BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Yay! They're back!

Nice! I'd love to see a pic. I don't get over there often.

I took this photo on April 20th while biking up 44th between Liberty and Penn.

Wow, I didn't realize just how crap-tacular that picture is, but you can just make out the ponytail and boob-bump on the profile of that cyclist. Based on those attributes, I believe that sharrow is presenting as female.

I think we need to break out of road-marking gender binaries. It would be a start. (Modified image below presented in best spirit, no offense to anybody)

Here is one of the ones on 44th St.

I think they all need to be women. It is a psychological thing.

Cycling is biased towards men in this country. Inviting women to join in is a good idea, I think. And the playful nature of the stencil contextualizes its underground source in a way that makes it acceptable. Like yarn-bombing.

"Cycling is biased towards men in this country." I never thought of that. I don't think it is in Pittsburgh, is it? I see a lot of women on bikes and really never gave that part much thought. I just like the ponytail, it seems happy and not so boring.

Vannevar: "I think we need to break out of road-marking gender binaries. It would be a start." I couldn't agree more. And I like the image edit!

Does it really make a woman feel better to see these?

A ponytail does not necessarily indicate a woman.

Nor does a traditionally-female username

For what it's worth, the story of the "Cheryl" supposedly goes like this... one of the people putting down these guerrilla markings was talking to a guy about sharrows in general - unrelated to the female-oriented markings. They guy misheard and said, "what are they called? Cheryls?" and the "Cheryl" was born.

I like it that they're called "Cheryls". I didn't know that. It's a great name.

Are you people seriously arguing over the gender of an outline of a person that has a ponytail and boobs? Imagine having real problems.

I love whimsical, humorous guerrilla art and ambiguous graffiti (not the big, ugly tags on private property/homes, mind you) . So, yes... this makes me happy. My gender has nothing to with it, nor the gender of the Sharrow Graffiti.

i think it's actually davy crockett with a racoon-skin hat. or maybe some new-agey guy doing a yoga pose using two exercise balls

I *really* want a raccoon tail for my bike helmet now.

I see raccoons occasionally along the side of the road. Next time, I'll cut off the tail and save it for you.

Ick. Thanks, but no. I was thinking more along the lines of a faux fur one that doesn't have fleas and tire tracks. Also, I should never Google 'faux raccoon tail' unless I want to learn about the mating rituals of Furries.

"Imagine having real problems." And who better to decide whether or not an issue is worthy of debate than a presumably straight white male Alternative genders would be interesting

Alternative bicycle types would be interesting, too. Tandems, kiddie trailers and tagalongs might be good ways to emphasize that not all urban cyclists are skinny hipsters or lycra-clad speed demons. I do recall seeing a stencil from the Pacific NW with a briefcase and tie flying behind, but can't find it now...I really liked that one. (Unlike Steevo, who *obviously* does not know his allotted place, I do realize that, as a presumably straight white male, I automatically lack credibility in any discussion of any form of economics, history, gender, race, or culture...that's why I try to only talk about recumbents, distance cycling, and fart jokes. 'Cause hey, dismissing people based on their skin color or gender rather than their words and actions is how the cool kids do things, right?)

Oh, man. I love this one: https://flic.kr/p/2Qn2Y And this: https://flic.kr/p/8t3Z8d

The whole point of these symbols isn't to be inclusive, it's to be a standard icon that always makes its meaning unambiguous: Do you really want drivers spending time on interpretation?

Those last seem clear enough. Yoda conducting an orchestra, with Amish guy on keyboards.

Hug or escape?

If Steevo is a cool guy, his infrequent postings don't convey it. I recall him complaining as a vegetarian about me talking about veganism, bashing neighborhoods he doesn't live in while trying to say that gun violence (in say Homewood) is a danger to cyclists, and is now saying "Hey, we don't care if your gender isn't included in anything, fuck you." So yeah, if his actions are different than his words, I'd be surprised as anybody else. If Steevo has experience with gender studies, by all means, please weigh in. "Do you really want drivers spending time on interpretation?" Slowing down and actually looking at the road would be a positive change for a lot of drivers

Golly gee whizzz, I didn't mean for it to turn out like this.

@Pierce: Don't use someone's skin color, gender, or sexual preferences as an excuse to dismiss their words. It's that simple.

People, please take a step back for a sec and just try your best to appreciate this for what it is. Certainly, nothing is beyond critique, but it seems to me, these are just some well-intentioned people trying to draw attention to biking in Pittsburgh on streets that had no markings previously with a bit bit of humor by pointing out that, if anything, the "official" bike lane markings look a bit more like males within the dominant binary gender paradigm. If the media asked me what I think of these markings I would say something along the lines of, "I understand why people are taking it on themselves to put these stencils down. The City isn't keeping up with demand for safe, multimodal streets." I would not say, "I'd be fine with these as long as they didn't tilt toward any type of gender identity."

Humor may be part of it, but I think part is calling attention to the irony that a progressive city development like sharrows often doesn't adopt similarly progressive gender portrayals. In other words, using male as the default gender is on the same end of the progressive-to-conservative scale as thinking roads are only for cars. Using female as the default gender (perhaps using "her" not "him" for someone of unknown gender, or making generic stick figures look female) is at the same end as painting sharrows or providing bike share, on that scale. When the city paints traditional sharrows, it's mixing old and new thinking.

This is what our sharrows look like:

@WillB, obviously a male bike -- check the pedal hanging down below the bottom bracket.

