BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

« Back to Archive
102

Gap in the GAP First Ride!

Be among the first to ride the completed gap in the GAP, past Keystone Metals and Sandcastle! Date and time TBD, but when it's done we'll be there! Meet in the Southside then ride to Homestead to enjoy the trail, great company, and great food and beer. Be among the first to ride the completed trail. Be prepared for short notice, we'll hopefully have a few days notice of actual completion. Facebook event page is at: http://www.facebook.com/events/468719879865833/
sarapgh2
2013-04-22 09:46:39
Can you please make sure to update this post for the non-Facebook users among us? Thanks.
lou-m
2013-04-22 13:16:50
cool idea!
erok
2013-04-22 13:54:35
Lou M. Sure: Be among the first to ride the completed gap in the GAP, past Keystone Metals and Sandcastle! Date and time TBD, but when it's done we'll be there! (*We don't know the date for sure, but likely mid-May. 2014 is a placeholder:) Meet in the Southside then ride to Homestead to enjoy the trail, great company, and great food and beer. Be among the first to ride the completed trail. Be prepared for short notice, we'll have a few days notice of actual completion. PLEASE BE AWARE - the trail is currently still a construction site. Do not ride the trail until construction is completed. Thank you:)
sarapgh2
2013-04-22 13:55:42
sarapgh2 wrote:PLEASE BE AWARE – the trail is currently still a construction site. Do not ride the trail until construction is completed. Thank you:)
Umm, I'd never do that. Especially not early in the morning at the start of a cross-state race, nor two days later with friends. Honestly, it never ever crossed my mind.
marko82
2013-04-22 14:02:22
sarapgh2 wrote:mid-May. 2014
2014? :) We know that it's going to be open on June 15th, 2013 officially.
mikhail
2013-04-22 14:08:33
Mikhail: "Date and time TBD, but when it’s done we’ll be there! (*We don’t know the date for sure, but likely mid-May. 2014 is a placeholder:)"
sarapgh2
2013-04-22 14:18:17
Darn. I somehow went through there this morning. Wish someone had told me! Anyway. The approach: The ending: And the look back:
ahlir
2013-04-22 14:38:27
Yeah, Marko... I ummmm never rode through there either at 530am..
stefb
2013-04-22 14:39:15
i didnt ride thru at 5:30, nor did i go back thru at 8:30 either. #innocent whistling.
pbeaver
2013-04-22 15:32:04
If I did it, it was only because of peer pressure.
jonawebb
2013-04-22 15:48:59
The trip back involved walking on railroad ballast and looking at an eagle flying overhead. The trip out seemed unbelievably smooth. *whistles innocently*
stuinmccandless
2013-04-22 16:56:20
Wow, all of you, too? I didn't ride through there just yesterday afternoon! And I definitely didn't offer a "hail, fellow scofflaws!" to a big group of other cyclists who also weren't riding through. @Sarapgh2, can't wait!!
joanne
2013-04-22 20:29:10
Some random observations: 1) I expect they'll put a fence up to separate the trail from the railway. I can see the trail being deemed "unsafe" in the meanwhile. 2) There no passage onto the Sandcastle property as yet, though maybe a preliminary cut through the fence. And of course no stripping or signage on the street. 3) The Glenwood end has the right design (ie a sharp turn at the end to slow you down) but you can't see anyone coming the other way. A mirror would be nice. Or maybe a nice sculpture made of old chrome bumpers, say celebrating our junkyard heritage. Maybe Keystone could be persuaded to do some funding of the arts. 4) It's not the most idyllic spot but it would be cool if Sandcastle set up a cafe in that corner of their property catering to the evening and weekend bicyclist. A nice place to stop and some business for Sandcastle. Dare we hope for a beer garden? So, lots of stuff still to do and many new possibilities.
ahlir
2013-04-23 08:00:53
Hope this happens soon. Seems like there sure are a lot of people busily NOT riding this section.
justray
2013-04-23 08:45:23
@Ahlir "...it would be cool if Sandcastle set up a cafe in that corner of their property catering to the evening and weekend bicyclis..." An ideal situation for a portable cart. Heck, two carts, the other selling Icees or something.
