisted f&@#ing fantasies" came to mind before I thought better of it. He strikes me as a keyboard bully--similar to a motorist who screams at you from the car, but then turns meek and mild when you roll up next to them at a light.
ajbooth
2013-07-23 21:16:11
My comment on Andy Booth's letter to the editor: The more people that ride a bike or walk instead of driving a car, the better! Compared to driving a car, riding a bike is cheaper, healthier, quieter, less polluting, less smelly, and takes up less space. It doesn't contribute to global warming, and it keeps you in better touch with your neighborhood than cocooning in a car. The more people that bike to the store, to work, to school, or to their friend's house, the lower our rate of diabetes, the lower our health care costs, the lower our stress, and the higher our longevity and happiness will be! I'm looking forward to the continued rise in the popularity of bicycling in Pittsburgh.
paulheckbert
2013-07-23 22:36:27
shaved mine down to 300 words (turned a lot of "do not"s into "don't"s), and re-submitted. because they responded at all, I get the feeling mine will be published
rubberfactory
2013-07-24 10:30:07
Nice to see the "ho-hum" reaction to the trolls today...I picture them both checking the site 20 times a day to see if they've gotten anyone to bite.
ajbooth
2013-07-25 12:50:16
If this is the same Mike Kelly I've met, he's a pretty good dude - the big idea used to rent one of his spaces.
rubberfactory
2013-07-25 14:46:11
also, I got a call to let me know that my letter will run this saturday
rubberfactory
2013-07-25 18:04:08
Erica wrote:also, I got a call to let me know that my letter will run this saturday
That is great news! I'm glad that they are running as many as they are. I suspect that by Saturday there will be an anti-cycling letter or two, so yours will be a really good counter balance.
ajbooth
2013-07-25 21:27:49
ajbooth wrote:
Erica wrote:also, I got a call to let me know that my letter will run this saturday
That is great news! I’m glad that they are running as many as they are. I suspect that by Saturday there will be an anti-cycling letter or two, so yours will be a really good counter balance.
They called me Wednesday and said mine would run 'in the coming days'. :D
rustyred
2013-07-25 22:12:30
LizziMac wrote: At bike night at the Science Center last night, we came across this gem, which is arguably what the woman in the letter was afraid of. Perhaps the cyclist-in-question’s bicycle sported one of these handy holsters, replete with firearm!
LizziMac wrote: At bike night at the Science Center last night, we came across this gem, which is arguably what the woman in the letter was afraid of. Perhaps the cyclist-in-question’s bicycle sported one of these handy holsters, replete with firearm!
,,,,That bicycle is from Bicycle Heaven bike shop museum in Pittsburgh,,,Big John W bike,,,GLAD YOU LIKED IT
bicycle-heaven
2013-07-25 22:46:11
It would be great if we could get the media more involved - PG seems to be doing a pretty decent job lately posting perspectives from the cyclist side of things - but what about encouraging local tv/print news to get a reporter out there on a bike wearing front & back pointed cams for a week? Would be a good way to educate drivers & cyclists both on common errors, legal misinterpretations, and better behaviors.
quizbot
2013-07-25 23:05:26
quizbot wrote:what about encouraging local tv/print news to get a reporter out there on a bike
The PG columnist Brian O’Neil usually writes about topical stuff & has written about riding bikes with his daughters in the past. I think an opinion piece done by someone like him would be a good fit.
marko82
2013-07-26 07:27:36
ajbooth wrote:
RustyRed wrote:And, here it is: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/fell
Excellent letter! Thanks for adding another log to the fire. A warning, I’m feeling a little feisty today, and I’ve wallowed into the muck of the comments section…
Good point, why are the trolls dragging my husband into this discussion? The first thing he said to me this morning was, "Congratulations, ignore what the crackpots are writing."
rustyred
2013-07-26 08:16:06
Marko82 wrote: I guess the crazys sleep in late on Saturday.
