BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

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PUBLIC MEETING: Downtown bike infrastructure expansion 12/14/2015

From Envision Downtown: "The City of Pittsburgh Department of City Planning is hosting the first of several public meetings to discuss the connection of the Great Allegheny Passage bike trail to Point State Park. Over the last two years, Downtown Pittsburgh has become safer for those traveling by bike than ever before. As the City continue to improve the safety of our streets, they are interested in providing a better connection for people riding bikes between Great Allegheny Passage and its terminus at Point State Park as well as connecting the Penn Avenue Bike Lane to the same network. The Great Allegheny Passage (GAP) is one of the premier trails in the United States. It brings in millions in tourist dollars, but does not connect clearly or safely to its final destination, the Point of Pittsburgh. Please plan to attend this important meeting to learn more and provide your feedback." The meeting will be on December 14 at 6:30 pm at 11 Stanwix St. (The black First Niagara building near the Point). This building has good, covered bike parking on the lower entrance on Stanwix. I'm guessing the meeting will take place in the auditorium in the Lobby level. http://www.envisiondowntown.com/bikelanemtg/
chrishent
2015-11-30 11:09:49
On my calendar. Thanks!
edmonds59
2015-11-30 13:20:23
Are any of these meetings going to be during the day (preferably over a semi-plausible lunch hour)? The link just mentions this one.
byogman
2015-11-30 13:31:49
@byogman, these meetings for bike infrastructure are usually scheduled during the evening, so I wouldn't bet on any future ones to be scheduled around noon. Still, it can't hurt to contact the City's bike/ped coordinator and suggest a different time for any upcoming meetings
chrishent
2015-11-30 17:43:13
It would be nice if it was live streamed. If not this event, then future ones.
stuinmccandless
2015-11-30 19:52:44
IMO, Blvd of the Allies would be the perfect corridor to install actual protected parking-buffered bike lanes, and by that I mean, sidewalk>bike lane>car parking>vehicle lanes. The Blvd has far too much motor lane capacity, this would connect college students and not just be a trail connector, etc. If that is not already not on the table, and I can make it to the meeting, I will put that on the table. Since Pgh has started installing "starter" infrastructure, we need to get in an example of the next level infra.
edmonds59
2015-12-08 09:25:08
^I disagree edmonds. Why does there need to be car parking on the BoA? Seriously, it's not like there are a bunch of small businesses along here where the customer needs to park for 15 minutes or less & there are two different public garages located right on the BoA. I vote for bike lanes and wider sidewalks. The only hiccup is how to deal with bus stops beside the bike lane so that ped/bike/bus interactions are safe.
marko82
2015-12-08 11:38:49
I see it as an opportunity to get an example of another type of recognized bike infrastructure in place. There may or may not "need" to be parallel parking on BOA, but the parked cars form a more substantial barrier to the bike lane from the driving lanes than paint or candlesticks. Also, in PR terms, we are able to point to a type of infrastructure where we can say "no parking was lost in the installation of this". That's my thinking. In terms of bus stops, I think the way that is done in situations where they have worked this out, you stop the parallel parking at the location of the stop and construct an "island" for the bus riders to step out onto before then crossing the bike lane. A picture would probably be worth a mill here.
edmonds59
2015-12-08 14:14:46
There are six bus stops involved, three eastbound/outbound (Market, Wood, Smithfield), three westbound/inbound (Cherry Way, Wood, Market). Even on a temporary basis, you could implement how it could look with simple sawhorses and caution tape.
stuinmccandless
2015-12-08 16:16:35
the "floating bus stop" aka "island bus stop" where the bus users cross the bike lane to wait on the bus stop platform
vannever
2015-12-08 19:51:46
5 lanes. 1 outbound bikelane with intermittent floating bus stops 1 outbound car/bus lane 1 centerlane for right/left turns 1 inbound bikelane with intermittent floating bus stops 1 inbound car/bus lane bikelanes separated from car traffic by a concrete curb. Drivers turning right off BoA to sidestreet have to make wide turn around curb. I just don't see that there's room (or actual need) for parallel parking here.
vannever
2015-12-08 20:15:33
Ok. If we are going to allow parking, how about angled parking on one side - bike lane - sidewalk. This way you don't have to worry about getting doored on the passenger side of the vehicle, and you would probably have the same or maybe even more parking. And the bus island could be much wider this way too, at least on the parking side.
