BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Almost never. I did have to stop on a hill and rest for a bit once a few months back. I find pushing is really awkward. I'd sooner rest and then ride, than slip and fall or drop something. Sometimes I will carry the bike up stairs, but I couldn't do that with a trailer.

Not sure where the "hardcore" line is. I've done a century (enjoyed it, doing another this August), did a 300 mile tour of wales, etc.

When I was in Wales, I pushed. A lot. The trip was right on the edge of my technical ability, and so out of the 8 days I think I ended up pushing on 3 of them. Although, I did learn an important skill while there... how to restart after stopping part way up a hill. If I hadn't learned how to stop and take a breather, I would have walked quite a bit more.

Since then, I can count the number of times I'm walked a bike up a hill on two fingers. Both times Mt Washington.

First time (last Oct) was a mechanical failure. I was on the sidewalk on McArdle with a flat, and I couldn't find a place to fix it until I got to the top.

Second time I actually documented here on a thread. I hadn't cycled in a while, and about 1/3 of the way up I got dizzy and felt ill. I stopped, recovered and tried again. Happened 2 more times, so I ended up walking the last 100 yards. Once I got to the office, I posted asking if something similar had happened to anyone else. Based on feedback and later experimentation, it was a dehydration + lack of food + slacking on the regular riding.

not that i consider myself "hard core", but again: almost never. as lyle, i'd rather stop and rest then continue riding. the exception is when the hill is too steep (and the road too narrow) to be able to clip in again before starting.

i think the last time i pushed up a hill was last summer. it was probably about 90 out, and i had just eaten a few sandwiches at the park at the bottom of wetzel. my ride up to that point had been considerably more difficult than i expected it to be, and i wanted to actually digest my sandwiches, so i took the easy way out.

the summer before last, i tried going up kendall from lawrenceville with about 25 pounds of groceries in my panniers. i couldn't keep the front wheel on the ground, like a 'bent on canton!

I think I did an unsupported century on a mountain bike back in 2005 or so, where I had to push my bike the rest of the way up "Cardiac Hill" (the grade is the steepest towards the top). It was half being out of shape/not used to hills, and half being dumb enough to ride with a bunch of roadies on an unsupported century using a heavy mountain bike.

Aside from mountain biking, inebriation, and mechanical issues, I don't recall any other times I've had to push it up a hill.

In daily riding, never. There are certainly steep enough paved hills around that I can't make it up them, I just don't encounter them unless I'm seeking them out.

Mountain biking and touring are different, there are times that it doesn't matter how low the gear is, you're simply not getting traction or the load is too big to go up the given grade.

I'm not hardcore - no commonwealth crushing, haven't raced in years, don't keep track of miles.

That's a good way of putting it, Brad.

(I should point out that my lowest gear is 33". I'm not hardcore either.)

Last year, once. On the big hill north of Brownsville heading towards Fayette City. It was ~50 miles into a ride; I made it 2/3 of the way up the hill before giving up. I was not in great shape though (or so I'd like to remember).

I haven't pushed my bike up a hill in a while, but I still ride on the road with mountain bike shoes/pedals, because I know there are a lot of hills mightier than me in the area.

I don't think there's any shame in getting off and pushing a bike -- I think it's more "the mark of a hard-headed cyclist."

What information are you looking for, specifically from people that say "never".

I haven't pushed a bike up a hill in over 2 years. In that time, I've ridden about 3,500+ miles.

I've done Greenleaf 3 times this year - West End Overlook 3-4 times this year. 57th Street a few times each year.

"never" is quite relative. If you know your way around you simply avoid the really tough climbs.

If your attitude is "let me try something harder next time", eventually you'll end up walking.

So maybe the question that was actually posed was: "do you necessarily end up walking your bike on a regular basis, along routes you regularly bike?"

@Chris Mayhew. I'm thinking that many folks will say "never" when they really mean "not in a long time."

I'm interested in the extremes. A lot of folks might say "never" meaning "not since I ran into that mountain last month. But that doesn't count, it was at the end of a long ride and I didn't expect it. But really, never."

So "never," you mean last 500 miles? 5000 miles? 50,000 miles? Only while exploring new things? Only while touring?

That is what I'm interested in.

So, Ahlir, I'm interested in your Brownville experience, even though it was out of the ordinary.

The results so far have surprised me.

Last ms150. On the century. I pushed up half of a hill for fear That I would pass out from being too hot. My body has never handled extreme heat well. I felt horrible and slightly defeated. May have been the second time I have ever had to do That. In the woods is a different story.