stuinmccandless
2013-04-23 14:03:24
Did a google-maps street-view search, seems like this is how they're separating the trains from the trail and the trail from the road (assuming this is Sandcastle) I think this is going to be the best segregated bike lane in the region. Previously I awarded that designation to the Marcigahalahalahala Steel Works. And then at the northern end of SC, after the sinkhole and the road veers away to the gate (according to this street-view search), it seems like the trail-in-progress might look something like this: it's amazing how those google-earth people get around from all the way over at Bakery Square.
vannever
2013-04-23 23:23:38
Isn't Voogle great
marko82
2013-04-24 06:56:16
There will indeed be fencing on both sides of the trail through Sandcastle. Approx. 8' fencing against the railroad and the barrier with 4' fencing against Sandcastle. There will also be fencing along the Keystone Metals section. No, you will not be able to enter Sandcastle at any point along the trail. To enter Sandcastle you will have to use the main ticket entrances. For those interested in hearing updates on the trail and any who wish to help us care for the trail (maintenance, ride leaders, table volunteers) please consider attending an upcoming Steel Valley Trail Council meeting. We desperately need more volunteers, particularly with the increase in trail use expected. We have moved the meeting time back to 6 p.m. and the location to the Pump House on May 20 . We hope to get a good response from this change. Information and updates can be found at http://www.facebook.com/SteelValleyTrail and steelvalleytrail.org.
sarapgh2
2013-04-24 09:30:22
Do we know if trail through the Sand Castle is going to raised a little bit (at least to the road level)? If it's not then we have a potential problem during rains.
mikhail
2013-04-24 10:03:44
As far as I know it is at road level and there are no concerns about rains/puddling.
sarapgh2
2013-04-24 10:37:41
from what i observed last friday, it appears they are in the process of repaving the section of road that has been designated for the trail, on the ride thru that section was mostly chopped out & being prepped for a refill. i would imagine that progress is being made since the weather has been good and the eadline is approaching.
pbeaver
2013-04-24 10:56:43
Will there be access to Sandcastle from the non-waterfront end of the trail? If not I expect a lot of people hoisting their bikes over the wall. No one is going to ride all the way around. @sarapgh2, I am on the maintenance list. I did some work last year but I am now more official. I will be out of town for the next meeting but will be able to make future 6 pm meetings, especially with the trail being complete!
rsprake
2013-04-24 15:16:51
@rspake et al: • It's getting on summer and the SD gates will be open pretty much all of daylight. The gate keepers are either friendly or they just ignore you. Dodging cars has been the only problem, but that's about to disappear. I couldn't really tell from a couple of days ago but the SD side of the road is all cleaned up and there's what looks like a section taken out of the chain link fence (though it's blocked). • I personally like going around. This takes your through the Whemco grounds, onto 7th and to the Amity St crossing over the tracks and to the service road behind the mall, all the way to the Pump House and back onto the trail. I like it because it lets you avoid the trail as it skirts around the mall, which in my experience has quite a few strollers, families with small children, etc. I don't see why I should force them to deal with a (comparatively) fast moving bike. Or maybe I'm just into post-industrial landscapes. • Finally, you can hop on the ballast and get to where the SD parking fence fades out; cburch had been promoting this for a while. (What? What's that? Oh. You have some of those dinky 23mm tires... Nevermind.) • Or mix it up and, once past SD, follow the road up to the bridge, go right and to 8th then left onto Amity. If you're just cruising I recommend venturing into Homestead itself, a pretty cool place.
ahlir
2013-04-24 17:46:29
rsprake - thank you for your help and please be sure to say hi at upcoming meetings. I'm sometimes running around like crazy trying to get to everything, but I always want to meet new people and volunteers:) If people want to try hauling their bikes over a 4' fence, that's on them. Originally the request was 8' fences on both sides, which seemed a bit claustrophobic. We're happy to get it down to 4' on one side and trail should be about 10' wide (instead of 4' or 6'). Nothing's ever perfect, but this is the result of a lot of hard work, patience, and compromise. Idiots will be idiots no matter what you do. C'est la vie.
sarapgh2
2013-04-25 09:57:07
Been out of town. Any update on the unofficial / soft post-construction, pre-commissioning surface inspection ?
vannever
2013-05-14 19:17:45
No updates yet, but it is getting closer and work is proceeding at a good pace.
sarapgh2
2013-05-15 08:27:47
Thank you Sara!
vannever
2013-05-15 10:08:05
Ahlir wrote:Finally, you can hop on the ballast and get to where the SD parking fence fades out; cburch had been promoting this for a while. (What? What’s that? Oh. You have some of those dinky 23mm tires… Nevermind.)