marko82
2015-12-08 21:35:59
Thanks for the illustrations! Very useful. In the video I think I took the comment at 0:37 the wrong way, but that's just how my mind works. :D :D
edmonds59
2015-12-09 12:00:58
*bump* This is tonight. 11 Stanwix St at 6:30 pm. For those unfamiliar with this building, the bike racks are located next to the lower entrance on Stanwix, in a covered area with some tables. If the lower entrance isn't open, go up the stairs and enter through the main lobby. The auditorium is on the far side of the lobby.
chrishent
2015-12-14 07:30:09
Any feedback from this meeting?
benzo
2015-12-15 10:38:26
Overall, it went well. They are still considering scenarios for either Ft Pit Blvd or BOTA, though I sensed that those in attendance favored the latter more. I have some thoughts on this that I'll get into later today
chrishent
2015-12-15 11:55:06
Hopefully they put the bike lane on Blvd of the Allies. It is the widest street in all of downtown and there is almost never any traffic on it, even during rush hour. Plus it goes through Point Park U, easily connects to Market Square, and ends close to the entrance to Point State Park. Plus, Fort Pitt would be bad for a bike lane. It has a bunch of weird intersections with ramps to/from the parkway and Mon wharf parking lot, and it is always traffic-jammed in afternoons. And once the Mon wharf trail connectors are built to the Jail Trail and the point, a bike lane on Fort Pitt would be redundant. Bike lanes should go THROUGH the city, like on Penn, with the trails on the outskirts to serve as bypasses.
alleghenian
2015-12-15 12:57:30
My summary: The focus of the meeting was the GAP-to-the-Point connection: asking the audience for their thoughts on the best route for on-street bike lanes between the PNC building (Eliza Furnace Trail & Grant St) and the entrance to Point State Park (Penn & Commonwealth Pl). This is part of the broader goal of making a complete bike network connecting downtown to Northside, Southside, and Strip. Kristin Saunders (Pittsburgh’s bike-ped coordinator) ran the meeting, mostly, with help from the city Planning Dept. Two alternatives were discussed (please correct me if I misremembered details): 1. Fort Pitt Blvd route: cross Grant St at PNC building, take Fort Pitt Blvd all the way, and R turn on Commonwealth Pl. There’s a sidewalk on W side of Commonwealth Pl that they might use. This road currently has 3 lanes (with occasional parking). The rightmost car lane would be replaced with a two-way bike lane. 2. Boulevard of the Allies route: cross Grant St, take Fort Pitt Blvd for one block (on the current left sidewalk toward the Smithfield Br), R turn on Smithfield, L turn on B.O.T.A., and continue to Commonwealth Pl. Currently there are 5 lanes of cars, each about 11 feet wide, the two outermost being occasional parking and the center being a turning lane. [Most in the audience preferred this over Fort Pitt Blvd.] Key: P=parking (8 feet wide) P’=parking (11 feet) C=car (10 or 11 feet) b=narrow bike lane (5 feet, paint only) B=protected bike lane (3 foot buffer with bollards + 5 feet) B’=protected bidirectional bike lane (3 foot buffer with bollards + 8 feet) Current config is P’CCCP’. Three configurations were discussed for BOTA: a. PbCCCbP - narrow bike lanes (a la Liberty Ave in Bloomfield) b. BCCCPB - take away parking on one side of street, and put bike lane between parked cars and curb c. PCCCPB’ - bidirectional bike lane between parking and curb There’s the question of how to handle bus stops, because both Fort Pitt Blvd and BOTA get a lot of buses. First Ave was also brought up as a possibility. Mon Wharf (the official GAP route) was not considered to be a complete alternative to the above routes, since Mon Wharf isn’t connected to the street grid and downtown buildings the way the above routes are. Riverlife expects to open bidding for the Mon Wharf Switchback next year (but we’ve heard that before…). Construction by DCNR of the trail at the western end of Mon Wharf “is delayed”. Schedule: Feb-design mtg, May-final design, August 2016-begin construction. In 2017 the city hopes to work on a cross-town bike lane, perhaps on Smithfield or Wood?
paulheckbert
2015-12-15 20:37:42
Thanks for the summary Paul. I was too tired and didn't make it. I'm glad that it sounds like a lot of people are thinking of this as a functional, connecting, travel path and not just an extension of a recreational trail. I vote for PCCCPB. That makes the Bus/ADA accommodation easy, you delete parking at the bus stop and leave a landing for boarding and debusing passengers.