Double post.

@Mick: That particular hill was 9% grade over 0.6 miles, and 14% over the middle 0.44 miles (using http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ to figure it out). This was a early/mid season ascent. I'm pretty sure I could have managed to huff'n puff it all the way by the fall.

I cracked at the top of Logan last fall. Mostly legs, but there was a bit of oncoming traffic which made it difficult to keep a rhythm. Before that, Tourmalet, Soulor, and Marie Blanque in the Pyrenees in July. Had to walk for a few minutes on each to recover & carry on. Tourmalet is 12 mi @ 7.4% avg. That came after 100 mi & 10,000 ft of previous climbing that day... did not feel ashamed.

slightly OT: when I was in Bejing I noticed some utility bikes were built to push comfortably. Standing on the left side of the bike, the right hand goes on the push-bar and the left hand goes on the left handlebar grip. You could comfortably push that bike forever.

Mick, I see. Ok, I can't remember precisely when the last time was I pushed the bike, but it was on Tesla sometime in the 90s, and then I replaced my gearing. I've ridden 20K-30K miles since. I don't do loaded touring. I know where my breaking point is and don't cross it when I'm alone. When I'm with others, it's always someone else who is the weakest link, so I still don't break -- other than that time I went out with the Pitt team for a training ride It's not that I'm such a monster, it's a combination of circumstance and experience.

Last summer I pushed my 45 lb. Huffy 5 speed cruiser up Steubenville Pike, when it was 90 deg., because I decided to ride it into town (!!). But now that I think of it, I'm with Stef, my recollections of pushing have more to do with heat than with gearing. Unless I'm one heartbeat away from death, I will stand on the pedals and crank it.

I often push up the last big hill on the way home from the T so I can phone my mom and chat a few minutes while I walk (hard to find time otherwise: time zones, commitments, eavesdroppers), on days that I take the T rather than the bus. I bike up if there's no answer or I'm in a hurry, so it's not like defeat or lack of bike legs, more like lifestyle choices

I do this often. I have exercise-induced asthma; one time I decided to ignore it and collapsed riding up hill into a traffic lane on a windy mountain road. Since then, if things start looking bad, I'll hoof it.

The stiffest hill I walk regularly is my own street, all of 187 feet from stop sign to my front steps, but easily a 40-foot elevation change. If coming eastbound and can make the turn at speed, I can fly up it in a fairly high gear. Since westbound is already uphill, I have to mash it on a good day, but if I'm tired, hot, loaded down, whatever, I'm on foot, and quickly. It has little to do with gears, really.

I pushed the last couple feet of summerset in pedal pittsburgh last year just to catch a breather.

Don't remember much, but I think I pushed at least one hill after bruising my IT band in the ms150 last year as well.

The first year I did the ms150, it was my first long ride and a woman told me she only had two rules for riding, and those were "never get off your bike, and never throw up". I think of her every time I start to wimp out (injury circumstances notwithstanding).

yeah sometimes it is a mental thing and sometimes it is a physical thing. i get exercise induced asthma when it is cold, so i have stopped for a minute if i was having an asthma attack, but then would get back on. i have learned my limits though so that doesn't happen much. i have said this before, but when i am on a long hill and need to focus on getting through it, just remember to whoop that trick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z2ffd-otQY (not sure why some of the dialogue is in a different language.. and sorry to bring this up again, but i think this song is gonna be in my head tomorrow for pedal pgh). but seriously, one of my motivators is that i have an aunt with MS and i tell myself that fortunately i have full use of my legs and that i can do it if i don't defeat myself before i even put in my full effort.

I have to walk more often than many cyclists, thanks to defective knees. But it oftentimes works out for me that I'd have to dismount anyway to give my defective back a rest.

My hillclimbing highlight was a ride in Harrisburg back in 2009. I was somewhere on the Pittsburgh side of the river climbing a monster hill with a friend of mine. Well, Ben was ahead of me.... anyway when I'd gone over the crest and was waiting at the stoplight at the bottom of the other side a truck pulled up next to me. The driver rolled down his window and enthusiastically praised me for climbing the hill. He'd been following me and apparently hoping I'd be able to climb the beast without dismounting.

Actually if I knew how to get going on a hill I would probably stop, hit the inhaler, and then get going again. Once I stop I can't start on the hill again.

Interesting question. How often *do* you push your bike up hills, or how often do you *have to* push your bike up hills?