Railroad ballast on 23mm tires, that's not a problem, it's an opportunity to improve your bike handling skills.
benzo
2013-05-15 13:31:45
@Benzo: "Railroad ballast on 23mm tires, that’s not a problem, it’s an opportunity to improve your bike handling skills." True. But whatever you do, don't slow down.
ahlir
2013-05-15 13:50:27
Keystone Metal part is completed. Just rode it. Fence is UP, parabolic mirror at the turn, line is painted near turn, gates/bollard at the SC part are up and kind of closed.
mikhail
2013-05-15 14:20:04
Ahlir wrote:(What? What’s that? Oh. You have some of those dinky 23mm tires… Nevermind.)
What about 20 mm tires? :)
mikhail
2013-05-15 14:22:20
Mikhail wrote:What about 20 mm tires? :)
Go faster.
ahlir
2013-05-15 21:59:45
Open today at 4 pm according to Allegheny County's twitter feed!
chinston
2013-05-16 12:07:45
Uh, yeah....about that.
sarapgh2
2013-05-16 12:57:56
Great news! Yay!
swalfoort
2013-05-16 13:10:00
sarapgh2 wrote:Uh, yeah….about that.
Is this a bit off then? AC county jump the gun?
benzo
2013-05-16 13:11:26
I have to go right home after work today to pack for a trip so I don't have time to try it out. Will have to wait until Monday. My plan is for the Waterfront to become my new Park-and-Ride location. Where should I park so that I can bee there all day, my car won't be molested and the retailers won't get suspicious and have my vehicle either towed or blown up?
kordite
2013-05-16 13:13:51
I honestly don't know if it's just for Bike to Work day or will be considered "open" from now on. There is still work to be done, but carpe diem: Updated Facebook event post https://www.facebook.com/events/468719879865833/ Let's do this tomorrow (5/17/13), what the hell:) It's Bike to Work Day and should be gorgeous. Ride it anytime you'd like, but we'll be there 6 p.m. at the trail in the Southside (across from the SpringHill Suites)/at the end of the Hot Metal Bridge. Ride all the way to the Waterfront. Meet some of the Steel Valley Trail Council - we maintain and promote the trail and would love to have some more volunteers aid our work:)
sarapgh2
2013-05-16 13:20:35
Hm-m-m, If I am not mistaken tomorrow at 18:00 Flock should start. Should Flock move down to EFT and then over HMB to newly open part of the trail?
mikhail
2013-05-16 13:32:22
Would love to Flock. There are theaters at both ends (southside and waterfront) of the trail for the Trekkies:)
sarapgh2
2013-05-16 13:38:36
The work left to be done this morning appeared to be 1) maybe 30 feet of fence by Keystone Metals on the side where the asphalt dump is, which was being actively installed at 11:40am. 2) maybe 30 feet of the low brown fence outside the Sandcastle gate, by Costco. 3) however much of the fence is getting the wacky modesty shutters so you can't see the CSX trains, through Sandcastle. (I'd rather see the trains)
shadow
2013-05-16 13:43:37
Who could coordinate a "Park n'Bike" area there? There is certainly enough parking, especially around the movie theatre.
p-rob
2013-05-16 14:07:01
Kordite asked about park-n-bike near the Homestead Waterfront / Pump house. In the past Lowe's home improvement has expressed some willingness to allow long-term (i.e. overnight) parking in their lot. It wasn't an unconditional OK that they wanted broadcast publicly by the Steel Valley Trail Council (of which I'm a member), but rather an openness to the possibility on a case-by-case basis, I think. I suggest you go to Lowe's and ask nicely, for yourself, and see what they say.
paulheckbert
2013-05-16 14:13:50
Well, County says it opens at 4pm today, so, hey good enough!