edmonds59
2015-12-16 09:23:47
I'm not a fan of having a bi-directional bike lane a la Penn Ave here. BOTA is a wider road with two-way traffic. Having a cycle track on the north side of BOTA as proposed would complicate right turns if you're traveling east on it. It would essentially require you to have bike boxes at each intersection so eastbound cyclists can turn right. This is in addition to having westbound cyclists (towards PSP) having to merge with traffic or do a Copenhagen Left to make a left turn. I'd much rather have a protected single lane on each side and then merge or do a Copenhagen Left when I need to turn left. One thing I would like to add to Paul's summary is that the discussion centered on how to get from the Jail Trail/Smithfield bridge to the Point, but nobody talked about how to do this in reverse. Under the proposed alignment for BOTA, eastbound cyclists trying to get to the Jail Trail would have to turn right onto southbound Smithfield (aka the outbound bus lane) and then make a left at the intersection with Ft Pitt Blvd to get on the shared sidewalk that goes over the highway and takes you to Grant St. Considering the oncoming traffic from the bridge and the buses that may be behind you that have no reason to turn left, this maneuver becomes problematic, to say the least. This is without getting into an argument about allowing cyclists legal access to the bus lane What I would do here is to simply extend the eastbound bike lane on BOTA all the way to Grant St. Then you can continue straight onto that small portion of Second Ave that runs along the park from Grant to Ross (btw, this small section of road is wide enough to accommodate a bike lane). Or, you can turn right on Grant and then make a left turn onto the Jail Trail at the First Ave intersection. It should be noted that people did ask why any of the proposed bike lane alignments on BOTA did not go all the way to Grant. I can't recall exactly what the City's response was to this, but they essentially said it is not under serious consideration right now. I do agree that if there's going to be bike infrastructure, it has to be on BOTA. With the Mon Wharf connectors being completed sometime in the near future, having bike infrastructure on Ft. Pitt Blvd is redundant. Coupled that with the afternoon rush hour traffic and that there's even less things to go to on Ft Pitt than on BOTA, then I think the latter is the better choice. Besides, it's not as if you can't ride westbound on Ft Pitt Blvd if there is no bike infrastructure. Just take the lane :)
chrishent
2015-12-16 10:35:05
Really glad to hear BOTA is beginning to be the favored choice. However structured, running the bike lane past several colleges, restaurants, and near Market Square is way preferable to Fort Pitt. For those who were there - why was Fort Pitt considered the favored choice initially? It seems like a no brainer to me that it's a poor choice, but what am I missing? I'm also wondering if there was discussion about that different user types of these options and how that affects the route choices. For recreational riders (particularly out of towners using the GAP) they'll just want the switchback (mostly, there's always exceptions), once that becomes available. The BOTA/Fort Pitt route would be used mostly by commuters, people wanting to be in town (and those who just prefer riding on streets). Obviously these are generalizations, but the type of cyclist and their purpose for being there should play into the route choice as well. Any discussion of this? (from talking with my tour riders and riding around myself, there are definitely several different bike audiences with different preferences and needs that we're discussing here.)
sarapgh2
2015-12-16 12:23:11
I think one of the reasons for considering Ft Pitt Blvd was the relative ease of implementation. You simply remove all on-street parking spots and move the bus stop at Ft. Pitt and Smithfield, then you put in a two way cycle track. Done. However, the aforementioned bus stop is very busy and, if I understood correctly, it's used as a sort of layover area for buses, so the Port Authority (who was not at the meeting, or at least didn't speak up) understandably has issues with this arrangement. Also, some businesses from that area where present at the meeting and they objected to losing the on-street parking. One of the other reasons was that the City wasn't sure if the Mon Wharf connector projects were going to happen soon, so they wanted something in place to connect to the Point and get cyclists off the sidewalk on Ft. Pitt (which, lets face it, happens quite often) I forgot to add that one of the major points made by many of the attendees at the meeting was that the city does something about improving the intersection of Smithfield and Ft Pitt for cyclists, especially for those coming from the highway bike/ped bridge that starts at Grant, or the shared upstream sidewalk of the Smithfield St bridge
chrishent
2015-12-16 13:01:12
Thanks chrishent!
sarapgh2
2015-12-16 14:21:42
To date I've mostly used First. Not much traffic. (Though the cross-streets are a bit of a pain; and maybe, someday, they could repave it.) Ft.Pitt is not great, except maybe on Sunday mornings. BOTA is actually pretty ok, even as is. On the other hand BOTA at Grant is a challenge, I only use it east-bound. Of course all-directions red lights would be a solution. With crosswalk signal actuators for bikers: you don't need drivers getting unnecessarily all raged-up. And a single diagonal green carpet as the path.