Makes me wonder if it's outpatient MH day or a morning anger management class. Congrats Erica!
rustyred
2013-07-27 12:40:00
I added a comment to Matthew Jacob's letter http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/misinformed-debate-696610/, keeping the discussion positive, rather than responding to the "trolls": I agree with Matthew Jacob's letter - more car drivers should dust off their bikes, put some air in the tires, and try Pittsburgh's bike trails (they're nice!) and also ride on roads some, to get a better sense of what the roads feel like from the perspective of a cyclist. (If you need tips on where to go, see http://www.friendsoftheriverfront.org/files/heritage_trail.html) After doing so, even if you don't make cycling it a habit, I wouldn't be surprised if you drove a little slower near cyclists, gave them more distance when passing, looked back to check for cyclists before opening your car door when parallel-parked. Because of the resurgence of bicycling, getting used to more bicycles on the roads is something we'll all need to adapt to and participate in.
paulheckbert
2013-07-27 22:44:19
And my comment on Mike Kelly's "Roads Are For All" letter (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/roads-are-for-all-696718/): Have you seen how many people bicycle in cities like Amsterdam? See pictures at http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/. Probably we can't replicate that exactly, since America is far bigger, and Pittsburgh is certainly far hillier, and its weather is more extreme, than Amsterdam's, but I'm sure there are some good ideas about cities and health and economical commuting to be learned from their example.
paulheckbert
2013-07-27 23:08:21
Oh Red you suckered me in too.
edmonds59
2013-08-01 09:49:41
I'm almost tempted to undo the blocking software so that I can comment... almost. Someone should inform Mrs. Baker that common-sense dictates driving for conditions. If she can't see around a blind curve, than she probably shouldn't be driving at the speed-LIMIT. There could be a car around the corner, a cyclist, a 500# gorilla, or an extra large banana peel... *sigh*
headloss
2013-08-01 10:04:04
My two cents: Ms. Baker: your letter has convinced me that you drive at an unsafe speed on Wildwood Road, but nothing more. You need to slow down before you hurt someone.
paulheckbert
2013-08-01 10:40:29
Drewbacca wrote:I’m almost tempted to undo the blocking software so that I can comment… almost. Someone should inform Mrs. Baker that common-sense dictates driving for conditions. If she can’t see around a blind curve, than she probably shouldn’t be driving at the speed-LIMIT. There could be a car around the corner, a cyclist, a 500# gorilla, or an extra large banana peel… *sigh*
Everyone's hammering her about going so fast around a blind curve. This is one of those letters that the PG prints that they know will spark more letters. I'd write another one, but I'm under the 3 month rule.
rustyred
2013-08-01 13:09:56
Not. Even. Gonna. Look.
stuinmccandless
2013-08-01 13:56:41
Right before the hill and turns on wildwood rd. A sign warning you to share the road with a picture of a bike on it.
benzo
2013-08-01 15:51:49
re @Benzo: ahh, what did we ever do before the days of the interwebs? But actually Wildwood continues on the other side of 8 so maybe that's where the confrontation took place. And that bike sign is on the way to the park. Apart from that, I assume that the speed limit would be 25mph on that road, either side of 8. Most bikers (me included) would probably be bombing down a "steep downhill" at 25mph or more...
ahlir
2013-08-01 16:45:52
I also like how she insinuates it would be a cyclists' fault if somebody else was tailgating her and slammed into her if she hit the brakes I also don't see the connection between the law and her dilemma Would the solution to this situation to be to try and squeeze in between opposing traffic and the cyclist?
sgtjonson
2013-08-01 16:55:55
"This 4-foot law is the most insane legislation Pennsylvania ever enacted. It has created danger, mayhem and animosity." Hilarious!
rsprake
2013-08-01 20:24:24
I wonder if she appreciates the irony of telling cyclists to "take responsibility" right after tossing out every conceivable excuse for not being in control of her own vehicle. Actually, I don't wonder, I know the answer.
