BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

correction: 1st incident was May 13th, not the 3rd.

Interesting.

I had some jackass in Bloomfield in a red Jeep Liberty covered in American flags and Steeler logos try to run me over at the Bloomfield Bridge light maybe 6 months ago. I figured with such a flamboyant clown car, I'd be sure to see him again...

Fast forward two or three weeks and I ventured to the Strip with my folks for breakfast. And there it is, parked right out front of Pamela's. And so on my mom's nicest purse stationary, with flowers and kitten all over the lavender colored paper, I wrote a little note to the effect of "I'd suggest getting a less conspicuous vehicle if you plan on continuing to harass and intimidate other road users. Signed, Your Neighbor" and stuck it under the guy's windshield wiper.

I've since seen this exact same Jeep Liberty going past my house and throughout Bloomfield a few times. I'd like to think he's now worried that someone is on to him, but if I had to bet I'd put money on him reading my note and racing home to kick his dog.

Being that I live on Liberty Ave and travel through Bloomfield a few dozen times per week, I'll keep an eye out for the said Lexus.

Morale of the story is that we have to watch out for over priced Japanesse SUV's. I can't believe how many near death experiences have been reported lately. I hope Steve P. is checking these posts and is taking the info to his police liason. Someone is going to get killed before this stuff is taken seriously.

I have had run ins with both drivers actually. The one quizbot mentions I was able to confront and he believes that bikes have no business on the road and has it out for cyclists. I was completely out of his way and he still insisted on honking at me and passing me aggressively.

The one BradQ mentions drives like a maniac. Your typical "support our troops" magnet person who treats those around them like assholes. He will give you no room going 30mph.

I wish we all had helmet cameras. Sounds like we have just about enough evidence to get these jerks in front of a judge, but not quite enough to win a case. Like Mr. Z, they need a stern talking to by Someone With Authority, at the very least, and preferably a 30-day license suspension.

BradQ, got a plate # for the Jeep? Better yet a photo?

The ATC2K is going for as low as 50 bucks... Should be sufficient for commute. Video is the new colorway.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=atc2k&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=3286372901&ref=pd_sl_74yfsm96m7_b

Please read this blog: http://pittsburghguy.blogspot.com/

i've had run-ins with the lexus... it was actually pretty funny though, he was on thomas blvd and i was riding down the middle of the road, with only about a block to go (at the end of thomas i'm not comfortable letting cars pass because of the huge boulevard thing and all the cars parked, there just isn't enough room and its only like 30 seconds) he pulls up behind me and starts revving his engine and is getting really close... i start to turn left on fifth (or is it washington there) and he goes around me on my left side to turn right, going out of his way to cut me off and screams something insanely out his passenger window, so i just turn right behind him and pull up beside him at the light at the bottom of the hill and he said "you think you're fuckin special kid?" and i said "thats what my mom tells me!" and then i stuck my tongue out and pulled a uturn... he was dumbfounded

ha ha. you're a qwik one

The 80/20 rule, and the experiences posted here, suggest that a minority of drivers account for a disproportionate share of these assaults.

And unfortunately, the "broken windows" theory of policing suggests that the existence of these miscreants encourages other people to commit crimes in turn.

Taking just a dozen of these criminals off the road would improve things dramatically. Again, the 80/20 rule suggests that the first dozen punished would probably include the worst repeat offenders.

djrbikes, you're the lawyer here. Is there any legal action can be taken if the police won't get involved, or are we limited to "name and shame" tactics?

OK i just joined the site yesterday, to put my story of being attacked by a driver, out there in hopes of making something happen. I do have a question tho. Is there always this many horror stories being put up or is this just a busy week?

here's what the smoothoperator website says

To Report an Aggressive Driving Incident that Occurred in Pennsylvania*:

There are two methods for reporting an aggressive driver in Pennsylvania to law enforcement. You can report an aggressive driver when the action is occurring, or you can file a report with the appropriate law enforcement agency after the fact. To report a driver when he/she is exhibiting the aggressive driving behavior, dial 911 and your call should be directed to the appropriate jurisdiction. Contacting 911 should only occur if the incident is currently taking place. To report an aggressive driving incident, you must be able to identify the operator of the vehicle and provide a tag number, car make and model and be willing to serve as a witness. If you need to contact the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP), you may access the website http://www.psp.state.pa.us. This website contains all of the PSP station addresses and telephone numbers, as well as the respective counties that they patrol.

http://www.smoothoperatorprogram.com/aggressive_reporting.html#pa

looks like we're still at square one.

willie: this is a busy week. a lot of the stories on here are really just responses to the jomar thing that have happend over the summer that people just never posted.... i would say on average I have 1 mentionably bad experience with a driver every 30 or so hours of riding time... so if I am on my bike 2 hours a day thats about once every two weeks.