ahlir
2015-12-16 21:47:46
I debated what thread to post this into and thought this "downtown" one might be best. In Arlington, they made a worst-5 for crashes intersection much safer just by altering their traffic lights and signage. I think the two intersections at the Smithfield Street Bridge & BOTA-and-Grant would both be good candidates for something similar. Video: Collisions Down at Rosslyn’s ‘Intersection of Doom’ https://www.arlnow.com/2015/12/16/video-collisions-down-at-rosslyns-intersection-of-doom/ I wonder if our traffic engineers/planning dept. could make a visit to see how effective it is.
marko82
2015-12-17 10:12:31
From the City's Bike/Ped coordinator: "Good Afternoon, Thank you all for being a part of the design and outreach process for the GAP to the Point project. We are very excited to see this project moving forward I'm writing today to give you an update on the alignment decision making. Following stakeholder meetings this past winter, The City has decided to move forward with the alignment pictured below. After meeting with PennDOT and other agencies, it was determined that the proposed option would have fewer negative impacts on traffic and parking. In addition, one thing that we heard loud and clear at the public meetings was a strong preference for the alignment that would allow for the safest and most clear intersections. This comment, as well transit impacts, parking impacts, and traffic impacts went into our decision making. The final alignment will be a cycletrack starting at the Great Allegheny Passage, proceeding west on Ft. Pitt Boulevard, turning north on Stanwix Street, turning west on Liberty Avenue and finally connecting to Point State Park. This installation, along with the low-traffic streets of Third and Fourth Avenues and a planned north-south connection will provide a dense network of low-stress options for downtown bike riding. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. We are currently going through the design and engineering phase of the project and anticipate additional public meetings to be held this summer to prepare for an installation in early spring of 2017. If you have received this e-mail, you are on the contact list for the project and we will keep you informed of any upcoming developments. Thank you, Kristin Discuss. More thoughts on this later...
chrishent
2016-03-16 15:49:38
This is a very nice solution. Particularly in that it addresses the mess that's Stanwix/Liberty/Penn. Alternative routes are still there for those who are accustomed to them.
ahlir
2016-03-16 19:41:12
This works. It avoids Grant which is complex for visitors. Does anybody know, when they say "cycletrack" - what does that mean? I'm thinking it's like the PennAve bike lane, a wand-separated dedicated bike lane. I do wonder how this works with the buses, but I'm sure they've got a plan. Edit to add: 2017 implementation? I thought this was a 2016 item.
vannever
2016-03-16 20:02:36
My guess is, double cycle track on the river (south, left) side of Ft Pitt. It's the only way they get to claim fewer intersections, since all the same roads that cross Allies hit Ft Pitt, too; and they don't have to move the bus stop or any parking. If they wrap it around the corner from Ft Pitt to the left side of Smithfield "to get to the GAP-connector sidewalk" and the Mon Wharf Ramp, they're even set up for a two-way onstreet PBL in the downstream side of the Smithfield St Bridge, though i suspect that probably won't happen right away.
epanastrophe
2016-03-16 20:08:01
A cycle track on Ft. Pitt feels redundant to me, at least once the Mon Wharf switchback is completed. Ft. Pitt Blvd has no meaningful destinations, and since you can't turn right on Wood or Market, the cycle track is essentially an express lane for bikes between Smithfield and Stanwix. I would have much rather have two separate bike lanes on BOTA, but I guess parking and access concerns took precedence. On the plus side, this removes all the people that ride on the sidewalk on Ft. Pitt, so I guess that's a plus. I assume the alignment on Stanwix will be on the on rightmost northbound lane. This is OK, but possibly eliminates two bus stops (at 4th Ave, and at Forbes) that are fairly busy. Also, the pavement is in bad shape, so hopefully they'll repave the road before putting in the cycle track. Once it reaches Penn, I assume they'll expect cyclists to make a Copenhagen Left to turn towards the Point. If the cycle track is placed on the rightmost lane, they'll probably have to eliminate 10-20 on-street parking spots, plus possibly eliminate/move the bus stop at the Gateway/Wyndham. *sigh* Honestly, I'm not too enthused about this plan. I ride these roads all the time and seldom have an issue. But I suppose if it gets more people out on bikes, then it's worth it
chrishent
2016-03-16 21:00:46
I really dislike this alignment. However, It would make sense if you could ride from EFT directly on to FT Pitt BLVD and if it extended all the way through commonwealth place and directly to an entrance to the point via the tunnel behind the parking lot. https://twitter.com/sbwhite/status/710195125993889792
benzo
2016-03-17 10:22:55
@benzo, I kind of agree with your idea. However, I think they wanted to connect this cycle track to the one on Penn, so having it go up Stanwix, regardless of whether it comes from Ft. Pitt or BOTA, is the way to go. Ideally, you'd have everything: a cycle track all the way on Ft. Pitt, one that goes up Stanwix, and one that goes on Liberty/Penn outbound. My guess is that, even after this is implemented, we will still see people riding on the sidewalk from Commonwealth Pl to Stanwix on Ft. Pitt. And more experienced riders heading to the Point will probably continue on Ft Pitt rather than turn up Stanwix. It's what I would do, as I wouldn't be interested in encountering 4 traffic lights on Stanwix prior to having to make a left onto outbound Penn to go to the Point. Well, at least until the Mon Wharf situation is sorted out.
