BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

That sucks... but thanks for taking one for the team, none the less. Be safe out there.

@ ajbooth - Thanks so much for following that other one to its conclusion. I hope this guy gets a chance to talk to the judge, too.

The South Hills suck for bike riding. Glad you're ok. Was it a similar situation to the last one? You could ask the Lebo cop for his cell# so you can alert him to when you're in his jurisdiction. He might go for it, not sure until you ask.

Mick wrote:@ ajbooth – Thanks so much for following that other one to its conclusion. I hope this guy gets a chance to talk to the judge, too.

Mick, I hope so too. The local magistrate is a good friend, and would rip this guy a new one if he gets in front of him. The last guy didn't show for his initial hearing, was found guilty, and got bumped right to the county level so my friend never saw him.

Marko82 wrote:Was it a similar situation to the last one? You could ask the Lebo cop for his cell# so you can alert him to when you’re in his jurisdiction. He might go for it, not sure until you ask.

The initial buzz happened in Dormont. The confrontation happened in Lebo, when I was filtering and drifted into my way and rolled his window down. The officer was pretty good about it, we'll see where it goes from here. I lost my temper, really really bad, and that's on video too. Hope it doesn't hurt my case.

Just don't post your justifiably angry cyclist videos here & you'll be fine.

Sorry to hear that you're dealing with more of the same scary crap out there. Good luck with the case, and out there generally. Also, good luck at home. I sympathize with your wife's sentiment, and can't fault her or you if you do make that decision. I'd just say that those like yourself who've managed to bike in the south hills have done an intensely valuable thing in the civic sense, showing that something is possible to an audience wouldn't get that message otherwise. A hearty thank you for what you've done so far, riding and bringing drivers to justice, whatever your decision for the future. And do let me know if you want to head up Sycamore together some time.

On that topic of showing what's possible you can go too long without a shout out to our very own McKnight rider, Stu. Seriously, someone with some skills (and photoshop), photoshop this one, pretty please?

I am sorry to hear this. Lately I have had 3 close calls in 3 weeks. Be safe.

"Just don’t post your justifiably angry cyclist videos here & you’ll be fine." Or yell at an old guy for being confused because you don't know the right of way at an intersection, and then hold a grudge for a year and a half when somebody calls you out on it

I guess I better start rolling more video. The stupid battery in my helmet cam craps out after 20 minutes on a good day, which has severely limited my recording. I don't bike McKnight much. Too annoying. Not the kind of annoying in the OP, just a lot of fast traffic, and I don't feel like hammering all the time. Gotta hand it to you, @ajbooth -- Commuting in from south requires a special form of cojones.

Marko82 wrote:The South Hills suck for bike riding. Glad you’re ok.

I don't even like driving down there, let alone bike riding. All I can say is good luck to you. Have you even considered a move? Maybe to the East End or around Millvale or Aspinwall? It is pretty crazy down there. Thanks for posting and also thanks for reporting it.

gg wrote:Have you even considered a move? Maybe to the East End or around Millvale or Aspinwall? It is pretty crazy down there.

That thought never even entered my mind. No, not planning a move other than to warmer climates when my kids are done with school.

StuInMcCandless wrote:Gotta hand it to you, @ajbooth — Commuting in from south requires a special form of cojones.

There's a fine line between brave and stupid, and I'm now starting to wonder which side I'm on.

This might be on the stupid side, but when I'm riding through hairy parts of town or usually when I'm going through a tunnel on 885 under the airport, I think "I'd rather die doing what I want to do than change my lifestyle to accommodate people driving like idiots"

AJ, have you thought about hanging your first right off 19 and then Broadway? It's super steep for a bit but after that the traffic is great. You can take that past the worst of Dormont.

I've done that several times Chris, and it is actually my preferred route. But yesterday I was in a hurry, because it was my wife's birthday and we had dinner reservations. Should have stuck to my route, because the 911 call and police report took longer than the extra hill. Still made it home and had a great dinner with my wife, though!

I don't even think it's an extra hill. I think you're just doing a majority of the elevation change all at once vs more slowly. Such a weird road. High speed 4 lanes that funnels into Dormont where they have purposely tuned their lights to jam up traffic.

ajbooth wrote:The officer was pretty good about it, we’ll see where it goes from here. I lost my temper, really really bad, and that’s on video too. Hope it doesn’t hurt my case.

I want to reiterate here (I'm looping here): The best, most satisfying curse for drivers I know is "drunkard" but other things like "incompetent clown," "reckless fool," and the interrupting repetion of the phrase "you shouldn't be driving" have their merits, too. I'd love to have a judge hear the dulcet tones of me yelling "YO! DRUNKARD!" at a driver.

Mick, I wish I had the presence of mind to remember that last night. My blood was boiling, and the guy was threatening to kick my @%$#ing ass, so I wasn't thinking clearly.

quizbot wrote:Just don’t post your justifiably angry cyclist videos here & you’ll be fine.