All of this is making me not even want to ride around the city anymore.

don't let a few drivers get you down. there are many more happy stories out there than bad. we only make threads about the bad ones.

I think this is a busy week. And there are a lot more cyclists on the roads then in previous years, and a lot of them are inexperienced, so there are bound to be more conflicts. My experiences are not as bad as imakwik1's. I usually only have a couple two or three "bad experiences" a year, and those consist mostly of being honked at or yelled at. I have a lot more bad experiences in a car, though there is admittedly a big difference to being surrounded by two tons of metal and glass. In 15 years of riding in Pittsburgh, I have had one experience of someone making threats -- "Get off the road or I'm gonna fucking hit you" (which I reported to the police with no effect), and one experience with a truck driver who *might* have intentionally tried to force me off the road (which I reported to the trucking company).

I can get a helmet cam and use the smoothoperator approach, though I don't think that being honked at or yelled at (despite being illegal) is going to be enough to get "the appropriate jurisdiction" to take action, when willie's and djrbikes' experiences didn't move the needle. I'm wondering what it takes to file a private criminal action for cases of vehicular assault.

Why don't I have the full-on spittle-flecked screaming motorist trying to run over me kind of confrontations? I'm guessing it's a couple of things. Not escalating confrontations is one, and riding predictably and smoothly is another. I think a lot of the time, motorists get frustrated and frightened when they can't predict what cyclists are going to do next, and that turns into anger. While driving out Liberty Avenue not too long ago, I saw a cyclist suddenly bolt from the right lane of Liberty Ave outbound, turn left across three lanes of traffic, and blitz up the sidewalk of one of the major cross streets in the Strip. Might have been 21st St. It pissed me off, and I'm about as sympathetic to cyclists as any motorist is ever going to be. I suspect that some of the occasional crap that I *do* get from motorists is residue from stunts like that.

On a positive note, the "ask a cager the time of day" tactic continues to yield positive interactions. I'll consider it a success when I hear someone asking "what's wrong with all these cyclists that don't wear watches, always asking me the time of day?"

On another positive note, I saw two cyclists riding two abreast outbound on Liberty Ave in the Strip today. Helmetless and carrying grocery bags, but they were riding a good steady pace of about 12-15 mph, holding a smooth line, and you know, I didn't see a single motorist honk at them. They just took their time, waited, changed lanes, and went around.

I think a lot of the time, motorists get frustrated and frightened when they can't predict what cyclists are going to do next, and that turns into anger.

so true.

another take on that is that i think many motorists are expecting cyclists to act erratic and unpredictable, so when they see one that is riding predictably, they aren't as annoyed.

my bad interactions have decreased considerably in the past few years. part of that, i think, is also picking better roads to ride on, and feeliing OK to go a block out of my way for a chiller road

With 4+ years BMX racing, 3 yrs messengering in pgh, and 10+ years road biking under the belt I'm hardly an erratic newbie on the streets...just saying. Mr. Lexus is just an extraordinary douchebag.

oh no doubt. there are always the extraordinary douchebags too. no matter how you ride around this dude, he'd be a prick. i was just tryin' to be posi for willie.

erok you said it. My situation was really extreme. I was not riding erratically or any thing like that. I was sitting at a red light waiting for it to turn when I got beeped at. And thats not even the part that bothered me. The part that set me off was as I rode to the next light she got so close to me I felt it was really unsafe. If I had fallen going even at the 7 or 8 mph i was going she probably would of went right over me before she knew it.

I spend a good bit of my road time on Perry Hwy or Babcock Blvd in the North Hills, and rarely get any trouble from passing motorists. So far, I haven't run into these bozos. *knocks on wood*

It may help that I am usually wearing a blaze orange safety vest and a red blinky on my helmet. Translation: I am *trying* to be visible. Perhaps some drivers mistake me for an authority figure. Whatever. It works for me. I also (mainly) follow the rules, and take the lane very visibly -- by looking over my shoulder, making eye contact with a car at least 200 feet back, signaling the move, and then getting in the path, usually to make a turn, but just as often to get in line at a light.

Assertive, not aggressive. Predictable, not pushy. Visible, but not blindsiding. Hey, it works.

> Perhaps some drivers mistake me for an authority figure.

That's why I bought my biking jacket from a cop catalog. It looks a lot like the City of Pittsburgh cop jackets except that the black and gold color scheme is reversed.

If we all got that same jacket...

I had some jackass in Bloomfield in a red Jeep Liberty covered in American flags and Steeler logos try to run me over at the Bloomfield Bridge light maybe 6 months ago. I figured with such a flamboyant clown car, I'd be sure to see him again...