salty
2013-08-01 21:00:07
Too bad I don't do Facebook. I refrain from entering these arenas primarily because there seems to be a repeated, illustrated level of ignorance regarding motorists knowledge of Pa State Cycling laws, how and why cyclists position themselves on road ways, and finally the massive responsibility one assumes every time they pilot a vehicle that can easily kill anything in its path. I worked with this woman for nearly 17 years in my former career. From personal experience I can tell you that she is caring, thoughtful, highly academically credentialed ( two masters degrees), wise and willing to give back to her community . She does not understand that the individual whom she nearly creamed placed himself in the middle of the road for the exact reason that she complains about. Had the cyclist been nearer the shoulder on that blind curve, the odds of a collision with him would have increased due to less visibility and reaction time. Being where he was in the lane, she saw him with enough time to slam on her brakes. Her dissatisfaction after that point is just that, hers... That cyclist is on the road because Pennsylvania State Law has provided a contextual framework via cycling laws in which cyclists should feel safe to ride where they choose. Certainly safer than the East End.... I will not create a FB account just to convey this to her, but I have a few hundred copies of the Pa Bicycle Drivers Manual. Think I will send her one and remind her that a long time former colleague could have been that cyclist that was in "her" way...... Maybe a more effective method of shifting the Pittsburgh Driver Mind is to hold legislators accountable for enforcement of the laws they have put into place to protect cyclists, rather than passing laws and relying on everyday folk to educate and enforce? I'm tired of yelling at drivers.
lenk42602
2013-08-01 22:17:10
Sorry, degrees don't impress me and she gave up any claim to being "caring", "thoughtful", or "wise" when she wrote that letter. I know I'm biased, but her message is pretty clear: if you get hit by a car while legally riding on the road, it's your own fault for being there. Unacceptable.
salty
2013-08-01 22:25:00
salty wrote:Sorry, degrees don’t impress me and she gave up any claim to being “caring”, “thoughtful”, or “wise” when she wrote that letter. I know I’m biased, but her message is pretty clear: if you get hit by a car while legally riding on the road, it’s your own fault for being there. Unacceptable.
Completely unacceptable. Now how does one effectively shift that thinking? I am tired of yelling at drivers.
lenk42602
2013-08-01 22:39:42
This is all very interesting... But in reality, there are no blind curves on that part of Wildwood. Or on any part of that road. I invite you to google and identify any blind curves (that are such at the legal speed limit). There are no sharp curves on that road. Certainly not in the vicinity of Rt.8. But don't take my word for it, Go to the map. Do the streetview. Tell me where to find the "blind" curve. I want to know. I really do. Ms. Baker is not telling the truth about her experience. She is, as far I can tell, lying. I do not understand why she is doing this. But prove me wrong, please; I will apologize. I do not understand why the Post-Gazette printed this letter without checking its veracity. I also do not understand why Lenk* is asserting that this person is trustworthy. I invite Lenk* to drive (or bike, if he owns a bike) on Wildwood and identify this "blind" curve that we're all talking about. I don't think it exists. Who are these people? What is their problem?
ahlir
2013-08-01 23:06:22
I don't really get the jab at lenk there at the end - I think you missed his point... Otherwise agreed.
salty
2013-08-01 23:33:08
Ahlir wrote:But actually Wildwood continues on the other side of 8 so maybe that’s where the confrontation took place. And that bike sign is on the way to the park.
I think she was describing this side of rt 8, since she claims to have turned from rt 8 and this direction matches her description of a hill descent and some turns. She had to go by this sign since the other way would be uphill for the cyclist (and driver) and there are less turns.
benzo
2013-08-02 07:55:58
The "jab", as you put it, got in there because my impression is that Lenk* is a troll. But I'm happy to be corrected and would apologize. To repeat: there are no "blind" curves on that road. The curves that are there maybe get blind at high speeds. But Baker states that she was not speeding. So what is it? More generally, why do we get all worked up when the facts aren't there?
ahlir
2013-08-02 08:23:09
Dermot Foran was killed on this stretch of Wildwood Road a few years back. He was riding his bike downhill on Wildwood and was hit by an oncoming driver turning left onto Bella Vista. Dermot was a loving, caring father of three small children at the time. Maybe a ghost bike at the spot would remind everyone to be careful there.
screbner
2013-08-02 11:47:44
Thanks for the info on Dr. Foran. His obit in the P-G doesn't mention where the collision happened, and I don't see that it was reported elsewhere. FWIW, the Trib says there was a ghost bike at the collision site at some point. Ahlir, perhaps she meant something like this place. It's a curve, and it's blind since the hillside keeps you from seeing what's ahead, though of course that doesn't mean it's unsafe if you're going at an appropriate speed.
steven
2013-08-02 12:46:50
Ahlir, perhaps she meant something like this place. It’s a curve, and it’s blind since the hillside keeps you from seeing what’s ahead, though of course that doesn’t mean it’s unsafe if you’re going at an appropriate speed.