One of ajbooths videos caused a drunkard to get fined. Like, in a court of law. To me, that justifies any number of his videos being posted here.

To update: Spoke to Mt Lebanon Police last night. The officer was very understanding. Because my video camera was pointed ahead (mounted on handlebar) and most of the altercation happened along side, he did not feel I could pursue and win anything based on that part of the story. However, the buzz incident was, in his words, "Clearly a violation" and he recommended contacting the Pittsburgh Police, since it happened just before the Dormont border. I e-mailed the Zone 6 Commander last night, received an almost immediate response, and just hung up the phone with a detective this morning. He has viewed the video, and agrees that it is a violation. He is not inclined to pursue reckless driving, because it is too difficult to prove. We talked about the four foot law, and when I told him about last week's P-G editorial, and how the City Police took some heat for not enforcing it, he said "Well, we've got one now." He is planning to call the driver this morning, and mail him a citation for violating the four foot law. I'll update again as I hear more.

ajbooth wrote:Mick, I wish I had the presence of mind to remember that last night. My blood was boiling, and the guy was threatening to kick my @%$#ing ass, so I wasn’t thinking clearly.

Practice. There are plenty of times on any bike trip when you can say in your head, "Go through a stop sign, drunkard," or "That's OK, drunkard, the posted speed limit is really just a suggested minimum," or any description of whatever drunkard activity is appropriate. "Drunkard" has that satisfying rhythm that all effective curses have. I'm saying this not just to ajbooth, but speaking as elder spokes person (pun acknowledged but unintended) to our whole community. Let the shouts of bicyclists ring through the streets : "FOUR FEET, DRUNKARD! It's the LAW!" (sorry, I'm letting my ego overcome good sense here. It happens)

Mick wrote:One of ajbooths videos caused a drunkard to get fined. Like, in a court of law.To me, that justifies any number of his videos being posted here.

Thanks Mick, I was ignoring that post because I wasn't sure what Quizbot's point was.

ajbooth wrote:“Well, we’ve got one now.”

YEAH DUDE!

Wow, the first citation for violating the 4-foot law in Allegheny County! Congratulations, ajbooth! Edit, BTW this more than anything has got me thinking about getting a camera...

Wow. A camera seems to be a great idea for cyclists. If this guy is going to get a citation with the video as proof, I have to think seriously about investing in a cam. If enough cyclists have them, the word may slowly spread and people may not want to chance a ticket. I just figured the cops would blow this off, but they don't seem to be doing that. Thank you for pursuing this matter like you did. I am pretty darn impressed at the entire process. Glad you had a nice dinner.

gg wrote:Wow. A camera seems to be a great idea for cyclists. If this guy is going to get a citation with the video as proof, I have to think seriously about investing in a cam.

The day before this happened, I was in Appeals Court downtown with a driver from a similar incident in December. He was charged with reckless driving, but pled down to careless. Still $$ and points on his license. I never even had to testify, as the officer and the prosecutor said, "The video speaks for itself"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++1! I hope the 4-foot-law ticket sticks. I say this because the driver can choose to fight this at the magistrate level and who knows how well that will go. But video does seem to be the way to go.

This ranks right up there with Erica getting that invalid North Ridgeville OH bike law taken off the books. We have clout!

Just ordered my ContourROAM from Amazon. $150 including 32GB memory + handlebar mount. Worth it if I can get one ticket enforcing the 4-foot law.

Or, if you have a cheapie cell phone and a wire hanger, but not money (or just not a willingness to spend it): http://localhost/mb/topic/anyone-with-a-smartphone-and-wire-hanger-can-record-their-rides

Thanks for that link, Stu. I missed that thread and it's a good read!

I hope it sticks too. If it goes before the magistrate, I'll be there.

AJ, in my book, you're a fucking super hero.

cburch wrote:AJ, in my book, you’re a fucking super hero.

+1(k)

The day before this happened, I was in Appeals Court downtown with a driver from a similar incident in December. He was charged with reckless driving, but pled down to careless. Still $$ and points on his license. I never even had to testify, as the officer and the prosecutor said, “The video speaks for itself” _____________ That really is great. I always feel the citizens of the US are totally against cyclists, but I guess if you have a video of someone being aggressive towards you, police may actually be on your side! You give me hope. Thanks. You are indeed a superhero!

My suggestion -- mount the camera on your helmet, not your handlebars. It'll record everything you're looking at.

ajbooth, this is cool! and thanks for creating a precedent!

This brings me to another question: why are there not signs that say cyclists get 4 feet by law? The share the road signs aren't cutting it.

stefb wrote:This brings me to another question: why are there not signs that say cyclists get 4 feet by law? The share the road signs aren’t cutting it.

That's a great question. As the police officer told me yesterday, a lot of people don't understand the law, and they get angry based on what they THINK the law should be.

mpm wrote:My suggestion — mount the camera on your helmet, not your handlebars. It’ll record everything you’re looking at.

