a vote for rothfus is a vote against cycling

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orionz06
Participant
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Winner!


rice rocket
Participant
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I try to avoid political or contentious threads, but this much is worth stating: Even the strongest foes of gun control would have to recognize one of the law’s recent “successes,” so to speak: preventing Colin Albright’s attacker from buying an AK-47 style rifle. Carry on.

It’s pretty clear that Colin’s attacker wasn’t ready to take a life (thankfully). He was there, he had the tools, he did 90% of the damage, but stopped short. Do you think having a rifle would have changed that?

Also, the fellow in Norway was denied buying an “AK-47 style” as well, and still managed mass murder.

On a side note, I’m not sure why AK-47s are so completely radical in the media when 22LRs are statistically the deadliest, yet the smallest publicly available round.


jonawebb
Participant
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Let’s get rid of <x>, because <x> is not useful, and results in harm.

But harm will still occur if we get rid of <x>!

Yes, but let’s get rid of <x>, because <x> is not useful, and results in harm.

But people can still cause harm even if we get rid of <x>!

Yes, but let’s get rid of <x>, because <x> is not useful, and results in harm.

But <x> doesn’t cause harm in itself, it’s only people using <x> improperly!

… etc. …


Marko82
Participant
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@orionz, I’m a gun owner – but your argument about protection is silly, besides, a shotgun is the weapon of choice for close range combat not an assault riffle. And statistics show that you (or a loved one) are far more likely to die by your own gun than by some “intruder”.

Quite frankly I’m more concerned with hand guns than assault weapons, and I wish the justice system treated illegal possession more harshly. And I have no problem with cars being limited to 75mph, nor my not being able to own a certain type of firearm.

+1 the comment about concern of the militarization of our police


orionz06
Participant
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The attack that occurred was spontaneous, as many are. The device used was what was readily available. The attacker would likely not have passed the FBI background check to purchase a firearm but could have stolen one. Perhaps he was not a hardcore criminal but that is not the real issue. The real issue is that someone chose to flip like that person did. That is what needs to be stopped. The fact that he used a knife just shows that he had a knife, nothing more. How would everyone feel if he was beat to death by someone who practices MMA? Having worked with some MMA guys and being strong for my size I absolutely fear the day that criminals hit the MMA gyms around town. The skill they could learn paired with their violent intent would be something to fear.


Anonymous #

Look! A discussion about politics…..

/runs away


Anonymous #

^haha! Me too. I just like throwing in my two pence from the sidelines.


orionz06
Participant
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I prefer an AR-15 for close range, as does Pgh Police, Pgh Port Authority, and many others. FBI is also using an AR variant. Shotguns have been relegated to breaching tools only.

Statistics show a lot, I won’t dispute your statement, but we also have stats to show that making them illegal does nothing. So while we all agree that we want bad things to stop happening our approach is different. We happen to have two countries worth of data to show that bans do nothing and others show that AR’s in the hands of almost all citizens also does nothing.

It is the same culture that has kids driving drunk while texting that has people killing each other however they can.


HiddenVariable
Participant
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It’s pretty clear that Colin’s attacker wasn’t ready to take a life (thankfully). He was there, he had the tools, he did 90% of the damage, but stopped short. Do you think having a rifle would have changed that?

i don’t think it’s fair to say he “stopped short”. i think he fully intended his victim to die, and thought he had done enough to make that happen.


orionz06
Participant
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I agree. Knife wounds are not nearly as deadly as people believe and the survival rate is quite high. Thankfully he got where he needed to be in time.

And just so everyone knows, I mean nothing ill from my examples and dread any events like this happening again.


HiddenVariable
Participant
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What are the odds? Does it matter what the odds are?

yes. preparing for impossible contingencies is hardly something anyone wants to do. should i walk around with a parachute on my back in case a roc comes and swoops me up, and i happen to get away?

Do the odds need to be greater than they are now for me to have a plan for what if?

this is a tough question, and i don’t know the answer. i don’t know what the odds are, just that they are low enough that *i* don’t need to plan for what if. others may disagree, and i could potentially be convinced that they do so reasonably.

…but we also have stats to show that making them illegal does nothing.

we do? i’d like to see this.


orionz06
Participant
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Home invasions are not impossibilities. Odds are likely that you will do nothing and I will have a plan and we will both never see anything happen. I also like shooting so it works out for me. I assume you do not so it works out for you.

Look at violent crime in Australia and Great Britain and how it has “improved”. Look at our crime and our laws. Look at CA and NY, two of the strictest states in terms of firearms and you won’t find improvements.

Truth be told though most of those buying firearms with the thought of preserving their life are better served going to the gym and buying healthier food.