Could well have been a case of retroactive blind curve. "I didn't notice him until I was right on top of him, so there must have been something blocking my vision."
reddan
2013-08-02 13:14:52
@Steven: Well, maybe. If you click through down the road you have a school bus coming the other way, for scale. Just guessing, but it looks like you can see at least a couple of hundred feet down the road, even with the curve. Of course if you're going around 50mph I can see the problem. Baker never did state what she thought the speed limit was...
ahlir
2013-08-02 13:57:28
Ahlir, I am not a troll. I commute. I ride where she was reporting from. Please apologize. Thank you
lenk42602
2013-08-02 14:14:59
Steven wrote: Ahlir, perhaps she meant something like this place. It’s a curve, and it’s blind since the hillside keeps you from seeing what’s ahead, though of course that doesn’t mean it’s unsafe if you’re going at an appropriate speed.
And vegetations. Overgrown vegetations could make normal curve completely blind. As a driver one has to take vegetation into account.
mikhail
2013-08-02 15:41:14
if it's the piece of road I think is under discussion, it's a snaky downhill-uphill posted 35 that you can't go too much faster on (yes it should be posted 25 but it isn't), but neither is there much of a shoulder so you have to take the lane going downhill, and force people to cross the yellow uphill. I motorcycled it within the past week. Sight lines are not good. Yes, you can bike it, but it fails miserably at the Popsicle Test: Would you have your 9-year-old kid bicycle it to go to the store to get a popsicle? You really need to be a seasoned cyclist, unafraid to take the lane, to deal with this piece of road. And you really need to be a tolerant driver to deal with cyclists going either direction -- a species that is extremely scant in number in that part of the world. It's a classic example of why I think EVERY road should have its speed limit lowered 5 if not 10.
stuinmccandless
2013-08-02 15:50:50
Len, I apologize for insinuating that were were a troll. You have, in fact, been a member of this board for ~5 years, posting innocuous notices for selling bikes and such. I also see that Barb is indeed a good person and someone with who I probably have things in common. Ans so I apologize to her as well; in the context of the P-G's ongoing war over bicycling, I mistook her letter for a typical attack. My post was based on examining the map and noting the absence of blind curves, a key assertion in Barb's letter. I have not traveled that road for some time and so would have been unaware of changes in vegetation, etc. Nevertheless I still feel that the car's speed was likely understated and that moving too fast was the reason for problem. We all roll faster than we think, especially downhill.
ahlir
2013-08-03 11:00:23
A few thoughts after reading the comments to these letters: 1. I'm done reading these letters in the PG. 2. If I decide to read an article in the PG that involves biking, I am not reading the comments. 3. Based on some of the letters, the tone of the comments and the way drivers are acting out there (especially around Downtown with the traffic jams due to the Liberty Tunnel/West Carson construction and around the Waterfront at any time since the GAP completion), I just purchased a helmet cam online and plan to use it on my daily commute. I won't be deterred, but the increase of bikes on the streets since early this summer is causing a lot of frustration with drivers. If I get hit, I don't want somebody getting away with killing me because of texting, speeding or general recklessness. Horrible thought, but its one I have sometimes when making my commute from Brookline to downtown.
mlinwood25
2013-08-06 20:24:21
Mlinwood, don't be disheartened by the comments. It's basically the same two bitter angry old fucktards John Strahsmeier and Francis Kilinski, who feel it necessary to respond anti-bike to any letter that appears, I'm sure while they're sitting at home watching Faux noise on their cathode ray tubes. They are probably angry at many things other than cyclists. I have had so few negative interactions on my commute since I started in earnest three years ago that I don't feel any need for a camera. It would just be one more piece of gear to fuss with that would get between me and a peaceful, enjoyable ride.
edmonds59
2013-08-07 06:06:23
The reality is that more and more people are biking, and their numbers will continue to increase. Strahsmeier and his ilk are basically irrelevant. Pittsburgh will simply adjust to the bikes and life will go on. For your entertainment, check out the letter re Detroit in today's paper. Our trolls are there, sniping at bicycles(!) Why, you ask? It's what they do.