I had it on my helmet, and it made me realize how much I move my head when I commute. Watching the video playback almost made me nauseous.

stefb wrote:This brings me to another question: why are there not signs that say cyclists get 4 feet by law? The share the road signs aren’t cutting it.

+1

I still think we should get BikePgh to make 4 feet please license plates. With 5,000 members they'd sell out in a hurry, BikePgh would make money, and lots of folks would learn about the 4-foot law. http://localhost/mb/topic/lets-get-bikepgh-specialty-license-plates/#post-270600

ajbooth wrote:

Mick wrote:One of ajbooths videos caused a drunkard to get fined. Like, in a court of law.To me, that justifies any number of his videos being posted here.

Thanks Mick, I was ignoring that post because I wasn’t sure what Quizbot’s point was.

Quizbot has posted videos here before, and gotten yelled at from certain quarters for yelling at drivers and other actions that some more pacific members of the mb thought were overly aggressive.

"If you just learned about the 4 foot law, you're driving too close." I'm not convinced a license plate is big enough to usefully convey a message about the 4 foot law. Street signage would be better. The next time the city puts up Share the Road signs in response to a bike collision, make some of them about the 4 foot law instead.

I am actually against the idea of a license plate. At least I would not purchase one. Reasoning: I am rarely in my car, and my wife would take the bulk of the heat concerning the plate. Things would not end well.

Steven wrote:I’m not convinced a license plate is big enough to usefully convey a message about the 4 foot law. Street signage would be better.

The update to the Federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices that approved sharrows also included a 'Bikes May Use Full Lane' sign: http://www.cyclelicio.us/2009/new-federal-traffic-signs-standard-includes-bike-signs/ > 02 The Bicycles May Use Full Lane sign may be used in locations where it is important to inform road users that bicyclists might occupy the travel lane. -- MUTCD 2009, Section 9B.06 ...we should get some.

buffalo buffalo wrote:Quizbot has posted videos here before, and gotten yelled at from certain quarters for yelling at drivers and other actions that some more pacific members of the mb thought were overly aggressive.

Well, I certainly won't be posting video of this incident then...even I blush when I hear myself. I was as angry as I've been in a long time.

Hey, I caught a driver making a close pass on Tilbrook Road out here in Monroeville. I took photos of the pass to the Monroeville Police Department last night. It was kind of a weird interaction. I felt really out of place, like a whiny biker talking to the big police officer, who matched exactly in body type and booming voice the guy who gave me a ticket for taking the lane. And seemed similarly uninformed. He'd never heard of the 4-foot law. Anyway, after some questioning that seemed directed to why I was complaining since all the guy did was pass me close, he agreed to call the owner of the car. No ticket, since I can't identify the driver. I guess it's better than nothing, and I did get a chance to educate another human being about the 4-foot law. It appears that suburban cops don't spend a lot of time keeping up to date on changes in bicycling law.

My wife, who's an R.N., has to take 30 hours of training every other year to maintain her license. I do not understand how someone who also deals with public safety and people's lives is not also required to do likewise. I was originally thinking about this for drivers. I'm now starting to think about that for cops, too. Taking that one further, when I worked in Nuclear Safety, we had to be trained on every new regulation, and sign on the dotted line that we had such training, or we would not be able to keep our jobs.

I had a driver in such a hurry this morning that he/she came within 6 inches of hitting my back wheel. I braced for impact. I was heading straight through a green on grant in the left lane in order to turn left at blvd of the allies. I had my 800 lumen light on my helmet. I was shining it at the car coming in opposite direction. He/she put a turn signal on as he/she was making their left as he/She was cutting diagonally across the block into my lane of travel at 40mph. I really don't know how I wasn't hit.

@ stu I am actually against the idea of a license plate. At least I would not purchase one. Reasoning: I am rarely in my car, and my wife would take the bulk of the heat concerning the plate. Things would not end well. That's a good reason for you and your wife not to get one of those plates. IMO, it isn't a good reason to be against the plates.

Yeah, different things, you're right.

I was thinking about getting a ride camera but I couldn't decide whether to mount it on front or back. Lots of bad things happen from behind me, but (usually) you can't get a license plate number from the front of a car. I kind of think I need both. Any cheap but reasonable suggestions? (My commute is less than half an hour, so I could probably live with limited storage space.)

Mount it backward. If shit happens and the car passes you, yell out the plate number the second you see it. Your video will capture the sound of you yelling, which is evidence enough, and the video itself will clearly show that you were in the right and that someone else was not. Yell it twice, clear as a bell.

Yet another reason to have a camera. Police make up their own story on "accident", from Downunder: http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1762963/cyclist-hit-by-car-challenges-police-over-fine-video-evidence/

Another thing to remember is that the driver probably won't get a ticket unless you see them. You can and should still report the incident, because the police can contact the car owner, but if you have a chance to catch up and view the driver -- better, get a picture -- without risk to yourself, you should do that.