Mick
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I would like to see some references here – both to Marko69’s contention that guns in the home kill innocent and to the contention that gun control does nothing and that gun ownership is overall protective to innocent people.

I would really like to see some fo these references. I’m not sure the results would fit my preconceptions, but it’s hard toimagine otherwise ;)


rice rocket
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rice rocket
Participant
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http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1099.html#crime

http://tinyurl.com/8fdgn4u

Anyone can obtain a license and a concealed carry permit in the Czech Republic.


Marko82
Participant
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I was already ahead of ya Mick:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.abstract

Edit: I have this discussion very often with friends concidering getting a gun for home protection. I usually try to talk them out of it, especially if they have kids. But if you want one for sport(or even to protect yourself from the gov’ment), buy a safe and keep it locked inside.


StuInMcCandless
Participant
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Can we get back to the candidates’ approaches to transportation policies?


rsprake
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It put a lot of bars out of business and there will be many more to come because of the long list of bar owners not paying it because they have no money. What about all those employees?

Please someone correct me if I am wrong. The drink tax is paid for by the people consuming the drinks, not the people dispensing them. If a bar owner is not paying a drink tax but is collecting it they are stealing.


jonawebb
Participant
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@stu, it appears that you have the most information from your conversation. There’s the ad about the bike lane, and there’s Critz’s votes on transportation (which seem mostly party-line stuff, but he’s in the minority party in the House) and not much else online that I can find.


Greasefoot
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Critz supported funding for bike paths in Rhode Island. The state of RI is only 37 miles wide…I could ride across it in a few hours…I wonder how much federal money was involved.


jonawebb
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I’ve ridden those bike paths, and they’re great.

We got Federal funding here for things like the Hot Metal Bridge bike path (it was an earmark by Santorum — !) And I’ve never looked into it but I assume the GAP was federally funded at least in part.


Mick
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@jonawebb I assume the GAP was federally funded at least in part.

Oddly enough, the section of the GAP through Frostburg (that is, in Maryland) was funded by Pennsylvania. I think it was part of the deal with getting the Big Savage Tunnel rehabbed, which would have been pretty silly if the trail didn’t go through to Cumberland.

After they got the money Maryland dragged theri feet until PA threatened (or maybe did) take them to court.

I was told this by the guy who owns the Trail Inn in Frostburg.


jonawebb
Participant
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Part of the reason I assume that it was partly Federally funded was that it passes through John Murtha’s district, and he was Mr. Earmark. I would really be surprised if he hadn’t gotten some funding in a transportation bill for it. (Which, BTW, is the same district Critz & Rothfus are fighting over now).

Here you go:

“Rick Sebak of WQED-TV, the master of ceremonies for the dedication Friday and an occasional user of the trail, introduced some of those whose efforts were instrumental in establishing the Great Allegheny Passage. In addition to Boxx, they included:

U.S. Rep. John Murtha, D-Johnstown, who helped secure some of the early funding; “

(http://old.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/20010902walsh0902p3.asp)


orionz06
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I wonder why RI got funded. For all we know it was a deal that benefited PA more than RI.


bear250220
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since my son now works for port authority ill be voting for critz i never was a big port authority supporter but now i have to support it


StuInMcCandless
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I’m trying to recall the details of that conversation. Rothfus was running against Altmire in 2010. It was early September, just after Labor Day. McCandless has a town festival the weekend after. Rothfus and his whole family were marching in the little parade, and I was standing toward the end. He was talking with people along the street. The parade came to a halt, and he was within 15 feet of me. After he exchanged some preliminary hellos with others close by, I got him talking about transportation policy. The essence of it was he was toeing the GOP line of let transit agencies fund everything through fares; not the state’s problem; everyone needed to take a pay cut. I don’t think he got as far as to talk about unions, but he was clearly not interested in any sort of progressive thinking when it came to making sure transit actually worked, that it had any sort of benefit other than as a form of public assistance, rather than as a public service. I also talked with his wife, who recently transplanted from Texas, where they apparently don’t have any sort of transit outside of large cities.

It all had the effect of reaffirming in my mind that the entire GOP had a set of talking points for any candidate for any office, and that those were the answers to give on transit. We didn’t discuss cycling, but I suspect you’re not going to get much fresh thinking on that topic, either.


Anonymous #

“How do you suggest one responds to a violent intruder in their home?”