This is separate from the lighter discussion on gendered sharrows: ==== @Reddan If your skin color, gender, or sexual preferences put you in a position to experience the least amount of problems in society and the greatest rewards, don't be so quick to dismiss the concerns of those who aren't in that position. Doubly so when you're not likely to have any experience with that other position. If he has some gender studies background, by all means, share it. When somebody questions gender binaries in society and his response is "imagine having real problems," those are words that illustrate the ignorance his position as a straight, white male has allowed him. I'm not dismissing his words based on those criteria, I'm seeing how those criteria are directly influencing what he's saying. But yeah man, maybe he's right. Imagine having real problems. Like damn it. I just want to read this message board without having to worry about people complaining about gender binaries. I mean gender binaries probably don't even have any effect on society. Maybe I should focus my critiques on even BIGGER issues, that effect even MORE people. Maybe animal use and global warming and how that's causing extreme weather events across the globe! Oh wait, he's complained about me talking about veganism too though... ========== From Will's stencil, having people-less stencils is another option :)

@Pierce, check your PMs...no need to continue this online. @WillB, thanks for injecting a note of reality. :-)

(Pesky reality, stomping all over my perfectly good theory.) Would it better if the city included the image of a person in their sharrows? It's another reminder for drivers that there are people on those bikes, a bit like Bike Pgh's billboard campaign.

I finally got a chance to see these yesterday and I have mixed feelings. On one side, I applaud the effort. It is great when people take matters into their own hands and get things done. OTOH, the position of these markings seems to be off (compared to the official sharrows) and there is no continuity, they abruptly stop at the Penn Ave intersection. I am worried that the unscientific placement of these markers may lead to confusion among both cyclists and drivers. Confusion is not safe.

And for breakfast, thread flambé ... Cool down everybody. (presumably) straight white guy with a ponytail (but my ponytail isn't perky - it's the perky ponytail that gender types the image. Never could perk my tail... I'll stop there)

" (but my ponytail isn’t perky – it’s the perky ponytail that gender types the image. Never could perk my tail… I’ll stop there)" It helps to flip your head upside-down and get the tail up towards the top of your head. Unfortunately those perky tails don't fit under a helmet, so Cheryl must be a head-baring risk taker...

Confusion is not safe.

confusion is sex. or perhaps confusion is next?

Pierce where did I say " Hey, we don’t care if your gender isn’t included in anything, fuck you." ? Please show me how you got to that conclusion. What I said was "I cant imagine arguing over the gender of a drawing on the cement." You can call it whatever gender you want, but when you start to question what other people call it, you are doing some weird dictating of the conversation. I know somebody who was shot while riding a bike in East Lib.... SO The vegan thread I think that I just said that people like you make me embarrassed to say that I am vegetarian. Similar to this thread you came in and dictated how the thread was ran. Similar to this thread, you took away people's ability to have input because you were assuming that they identify as straight white men or whatever.

So, wait. The markings on Negley are guerrilla? That's awesome. But wait - people are bent over the gender of the markings? Really?

Different reading of the same sentence. You said: "Are you people seriously arguing over the gender of an outline of a person that has a ponytail and boobs? Imagine having real problems." You clarified with "I can't imagine arguing over what the particular gender of this outline is." relevent I took the initial statement as "having a conversation about what genders are represented in society isn't a conversation worth having and gender binaries isn't a *real* problem" So you were more reading into what gender that particular stencil was and I was thinking about the broader conversation and both elements preceded your post in the thread. Rereading the thread again, people weren't even arguing over the gender of the stencil. They were simply pointing out that if some attributes typically attributed to women are there, it doesn't necessarily mean the person depicted is a woman. If you don't value people pointing out exceptions to gender stereotypes, okay, sorry, you chose/had to read two posts of it. *I* don't see the value of injecting oneself in a conversation and saying "I don't see the value of this, imagine having real problems." Like fuck, there are an infinite number of issues, interests and problems I don't value or understand. So what? To quote Colin, (kind of), go piss in your own cheerios. Granted, my statement of “Hey, we don’t care if your gender isn’t included in anything, fuck you.” is a typical case of Pierce drastic hyperbole, which a wiser man wouldn't have said or would have asked for clarification before jumping to conclusions on what your position is. Sorry. I also don't want to exclude anybody from commenting, which is why I said *presumably* trait x,y,z. I can be more cautious with that, and would have for someone lesser known. Eh, actually, damn it, Pierce is wrong again, those traits aren't particularly relevant. I could argue with your post without even mentioning those traits, like i just did. So yeah, I don't need to bring them into the conversation either. Sorry for that too.

and for desert. thread reflambé. dump water bottles of ice water on heads. chill. brilliant day. got a nice 70 mi in and no perky cheryls. pity.

Pierce, you have always been nice and pleasant to converse with and ride with in person, but shut up. Come on, people. Instead of spending energy on focusing on the gender of road markings, get more ladies into cycling. More and more women are showing up than before, but there are still rides I do where I am the only woman in a group of 15-20 men.

@quizbot: obviously that last sign is "Warning: Hippies with Loose Belt Crossing", right?

The artist leaves interpretation of the work to the viewer.

I have revised my opinion of "cheryls", After looking at the rest of the bicycle related markings around the city, these ones are no more random than others. As a matter of fact, I quite like them, and I am willing to chip in some dough for paint. We need to start a guerilla fund.