I push my bike up hills all the time, but because I want to, not because I physically have to. I don't (yet) generally bike for fitness, exercise, or athletic pursuits (that's what swimming and running are for!), just to get where I'm going or get some fresh air.

A few of my reasons for walking: 1) comfort: Often I'm in work clothes and have to be presentable when I get where I'm going, and walking a hill means less sweat. 2) safety: Bates and Greenfield (especially at night), for example, although I've also ridden up both hills. Or, last night's flock, as an alternative to crashing and/or ending up in the river due to the mud. 3) technical ineptitude: Sometimes when I'm taking a new route, I'll come across a hill unexpectedly, won't switch gears quickly enough, and will have to stop to avoid falling over, then attempt get going again. 4) convenience: If I'm somewhere compact (downtown, for example) and can walk where I'm going next more easily and quickly than following one-way streets or dealing with traffic. 5) laziness/tiredness: walking is easy!

Now if you ask me how many times I walk a hill while out for a run, you'll get a much different answer.

@sarah_q - A maneuver I've used to get going up a hill is to first go down the hill, a little. With uphill to my right I start out perpendicular to the ascent, going directly across the street level or slightly downward. Then I hook a hard left and describe a semicircle down the hill while shifting into whichever gear will work (if need be), muster some momentum, and have at it. I don't think I give up more then six feet in my little loop. (Many times I find myself in the wrong gear when I set out, having neglected to engage a low gearing for starting up the hill outside. It's a busy, one way single lane side street used as a major shortcut by many, and yet all I need for this move is a few seconds and I'm off.) Hope you find this helpful.

I've never done it (at least not since I was a kid). Even when I was just starting out on an old beater MTB and way out of cardio shape, I stayed on the bike up every hill I attempted (though I purposely limited the hills...)

99% of the it I don't push/walk. Only in extreme situation would i walk. Say I just road for 60 miles and then I have to ride up sycamore st. for the last mile to get home. That would be a walk.

I can't remember the last time I walked. I probably has been a few years now.

If Lyle isn't hardcore, I'm the cycling equivalent of a fluffy pink stuffed bunny made of whispy hopes and dreams for world peace. Any grit I have is more for the sparkle than the abrasion. edited: (I realized after posting that I may be misunderstood to be sarcastically referring to myself as hardcore - I am not, but I do think Lyle is, relatively. I am a pink fluffy softy who just forgets to stop sometimes)

Since swapping out the gearing, I push a LOT less. There are a few very long, very steep (for the length) hills that were on my steady commute, and I typically would go as far as I could before pushing became faster, then hop off and push the bike. I *hate* just stopping for a break (I can't stand not moving, that's the whole point of riding my bike, I want to MOVE). So I typically will push to the top of the hill, then rest on the way down (or the flat).

The only hill I don't really ever expect to ride up is Rosedale, my whale. It's more "up" than "over". Other than that one (and its similarly excessive ilk), I see it as an issue of gearing, less an issue of ability (thanks for that, Mick, really much more positive outlook!). Rosedale et al is not an issue of being in shape OR gearing, it's an issue of people disobeying geography to their detriment, and my simply following the crowd.

[Huh...my reply from yesterday seems to have gone the way of the dodo...]

The last time I recall pushing was a few years back on Eleanor St., during a DD training ride. So, probably 12000-15000 miles since I've walked, other than for a mechanical.

To Mick's question re: "Will you lose 20-30 seconds pushing up a hill to save your legs?", my answer is no. I tend to recover well while actively riding, so will generally push the legs pretty hard in the belief that it won't impact me severely down the road.

In general, I avoid walking not so much for purposes of machismo, but because I find it easier on myself psychologically. Doing the endurance thing when the going gets tough is a matter of continuously ignoring the quiet little voice of practicality that says "stop for a while"; once I start listening to that sane little guy in some circumstances, it's harder to ignore him in others. I freely stipulate that this is not exactly rational or reasonable, but it works for me.

All that said, I see no shame whatsoever in walking the bike.

Besides when walking up a hill with my SO, earlier this winter it snowed and I had slicks on. I couldn't get any traction going up a hill in West Mifflin. Then a plow came by and I was good to go

Another time, a couple of years ago, on the red belt outside of Ambridge, there is a catholic cemetery and it has a really steep road going to the top of it. I think I stopped and took a breather before finishing it or started zigzagging to make it up, I don't remember which one it was

ejwme, I maybe used to be hardcore -- twenty years and fifty pounds ago. Now I have to use experience to substitute for muscle.

