2nd ave from greenfield to hazelwood?

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dwillen
Participant
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I am trying to figure out how to bike to Hazelwood. I typed in where I need to go in google bike directions, and it suggests I take 2nd Ave. (see map here). I’ve biked and drove down 2nd outbound many times, but never seen anyone go straight past the Greenfield turn off as these directions suggest. Is it really possible to bike where google says I can? There seems to be no street view available for that section, and what views I can find it looks to be all fenced off. Should I take 885/Irvine Street? Should I bike up the hill and take Hazelwood down?

Now that I think about it, maybe I should bust out the mountain bike and find the trail down Sylvan?


Lyle
Participant
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I don’t think you can legally get through there. Tell the google people.

If you can bike through there, that’s new. I generally use 2d ave outbound. It isn’t too bad except for just before rush hour and around dusk.

And, of course, during rush hour it’s horribly slow, and none of the road-hog motorists will get out of the way of my faster vehicle or keep to the right like slow-moving vehicles are supposed to. Maybe I should honk and yell.


unixd0rk
Participant
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i’ve definitely taken that stretch a bunch of times… i’d say watch out for people going 70mph, and be especially careful in the section right after greenfield ave that has no berms or sidewalk (or at least this is how it was the last time i was down there)


dwillen
Participant
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You guys mean 2nd ave that is labeled Irvine on the map? The narrowish road on the east side of the train tracks?


John
Participant
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I thought 2nd ave there was all private property.


salty
Participant
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Definitely “report a problem” if you think it’s wrong – people do look at those reports. I’ve never tried to ride down there and I have no idea if it’s possible/legal. BTW, although it’s reluctant to do so, you can force it route a car there as well.

FWIW, since this seems to be the source of confusion above, I always thought the road labeled “Irvine St” was 2nd Ave the whole way, but I could be wrong. I can’t make out the signs on Street View well enough to say for sure. The sign on the corner of Hazelwood appears to say “Second Ave” but that’s also where it changes back to 2nd Ave on the map.


Steven
Participant
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The road on the east side of the train tracks between Greenfield Avenue and Hazelwood Avenue is Irvine Street. Between Greenfield Avenue and Hazelwood Avenue, Second Avenue is the road to the west of the tracks (blocked by fencing in the past). South of Hazelwood Avenue, Irvine Street becomes Second Avenue.

Google Maps has it almost right (apart from the bit south of Minden where they’ve labeled both Irvine and Second as Second).

This is based on the city’s map and PAT’s names for the bus stops, as shown by Google.


Lyle
Participant
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Whaddya know. Ok, I ride Irvine, not 2d avenue. Call it “the main drag”. I used to ride Irvine inbound in the mornings, but I heard a rumor of a serious car/bike incident there and pretty much quit going that way. But I ride Irvine outbound regularly. Used to be five days a week, lately I seem to be rushing home the short way more often, so maybe once a week now. Maybe less. The gent from the restaurant there used to sell his pepperoni rolls at the corner of Hazelwood Ave to the motorists trapped in traffic. He always had a friendly word. I haven’t seen him there in ages, guess ages caught up with him.


Ahlir
Participant
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Ah, a pet peeve. Irvine sucks. It may be ok for you or me but I certainly wouldn’t recommend it to anyone out for a Sunday outing with their family.

The Google map shows a route along 2nd Ave, but as it’s been pointed out this street is barred by a gate. The gate(s) makes sense; it’s an industrial zone and maybe not all that safe for randoms during business hours. Plus it makes sense as general security for tenants in the zone. This situation is not going to change.

On the other hand, the road is in really nice shape; I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that it was paved by the municipality, meaning that the public should have the right to use it. It would certainly make sense to put in a bike-width gate, and perhaps have it open just on week-ends.

Biking-wise this stretch of the Mon is just a dotted line (along the shore) on some planning document. I don’t see anything happening in the next few years, at the very soonest. Why wait? Opening 2nd avenue would immediately make a significant improvement to the local bike path system.

So, actually, has anyone looked into this? Does anyone know where to ask or who to talk to? I’m happy to get it started if someone points me in the right direction.


StuInMcCandless
Participant
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Getting from Jail Trail to used-to-be-2nd-Ave would be a really nice thing, too. Just some simple way of continuing past the porta-john, over the intersection, and a ramp down to the now closed section of Second.


Impala26
Participant
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Here is my ever-changing map for bike trails and such for the area. Now just recently included is Old 2nd Ave through the Hazelwood LTV site and a Glenwood Bridge sidewalk/bike bridge (think Fort Duquesne Bridge) with ramps/switchbacks on either side to connect to the trails on either side of the river, as well as 2nd Ave in Hazelwood.

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=113038755676662691776.000485c71f63c0bf7b791&ll=40.413365,-79.928284&spn=0.054372,0.131493&t=k&z=13

Of course, the big issue with all of these is not the engineering but the property rights and rights of way. There is no reason why Old 2nd Ave could not be used, but the fences and property issues still stand.


Lyle
Participant
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eeyeessss… but.

There’s a pretty busy at-grade railroad crossing up there, which opens another can of worms.


Impala26
Participant
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Lyle, are you talking about the railroad crossing between the scrap yard and the Sandcastle parking lot on the south side of the river?


StuInMcCandless
Participant
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The EFT-to-old-Second ramp I am proposing would not involve a railroad crossing, as the parking lot already extends over the intersection. Assuming the property access, right-of-way and fencing issues are resolved, all they would need is to construct a simple ramp to get you from track level to street level on the now-closed street.

Crossing the tracks to get from EFT to Greenfield Ave is another matter.


Impala26
Participant
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I agree Stu, and I actually included the prospect of the ramp you described on my map.


dwillen
Participant
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Nick, while googling, I found this trail as well: http://www.localhikes.com/Hikes/Hazelwood-Elizabeth_6280.asp

I haven’t checked it out yet, but I’ll probably head up that way this week and see if it exists, and if its bike-able I’ll record a GPS trace for you to add to your map.

Also, you may want to make it clear on your map which of those little paths are accessible and which ones are just pie in the sky right now :)


Impala26
Participant
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dwillen, I’ll be sure to use the colors to indicate different trail aspects. I’ll use something like Green: Existing Official Trail, Yellow: Existing Path or Cautious Trail, Red: Idea for new trail or connection.

My only issue is how extensive to make the map. I think what people don’t realize is how many hidden and minor off-road trails already exist. In some cases those makeshift trails might actually warrant upgrades to more “official” status.


Lyle
Participant
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I’m talking about Hazelwood avenue, just south of Irvine, next to Josza’s Corner.

If you open up 2d Ave, you end up with more traffic crossing the tracks there, and I hope I don’t have to tell you how many people on bikes are killed by trains.

Yes, it takes a particular brand of stupid to ride a bike AROUND a crossing barrier and in front of a train, but people do it. :((

Me, I think it would be great to open up 2d ave to bikes only. Or… bikes and outbound buses.

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