shadow
2013-05-16 14:27:19
There was a time when I was driving my daughter to her job at the pet store and then (ahem) proceeding from there on my bike. I didn't have any problems but I was parking near the store amongst other cars so my presence didn't stick out. If this is going to me a regular occurrence, I would like to park much closer to the trail itself and not be riding through the parking lot proper as much as possible. Costoco. Under the High Level Bridge. Eat-n-Park. The Pump House. Those are my thoughts.
kordite
2013-05-16 14:50:26
GAP Trail at Sandcastle is open today. Yale Cohen sent this picture:
paulheckbert
2013-05-16 15:18:30
I'll take @sarapgh2's word over Allegheny County's. She's been the point person on answering questions about this ever since, well, ever since.
stuinmccandless
2013-05-16 15:21:30
Stu-appreciate the support:) Yale has the photographic evidence, so there ya go and great to see! I'll be doing my unofficial first ride tomorrow at 6 p.m. (I'm sorry it conflicts with Flock)
sarapgh2
2013-05-16 15:23:43
I got a shot of the sign as well, but since it's here I won't share again!
shadow
2013-05-16 15:42:26
Under the High Level Bridge. Eat-n-Park. The Pump House. Those are my thoughts.
I used to live at "The Residence At The Waterfront." At least in 2009-2010, they really didn't enforce parking. Now mind you, they do have all the resident's license plates on file. OTOH, there never seemed to be a shortage of places to park... at least from 7:30-6:00. And it does border right up against the trail...
myddrin
2013-05-16 15:46:41
Hello Kordite, The Pump House and the Rivers of Steel organization have a parking registration process. I don't know the whole routine, but a call to them might be productive. 412.464.4020 The Bost Building, 623 E. Eighth Avenue, Homestead, PA 15120 from http://www.riversofsteel.com/things-to-do/trails/
Overnight and daytime parking is available in return for a small daily donation or an annual membership as a Trail Head Friend. Click here to become a friend of the Trail Head. Regardless of whether you become a friend or donate on a per usage basis, overnight parking requires you to complete a registration form.
And then when you click "there", you go to http://www.riversofsteel.com/shop/product/pump-house-trail-head-friend/
You will receive the following as our thank you for your help: TRAIL HEAD PARKING window sticker to show your support of the Trail Head Facilities and identify your vehicle(s) as supporters of the Trail Head
Seems like you might send these folks $25 and get a vehicle sticker and some kosher parking. Might be worth calling them? Cheers, V.
vannever
2013-05-16 18:24:18
Took it this afternoon/evening roundtrip from Smoke. Smooth as silk!
lou-m
2013-05-16 20:19:36
This is awesome. Did the ride yesterday evening, the trail surface is great. There were lots of people out there too. I'm still going to complain about one thing. Those stupid go arounds between keystone metals and sandcastle just suck. They are worse than bollards (at least they are yellow so you can't miss them). I'm sure this will be a huge pain in the ass for anyone pulling a trailer or riding a tandem. It's really not welcoming. I am not happy with whoever thought those were a good idea and put them in the plan.
benzo
2013-05-17 07:02:34
Oh, the pumphouse parking? There are paper forms and a dropbox for the form plus the donation on the water tower building which is now a bathroom. Honor system but basically, fill out paper with how long the car will be there and drop in the slot.
shadow
2013-05-17 07:18:55
rode this today and savored every moment of it! I almost can't believe it's really true!
sarah_q
2013-05-17 11:43:16
sarapgh2 wrote:Stu-appreciate the support:) Yale has the photographic evidence, so there ya go and great to see! I’ll be doing my unofficial first ride tomorrow at 6 p.m. (I’m sorry it conflicts with Flock)
Where exactly at South Side? PS OK, got it -- end of HMB.
mikhail
2013-05-17 14:45:16
Yay! It may not have happened until after 10pm last night, but I finally got to check it out. :) So glad to have this path available.
headloss
2013-05-18 00:34:03
My wife and I rode from my house to Blue Dust, enjoyed a Bell's 9000 (highly recommended), and rode back. Very awesome! It was like a bike superhighway out there; I think there may have been some pent up demand or something. Thanks again to everyone who made this possible - I can't believe it's finally possible to legally ride down there without having to deal with Browns Hill. I'd been dreaming about that since I moved to Sq. Hill!
