BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Awesome!

that's how progress is made. I so much appreciate your time and effort and initiative.

Wow, you rock!

@aj, King's office is only two or so miles from me. Refresh this thread as the date gets close and I'll try and show up (with helmet under arm) for moral support if you want it.

Marko, thanks, greatly appreciated. I will update closer to, and will buy the coffee if you'd like to grab one on either side of the hearing.

This was mentioned on here somewhere else, but can't find it: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/7415952-74/charges-frauens-maier#axzz3MSOR4gBf I don't know, I'm predisposed to be lenient on these guys. How did the alleged racing result in a bus rolling down a hill? If they answer that question, I might be more for firing them. They were only going 65 on a 55, which seems tame to most of the speeding I usually encounter.

@pierce, my guess is that it has something to do with physics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

It would've been useful to know what went on at the garage before they left. That said, I'm rather sorry to see this happen. Since I ride Ross Division routes almost exclusively, I ran into both these drivers regularly and liked them both. The woman, in particular, regularly engaged me in conversation about ACTC and cycling, as she used to be one of the regular 11C/13C Perry Hwy drivers.

I do not understand the calls for leniency / sympathy here. Just because you know the drivers, and they weren't speeding very much doesn't change the fact that they were reckless, and put many people's lives in danger with their juvenile horseplay. I am glad they were fired, and hope that they are unable to get any other kind of driving job for the rest of their lives. More likely, thanks to lawyers and union rules, these idiots will be back on the job transporting you and your loved ones into their next drag race.

I'm completely with ericf on this one. I'm not a frequent Port Authority user, and my exposure is limited to my on-street experience with bus drivers when I'm on my bike. My assumption when I see a Port Authority driver is this: Asshole, until proven otherwise. And before you jump all over me, that opinion is entirely driven by my own experiences, and there have been very few "otherwise" experiences. Reading this story when it happened, and again now, I'll stick with my first reaction, which was, "Assholes." Unfortunately the statement about union rules is spot-on as well. I'm curious to see who, besides the bus driver, shows up for the hearing on January 6th. I expect a contingent. I once spent over 140 man-hours preparing for an arbitration hearing for a union employee who I watched bang his knee on a pop machine, limp over to his work station, and collapse on the floor. Filed a workers comp claim, saying he slipped on a grease spot on a catwalk. The union fought so hard for him, and I knew with my own eyes what had happened, yet it took months of time and lots of money before the case was resolved.

If I see a bus in my mirror, I usually head for the sidewalk. I could care less if any of them lose their jobs. For the most part they can kiss my butt. I agree with Ericf and aj

I agree, gg...if I see a bus, i get the heck outta the way.

A lot of PAT bus drivers evidently dislike their jobs intensely - but lack the necessary skills to get another job that pays anywhere near as much as they get from PAT.

@Mick, well, that's actually true of a lot of people. They have invested their time and earned seniority, so it's hard or impossible to switch to a different job and get anything near the same benefits. My guess, because I don't really know, is that PAT bus drivers are evaluated on things that are easy to measure, like arriving at the stops on time, and not on things like how much space they give when they pass cyclists (or courtesy, for that matter). So, naturally, that leads them to pass close. But when PAT starts prosecuting drivers for close passes that changes the incentives a lot. I wonder if PAT is taking advantage of things like this to get rid of older drivers, who earn more, creating space for cheaper, younger drivers. Maybe union rules allow them to fire drivers in these situations.

I've never seen the actual contract language, but you need something like 10 major infractions, or a truly stupendous screw-up like the I-279 incident, to get fired.

I spoke with a bus driver yesterday and she pointed out that the bus that crashed over the hill is a significantly old model (maybe stu can speak to this), like ten/12 years old, which is old for bus standards, but she also said there's five other buses in the garage that are sitting for the same reason that one is alleged to have crashed, which is a broken tie rod Broken tie rod would cause lack of steering control, which would make going over the hill make sense. She had less sympathy for the guy leaving and not calling help

Yes, the 1500-series 35-foot buses, all 60 of them, are scheduled for retirement next year. They replace buses after 12 years because they get too costly to repair, but not because major chassis items break. Tie rods breaking while rolling down a road? I am not the inspecting engineer here, but my money would be on that tie rod snapping while the 15-ton vehicle the tie rod was attached to was rolling down a 100-foot hillside while traveling 60+ mph. I've been to demolition derbies, seen plenty of overturned vehicles in wrecks, and watched crazy people drive their cars on two wheels. Tie rods don't just snap. You can lift a vehicle by its tie rod and not have it snap. It will never steer right again, but it won't snap.

