BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I think a lot of the issues around oppression and privilege come from judgments and assumptions (on all sides).

That is a very good topic. I will have to think on this one before I reply.

I will say right now tho that I was talking with my Mom the other day about the biker that was killed on Harts Run Rd. and before I could even say it she mentioned the fact how the news story said about the biker "being on the edge of the road...." and we both said at the same time that by law we as bikers(yes my mom rides) have every right to ride smack dab down the middle of the lane if we want to.

She also said that its a wonder that people(mortorist) do not complain about the fact that we do not have to have a licence, insurance, inspections etc...as cars do so why should we have the right to ride on the road. We both agree that BY LAW we have the right to be on the roads.

Sorry if I went off topic but I just wanted to share.

I think the major reason for not having insurance/ licensing is there are VERY FEW accidents resulting in deaths (or even serious injury or anything but minor property damage) caused by cyclists.

I think the problem with registration is, you can buy a bike just about anywhere (some places under $100), and there is no centralized database of all the bikes out there--no universal identification number system (like VIN).

I think that argument is a poor one anyhow.

I agree that argument is a very poor one, she was just thinking out loud how other people(non-bikers) might think.

Recall that bare minimum auto insurance is for damage you can potentially inflict upon others and their property. Extra insurance is to cover you and your vehicle.

Nearly every bike accident I have been in - about 10 or so...), there was no apparent damage to the car/truck/van that I collided with. Last one was a right hook in Oakland. Ran after the guy hoping to see a nice long scratch along his passenger side, but no. So pissed...

Unless you're pedaling around Pittsburgh with laser cats strapped to your handle bars, I don't see how the insurance is even remotely necessary.

If the context of the query is oppression/privilege of auto v. cycle, I'm not sure I agree those issues are at the bottom of the tension. There are many many threads dedicated to all of the potential sources of the many problems flowing from that.

However, I note a great deal of tension in the cyclist v. cyclist dynamic. The "fixies" v. the "lycras," if you will. I don't know whether that is rooted in sociological issues, or if, as ndromb says, it's more a matter of prejudice.

(I think this is a fantastic topic - thanks for raising it.)

i think any sort of tensions within the cyclist community are pretty superficial, especially since many of the people fall into both camps.

i think questions that this topic was created for are more like:

- as a community are cyclists more or less privileged than the average american

- what can we do to attract a more diverse group of people to the cycling community (diverse in terms of race, gender, sexual orientation, and class)

- why is the cycling community so white

- how do the numbers compare between overall cyclists in the city and those who participate in the community, how do we explain the differences, what can we do to make them disappear.

To start, I'm just going to repost a version of what I put on the Don Parker thread, maybe more applicable here.

On one hand there are teenagers being killed, and killing, in the suburbs, operating vehicles because the structure of their environment provides no options, un-walkable, un-bikable, no public transit. People have fled cities for the mythological safety of suburbs, in complete denial of the actual costs of the choice.

On the other hand there are kids the same age in the city lashing out at people randomly because they feel like they are stuck, they have no future, no options, and no real reason not to.

These incidents are two sides of the same coin, fragmentation of society based on fear, lack of knowledge, lack of humanity. That's one reason I think cycling hold such great potential to break barriers. It takes people out of those isolated metal boxes, re-humanizes people. And it's freaking fun!

In the absence of data, presumption and prejudice reign.

Between the threads identifying all truck or SUV drivers as evil, and this thread presuming that bicycle riders are a homogeneous group, we are making an awful lot of assumptions here.

what assumptions are 'we' making?

Mark, we were posting at the same. Totally on board with your points.

Already apologized for the truck/suv thing.

For the sake of discussion, let's consider "assumptions" rather individual "perceptions", and think about what can be done to pick these apart. Such as "my perception is that many truck drivers are machismo homophobes", not really but just using that example.

another interesting thing that kind of belongs in this thread is the persistent peppering of "fag" or "faggot" from cars...

why does this attack on sexuality seem to be the attack of choice... why doesn't it happen to females? does there just happen to be a strong correlation between homophobia and raging motorists?

FWIW I was driving my parents (mid 70’s) to dinner last night when we approached a guy riding a bike on Penn avenue toward east liberty when my mother said something like ‘oh look there’s a biker’ and then just as fast said ‘oh he’s not a real biker’. When I inquired what she meant she said that he wasn’t wearing a helmet, had no lights and was riding on the sidewalk. In her words it was just a guy riding a bike, not a cyclist. Now my mother hasn’t been on a bike in 50+ years and she probably only mentioned this because I’ve been riding quite a bit the last two years and we had a big conversation about Don Parker’s accident earlier that evening. But how many motorists see us as “cyclist” vs “guy-on-a-bike?” Does it make a difference? I think it does. Guy-on-a-bike is kind of like a j-walking pedestrian, you try not to hit them but if you do it’s really the pedestrians fault. Cyclist is more like the pedestrian crossing at the corner with the walk-sign, if you hit them it’s the drivers fault.