salty
2013-05-19 16:26:32
Rode it yesterday, it was awesome. I do have 3 comments that hopefully will be addressed in future: 1) The ramp by the seafood restaurant is a tight fit for 2 cyclists if one of them is of a certain size. I managed to catch my hip on a corner as myself and another cyclist worked around each other. 2) I don't see how to actually get my ticket for sandcastle. Do I have to go through the parking gates? 3) Why oh why isn't there a bridge over to the ice cream place on E Carson? Other than that it was awesome. And it was great to see so may cyclists (and roller bladers and pedestrians) using it yesterday!
myddrin
2013-05-19 17:24:50
It was nice to see so many cyclist at the Waterfront today. I couldn't count how many bikes I passed.
marvelousm3
2013-05-19 17:26:53
I rode up the trail today, from HMB, through the new bits and along the proper track (along the river) to the Pump House. It was great! Some (inevitable) comments: 1. The sharp turn at the corner of the Keystone property worked better that I thought. The mirror does the right thing and it's easy to get around the corner. On the other hand I didn't have to deal with a mob of riders coming the other way. 2. The Sandcastle segment is great, except that it was really crowded, making it difficult to pass people. It would have been nicer if the width could accommodate three riders. On the other hand it's a pleasure to have the luxury of making complaints like this. Also, I still want a brasserie/cafe/ice-cream stand along that stretch (or all of them). 3. The sidewalk (from Costco onward) has been widened to accommodate two lanes of bikes. But for some inexplicable reason the last stretch is still the old narrow sidewalk. (There's a parking lot alongside that people were riding, but it's private property). 4. At the pedestrian bridge coming from the "village" shops there is no signage to tell you that that the trail veers off to the left. The people in front of me just kept going, into the restaurant parking lots. This really needs to be fixed. 5. Eat'n Park has bike racks on its trail side! How cool is that? 6. In addition to strollers (including elderly folks) and small children, I rode past someone with a dog. Forgot about the dogs. Nevertheless both a spandex dude and a sweatsuit dude on-your-lefted me along the way. We really need the by-pass. 7. Further on along the trail, the Major Taylor folks had a rest stop at Grant St. in Duquesne. It was part of an organized ride going on the trail to benefit an excursion for city kids out along the trail to Ohiopyle (including a sleep-over!)
ahlir
2013-05-19 20:38:00
Re: 3 and 4, I read someplace that they don't plan to complete that particular small piece of trail until they get the adjoining property (the former Pittsburgh Burger joint) leased to a new tenant. I imagine there will eventually be trail markings that bypass the narrow pedestrian bridge and go around the edge of the parking lot there.
steven
2013-05-19 22:57:47
Something else I noticed Thursday and again yesterday: looks like McKeesport intends to move trail riders from the narrow sidewalk along Lysle Blvd past the shuttered parking garage, Daily News and Municipal Building to trackside: they are paving the alley. The area behind the garage was done, but the Daily News area and behind the Municipal Building was still waiting to be paved and the paving machine was there. And yeah, I can echo the earlier posters in that now that there is the luxury of using a trail there are areas I'd like wider, especially when everyone and their mom is out trying the new trail, but damn, it's good to use now that it's done!
shadow
2013-05-20 06:19:34
Glad everyone was out riding the new trail this weekend; it was fantastic!! Some responses in no particular order. 1. Correct, the Pgh Burger Co lot (where the sidewalk trail ends and the crushed gravel goes behind Mitchell's) is under sale and we cannot make any trail or signage improvements until that property is sold. 2. The Sandcastle section of trail was originally going to be even narrower and the RTC managed to wrangle out the wider option, so it could be worse;) 3. Yes, you have to go through the regular gates to get a ticket and enter Sandcastle. 4. McKeesport is indeed finally rerouting their section of trail into the alley instead of along the main street; a much better alignment. Should be done very soon. 5. go through the gap in the fence on the Baldwin Borough trail and cross the railroad to get to the ice cream place. You'll notice a very worn track leading there:)
sarapgh2
2013-05-20 08:42:57
sarapgh2 wrote: 5. go through the gap in the fence on the Baldwin Borough trail and cross the railroad to get to the ice cream place. You’ll notice a very worn track leading there:)
I assume that's unsanctioned?