ahlir
2013-08-07 08:04:40
Ahlir thanks for bumping my previous message off the Bike Pgh! front page. Oi. LOL.
edmonds59
2013-08-07 08:22:29
Always take internet trolls with a very large grain of salt. They're as likely to be a small band of 15 year old boys that troll for fun as the person they purport to be. (Probably not in this case but it's good to keep in mind.)
andyc
2013-08-07 08:25:01
Seeing as I almost got hit by a cyclist myself (while on my bike), I have to say that I mostly agree with that letter... assuming of course that he had a run in with one of those cat6 guys. I just gave a guy an attitude two days ago when he buzzed me (passed on left) without warning. I was on the last few miles of a 65 mile ride in the sun and my own alertness was in question. I admit that I was swerving a bit and probably needed to take a break. I almost plowed right into him... *sigh* I constantly look over my shoulder, but not constantly enough to catch someone riding 20+ mph on a joint use trail with turns.
headloss
2013-08-09 13:22:00
Good letter. It's too bad it's foeder for the troll, but it says things we need to listent to.
mick
2013-08-09 17:35:22
Mick wrote:Good letter. It’s too bad it’s foeder for the troll, but it says things we need to listent to.
Yes, letter is good. And we need to listen to what it says. It would be interesting to get some real data nevertheless. According to my experience "on your left" does not work with: 1. joggers/runners -- about 99% percent have phones in their ears and they just don't hear me; 2. Power walkers -- same as above; 3. Casual riders -- 30% in phones, 50% are with someone else and talking loudly; they do not hear me until I shout just from behind of them; pairs take almost always full width of a trail; 4. bird watchers on bicycles just stop in middle of trail and don't even get off bikes; 5. Cat6 riders don't care at all; 6. any walker crowd (4 or more) always tries to take a full width of a trail; and if you shout: "On your left!" there is some one who goes to the left, someone who makes a little bit of room and you don't have 2 feet to safely pass.
mikhail
2013-08-09 17:59:49
jonawebb wrote:Here we go: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/breaking-laws-699322/
In reply to the cyclist-running-a-red-at-Murray-and-Forbes one, I wrote: The cyclist should have stopped or come to a near-stop before turning, especially if there were small kids nearby. On the other hand, I'm more worried about two ton vehicles driving 20mph around a corner and killing my daughter than a cyclist biking 10mph around a corner. Kinetic energy = mass times velocity squared / 2. It's not every day you get to use Newtonian physics on the PG letters page.
paulheckbert
2013-08-15 09:32:53
paulheckbert wrote:It’s not every day you get to use Newtonian physics on the PG letters page.
I think doing so may have scared off the trolls. Or at least confused them.
ajbooth
2013-08-16 12:42:38
ajbooth wrote: I think doing so may have scared off the trolls. Or at least confused them.
These problems are usually written with the assumption of no friction, perhaps the trolls are just obeying the rules? :P
headloss
2013-08-16 13:09:38
being the sort of troll that *i* am, i very nearly posted that this was an oversimplification of the situation, and that such equations only seem to apply because we so rarely see objects moving at relativistic speeds, but i didn't feel like coming up with the facebook code to properly display the lorentz transformations.
hiddenvariable
2013-08-16 22:44:04
my comment on http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-walkers-699888/ Cyclists and pedestrians need to learn to co-exist more peacefully, the same as car drivers and cyclists. If we had cyclist education in schools, in which every kid learns to ride a bike, learns how to properly handle a bike and learns the laws, then when those people grow up and they're walking or biking or driving a car, there would be less ignorance of the law. Not only would it help cyclists to behave better and slow down where necessary, it would also help pedestrians know the importance of staying to the right when there are cyclists on a sidewalk or trail, and would help drivers to know how to give cyclists 4 feet of clearance when passing. You could think of bicycle training of kids as excellent preparation for driver training, later in life. Better education of cyclists is increasingly important for several reasons: the growing popularity of bicycling, reduced car use among the young, high income disparity between rich and poor, greater awareness of the health benefits of bicycling, and a return from the suburbs to urban cores.
paulheckbert
2013-08-19 09:32:27
@ paulheckbert Great letter, excellent idea!