- why is the cycling community so white

Who cares?

I don't get "fag" as much as I get "Lance!"

A few years ago, I used to get "chink!" and "gook!" a lot.

I think I get (negative) things yelled at me a lot less now. Recently, I have received more compliments on my bikes than anything else (blood bike and "bike!" bike)

riding on the sidewalk.

Agreed. Just a guy on a bike.

Why are we so fixated on race? Some people have more pigment than others. Great. Now can we please, as a culture, move on?

Yeah, maybe nobody cares. As a suburban middle aged white guy, somebody tell me it's a non-issue, I'm not in a position to make that call.

From my vantage point out here in the burbs, I see things. I foam at the mouth when my neighbors laugh at all the stupid black people in the city who are on the news, all the dumb little black kids who get shot. And they make fun of my great Indian neighbors next door. I fucking despise it. I try and have that conversation with people, it's just pigment, they're human beings, no different than anyone.

I'd love to move on, to me, it's totally just pigment. But does it sound like our society is ready to move on? From my point of view I still see a lot of work to be done. I just want to make sure that nothing I participate in, especially something I deeply enjoy, in any way supports or continues this abhorrent condition.

@Mark - I'm trying to be constructive. My perception is that there are a lot of generalizations accepted at face value here: truck/suv drivers are evil, car drivers are all bad, lycra wearers are posers.

For someone who is asking for civil debate, your response ('what assumptions are "we" making') reads like a shout-down.

If you only want to hear opinions that agree with your view, I'll gladly stop posting.

ALMKLM, i put we in quotes because when this thread is about lots of different groups of people. i didn't mean to dismiss your comment, i just didn't understand it and i was distracted getting ready to leave. when i say we i'm usually talking about the people in this thread unless i clarify otherwise in the sentence, you obviously had a different 'we' in mind because neither edmonds or I knew what 'we' you were talking about or what assumptions you were talking about. by putting 'we' in quotes i was referring to your 'we' and not mine. your response makes sense but there was no way any of us could have known thats what you were talking about when you said 'we make assumptions'.

as i said before: 'i think any sort of tensions within the cyclist community are pretty superficial, especially since many of the people (on this board) fall into both camps.' and any sort of oppression truck drivers/lycra wearers feel is pretty negligible... but investigating any prejudice, no matter how superficial it is can have its benefits, such as using it as a model to understand oppression and privilege on a larger scale. (Dr. Seuss agrees: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8AEEC621913E6935 )

on the other hand we live in a state with the worst black homicide rate in the country, this kind of oppression (talked about in detail in this PG article: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07178/797356-85.stm ) is something that many of our neighbors/coworkers/friends struggle with every day. I think the answer to the questions "who cares" and "can we move on" are that until everyone cares we can't really move on... but most people don't. race is still a very important issue in our society, especially in pittsburgh. the differences in quality of life between people of color and whites in pittsburgh is both astounding and indisputable.

an interesting part of this is that the under-privileged have more to gain from cycling than those who can afford a car and good insurance and gas but choose not to, but yet in the cycling community that we are a part of we don't see a lot of minorities.

mark, your last point is EXACTLY where i think we as a community can help. we already have the infrastructure either in place or damn close to it, we just need to get the word out to the people that can really use the help. i mean how many of us on this board NEED a free or dirt cheap bike? most of us can afford a few hundred at least for a ride, even if it means saving up for a month or two. we need to figure out a way to help people that NEED better transportation/recreation/career options instead of just serving ourselves.

an interesting part of this is that the under-privileged have more to gain from cycling than those who can afford a car and good insurance and gas but choose not to, but yet in the cycling community that we are a part of we don't see a lot of minorities.

In _our_ cycling community we don't see a lot of minorities. I see lots of minorities riding around on bikes, and I bet a lot of them ride because it's the best/cheapest option. They likely do not, however, care much about bike advocacy, and thus aren't a part of this particular cycling community.

That said, I agree with Colin--we should do our part to spread the word about cycling being a viable option for transportation. That doesn't necessarily mean this particular community would change its racial/ethnic make-up however. Maybe some folks would think "wow, that's awesome--how can I help?" but others might just say thanks, and we simply pass them on the street.

i dont even care if i get a thanks, if some kid starts working on bikes and thats a reason for them not to be doing more destructive things with their life, i'm happy. i'm just sick of seeing how shitty life is for a lot of people in this city, and in MY neighborhood and would like to do what little i can with the things that are MY passions to try and help some of those people.