chrishent
2016-03-17 10:53:44
Blvd of the Allies is so overly wide, it would have been perfect for a bikeway. The only reason I can think for not using it is that it would be tough to figure out how to handle the huge Grant/Blvd-of-the-Allies intersection. Bikes handle it all the time currently, though, with no bike lanes. Any speaking of tough intersections, now all jail trail users will be led onto the end-of-Smithfield-St-bridge chaos. The good news is that this will be surely be done way sooner than the Mon Wharf connection, so at least everyone that would never ever ride on city streets with traffic will have a way to get from the jail trail (and the bike rental place, and the parking lot on 2nd ave) over to Point State Park and the northside river trails, and vice versa. Benzo, that image looks like a map of the Greenfield end of the jail trail.
alleghenian
2016-03-17 11:05:21
haha, alleghenian. You're right about the greenfield end of the jail trail bit. Quite an astute observation :)
benzo
2016-03-17 11:15:46
This is a route but I don't think it's the best. Following Stanwix all the way from Fort Pitt to Penn Ave (four traffic lights: BOTA, Third, Forbes, Liberty) is a very roundabout way to get to the Point. Because this route is longer than necessary, and because it doesn't go past many important destinations (e.g. Point Park University), I think many cyclists will exit these bike lanes and go their own way, as @chrishent said. I think Smithfield-BOTA-Commonwealth is the better route. Maybe in 20 more years we'll get this right and put protected bike lanes on half the streets, downtown. In the meantime, this will be an improvement over what we have today. Here's that map from Kristin, inlined:
paulheckbert
2016-03-22 07:59:45
It seems like the goal here isn't to connect to the point, it's to connect to the penn ave bikeway. If we look at it like that's the goal instead of connecting to the point, then it works better. I'm warming to the idea. It connects The jail trail (via sidwalk / shared use path), smithfield street bridge, mon wharf (when the ramp is built, but maybe even from parking lot access) to market square, to penn ave bikeway and gives a kind of inner loop around downtown for bike travel. It's the way that's probably easiest for wayfinding since any north south connections in downtown have to deal with a misaligned street grid. So, if you're trying to get from the strip to the jail trail and are not so fond of riding through the maze of streets that just don't line up in any reasonable way, this could be a nice low stress way to do it. Especially when you don't want to be on the trail by the river (see sporting event days, winter when it's icy (and there is no barrier to stop you falling in the river), and when the whole mon wharf, point & trail are flooded in spring time due to heavy rains / snowmelt.
benzo
2016-03-22 09:04:33
I agree that this path is best for connecting to Penn Ave and other parts of downtown, which is fine since the Mon Wharf switchback is supposed to start construction this year (I believe). Also, there is one road that connects north-south without lots of weird jogs: William Penn/Cherry Way. There's one section toward Ft. Pitt that has cobblestones that would have to be addressed, but other than that I think it could actually be the best way to go. Plus, it's low traffic/low speed already.
willb
2016-03-22 10:39:40
William Penn / Cherry Way only really connects well when coming north / south as there are lots of one way sections allowing only southbound traffic. I use this a lot coming from the bikeway at 10th street (or from the trail under the convention center) to boulevard of the allies. There is a chance you could figure a way to reconfigure the street to allow contraflow bike traffic, but I have a feeling it would have to be well protected and inevitably remove some parking.
benzo
2016-03-22 11:54:17
"but I have a feeling it would have to be well protected and inevitably remove some parking." Yes please!
willb
2016-03-23 14:03:15
I like going on William Penn/Cherry when going North/South. I typically take the Penn Ave cycle track until 10th St, then head down 10th/WP/Cherry all the way to BOTA. It's a fairly pleasant route, with only the occasional traffic jam in front of the hotels.
chrishent
2016-03-23 16:00:54
My vote for the connector is a one-way southbound bike lane on William Penn/Cherry, and a one-way northbound bike lane on Smithfield. The streets are pretty calm/slow, already one-way in those directions, and this seems to be what a large number of bikes are already doing anyway to get across downtown. Plus they both connect pretty easily to the Penn Ave lanes at 10th.
alleghenian
2016-03-24 15:24:57