mick
2013-08-19 10:09:08
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/two-wheel-texting-700015/ Ok, what is the deal with the PG? Because these letters get so many hits/comments they keep running them? The letters are totally pointless now. Once I saw one person do a thing, therefore this has "empirical and sociological import"? Well, once I saw a homeless guy in pre-Giuliani NYC eat his own poop. Did I wish this didn't happen? YES. Did I write a letter to the ed @ NYT about "this vignette" and the societal implications? NO.
sarah_q
2013-08-20 06:38:56
Does anyone else find it ironic that the PG is sponsoring one of the Pedal PGH bike rides while publishing this drivel at the same time?
mjacobpgh
2013-08-20 08:13:37
But they aren't sponsoring any of the car routes, just the Family Ride on the riverside trails. As long as all of the riders stay off of the roads, and don't startle innocent pedestrians that are obliviously claiming the entire width of the trail while wearing environment numbing headphones, perhaps everybody can coexist for a few hours once a year. And oh yeah, better stay off the shared sidewalks too, lest you upset the loyal PG editorialists!
smarchit
2013-08-20 16:32:51
This more recent crop of letters seem to be more civilized than in the past. Out of curiosity, the familiar horde of trolls (what's the proper collective noun for trolls?) seems to have disappeared. Were they banned by the P-G? Anyway, I sort of miss Stahls(meir)(?) and his merry band of Orcs. (Is there a collective noun for Orcs?)
ahlir
2013-09-07 15:34:49
The comments are actually much more civilized and diverse (more cyclists involved) than I remember seeing a year ago. I think the 4 foot law is getting people to think more about sharing the road. A lot of these milder complaint letters are about things that cyclists do that piss me off too. I only read the beginning and end of this thread, but stuff like threading through repeatedly to the top of the stack in traffic only to get passed again and again and riding aggressively on the sidewalk are just not worth it in my book. They might be legal, but if it's going to piss the other people off, is it really a good idea? If you're in traffic, be in traffic. Share the road fairly with the other vehicles. If you're on the sidewalk, defer to pedestrians and move slowly and carefully. You might be the only cyclist these people see all week - are you going to leave a good impression of us?
erink
2013-09-07 16:28:50
ErinK wrote:A lot of these milder complaint letters are about things that cyclists do that piss me off too. I only read the beginning and end of this thread, but stuff like threading through repeatedly to the top of the stack in traffic only to get passed again and again and riding aggressively on the sidewalk are just not worth it in my book. They might be legal, but if it’s going to piss the other people off, is it really a good idea?
It depends on overall visibility... I don't move to the front for the sake of being first, I do it to be seen by traffic in all directions.
headloss
2013-09-07 16:55:22
I'm the Matt that comments on these. Who needs coffee when I can read these in the morning to get me started? ;)
mjacobpgh
2013-09-13 12:43:58
Can't argue with that.
edmonds59
2013-09-17 07:36:14
I rode the trail in my road bike on Sunday out to McKeesport and back on Sunday. Peds were very appreciative of my announcing "passing left" before I went by.
scott
2013-09-17 08:29:26
scott wrote:I rode the trail in my road bike on Sunday out to McKeesport and back on Sunday. Peds were very appreciative of my announcing “passing left” before I went by.
Yeah, I've found that folks do appreciate it. I don't think a lot of folks are conditioned to recognize the bell at this point from my experience. A friendly "pardon me, on your left" does seem to result in a positive response in most cases, even if you're giving a warning ding ahead of time. Headphone users get a much more brief, and louder version of "oooooonnnnn your left", most of the time they get it and acknowledge they heard. When there are young kids riding or walking, making it a point to slow down so I'm not whizzing by and startling them or their parents is also much appreciated.
benzo
2013-09-17 09:22:29
Interesting. I walk on EFT or SS trails during lunch hour. I yet to see a skater that warns me when passing. And I don't have headphones.
mikhail
2013-09-17 10:36:10
I say "on your left" (btw I like "passing left", will replace with that) in most cases but when I'm giving, like 7 feet of clearance, I don't tend to. And I try to give that kind of clearance whenever possible, that's really my most common solution. Now, I also don't tend to particularly slow down when I'm giving that kind of clearance (unless there's little tykes involved), does that make me a bad guy? Not a mean spirited one, I just didn't see the point. Is one? Conversely, when I can't give wide clearance I slow down, often way down and not only say "on your left", but tend to follow with, "have a nice walk/run/ride".