I just want to make sure everyone who is not presently in, feels like the door is open.

I just want to bring more people to the party (hearing Indigo Girls "Shame on you" in my head right now, love it).

EXACTLY

an interesting part of this is that the under-privileged have more to gain from cycling than those who can afford a car and good insurance and gas but choose not to, but yet in the cycling community that we are a part of we don't see a lot of minorities.

I think that could actually be a part of the explanation to what you're asking about.

Part of privilege is not being marked, not having people look at you and make certain assumptions. Like the assumption that you don't have enough money, maybe in general, or in this context, maybe for a car. It's alot easier to feel like you look like you're doing it because you want to - than to feel like you look like you're doing it because you have to. (lots of "like"'s there, but this really is about the messiness of what people perceive others' perceptions to be, and how that affects what one thinks about one's own life.)

So two issues here, both creating the same problem. One being perceived as not being able to choose a car (maybe because of one's minority status) and the other *actually* not being able to afford one. Think about people here who've reported having been abusively shouted at while riding, with ""get a car" sorts of drivel. It's always hard to experience, but you can brush it off more easily if you either actually have a car or don't have one very clearly (in your own awareness) by choice. If the jerk shouting from his/her car had actually nailed your situation (not that that makes him/her something other than a jerk) it'd be alot harder to get past that kind of thing. That's just an intense scenario for the purpose of illustration, but I think these ideas permeate our culture - they don't only affect us when someone yells something inappropriate from their window. So people may be making choices based on sublte expectations they have of the world around them, and of how it will receive them.

I'll tell you what made me think of this. I play an old rural style of music, and I've gotten really positive responses to it in places like NYC and Portland (ME) - not to say that no one here likes it, but in Western PA I've found lots of people averse to anything that might be related to anything rural. There's this tangible fear of people thinking we're really just West Virginians. I've come across people who place a pretty high priority on distancing themselves from that. (a depressing notion in and of itself, but a different topic.) Travel to where no one's remotely worried about that kind of thing, and they seem more likely to just enjoy the music. (unless they just genuinely don't like the stuff, there is that.) The analog I'm going for is "If you're not worried about what people think your life is, or what your life actually is, it's alot easier to enjoy riding your bike."

I don't think there's an easy solution to that. On an individual level, getting to where you don't care what jerks think of you is a beautiful accomplishment. But on a societal level, changing those big attitudes for everyone else's benefit, that's another mountain to move.

I think the phrase you're looking for is "class anxiety".

bikefind, I agree with all of that. I think the image concern in many circles is way bigger than them not feeling welcome at FreeRide or something. I work in some of these communities and while my message is somewhat helpful, we have the best success when we can identify an ambassador from the community who will basically say what we've been saying, but they have credibility. People need to see a shift in people that they relate to.

I feel like I read about an event recently - or maybe imagined it - that was intended to engage economically disadvantaged kids and interest them in cycling.

If it was just a dream, then I propose BP could partner with a bike shop and the Police to have a Bike Rodeo in a community with free repairs for bikes, safety instruction, perhaps a big-box retailer could donate helmets for distribution. Could have a mass ride through the neighborhood.

There was recently a rodeo in Fox Chapel. Sounds like a good idea for East Liberty.

When does the Performance shop open? I bet they would be on board--what a great way to introduce yourself to the community.

"I see lots of minorities riding around on bikes, and I bet a lot of them ride because it's the best/cheapest option."

That seems to exactly dovetail with one of the missions of BP. Everyday riding. That's why I participate here, and don't bother to mess about with WPW, ACA, etc.

Also, if people who ride and don't drive because they choose to, can connect with and be accepting of people who ride because they have to, I would think it would relieve that anxiety, and help them to actually enjoy and continue the habit.

The idea that there are "real bikers" and other bikers needs to lit on fire, stamped out, and peed on. I think anyone other than someone with an actual disability is a biker or potential biker, like, are there "real walkers" and other walkers? Hikers, I suppose.

"I see lots of minorities riding around on bikes, and I bet a lot of them ride because it's the best/cheapest option.They likely do not, however, care much about bike advocacy, and thus aren't a part of this particular cycling community"

bjanaszek, your comments above are at the very least, a little short sighted.

Have ever spoken with a "minority" cyclist to find out why they ride?

Our Club is made up of large,DIVERSE group of cyclist and are very much advocates in the cycling community.

Our tribute ride last year to acknowledge the bravery of the fallen police officers, showed the media that cyclist are a contributing and caring part of the Pittsburgh community.

So come ride with us and find out more about your fellow coc (cyclist of color)!

Just wanted to clarify for people, since the full name of the group wasn't mentioned in the above post - pghmtcc is the PGH Major Taylor Cycling Club.

