BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Well same could be said for motorists. It is never a good year for them. Lets keep things in perspective. People are going to die on our roads whether it be pedestrians, cyclists, skateboarders or motorists. Do we want to list it all? Here are the motorists mess for some perspective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

You say "lets keep things in perspective." I say, let's stay on topic! Your link has nothing to do with cyclists being hit or Joy Covey. Start a new thread if you want to discuss motor vehicle accidents.

I am just showing there is a ton of carnage on the roads including all that I already listed, making an obvious point. Do we want to tell about every cyclist that gets hit across the country or even around the world, or do we want to discuss what happens in Pittsburgh or what pertains to cyclists in Pittsburgh? Isn't this "Bike Pittsburgh"? Here is a map and list of all cyclists killed last year. http://www.everybicyclistcounts.org/site/map Maybe we should discuss them all, or do you want to focus on that one way out in California? Is it some greater importance that he was a former CFO? Why would I start another thread when it is obvious I am responding to this one? If we do discuss them all, it would be pretty depressing to say the least.

677 bicyclists were killed in the US in 2011, which represents 2% of traffic fatalities in that year. http://www.nhtsa.gov/Bicycles It's difficult to really figure out the denominator to estimate relative safety of different modes of transportation, but the overall theme that concerns many of us is that our roads are designed for cars and are more dangerous for bicycles than they should be. Raising the visbilty of this problem is of general importance to solving it. Sadly, the death of Joy Covey, a notable individual in Silicon Valley, adds to that visibility. Her death is relevant as a very visible symbol to the general cause of bicycle safety. -- As an individual looking after my daily mental happiness I largely agree that it is of little personal benefit to dwell on sadly common tradgedies in places far removed. But for those who wish to explore and discuss these events as part of an larger effort to improve the overall status and respect for bicyclists I can understand that utility. I also appreciate my opportunity and ability to choose what I read and think about as of interest to me, and what I choose to not read or participate in though it be of interest to others.

pretty much what @Astrobiker said, over and over again. maybe we don't know joy covey, and maybe her situation wasn't relevant to ours (it probably was; more on that later), but there are moments when the rest of the world is willing to listen to our plight, and this is one of them. when i first heard of this, i couldn't find anything that wasn't basically an obituary for a famous person; the facts of the collision itself are pretty sparsely reported. my current understanding is that she was left crossed while heading downhill at a pretty high speed. this is one of the most common dangerous situations we as cyclists face (the last time i was hit by an automobile, nearly a decade ago, was this), and it is damned imperative to call attention to it, if the facts are as i have them.

I was riding where she was hit a few weeks ago. In the media it was reported as, "killed in a bicycle accident". I posted a comment to the effect of, "respects to the dead and grieving, but she was killed by a driver - how is that a bike accident?"

Here's another "accident" with no charges pending. The driver feels bad so I guess we should feel sorry for her. And yes gg, these ARE relevant! How many group rides took place in Pgh this year? How many times did participants think that there was safety in numbers? Safety in the group following all the rules? And safety in knowing you are an experienced cyclist with thousands of on-road miles under your tires?

gg wrote:Do we want to tell about every cyclist that gets hit across the country or even around the world, or do we want to discuss what happens in Pittsburgh or what pertains to cyclists in Pittsburgh?

Both. It's important to me as I ride in more places than just Pittsburgh. National trends are also important. Granted, we have an "out-of-town" thread which is a more appropriate place. It would have been one thing to point that out to the OP rather than the sarcastic response I perceived and responded to. There certainly is a place for discussing all motor-vehicle accidents, even the ones not involving bikes... but this isn't an appropriate thread to bring that up sarcastically or to insist that we have that discussion. You are just being a jerk, from my perspective (and this isn't the first time... I don't know if it's intentional or just the way you come across?). So, to be clear... I'm coming from the don't-be-a-jerk angle first and foremost; staying on topic was an afterthought. To get back on topic, I also noticed that the article barely talked about the specifics of the accident. It was essentially blah-blah-blah with a few more details in the last paragraph or two. I never heard of Joy Covey before this, but given her involvement in environmental causes, I imagine we lost a huge bicycling advocate with deep pockets. More importantly, we lost another of our own... Also, on that note, thanks for the everybicyclecounts link, I wasn't familiar with that before this thread. All points noted, just please try to be considerate. You and I both post a lot more often than regentgal and I'd hate to have anyone feel unwelcome here (yourself included).

Marko82 wrote:How many times did participants think that there was safety in numbers? Safety in the group following all the rules?

There is safety in those things, just not absolute safety. As to the MA crash, the article currently says "Police did not say whether Hess will face any charges. The accident remains under investigation." The article was last updated just 9 hours after the crash, so it's no surprise that there were no charges at that point. The article currently says nothing above how the driver feels. But in the comments, somebody located her Facebook account, where in January she posted "Just got a 150$ fine for speeding the cop said he was doing 80 and we flew by him doing like 100 lmao". However bad the driver feels now, hopefully she's due to feel a lot worse.

Marko82 wrote:And yes gg, these ARE relevant!

Considering I provided a map of the amount of deaths there were, I think I know the relevance. Guess I am getting tired of reading about cyclists being killed in Western PA and now we are going to read about the 600+ dead in one short year. Sorry for being so down about it. I am on a bike at least 5 days a week. It is interesting what rolls through my mind as I ride. There are very safe places on my commute and dangerous places. Reading about the piles of carnage makes me wonder if I should stop riding and go to the gym. The thought of that makes my sick. Guess I am getting tired. 677 people dead just from riding a bike. Wonder how many cyclists there are? Is that a horrible number? How could it not be? I agree, Joy knew how to ride on the road AND was riding in a group. We seem to deal with the same thing as motorcycles I guess. People just don't see us. Not even in a group ride. Kind of shocking. What does one learn from all this? Get a mirror, know where every car is around you and ride as if EVERY person is out to get you. Even then, we are at risk and always will be.

It was stated above that cycling fatalities accounted for 2% of total fatalities. I saw somewhere else on the boards (and perhaps someone will be able to confirm this) that ride share for bikes is under 1%. If so, those numbers are disproportionate and indicative of a specialized problem.

gg wrote:Guess I am getting tired of reading about cyclists being killed in Western PA and now we are going to read about the 600+ dead in one short year.

Agreed! It's hard not to. It's hard enough just looking at the number of wrecks/accidents/injuries/wrecks in Pgh. :(

Sorry for the tone gg, but I think we need to start treating all of these deaths (cars/peds/bikes) as angerly as we treat the deaths from terrorism in this country. As bad as the Boston Marathon bombing was - it was only a few deaths. Yet the nation was fixated on the story and the government probably spent millions to make sure that the perpetrators were caught and soon to be punished. Why cant we treat all of these preventable deaths with this much seriousness instead of assigning it to the bottom of page six.

Marko82 wrote:I think we need to start treating all of these deaths (cars/peds/bikes) as angerly as we treat the deaths from terrorism in this country.

+1

Marko82 wrote:Why cant we treat all of these preventable deaths with this much seriousness instead of assigning it to the bottom of page six.

with terrorist attacks, there is a bad guy that we can hate and rail against, whereas most people view being responsible for an automobile-related deaths as something that could happen to them, so there is empathy for those responsible. additionally, we instinctively look to remove empathy for the victim so that we can be comfortable knowing that can't happen to us. unfortunately, they're usually right about the former, but somehow fail to realize that this is a problem about which they should do something.