shadow
2013-05-20 09:12:35
re: Ahlir #5 DOH! It was dark and I had no idea...I chained to a post (at least now I know, thanks for pointing that out).
headloss
2013-05-20 10:19:22
RE #5. that's Friends of the Riverfront; not my trail. I can give trail advice as a general citizen:)
sarapgh2
2013-05-20 11:04:03
How would I find that GAP gap fence gap from the ice cream shop?
stuinmccandless
2013-05-20 11:36:39
Rode through on Saturday. There were a lot of people riding. The section through the metal place is rather unattractive. I also went up that ramp and scraped my arm. Parking lot through the burger place looks like the way to go. Anyone know for sure the legal bits on those stop signs along the sidewalk part. Seems to me that people on bikes should be yielding to cars turning into those lots. Anyway, it's a great route for a workout, Birmingham bridge to Kennywood and back, little over 18 miles.
burgoofj
2013-05-20 11:50:28
Rode out there over lunch to check it out. Very, very nice to have this connection. The go arounds are awful though. I want to take my family through there, which means trailer and... I don't even want to think about it at the moment. I will probably at some point venture it, but it's no longer high on the list. Still, a very, very big win not just recreation-ally but practically. For instance, it's now substantially easier for me to go pick up a couple small items from the Costco, Target, Lowes or Michaels after work than for my wife to drive from home. And I can meet her there for a matinee potentially. Now we just need to fix Browns Hill Road so it's not so yucky making a left at the top of the rise at rush.
byogman
2013-05-20 12:59:11
burgoofj wrote:Anyone know for sure the legal bits on those stop signs along the sidewalk part. Seems to me that people on bikes should be yielding to cars turning into those lots.
That is correct. Cars have a priority.
byogman wrote:The go arounds are awful though.
I agree. But pedal-cyclists should dismount before go through "go arounds", walk bike through the road, go through another "go arounds" and mount again. From what I understood Keystone Metal wants people to stop completely due to heavy trucks using the road during workdays.
mikhail
2013-05-20 13:08:46
@byogman, An alternative to making that left is to go right behind the Wendys and go up Saline street (more like an alley) which connects to Beechwood a few hundred feet from the big cluster-F intersection. It’s a fairly steep hill so it doesn’t make the climb any easier, but it makes dealing with that intersection a lot easier regardless of which direction you are headed.
marko82
2013-05-20 13:11:42
Thanks for the tip about Saline street. Was wondering about that since I did see it on the map, but trying to follow on street view it jumped so I wasn't positive it was a real connection. As for the idea that you're supposed to dismount... bah humbug. Nobody that I saw did that in spite of the ridiculous low speed maneuver required. If they want to not have trucks running into cyclists, they could... you know, just not run their trucks into cyclists. Sure, a yield sign from both directions to make cyclists aware that there's a crossing, that's a good idea. I'm cool yielding to a big truck carrying scrap metal; I imagine the vast majority of cyclists are. I don't think there's actually a practical problem these solve, just one they create.
byogman
2013-05-20 13:31:24
Marko82 wrote:@byogman, An alternative to making that left is to go right behind the Wendys and go up Saline street (more like an alley) which connects to Beechwood a few hundred feet from the big cluster-F intersection. It’s a fairly steep hill so it doesn’t make the climb any easier, but it makes dealing with that intersection a lot easier regardless of which direction you are headed.
thanks for the tip. I usually go either right at intersection with immediate left to Saline to Hazelwood or continue straight and turn left at Loretta and then right either on Murray or Greenfield (depending on destination).
byogman wrote:Nobody that I saw did that in spite of the ridiculous low speed maneuver required. If they want to not have trucks running into cyclists, they could… you know, just not run their trucks into cyclists.