Their info is here: http://www.cmh.pitt.edu/cycling.asp

Hey there. Sorry, didn't mean to shortsighted. I merely wanted to point out that there are LOTS of people on bikes, and for many it is simply a good transportation option (or the only transportation option). My point was that some folks ride because they have to, not to promote some greater cause. I didn't mean that these are the ONLY minorities on bikes, or that minorities don't care about bike advocacy. Clearly, this isn't the case.

I've not ridden with the Major Taylor club, but I know folks that do, and I appreciate what the club has achieved (and hopes to achieve).

I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.

Thanks for posting the club info Rachel, I was too focused on replying to the post.

Nice comments bjanaszek, look forward to riding with you!

Anyone who has thrown a leg over a bike and doesn't already know the name Major Taylor should really read about him. It's a tremendous and forgotten slice of American history. And with a Pittsburgh connection.

I have a book I should probably donate to the BikePgh library...

yay for constructive conversation... there is already a mobile bike repair unit courtesy of free ride at some of the east lib farmers market... i think if that idea were expanded upon (maybe once a month it could be something more than just bike repair?) and advertised a little better we might be on the way to starting something really good for the community.

also, a side note: when i say pittsburgh bike community i'm talking about cycling activists basically. i know, for example, that there is a huge "bike community" of somali+neighborhood kids that cruise around lawrenceville, but if you asked most of them what their passion is, i don't think riding a bike would be in their top 5... does that make them not a bike community? i don't really know, but thats not really what i'm referring to.

also i personally think that when someone yells "get a car" at someone who's on a bike but has a car or could afford one but doesn't want to buy one, that person is more offended than someone who can't afford a car... i know i can't afford a car and when people yell 'get a car' at me i'm kinda just like... ya... maybe someday... it doesn't even phase me. some people i ride with are really offended by the idea that people think they can't afford a car though.

also i personally think that when someone yells "get a car" at someone who's on a bike but has a car or could afford one but doesn't want to buy one, that person is more offended than someone who can't afford a car... i know i can't afford a car and when people yell 'get a car' at me i'm kinda just like... ya... maybe someday... it doesn't even phase me. some people i ride with are really offended by the idea that people think they can't afford a car though.

You make a good point. I'm not necessarily proud to admit it, but it bugs the crap out of me when people yell "get a car" at me. Maybe it's because I spend as much of my life around cars as I do bikes and when people say things like that it makes me thing they don't understand anything about either.

also i personally think that when someone yells "get a car" at someone who's on a bike but has a car or could afford one but doesn't want to buy one, that person is more offended than someone who can't afford a car... i know i can't afford a car and when people yell 'get a car' at me i'm kinda just like... ya... maybe someday... it doesn't even phase me. some people i ride with are really offended by the idea that people think they can't afford a car though.

It might have to do with your situation too. If you're a student, or have some other reason to feel that your financial situation is temporary, that could affect a person's state of mind. Or if you've chosen not to spend too much of your life and your energy making money, but instead to spend carefully so that you can life more simply or to spend more of your time in ways that you want to, that could make having scant finances less stressful.

On the other hand, if you're in a situation where you've tried as hard as you can for as long as you can remember to try and make ends meet and put something away for some of the nicer things, or maybe a house/car/etc., or heck, even emergencies, and you just cannot manage to achieve these things that you see people around you with, that can be rough on a person. And if the reason is either something you don't understand or something that you do but realize to be permanent (being disadvantaged from early in life, living with an invisible disability (I say invisible since we're assuming the person in question can ride a bike) etc.,) then I'd expect it to be extra hard to deal with taunts from people telling you to go get those things you can't seem to have.

Of course, I could be wrong. It happened once back in '93.

that a good point bikefind... i would put myself in this category: "Or if you've chosen not to spend too much of your life and your energy making money" but i think if i wanted to make a lot of money and still couldn't after a long time then i probably would be a little more put off by it...

to be perfectly honest though i don't spend a lot of time with anyone in that category, so i've never really dealt with that reaction firsthand

it annoys me because it implies that the choice to ride a bike instead of a car makes you somehow childish or something. like someday, you'll grow up and do the right thing and get a car. it implies that no reasonable person would choose to ride a bike instead of driving.

i do agree, though, that the idea could have a different effect altogether on someone who rides a bike wishing they could afford a car. it's the sort of thing that we don't think about, but likely neither do they.

I don't think it is oppression, but after about half a year of not having racist remarks yelled at me, I was called "Jackie Chan" multiple times tonight.

That's pretty much just stupidity, but oppression is nothing if not enabled by stupidity.

I guarantee that any of these buttnuggets who shout things are only doing it for their friends. And with a little alcohol. If they were walking down the street lone, there would be silence. Refer to "pack mentality" attributed to teenage city kids in the "cyclist attacked" thread. Some people never grow out of that.