A NYC bus driver was arrested for hitting/killing a pedestrian who was crossing with the right-of-way. The Bus Drivers are flabbergasted that they don't get a pass on hitting/killing people http://gothamist.com/2014/12/24/brooklyn_bus_protest.php I'm a union labor guy, and I really support unions. But there are now two unions in NYC (transit and police) who think that nobody should hold them accountable for killing citizens. It's a statement of how far whack the status quo is.

Warning: OT. It was the first time the law had been used against a bus driver, apparently, and they did back down, eventually. I'm not surprised that they objected to the change. I hope they'll keep enforcing it. The situation with police officers is different. It's like they have their own chain of command, independent from government. Look at how the head of the police officer's union talks about the Mayor of NYC, for example. It's disrespectful. The new police chief here had to persuade (not order) officers here to stop calling our mayor "Pedutohead." And everyone knows about the cozy relationship between the DA and the police that leads to things like no prosecutions for police brutality and killings.

I remember when I was a messenger at the intersection of 6th and smithfield. I was rolling along and a bus was in the bus lane. He starts setting up to turn up 6th ave. I keep going straight. He starts to turn into me.... I look up at him and he just mouths "Fu*k You" to me as he continues to turn into me. Good people. Wish I could be a homicidal high school dropout making 80k a year.

And this is why we have cameras and lawyers. You can't (as a bus driver) pull that crap with impunity anymore. The results may still not be all we want, but the cameras don't lie.

Refreshing the thread. The hearing is tomorrow, Tuesday, January 6th at 8:30 AM in Carrick. If anyone attends, look me up and we'll grab a coffee afterwards.

Any updates, Mr. Booth?

Judge King let the driver off with a warning. I am disgusted beyond words, and have escalated to the CEO of the Port Authority and the Chief of the Port Authority Police. We still have a lot of work to do on the judiciary side. Our "brand new" law that was passed nearly 3 years ago is still causing confusion among our judges...

I guess I am not surprised. Warnings are often given for first time (presumed) traffic infractions not causing injury or physical damage.

Throw enough spaghetti at the wall, and eventually some will stick. The spaghetti isn't done yet. This put the fear of authority into one driver; let's just hope it doesn't happen again. Continue taking names and kicking ass. And rolling video. I sure would like to be a fly on the wall in the break room at the garage, though.

I really haven't noticed bus drivers passing me too close after this happened. But maybe that's just a coincidence.

@aj, sorry I missed meeting up with you especially considering the outcome, but I had a few elderly neighbors to shovel for this morning. I think I'm more pissed at the judge than I am of the bus driver. I'm sure the judge was thinking that a conviction would hurt this guy's job - but isn't that really the point. I'm sure the talk in the bus garage is how easy it was to get off *even with video* more so than what the law is. Maybe showing the video on the 6 o'clock news with an irate anchor doing their "can you believe this judge let this guy off" routine would change the next judge's decision making skills. And add this video to the parkway bus racing incident & I think a good pattern of practice starts to unfold.

We shouldn't underestimate the trouble the driver had to go through to get off. Of course, it would have been better if he'd been fined. But having to appear in court is still a disincentive.

@Jonawebb having to appear in court is still a disincentive. True this. @ajbooth: you are still my hero!

everything you do as a bus driver reflects on the company you work for you are like a moving billboard going down the road. Some drivers never understand that

@ajbooth, I really appreciate your work and your time spent on this, because I think we will all benefit from it. You've moved the mountain. Thank you. Sincerely, VB

@ajbooth, I've taken the liberty of sharing your experience (and video) with several ped/bike professionals and advocates around the State. We all learn from these experiences. As Stu says, the spaghetti will stick to the wall one of these days.