Fast forward two or three weeks and I ventured to the Strip with my folks for breakfast. And there it is, parked right out front of Pamela's. And so on my mom's nicest purse stationary, with flowers and kitten all over the lavender colored paper, I wrote a little note to the effect of "I'd suggest getting a less conspicuous vehicle if you plan on continuing to harass and intimidate other road users. Signed, Your Neighbor" and stuck it under the guy's windshield wiper.

I've since seen this exact same Jeep Liberty going past my house and throughout Bloomfield a few times. I'd like to think he's now worried that someone is on to him, but if I had to bet I'd put money on him reading my note and racing home to kick his dog.

Same jackass buzzed me and honked all menacing-like as I waited behind a stopped school bus today. I was obviously waiting behind a school bus. He was obviously being a jackass.

Since I last posted, I've realized that this guy not only regularly parks outside of Pamela's, but he works there too. There are pictures of him all over the restaurant.

So if you get harassed, hit or run off the road by some guy in a red Jeep Liberty covered in flags and Steelers stickers you know where to look for him. I plan on noting his license plate next time I'm in the area.

which pamela's?

Thanks for the follow up. Sounds like the Strip's Pamela's.

Thanks for the tip. Post a photo so I know which guy it is.

Strip Dist Pamela's for the Jeep Liberty guy. I wonder if his employer knows that one of their employees is such an aggressive driver that people on a message board that have never met him besides behind the wheel are discussing his driving habits.

Here's a hypothetical for people: Let's say this guy was to eventually run someone down. Would these postings, separated by 9 months, showing clear "motive" of menacing cyclists, be enough to prove that the crime was premeditated? I could identify the guy in a lineup, and his car is so unique that it might as well be his fingerprint.

Eat outside at Chicken Latino and scowl at him. Shelbin and her boys are bike-friendly.

I work down there. If I see his Jeep, I'll snap a few pics of his plate and other unique features and send them to yous.

This guy sounds like a real piece of work. It's possible his tire valve cores are just in too tight. Someone should take a valve core removal tool, cheap little tool, and pull out all 4, just to check them and make sure they are in good shape. If they're ok just put them under his windshield wiper. Totally harmless to the car, but I bet he would appreciate it.

The opinions expressed herein are entirely those of the author and on no way represent the views of Bikepgh or any affiliates....

I spotted that jeep in front of pamelas a couple months ago and recognized it just from the stories on this board - I've never had the misfortune of seeing it in motion.

has anyone filed a police report for any of these offenders? seems like having the license playe should be enough to really teach these aggressive bike haters a lesson.

Maybe we should start this too. Awfully appropriate yehuda: http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2010-05-10

I've thought about that, although not the color-coding part... seems like a paintball gun would be the most effective delivery mechanism. let's do it!

hah, like the hobos chalking people's houses in the 1930s.

For all intents and purposes, I believe that *any* customization -- bumper sticker, fuzzy dice, trucknutz -- is a pretty good indicator of somebody who identifies too closely with their car.

With some exception for bicycle-specific stickers or bathtub flowers, I suppose.

I would put the FSM "fish" on my bike if there was a large enough piece of frame that would hold it. Plenty of space on the back of my car, though.

I've been thinking about these aggressive drivers and although I like the idea of checking someones valve cores or administering a blood red paintball, water soluble of course, I'm not sure that would be the most effective and would most certainly create an us vs. them situation and probably further enrage these aggressive bike haters.

I'm thinking of a carefully worded form letter I could hand out or leave on a vehicle, one that perhaps even invites them to this forum to discuss their feelings. I don't think I'm the best person to write this letter as I'm a bit sarcastic and I hate cars, anybody more diplomatic then I to help word the letter, Also is this a good idea or not?

I recall a discussion like that on these boards and on teh intarwebs a while back, look around.

I thought about dropping Pamela's a note "from a former customer".

"Please, Sir, we know who you are. We are not threatening you, but you are threatening our lives, through your repeated and well-documented actions of antagonistic behavior toward cyclists over an extended period of time.

Sincerely,

The Pittsburgh cycling community"

I saw the red jeep with american flag/eagle/steelers crap outside the Oakland Pamela's just now, loading piles of food containers into the back. It was a dark skinned, short black hair, skinny guy driving. Plate was GTG-1555 (?), I only saw it as it was pulling away. You can't miss the car though, it was way over the top with yinzer kitsch.

We ought to find out who the owner of the red jeep is. Once we do, we could write to Pamela's and state that we won't eat there until the guy is gone.

If the guy is the owner? Well, I don't think we want to eat there.

I haven't eaten at Pamelas since I first read about this. Maybe I should drop them a note about it.