It would be pretty funny to be mr. slick out in your gelled hair, Ed Hardy threads, and elf shoes, and have "grow up" yelled at you by a nutjob on a tall bike. Ha!

Pittsburgh is not very good at racial integration.

When I was in LA this summer 75% of kids on fixies

were of latin descent. Have you ever seen a gang

of 15 year old latinas in Pittsburgh on brakeless

fixed gears? It was pretty awesome.

There are a few people here trying to change the

situation. Trips for kids takes kids mountain

biking, Velomuse, is doing something similar, the

MGR foundation is doing a school cycling program

this summer with Pittsburgh Public.

gang of 15 year old latinAS on brakeless fixed gears? Listen, I've been trying to get away from this whole Humbert Humbert label....

I got over the whole envy bit when I realized how many people who appear to have nicer stuff are slaves to it, fearful of losing it, running up debt, cheating on their taxes, etc.

And "get a car" is so cliche that I find it kind of funny.

But Jackie Chan is awesome! That's like somebody shouting "Chuck Norris" at you!

Someone above made an important distinction between the "cyclists" who ride on roadways, want to be treated like cars, "are not blocking traffic/but are traffic" people and the people who predominantly mainly ride on the sidewalk.

While I am in no way trying de-legitimize one group, the groups' motivations for riding are probably different. While we are all just riding bikes and blah blah blah, the different motivations to ride ties into race and privileged.

Someone above pointed out that race is just differences in pigment. While this is true, the social consequences of race are obviously enormous, and shouldn't be ignored.

This has been a good conversation, I usually just lurk around here but thought this thread was interesting.

PS. Has anyone seen the guy with the bike that has front and rear car bumpers with head lights attached?! This is the most awesome thing I've ever seen. A bike shaped like a car, that takes up the whole road. Turning a bike into a car adds a completely different slant on the bike/car relationship. I just about die laughing whenever I see it cruising around.

'Jackie Chan'? seriously? C'mon you stupid racists it's all about BRUCE LEEEEEE!!!!!

PIRATESWS2014: that is bumper bike dude riding his "car bike" or "bumper bike", he has become something of a local superhero.

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/bumper-bike-strikes-again

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bumper-Bike/107270835974493

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GylXgwIw2uM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFuFKFrnCPU (NSFW "colorful" audio)

Lyle, I think the difference lies in how many times you have been called Chuck Norris.

Speaking from experience, being called "Jackie Chan", in that context is definitely not cool..."Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Short Round, Long Duk Dong, etc. etc. etc."

Yay for constructive convo indeed. Thanks for starting the thread, Mark. And +1 for Dr. Suess. Looking forward to watching those vids before bed.

I talked with my roommate tonight to some extent about these things and wanted to inquire as to what her perception is about why the community on here isn’t all that diverse (she is black). We had a couple good laughs about cycling being within pages of a book she has called Stuff White People Like, and shared some more serious considerations as to why this reality might be. I guess we have some theories and hunches, but clearly identifying the why is still mysterious to us. Yet while there may not be a diverse group of “cycling activists” in this community, there certainly is a diverse group of active cyclists in the broader community. One of our many possible wonderings was that a lot of people may either not really know about BikePGH or perhaps in some ways are intimidated by it. I know for myself, I have been riding for a few years, but didn’t know much about BP until I thought to check in on here a couple months ago when looking for some support on my post-accident reentry into cycling. I also was in the beginning both hesitant and intimidated to chime in, because although I ride everywhere, I’m not a cycling buff, own quasi-crappy bike, and ride slowly.

As far as what can be done to cultivate a more diverse group, I think that finding and highlighting possibly overlaps between the communities is key. Forgive the un-biking related example, but an observation I’ve made from the hooping classes my friend and I teach is the example of a particular class we host on the first Tuesday of each month. We split the class to be half hooping and half Zumba (not taught by either of us but by our monthly guest instructor). The Zumba class has a different following, and it makes for a more diverse group (at least racially). The music and form of dance create a natural overlap of interests and the atmosphere is fun and totally non-intimidating for everyone involved. BTW in terms of gender, while there may be a couple regulars, we still lack pretty severely in the male department, so if you ever wanna join us for a spin. Just sayin’...

Hmmm... hooping, say basketball?

Zumba/cycling crossover event? Oofh, I can scarcely imagine anything rougher on the eyes than a bunch of bike nerds trying zumba for the first time (and me personally goes double).

If anyone sees Bumper Bike Guy try to get him to come to the FOC. I'll buy him a $10 t-shirt.

saltm, would your roomie have any interest in trying an FOC? I could loan a bike.

so I just spent the weekend sort of converging several aspects of my life that had been seperate before:

I used my bike exclusively instead of my car as my mode of transportation to/from the events in my life (out to dinner, to a training work shop, to the grocery store, etc).