But I agree with Dan. Once you start walking, it's awfully hard to get back on the bike again.

On a related note, if you can't use your lowest gear because you go too slow to stay upright, then that's a useless gear to be carrying around, isn't it? Practice riding as slowly as possible until you get the hang of it.

Lyle, part of the definition of hardcore is that you can say you were hardcore 20 years ago and 50 pounds ago, and are still doing it. Endurance is hardcore, as are smarts. Least that's the way I define it.

"Practice riding as slowly as possible..." Someone once posted a link to a youtube video of the slowest race ever, two cyclists basically trying to out trackstand each other, I don't remember what the race was called, just that it was part of the "strategery" to come to a dead stop as often as possible (but never roll backward). Thinking about that always makes me giggle.

On the rare occasion that I teach a kids' class, we do snail races. Slow-speed handling is an important skill for kids to master, particularly on sidewalks and trails, and the balance is important for being able to look and signal. Some people took it one step farther:

http://www.newburyport-today.com/2011/04/slow-bike-race-fundraiser/

On a related note, if you can't use your lowest gear because you go too slow to stay upright, then that's a useless gear to be carrying around, isn't it? Practice riding as slowly as possible until you get the hang of it.

^^ This.

Learning how to get re-started on a steep hill was, for me, almost entirely about learning to ride slowly.

I don't push my bike. I lift it on my shoulder and run it up the hill. I think of it as cross training. Sometimes I do this up Darraugh on my way to Trees Hall for swimming, and call it a mini-tri.

first reaction answer was the popular definition of "never" - meaning I don't anymore (for the past 20 years), but when I was a wee 12-14 year old rider I am sure I pushed.

however, in context of several of the clarifications, here's my answer. (and I do consider myself somewhat hardcore).

the first year I did the Crush the Commonwealth (41hr time), I did it on a 3 speed internal hub bike. on two of the climbs after Somerset, one after Everett and one just before Arendstville I was totally bushed, and did stop at least once on each hill. I resisted the temptation to push. I simply stopped, caught my breath for maybe 30-45 seconds and resumed climbing.

When riding DD hills around the city (and when I am not able to climb in "good form" on my geared bike (39x23 is my smallest gear), I will not stop, nor "dab" - but rather do a downward loop usually 20 feet in circumference and use the momentary rest of the lungs and legs as well as the slight momentum gain to make the hill.

Generally for me, I find it embarrassing to be seen pushing (especially whence holding/pushing a $3500 bicycle)!

joeframbach: I was just talking about how I should start riding to Trees for practice in the morning. Excellent plan!

I ride up the hill to Trees to go swimming as exercise.

I have skipped exercise because I don't like the hill. It's been a while since I've walked up that hill, but then, I usually take Robinson St, which is not quite as cliff-like as the others.

I don't walk my bike often, but when I do, it's a tall bike.

I also walked my bike up a few hills while crushing the commonwealth.

"It doesn't hurt me.

Do you want to feel how it feels?

Do you want to know that it doesn't hurt me?

Do you want to hear about the deal that I'm making?

You, it's you and me.

And if I only could,

I'd make a deal with God,

And I'd get him to swap our places,

Be running up that road,

Be running up that hill,

Be running up that building.

If I only could, oh... "

Never when I'm just starting out, but I cave when I've already logged 70 miles and then I hit a big hill. I admit that I'm still begging my cycling legs back though so we'll see how I compare at the end of the season.

Ha, ha!, good ref headloss.

Also, I think I may have pushed my bike up Solsbury Hill once, my heart going boom, boom, boom...

2009 Pedal Pittsburgh, turning the corner to climb Beltzhoover on the 60 mile course, ran out of gas. I sometimes push if I don't clean a section while riding singletrack.

I essentially never push my bike on roads. That includes going fully loaded over 5000+ foot mountain passes in Washington state. I did need to take breaks there though; a lower gear would have probably helped.

Past a certain point of steepness (Canton being past that point) with low gears available, the issue becomes as much technique/low speed balance as strength. And it's fun to work on that technique.

I have a single speed MTB that I push/carry regularly, as a simple matter of gearing, traction, and being too much of a wimp to get sufficient momentum on steep up-down sections.

headloss - that song is the first one I've been pleased to have planted firmly in my head in a long time, thank you

@edmonds59 & ejwme, It's all joeframbach's fault, he got me singing when he said "I don't push my bike. I lift it on my shoulder and run it up the hill."

@alankhg, I'm planning on taking the Northern Tier route to Seattle this season or next, what was your lowest gear combo for that trip?