It is kind of like asking how do you react to a lightning strike? I mean how many home break ins are there? None in my area. If someone broke in, I would say, take what you want and would you like some ice cream. I mean, goodness if they break in what are the chances you will have a gun in your hand? Do you think you will have time to get to your gun, take the safety off, aim and fire if someone breaks in? Probably not, but it is fun to think you are Rambo.


boostuv
Participant
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Considering that over 50% of gun deaths are related to suicide I think money spent instituting an AWB for the sake of saving lives would be better spent on suicide education and prevention.


erok
Keymaster
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I try to avoid political or contentious threads, but this much is worth stating: Even the strongest foes of gun control would have to recognize one of the law’s recent “successes,” so to speak: preventing Colin Albright’s attacker from buying an AK-47 style rifle. Carry on.

Can anyone site that he wasn’t able to purchase one? I got the impression that he did end up with the AK (“lied when purchasing an AK-47” according to trib implying that he bought it), but it came out later that he lied on his purchasing form. The news sources i saw said was that he was being charged for lying on his app by saying that he didn’t smoke weed, but he later admitted that he does.

How the Trib worded it:

The same day as the stabbing, court records show, District Judge Thomas Torkowsky arraigned Scholl on charges that he lied when purchasing an AK-47 in July. Torkowsky released him on $10,000 unsecured bond, according to court records.

Scholl stated on his purchasing form that he didn’t use marijuana, but admitted later that he was a regular user and that he owned a sawed-off shotgun, which is illegal, police said.

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/2839704-74/scholl-police-west-arrested-homestead-jail-pittsburgh-albright-stabbing-steps#axzz2AtMPH8ow


Jacob McCrea
Participant
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It looks like I was incorrect, based on the Trib’s wording. Here is how the PG described it on October 26, which gave me the impression that he was actually prevented from acquiring the rifle:

“State police arrested Mr. Scholl on Sept. 5 on charges that he lied about a 10-year history of smoking marijuana when he filled out a form to buy an AK-47 rifle from a sporting goods store and used a file to scratch off the serial number from a shot gun. He was arraigned shortly after 11 a.m. that day and posted bail.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/arrest-made-in-bicyclist-attack-on-south-side-659263/#ixzz2AtWYdiqX

In any case, I sure am glad this guy is off the streets.


jonawebb
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You know, if people are going to lie on those forms, it defeats the whole purpose.


rice rocket
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People can lie on forms? Who knew.


StuInMcCandless
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You can do anything you want until you get caught at it.


erok
Keymaster
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smoking marijuana might make one less likely to use this in a state of anger or rage, just saying.


Anonymous #

@gg yes, I would have enough time to get gun and shot them. With a little practice (100 amos per month) you start shooting with both open eyes and aiming right away. Break in is not a 0 seconds act. I have a gun at home. My daughter was on our school rifle team, my wife used to be on a rifle team back in Russia. So next gun is going to be a decent rifle and some scopes.


jonawebb
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The situation with a home break-in is a little different from what you appear to be expecting. You do not know what is going on, while the criminal knows exactly what is happening. The noise you heard might be nothing, or some neighbor kid playing a joke, or a stranger who is just mixed up or maybe mentally ill, who means you no harm. So you’re standing there with a gun, hopefully trying to figure this out, while the criminal who is maybe armed himself knows exactly what he is doing. I don’t think having an AR-15 versus any other gun gives you much of an advantage.


Anonymous #

@jonawebb It does not matter what you think. It matters what I think. :) And I think differently. I don’t go and check without a weapon. And I don’t expose myself. So intruder has no idea where I am and what I have. and having AR gives me a lot of advantage. Like I told a little bit of training and you would think and act differently. More training and you would do it subconsciously. Like riding a bike. But training is a must.


Ahlir
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[Is this the Bike Pittsburgh Message Board? I’m finding this thread hard to follow.]

Well, I did understand this much: “Don’t vote for Rothfus, he’s anti-transit and anti-biker”.

An elected official who has the good sense to support bike-friendly expenditures (wherever they might land) seems a great deal more valuable to us and to society than one who’s determined to (further) trash transit. Get a clue.

As for the rest of the discussion, may I add:

I’m gonna bang, bang you – I’ll shoot you down with my love gun, baby

Bang, bang you

CHILD, DESMOND / STANLEY, PAUL — © Universal Music Publishing Group, EMI Music Publishing.

Also, “Lenny” needs to relax.


Lenny
Participant
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Ahir…..Just the opposite when it comes to a bike friendly advocate in our area.Rothfus wants money to stay here in Western Pa. to fund bike safety and bike trails!! Critz wants funded money for biking to go to other areas like Rhode Island.As far as guns are concearned,I agree with you. Guns have nothing to do with biking!! I’m neither a member of the Republican or Democrat Party,but I’m voting Rothfus because he’s better for when it comes to biking in Western Pa. Rothfus and all his family members are big users of our area bike trails.


buffalo buffalo
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Not for the first time, I’m extremely glad to live in Mike Doyle’s district.

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