I also attended a Training for Transition weekend work shop which sort of laid the ground work for a rather positive, ownership-free method of community building and advocacy. At the end of the workshop, an extremely eloquent and passionate gentleman who works at the Kingsley Center (Fred Brown) spoke about community aid, advocacy, and disadvantaged/disenfranchised communities. His words rung so true I'm still trying to digest what they mean and how they can help me move forward. I was also surprised at his perception that we have income to burn - until I realized that no matter how you dice it, he was right (time is money, it was a whole weekend, and thougth some couldn't pay the fee, none of us were paid to be there).

In an inelegant nutshell, he basically warned us - don't go to a community you don't live in with solutions. You may see all kinds of ways you can help - don't do them. Don't write grants for projects. Don't spend 6 months to two years and try to help by setting something up and then "giving control to the community" (and returning to our more comfortable lives). Because that doesn't work, it causes more problems than it helps, and if you don't get a warm reception or lots of community support, it's because they've seen it before and will (usually) just politely wait until you go away.

He said if you are truly called by whatever it is that pulls at your soul to help people improve their situations, do it by asking them questions, following their leaders, and sticking around. He also warned us that providing support in ways like that will change our lives more than it will change anybody else's.

I finished the weekend by taking Lincoln Ave from East Liberty all the way to Penn Hills on my bike. I kept looking around and thinking - I have enough disposable time and income that I can spend money and a weekend on a work shop to learn how to build my community (literally, I intend to take what I learned back to Penn Hills and use it) - when the people who have greater need for help and support structures I'm learning about are in survival mode. They don't have time to attend workshops like that, and everything their lives have taught them is that standing up to truly lead gets you killed (Mr. King et al). They don't have the time to spend exploring all the resources that could guide them towards lower living costs through efficiency - many spend all their time simply trying to live.

And I'm pushing for a bike lane on Saltzburg? The inequity hurts my brain, that I can't figure out how to put all the disposable income and time the well meaning advantaged people have towards real help and change. The inequity hurts my soul and I resist the urge to offer to straighten gutters and weed sidewalks and pick up litter at houses along where I honestly have no business being other than I bike through it to get from A to B. What scares me is that to get from my neighborhood to the different places in my life, these are my bike routes - will I become numb to it? Or will the joy of biking everywhere I go always be tempered with the sadness that there's very little I can do to help ease the vibes of overwhelmedness and exhaustion I see from the people I pass?

I offer no solutions, no ideas, I'm not even sure I'm contributing positively to the real discussion. It's just an experience I had that I thought I'd share.

edited to add: I also saw more cyclists than pedestrians along Lincoln Ave, and more cyclists than I've seen in any other neighborhood, but I also saw more kids outside playing (usually with bikes) than in any other neighborhood I've been in a while.

@ejwme - Wow. That might be the single best post i've read here. Your approach, and Mr. Brown's comments both represent an incredible valuable perspective.

I like to think there is good in all people, and I assume it is in our nature to want to help. But as you relate Mr. Brown's comments, our impulse to reach out may actually be counterproductive.

For myself, I always thought example was the best teacher, so that's what I try and provide my children, my neighbors, etc. Perhaps we as a cycling community are limited in that way as well.

It is heartening to hear of all of the children outdoors at play, and all the kids on bikes you see on your route. Maybe the lesson there, as you said, is there are many active cyclists, just not many cycling activists in that community.

Thank you for relating your observations so thoughtfully. It has really, really added a lot to my view of the situation.

(BTW, as for providing example, if a bike lane on Saltsburg results in more cyclists, then maybe there will be more cyclists passing through, and maybe eventually some of those kids on bikes will become adults on bikes - you never know who your example will influence!)

ej, that's the most stunningly relevant contribution ever.

As I read it, it gave that "which pulls at my soul" an injection of fire. I'm totally clear on not bringing a soulution to a community that I don't live in.

What pulls at me is the desire to reconnect people so I CAN listen and hear peoples needs and desires, from them. We need a common and simple activity that brings us together as humans so there is not they and us. Our society needs to be de-fragmented. I want it selfishly, exactly because it changes and enriches my life. I see and feel the forces that would drive (still, incomprehensibly) segregation, and I despise them. The thought of a world without the contributions of everyone is apalling to me.

So don't downplay your desire for a bike lane, that's no less valid a need. IMO the biggest change to effect is to see everyone as another human being, not disadvantaged victims or incapable children, and treat them as such, and that doesn't cost a dime.