Well, you can ask Sarah but I understood that this was Keystone Metal condition -- either something to make cyclists to stop or no passage at all. And sharp left turn is also because of this (KM does not want cyclists flying across the road). And that you saw that nobody stopped there (including me :) ) just shows that cyclist would do a lot of things they are not supposed to do. BTW "go arounds" during this past weekend were open so it was "go through". I suspect they are going to be open for weekends. Should we ask to open them for evenings too?
mikhail
2013-05-20 13:47:08
They should open the gate whenever possible. If it is open weekends then I'll take the kids this way sooner rather than later.
byogman
2013-05-20 13:54:56
Some of us in the Steel Valley Trail Council are beginning to feel that the bike traffic across the two entrances to the Costco parking lot (in West Homestead) is a bigger safety issue than the Keystone Metals entrance (Haysglen St). There are many more cars going in and out of Costco than trucks going in and out of Keystone. The law seems to say that drivers emerging from a driveway, such as at Costco, must stop before a sidewalk (see quote below) but in practice, most car drivers wouldn't stop there, so if you get distracted/hasty car driver and distracted/hasty cyclist, and neither one stops, as they should, there's potential for a collision. Normally the pedestrians/cyclists on the sidewalk would have the right of way, but it's less obvious who has the right of way, since those STOP signs were put up on the sidewalk. PA Vehicle Code: "3344. ... the driver of a vehicle emerging from an alley, building, private road or driveway within an urban district shall stop the vehicle immediately prior to driving onto a sidewalk ..."
paulheckbert
2013-05-20 15:02:37
For those of us who don't get out there that often, can someone please shoot some video of what the issues are and how best to handle it when we get there? I've been through there maybe twice in daylight in five years, and cannot picture what it looks like, let alone how to deal with it. A series of stills would be OK, too.
stuinmccandless
2013-05-20 15:12:33
If I want to get away from traffic find it much easier when heading from Sandcastle towards Costco to simply leave the trail and head towards PF Changs. I then work my way to the light on the other side of Dave and Busters. Ultimately, my goal is to travel behind Giant Eagle and Lowes. It's easy to cross back over the main road at Lowes to get back on the trail.
durishange
2013-05-20 15:30:20
At the Waterfront I always stay on the road and take the full lane when appropriate. Yet I’ve lost count of how many drivers have looked right past me and turned across my path into any number of driveways down there – even with daylight blinkies & safety vest. I think there is some sort of psychological disconnect that happens with all of the roadway space down there. I would hope that in time the developers down there will extent the cycletrak through the length of the development which will be more convenient, but the driveways will remain a potential conflict zone. As proof, last fall I was almost left-hooked by a car turning into the pump house parking lot with a bike strapped to the trunk rack. Go figure
marko82
2013-05-20 15:37:15
Marko82 wrote:At the Waterfront I always stay on the road and take the full lane when appropriate.
+100500
mikhail
2013-05-20 16:16:54
Rode this today w/ our youngest. Kudos, kudos for sure. Liked the Eat N' Park racks, good design (told management we appreciated it too, as well as on the survey on the receipt). Saw some long distance GAP folks locked up and loading up on supplies @ Giant Eagle. So much awesome here, Baldwin section was much more busy than usual.
ka_jun
2013-05-20 16:51:10
@Stu, I didn't have any problem negotiating the "problem spots." I think it's more of an issue if you a) have a trailer attached or b) you have to maneuver around others using the path. Having the path to myself at 11pm-ish... there was plenty of room. The corners were a little awkward and required slowing down but not dismounting.
headloss
2013-05-20 18:29:58
If the trail will have significant traffic, why not install some signals? Or, is it preferable to wait until some kid(s) gets squashed by an SUV?
ahlir
2013-05-20 18:51:26
byogman wrote:They should open the gate whenever possible. If it is open weekends then I’ll take the kids this way sooner rather than later.
Just got from SVTC. "go arounds" should stay closed at all time. Some members of the council and ER teams will have code to unlock them in case of emergency or a big ride.
mikhail
2013-05-20 19:51:19
with the way those "gates" are positioned, its not difficult for a regular bike to get thru, albeit very slowly, however, i can see tandems / tag-a-long kid bikes / kiddie carts / trailers having a wee bit of negotiation issues.
pbeaver
2013-05-20 20:09:20
I'm confused about what the "go arounds" are? Are they the big yellow gate things where the path makes some 90 degree turns and crosses the road, where the mirror is? If so, 3/4 of those were wide open when I went through yesterday. The road crossings especially by Costco also struck me as dangerous. I assume there's unfortunately not enough room to run the trail behind all the buildings by the river. Hopefully there is some room for improvement there though.