Headloss, it was a Fuji Touring with stock gearing. The lowest gear was 30 front x 32 rear. A little lower wouldn't have hurt on some of the passes and might have saved me from having to take a break midway up. I was taking the Northern Tier across Washington; I took the train across North Dakota & eastern Montana which was definitely worth it with the headwinds I saw out the window. West-to-east is suggested, unless you're planning on staying out west (I did).

Dunno if you have your bike yet but the Novara Randonee is 20% off right now & well equipped if you're looking at something new.

Yeah, the Novara is on the top of the list, just don't have the cash to splurge at the moment.

I'm also looking at the Surly cross-check and the Kona Sutra as potential pickups. Part of the reason I want to do the ride now is b/c I'm unemployed at the moment so It's up in the air if I'll wait another season when I can afford something with a chromoly frame. If not, I might be tackling this thing with my kona dew (after wheel upgrades) and just going ultra-light/credit-card touring.

Thanks for the heads up on the headwinds, I'll probably do that. If I ride out there this season, It will be to meet up with a friend in Seattle and ride back with him.

@alan yeah, that 34 tooth cassette is very nice from time to time.

I've done it once or twice when I was commuting on my fixed gear and had to ride to the in-laws on the top of Penn Avenue in Wilkinsburg. But that was years ago. I haven't pushed the commuter in quite some time.

The SS mountain bike? Now that's a different story....often on that thing, it makes more sense to just push/carry instead of trying to turn the cranks over.

So after reading this thread, I started to feel kind of down on myself about the half mile walk I take up liberty to 38th every day.

So I started doing a block at a time this past week, and today, I made it from my work to my apartment without stopping (after being on my feet for 11 hours on about 3 hours of sleep)

I mostly walk up hills because I do hate to be in the way of traffic, and I usually feel like I am when I'm moving slowly. And though there's a bike lane on liberty, I tend to walk because I'm usually embarrassed about how slow I am, how quickly I become short of breath, how many times I have to stop, etc.

But I suppose my new goal for the summer is to minimize my uphill walking.

Good for you! Don't worry about how you sound. I breathe heavily and loudly when i climb hills and it has always been that way. I used to get embarrassed but not anymore.

headloss, ejwme: yes!

Congrats RubberFactory!

Kudos RF!

It's not been so long I don't remember the sense of accomplishment I felt summitting Liberty for the first time without stopping and walking. I wanted to plant a flag. I was proud. I told people, among them a young "babe on bike" friend who told me that for a while she took every guy interested in her on a ride up Liberty or Penn, and every one tried to impress her with their prowess, and every one had to stop, or barf, or in one instance, pass out and need an ambulance. I advised her she needed to start dating a better class of guys, but no pedalcyclists please. (They are a scrofulous lot of cads and bounders and no-accounts.)

So congratulations, RF, you made it and didn't "buick". (You didn't, did you?)

haha, no. If I ever feel like something's too much for me, I'll stop before it gets to that point. No sense in hurting myself or getting sick.

Every day last year that I biked to FedEx in Moon, and a month back when I climbed Federal, I made a point of NOT looking up.

Looking up seems to take the wind out of my sails. Federal has a stop sign at Lafayette, and most of the rest just start to get easier after a while. Meanwhile, just make sure I'm not going to fall into a hole or run into something, and keep making the pedals go around.

headloss:

If you're unemployed, just go for it. Once you're employed again you'll just spend your days wishing you had time to go on epic adventures.

The Dew isn't a perfect bike but it looks like it'll do the job, and I saw plenty of people out on the road riding similar bikes. It looks like it basically has a touring geometry. For $200 or so, you could:

-get the wheels rebuilt or retensioned so they're strong (this matters more than the wheel components, honestly)

-swap the flat bars for trekking bars with multiple hand positions (e.g. http://www.amazon.com/XLC-Multi-Functional-Trekking-580mm/dp/B000NULPIS)

-buy a decent saddle. I enjoyed my Brooks.

-buy decent front and rear racks, like some Blackburns (most front racks come with brackets if you don't have lowrider eyelets)

With that, you'll be ready to go for much less than a new bike. If you need panniers, Nashbar waterproof panniers aren't the best (they are just one big compartment, and needed fixing in various ways in the course of travel) but are cheap and work.

So that's a $290 budget to get you ready to go cross-country. And you don't even need all that stuff; I saw plenty of people out on the road with enthusiasm far outstripping their equipment. That's what really matters. Just go.