BTW, awesome on your car-free day!

this is all great thinking and reading. what i am getting from this is that the best way for us as a community of cyclists to help those around us is threefold.

a) be a decent person and lead by example

b) work for positive changes where you live, big or small it all matters

c) talk to leaders in communities that we want to reach out to and ASK them what they need, and LISTEN to what they want.

Yeah, it was a pretty heavy weekend - punctuated by staying out of the metal box that so easily shielded me from that route. That's cycling's most precious gift to me so far, perhaps ever. Maybe bringing others to cycling is the best way I can pass it on, perhaps through adding that Saltzburg bike lane (especially since it could lead all the way down to Verona road to link up with those neighborhoods). Thank you guys for the reminder

@edmonds59 - reconnecting people serves all humans the way it serves you, we're wired that way. The drive to tell and hear others' stories is primal, and satisfying it is the most necessary action we have. Without empathy we will perish - it's not selfish, it's vital!

This is really awesome, these ideas about respecting people whose communities we don't live in. There is one thing that's making me uncomfortable though: the idea of leading by example, or example being the best teacher, etc., in this context. As an alternative to telling people what one thinks they should do, I think it's a fantastic improvement. But I think we can go even further in respecting people whose lives we really haven't lived at all.

To lead, or to let our example teach, suggests that we know something that'd be a good thing for them to learn. And I think there are some dangerous presumptions there. I think to truly reach out, we really first have to deeply accept this idea that people are the only experts on their own lives, and on the communities they live in, what they need, what's likely viable, etc. If we want to dedicate some of our lives to that effort, that's really great, but I think we have to be super clear in our own minds: in this situation, *we* have to be the students and *they* have to be the teachers.

I think it's absolutely super that we all ride our bikes as much as we do, however much that is. And sure, if someone saw one or more of us and got the idea that they were going to try to get on a bike when they might not have otherwise, that's fantastic, cause for celebration even. But I think that, especially when considering communities we're not in, especially disadvantaged communities, that the most urgent thing is respect. Respect for the people in them, and respect for the knowledge they have of themselves. So ride your bike, but ride it knowing that you ride it because *you* know that it's a good thing for *you* to do. And that you (we) don't really know if it would be a good thing for anyone else until we get to know that person and their life, letting them teach us these things.

@bikefind -- That is a really good point. I don't know how often I have to try to explain that to people.

It's not the same thing, but when some people find out about my weight loss, they say "Can you talk to my sister/mother/brother/father/friend? I've been trying to get them to lose weight for ages."

Then I have to explain, "no, it doesn't work like that." I had tons of people "reach out" to me when I was heavy... and it did absolutely no good until I was at a point in my life where *I* decided that I needed to shed the pounds.

Now, if the same person had said: "Can you talk to my sister/mother/brother/father/friend? They've been trying to lose weight but can't seem to do it," well, then I'm more than happy to talk... can't help them much, but I can talk.

when i said lead by example i was speaking about leading within our own communities and social groups, and not by saying "look at how great i am" but by simply shutting up about what you are doing and just going out an doing it. ie instead of talking about how everyone should be shoveling out sidewalks in winter for their neighbors who cant do it, you just go SHOVEL SOME SIDEWALKS FOR PEOPLE.

i spent a lot of my younger days involved in radical left wing organizing only to discover as i got older that the best way to affect change was to stop yelling about it all the time and quietly go about living my life and trying to be a decent human being. i know that at the very least i have engaged and affected a lot more people around me this way.

hehe, but cburch you just yelled at us to go shoveling. Some habits die hard. Just teasing.

Thanks cburch - and sorry if I made you feel like I thought you were saying "look at how great i am" - didn't mean to.

no i just realized i hadn't made my point clearly enough. i think your example of just riding because its the right thing for YOU to do, and maybe someone else sees you and goes "hey i can do that too!" is exactly what i was talking about.

this is why i also tried to make the point that we need to ask people what we can do to help (and if they even want help) and then listen to what they say.

myddrin brings in an excellent point, sort of laterally. I've noticed a certain hesititancy from, let's say, "people of size", to jump into the community, maybe because they feel like they don't fit the typical skinny biker 7% body fat formula.

Our society simultaneously offers up an infinite array of unhealthy lifestyle choices, then judges very harshly people who don't fit an idealized body image.

People may choose cycling as a means to lose weight, as myddrin has said, or they may be perfectly happy with themselves and just want to jump on a bike and have fun. That's up to them.

I'd like to make sure that big folks feel like they are heartily welcome to the party as well. While we're throwing preconceptions on the fire, I'd like to throw that one in also. myddrin?

@edmonds59, taking that just a step further, I run into objections to cycling that "people are too fat to ride a bike so we shouldn't spend so much effort on bike lanes because nobody will use them, they'll just stay in their cars."

