media and bikes in the netherlands

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erok
Keymaster
#

has this been posted yet?

it’s pretty incredible how different reckless driving is treated in the netherlands.

this was really eye opening for me in a weird way.

“When cyclists matter”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeJ-d86pKsw


Pseudacris
Participant
#

I’ve been to Zagreb a few times in recent years and its a bummer to see how American-style cars have taken over there, too, I suppose as some kind of status symbol. They look out-of-place on sanely-scaled, pedestrian-friendly streets.

Thanks for posting this video: its good to have our eyes opened to a more humane way of doing things.

//rant// [edit: rant removed…insert sigh of frustration about violence in culture in general]


salty
Participant
#

? ok, it all sounds good, but then @3:40, nothing really happened to the guy – he got his truck and his license back.


Pseudacris
Participant
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^ true, that.

But, it was interesting to see that a lot of people had the decency to be outraged at the incident. I wonder what fell through in their legal system. Maybe the guy had a relative in the right office? Or, maybe the driver was an American?

Also, the truck was not just called a “big Pick up” , but an “Huge American Pick-up Truck.”


erok
Keymaster
#

it said he had to re-take the test, and if he failed, he’d lose his license permanently. remember, people were barely injured. you can kill people here, and you don’t even need to retake your test or fear even a suspension.


pratt
Participant
#

don’t f’ with cyclists in Holland.

also love the wheelchair with hand cranks zipping by


erok
Keymaster
#

i saw that. that was incredible!


Morningsider
Participant
#

Is there a thread (or a map) highlighting Pittsburgh’s most dangerous intersections?


erok
Keymaster
#

penndot recently released the most dangerous streets.


ejwme
Participant
#

did peenndot release them in a linkable way? or can you summarize please erok?


erok
Keymaster
#

hmm good question. i’ll try to dig that up. i have just heard about this list in meetings and how West Liberty Ave, Penn, Forbes, and Fifth are on it. I think there was an article about it too


erok
Keymaster
#

my guess is that there isn’t a public list because that would open them up to liability. “See, you knew it was dangerous, yet you let it stay that way”


dwillen
Participant
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Pseudacris
Participant
#

^ interesting doc! I’d be curious what happens after 2007….


dwillen
Participant
#

They don’t seem to have anything available after 2007.

They published another story on Feb 8, 2011 and still used 2007 data: http://www.wpxi.com/news/26790514/detail.html


erok
Keymaster
#

thanks dwillen, you are clearly better at the google


Tabby
Participant
#

I have County crash data and some maps, but it’s not all that interesting- I promise.


erok
Keymaster
#

as luck would have it, there was an article in today’s post gazette with this graphic


erok
Keymaster
#

the bike crashes must be severely under reported. also, Penn Ave is the longest street in the city


quizbot
Participant
#

^ this is why folks need to call the cops for every incident, no matter how minor.


ejwme
Participant
#

what quizbot said. there are people who only look at reported numbers. these people move around mostly by car, and may never set foot in this county let alone actually share in the grief caused by the status quoa. without appreiciable incident numbers, those people will prevent any attempt at solving a problem that, by their perception, does not exist.


Lyle
Participant
#

Without adjusting for rates of use, this data is almost useless. Also, it’s not clear to me if theses are reported motor-vehicle/bike crashes (perhaps with no serious injury), or are bike crashes that involved an er vist (but perhaps no motor vehicle) or some of each.


dwillen
Participant
#

In less than five years, 61 people were killed by cars…in Pittsburgh? Allegheny county? That is nuts. I assume all of these were unintentional.

I had trouble finding any stats about accidental gun deaths in the city/county, but there were only 156 unintentional gun deaths in the entire state of Pennsylvania between 2002 to 2007, a 5 year period for which I could find numbers. The CDC webapp thing refused to break it down by county, because the numbers were too small to be meaningful.


Steven
Participant
#

The P-G’s table above is from the ActiveAllegheny plan, which is here. Appendix G has bike crash data, including a map showing the 30% of crashes where their data noted a specific location.


Mick
Participant
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@ dwillen http://www.wpxi.com/download/2010/0902/24857511.pdf

I find it amazing – the top five stretches have over 600 accidents and 13 fatalities in 6.2 miles of road.

How is this an acceptable price for transportation? Can’t something be done about those stretches?


Mick
Participant
#

@dwillen In less than five years, 61 people were killed by cars

There were a lot more people killed than that – 76 fatalities in the PennDot common accident sites in5 years.

61 pedestrians and bike users.

I tend to think of it as 61 innocent deaths from car use, plus a bunch more that were involved in vehicle use.


dwillen
Participant
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Yea, sorry. I should have been more clear. 61 people were killed by cars, while not in a car themselves.


ejwme
Participant
#

Lyle, there are two seperate issues – the issue that statistics as typically shared have no actual meaning, and the issue that people who have no personal involvment with the location and citizenry are unaware of any problem.

You are right, statistics need to be defined in a meaningful way. Luckily, or unluckily, whether or not the numbers presented mean anything has no bearing on whether decision makers continue to ignore the issues of a motor-vehicle-centric infrastructure. I don’t care if the number 4527 with no units convinces someone in Harrisburg to get off their butt and push for change or at least visibility.

Perhaps it’s my jaded acceptance of the general innumeracy of the population talking, but I figured I’d point it out. Pervasive policy has been implemented on far less.

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