byogman
2013-09-17 10:43:45
Here's what's good about this letter: it has actually encouraged bikers to have a real discussion about better practices when using trails. I doubt that the same can be said for motorists in response to LTEs.
mjacobpgh
2013-09-17 12:18:41
Gary Evans has called me a "f***ot" on the PG commentary, but he is allowed back under the new commenting system. John Strahs threatened to run me over with his truck, but he is allowed back. Francis Killinsky is just a troll on every single article. John finally admitted he saw a biker stop at a red light after claiming to have never seen it once in his life.... so that's progress?
mjacobpgh
2013-12-14 13:12:50
Well, Stahsmeier ("Stahs") was banned from the comments for several months, I assume due to his repeated threats of violence. But he's back, and much better behaved (at least for now). I'll assume that things were explained to him. Trolls are a fact of human society. Sort of like rats, or cockroaches. You just live with them (well, you keep trying to get rid of them but it's a losing proposition). I would say that the current P-G comments are pretty civilized as these things go. It's work but we need to keep posting pro-bike comments. But remember that it's not all that hard: just keep repeating the (obvious) facts and stay away from invective. Only losers need to resort to nastiness (since it's all they have left). If anyone else actually reads this stuff, they'll see the difference.
ahlir
2013-12-14 15:21:42
He was banned from the PG because I e-mailed them pointing out where he specifically asked how tough I would feel "mangled in [his] rear tires." I requested for the comments from them just in case, but never received that. While the commentary is more civilized, there is certainly no point in even responding to the commentary of Evans, Strahs, or Killinsky aside from the disclaimer that they are senseless, and often hostile, trolls.
mjacobpgh
2013-12-14 15:36:05
I'm tired of the presumption that if there's a conflict between cyclists and cars that cyclists should cede to the cars As time goes on, our continued consumption habits are going to have an increasingly detrimental effect on the world. I.E. Global warming. It's already resulting in more extreme weather events and contributed to the genocide in Darfur. As the climate changes, there will be more fighting, higher food costs, more food instability, etc, etc. Riding a bike is one of several effective strategies for not killing people as a result of our careless consumption habits based out of convenience and familiarity. So if some chump chooses to drive and then is reduced to going 25 in a 35mph zone, instead of just riding a bike... tough shit. Driving a car is a convenience and a wasteful and harmful one at that. It's not as if by riding bicycles we're taking oxygen out of their lungs or food out of their mouths. But our consumption habits, like driving, are literally taking the food out of other people's mouths. I was riding uphill on Blvd of the Allies by Schenely Park to go over to the new bike road and some prick honked at me. Like one lane isn't enough. After he crested the hill he had to yield to other traffic (he was making a right towards Greenfield) That road towards Greenfield is probably another prime example of people speeding, which isn't helped by the super wide unmarked lane. Anyhow, as I pulled off on the newly bike-only Pocusset St, I gave the cars the finger. It was nice.
sgtjonson
2013-12-14 20:52:31
Yeah. One of the things that struck me after reading Caro's biography of Robert Moses is that none of the land use decisions Moses made are permanent. Cars use so much more space than mass transit and bikes that there is tons of space for stuff we want because it was reserved for us by the highway building boom. We just have to repurpose some of the bridges and right of ways allocated to auto infrastructure. And since mass transit and bikes make so much better use of the space the net result for motorists would be fewer traffic jams.
jonawebb
2013-12-14 22:07:12
I wouldn't say stronger, just more focused, which is likely to be as bad a thing.
stuinmccandless
2013-12-16 13:01:34
Could the PG have selected a more ominous title?
mjacobpgh
2013-12-24 10:24:10
mjacobPGH wrote:Could the PG have selected a more ominous title?
I thought it was supposed to be funny!
ericf
2013-12-24 17:47:26
I find it interesting that almost all the comments in the latest letter are pro-bike. I assume its hard to argue in support of her ignorance, but I also suspect that the usual trolls are all stuck in Christmas Eve mall traffic.
awallrider
2013-12-24 21:15:58