Hogwash, of course, but people actually tell me this. We need more stories like myddrin's.

Well, I'm hardly an expert but I can give an over view of my experience.

By the time I started cycling, I'd already dropped something like 60 pounds. So I was still something like 110 pounds over weight. I wasn't 'fit' by any stretch, but I was walking anywhere from 3-8 miles a day. Around that time I was looking at things to in order to celebrate my divorce and decided that what I really wanted to do was a multi-day bike tour. Of course, not having ridden a bike in 15 years was a bit of an obstacle to that.

For the most part I've felt very welcomed by the community, the main obstacles I've faced are 1) my own hang ups and 2) comments from non-cyclists.

I think my own hang ups have been the biggest issue, and I think that might be where there is room or outreach. For example, when I bought my first bike the thought of going into a bike shop and dealing with a skinny 7% body fat sales person filled me with dread... so that was out. I did stop by free ride one night, but felt so out of place that I left after maybe 10 minutes. That was totally not the fault of any one at FR. The person I spoke to was great. (Short, dark hair and she looked like somewhere between 12 and early 20's.) It was just too crowded for me at that point in time... whether that was my weight or just some other issue on my part, I'm not sure.

So, I ended up making a bad choice and ordering a cheap MTB from amazon. The bike served me well, but I would have done better with something that weighed less than 47 pounds....

I've spoke to a number of people of size, and there is a lot of interest in starting cycling. The main concerns seem to be 1) are there bikes that will actually support a 300+ (or 400+) pound frame, 2) will people make fun of me and 3) do I really have to wear those clothes?

To address #1 and #3, I have thought off and on that some kind of kind of intro course that went over basic information would be useful. Perhaps working with some of the weight-oriented groups (weight watchers, over-eaters anonymous, etc) would be a good start.

I know I floundered quite a bit about what kind of bike to get and the online information is simply overwhelming. It's far to technical for beginners, IMO. So covering stuff like , how to get started, how to (safely) increase the amount of cycling you're doing, etc.

As for #2, I have to say that only came up a few times... and in those cases it's usually been from teens. I basically learned to just avoid places where teens (esp young teens) would be out without supervision.

I never thought about the negative issues concerning people of size on bikes, especially other's opinions of them. Until now, the only time I ever biked as my major form of transportation I also happened to be severely overweight, by coincidence. In my head the only thought that ever came up was "well, I've got great inertia heading down hill, but I pay for it going uphill, so I guess it's a wash in terms of advantage". But I've got a theoretical physicist for a father who tried to teach me to think of life in terms of simple machines without friction and point-masses (and currently enjoys biking as a 'person of size'). I also biked as a sizeable person geographically surrounded by a culture that valued sizeable people (telling a woman she was "very big" was akin to saying "you're beautiful", they saw me looking at a fashion magazine and asked if I knew all those dying people - they thought it was an NGO brochure asking for aid money for the diseased [they didn't speak/read English]). So I was acutely lucky in that the worst I experienced was receiving well intended complements on my weight that internally made me want to cry, all independent of biking (which they all thought was fantastic, but nobody there had cars - rural village). I don't know how I'd react to people intending on insulting me about something like that.

Sometimes I think unintentional insults/discouragement is worse, because you can't hide your hurt behind anger at the mean person - they're not mean, but it still hurts. Maybe empathy, exposure to different people, and awareness are the only things we can teach each other to help all these problems. In short, building a warm, welcoming community.

(some quotes)

"He said if you are truly called by whatever it is that pulls at your soul to help people improve their situations, do it by asking them questions, following their leaders, and sticking around. He also warned us that providing support in ways like that will change our lives more than it will change anybody else's."

"c) talk to leaders in communities that we want to reach out to and ASK them what they need, and LISTEN to what they want."

yeah, too often we give people what we think we would want ourselves (in any situation... from family birthday presents, to community 'solutions'), because without hellalot of effort (the life-changing kind of effort), the only person we understand is ourselves. I see a lot of people posting above have some awareness of that which is good. I don't have much to compare to, sexism doesn't hold a candle to racism (disclaimer: one white girl's opinion), just seeing an occasional dismissal of a minority's seriously-felt concerns to remind me that just because someone else and I are looking at the same thing, doesn't mean we have any perception of it in common whatsoever.

@ myddrin and ejwme awesome! Much respect to you both. When idiots say/yell things at you it says more about them than you. Yes words still hurt. All we can do is try and turn that hurt into fuel for motivation and keep riding.

If you haven't read it already I highly recommend this book.

Heft on Wheels: A Field Guide to Doing a 180 by Mike Magnuson.

It was hugely (pun intended) influential to me.

Peace

Heft on Wheels: A Field Guide to Doing a 180 by Mike Magnuson

Fun book...I liked it as well.