Just sent to the email on Pamela's site:

Your company should know about some extremely bad publicity you are getting.

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/bloomfieldliberty-ave-lexus-330-road-rager/page/2#post-34508

I'ts a bit of a long thread and only partly about one of your management employees.

I doubt that Pamela's can do much about this. That's a shame, because I enjoy eating at Pamela's, and I doubt that I ever will again.

Two older white ladies own it (Pam Cohen and Gail Klingensmith)[1]. Definitely not the driver of said jeep that I saw today. I'm assuming they don't know anything about the antics of their alleged employee. I'm also not sure what his employment has to do with the way he drives. Give the guy a ticket, charge him with a crime. I don't know if boycotting his employer is a sensible action unless he was driving around in a company vehicle (though from what I witnessed today, it appears his jeep is being used for business errands, at the very least).

[1] http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/family/19549151/detail.html

I imagine it will cause the red jeep's employer to bring it to his attention, at least. That is far more than you can usually do about a road rager.

I was riding on Hamilton Ave near Dallas Ave and saw the red jeep. He was going my direction but didn't cause any issues. It was a wide lane and he gave me plenty of room and was going approx. 25mph. Dunno.

The guy with the red Jeep, seems to be a shame... I go to Pamela's every weekend in the strip and have never seen someone so happy to bus tables. It reminds me how great and affordable this city is and if I went elsewhere, I could come back to PGH with 200 bucks and probably get back on my feet.

I'll still go to Pamela's, but I'll stay away from him.

I received your messages and I will certainly look into Ron's driving skills. However, to accuse him of "cycle rage" is very unfair. He is just a 72 year old man who has worked for us for 20 odd years. He has a grandson who is a cyclist and both Gail and I have family members who are cyclists.Ron doesn't have a mean bone in his body. Bad driver..maybe. Evil and malicious..no way!

Paamie - Thanks for checking in here!

For the record, I love the food I've had at Pamela's and go to the Strip District location just about every time I go shopping with my mom down there. I also tend to buy her gift certificates from you once or twice per year for her birthday or Mother's Day.

If everyone who had a run in with the Lexus or the Flag car filed a report thru 911 then there would be a pattern of data and it would be easier for the police to get to these harassers.

Hi paamie, thanks for looking us up. I have two suggestions. One, please review the note I drafted towards the top of the page. When 50+ people start comparing notes, it's not hard to get a positive ID. Considering what happened out on Harts Run Road last week, we cyclists are justifiably concerned about our safety.

Two, have his grandson join us next Friday for our next Flock Of Cycles ride. He will find out what sort of people we are, and maybe with that he can get through to his grandfather to be more respectful of us.

We are not out to cause him trouble. We just want to ride our bikes in peace.

I did read all the posts. My understanding was there was an incident 10 months ago at the Bloomfield Bridge. The rest of the posts were sightings of his crazy car. Did I miss something??? The really obnoxious behavior seems to be coming from the a-hole in the Lexus.

Well, there was this:

Same jackass buzzed me and honked all menacing-like as I waited behind a stopped school bus today. I was obviously waiting behind a school bus. He was obviously being a jackass.

I guess maybe that doesn't seem like a big deal -- just honking, right? Except that when someone is right behind you laying on the horn, that's a threat. And it's a pretty serious one coming from a two-ton truck when you're standing almost naked in the street.

I've encountered the red Jeep Liberty all of three or four times over the past year, each time I've been honked at. I've also watched it drive like a maniac down Liberty Ave through my neighborhood honking at other road users. Twice I've been buzzed and felt like I was outright threatened - once at the Bloomfield Bridge, and once just 4 weeks ago as I waited behind a school bus. They were both very threatening experiences. People honk and do stupid stuff in cars all the time, but these are some of the only occasions in the past year or two that I've felt that the driver absolutely was using his car as a weapon, brandishing it the same as you would a gun to intimidate someone. Complete bullshit.

Some people do change dramatically when they get behind the wheel of a car, undoubtedly.

I saw this vehicle on the road today, while out walking, and was encouraged to note that he passed a cyclist on Negley @ Rippey with a 3-4 foot allowance (and this during a busy time of day, nearing 6pm).

Talked to Ron. He is very sorry and there won't be any trouble anymore from the crazy looking red jeep.

Who says ranting in the innertubes won't yield positive outcomes, yeah! Like a G.I. Joe P.S.A.

I saw that vehicle just the other day. It's not a jeep, but a Dodge Nitro, right? Threw me for a bit.

I've never seen it moving, just parked around Chicken Latino (shameless plug). It has many pieces of flair.

i <3 the messageboard sometimes. or maybe just the stupidity of people with easy to point out cars

Awesome. Everyone who stopped can resume eating delicious Pamela's food.