salty
2013-05-20 20:29:01
Had a chance today to speak with somebody involved with the negotiation with Keystone Metals. They explained that the trail-traffic-calming gates ended up there as a result of a negotiation, in which KM gave up additional land for the trail in return for other considerations. Without those gates the trail might not have gotten built. KM's concern was an inbound truck stopped for crossing cyclists along the main alignment with the truck's back bumper not quite clear of the railroad tracks. One intent of the gates and stop signs is to ensure that trucks don't get stuck on the railroad tracks. That was an interesting perspective that I never would have considered.
vannever
2013-05-21 15:39:34
I've been by there on a working day. The Keystone traffic is real and the trucks are big and nasty looking. On the positive side, I expect that most of the problem traffic (casual bikers, families, etc) will most likely be there during non-business hours. But all it takes is one incident... Maybe if the time and money were there we could have had signals coordinated across the trail and road (and tracks?) Anything coming along the road (from either direction) would cause a red light on the trail. Of course we'd need to vote Corbett out first (so that we can again spend our money on transportation).
ahlir
2013-05-21 17:13:23
I haven’t been down to see this completed yet. But stopping at the "go arounds” sounds like a minor inconvenience compared to dealing with the RR ballast and a locked Sandcastle gate for the last few decades.
marko82
2013-05-21 18:03:02
I'm not completely sure what we mean by "go arounds". There's the 90° turns just before the road, and then there's the big yellow gates at the edge of the street. The former make a lot of sense. The latter are a hazard and should be replaced by lights. (And I hope that the idea is not to lock the gates at any time: people will simply ignore it.)
ahlir
2013-05-21 19:29:40
Ahlir wrote:then there’s the big yellow gates
Those are not the gates because when the are "closed" a bicyclist rides easily between them. That is why Ben called "go arounds".
mikhail
2013-05-21 22:42:57
In a way, the trail-traffic-calming devices are sort of stationary turnstiles, forcing single file movement, forcing non-skilled cyclists to dismount - and if the cyclist in front of you dismounts, you're probably going to have to stay behind them at least through the device. I do wish I knew the correct term for the device though. "stationary turnstile" can't be right.
vannever
2013-05-21 23:03:50
Vannevar wrote:I do wish I knew the correct term for the device though. “stationary turnstile” can’t be right.
I think Ben terms "go arounds" is pretty good one. I got the meaning without a problem.
mikhail
2013-05-22 17:09:10
I've seen "dismount gate" used for them.
shadow
2013-05-22 17:24:03
I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds like a chicane. Wikipedia has a photo of a "pedestrian chicane" for slowing bikes in New York City. A "stationary turnstile" could be simply a stile, but what's there sounds more like a chicane to me.
steven
2013-05-22 17:39:52
Yes, Steven, I think you're quite right. Thank you. I'd always misused the word for a bending winding "fun" road, but I think a chicane is exactly what these devices are. Which leads me to think, I might refer to this crossing maneuver as "Sandcastle chicanery", eager to hear more cleverer variations.
vannever
2013-05-22 18:18:08
Here is what the chicanes look like: Above: chicanes to slow bike traffic where the GAP trail crosses Haysglen St between Sandcastle and Keystone Metals, under Glenwood Bridge.
paulheckbert
2013-05-22 20:27:56
It's a hell of a lot less obvious those are "go arounds" and not "gates" when they're open, as they were on Sunday. Definitely a "picture is worth 1000 words" thing (especially when it's two words repeated 500 times...)
salty
2013-05-23 00:44:26
I now go through them twice a day; they're about as inconvenient as turning off the hot metal bridge down the pedestrian walkway (like we kind of did when the bates st overpass was down and the detour was on the other side of Second Ave, before we realized it was just easier to stay on Second Ave and jump back on the trail after bates) That being said, it seems kind of overkill for the "intersection" and I don't think I've ever seen any traffic coming through there. I think bollards and a stop sign would have sufficed Have there been any discussions as to whether or not the trail will be maintained during the winter? I think the SS trail was, but I'm not quite sure because it didn't snow much this year
sgtjonson
2013-05-23 21:17:00