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big hole on the "northeast passage"

I've been meaning to post about this, the "northeast passage" that you can use to cut through by Reizenstein developed a gigantic gaping hole - it's at least a couple feet wide and deep. They put up some cones but if you're riding through there, especially at night, be careful, falling in would definitely ruin your whole day. It's on the west side of the road, which kind of sucks because there's an old longitudinal grate on the east side.


Is calling 311 a good idea or a bad idea? I'm worried that they might decide to officially "close" the road. But, it would be nice to get it fixed. I'd be happy if they just filled the pit with gravel, but it looks like it might be part of a drainage system.


salty
2010-11-16 01:57:14

Oh, I'm glad you posted this, salty. I noticed it a couple of days ago & forgot about it. I think it would be good to report it to 311. I doubt they'll close the road: I think the school and the military complex both use it & I see joggers & pedestrians pass through a fair amount.


pseudacris
2010-11-16 02:59:47

Well, I'm still unclear on what the legal status of that part of it is. It's the southernmost part - i.e. the brick road that's completely overgrown, not the paved part. So hopefully no cars/trucks are using that part - or maybe that's what caused the collapse?


BTW, I'm pretty sure it keeps getting bigger - I'd keep a few feet away from it at least.


salty
2010-11-16 03:16:11

Went by there today. Glad there's cones.

By the looks of it, it's a break in a water line.

I would also assume that the cones mean that the relevant parties (ie, PWSA) are already on the case.


ahlir
2010-11-16 05:53:58

It is getting bigger. I moved the cones to reflect the bigger hole the other day.


rsprake
2010-11-16 14:34:59



salty
2010-11-16 16:15:18

Where is this?


alnilam
2010-11-16 16:34:33

HEADS UP:

The great northeast passage is currently the great northeast PUDDLE.


If you ride through there in the dark, be advised to bring a strong headlight that might show the potholes through the 1-3" of standing water. The already narrow and muddy banks of the puddle may not be an option if the rain continues...


pseudacris
2010-11-30 20:47:15

same for the back passage from fed ex to 20th street in the strip. its all fine except for the 75 feet of railroad access road. that's a water filled death trap right now. on the plus side, my bike handling skills are surprisingly good even while holding a bag of chicken latina quesadillas in one hand.


cburch
2010-11-30 21:31:45

on the plus side, my bike handling skills are surprisingly good even while holding a bag of chicken latina quesadillas in one hand.


That sounds like a good idea for a new kind of bike competition.


greenbike
2010-12-01 00:25:21

There's another way through the great northeast passage. Going east to west, head down the brick road and turn right (northwest) about where the brick ends, into the parking lot. Pass the big school building on your right, and just as it ends, you'll see a fence on your left with a gate in it. The gate leads to the corner of Marchand and Rennig Streets.


I don't know what hours the gate is unlocked, as I've only been through once (during the day). But it might be worth checking out if it cuts out the dicier portion of the passage.


steven
2010-12-01 02:18:44

Steven - when that school was a school (what is it now?), that gate was permanently locked. We used to have to climb it to avoid the PPS cops... I mean they used to climb it. The bad children, not me. I was in class, learning.


ejwme
2010-12-01 14:51:27

oh - a quick email or phone call to the owner or manager of Bakery Square pointing out that the safest way for the people with money in shadyside to get to his/her establishment to spend it is treacherous. Might get things moving as well as 311.


ejwme
2010-12-01 15:24:42

Or perhaps their tenants' employees might be more effective.


lyle
2010-12-01 15:48:14

ok, i sent a 311 and will encourage my co-workers to do the same...


salty
2010-12-01 16:56:27

whoa, I never knew about this road-ish passage... I will have to investigate...


gimppac
2010-12-01 17:27:07

News Flash: it may get fixed ~ February.


:::::::::::::


This is to inform you that the City of Pittsburgh has completed and closed your Service Request.

The Service Request Identification-Number is: 214197


Summary of action taken:

Per DPW Transportation/Engineering:

We will conduct a field investigation. Please allow 6-8 weeks for a determination.


Summary of Service-Request:

At the end of Putnam St, just before it dead ends into Social Way, it is very dark and not well lit. Please consider installing a street lgiht.


::::::::::


Last night I was able to pass from the end of Marchand, through an opening in the brick wall into the drop-off zone on the NW side of the school building.


When you pass though the wall, you're on a sidewalk, but there's a curb cut a few yards to the right.


Watch out for cars and for bored kids just getting out of detention. This parking lot drops you right onto the new bike path that runs parallel with Penn.


pseudacris
2010-12-01 18:11:25

Looks like the Reizenstein building is a working school at the moment. It's called Pittsburgh Obama 6-12, with an International Baccalaureate program.


Next fall, Pittsburgh Peabody is set to close, and Pittsburgh Obama might then move into its old space. I don't know what they'll do with the Reizenstein building after that.


steven
2010-12-02 07:32:40

Reizenstein is an awesome building, but horrid for a school. It was designed in the 70s when "open class rooms" were en vogue. So almost all the classroom walls are temporary folding walls, thin and plastic (installed after a semester of hell, or so I heard). In the "cafetorium" there are these huge ramps up to the second floor, I think the brick is green. Huge indoor pool. Gym is 3 stories high. Phenomenal building. Could be turned into the most awesome community building ever.


I hope they get to that before February, it sounds more like rounding tierra del fuego than cutting through panama canal.


ejwme
2010-12-02 15:33:35

"I don't know what they'll do with the Reizenstein building after that."

Somebody call Ray's in Cleve, we need one here.


edmonds59
2010-12-02 15:53:34

he wont do it. too close. plus he isnt in charge of that anymore. trek picks the locations, he just designs what goes in them.


someone here needs to step up and do it.


cburch
2010-12-02 16:05:40

cburch, edmonds, link or explination for those of us who are oblivious but curious?


ejwme
2010-12-02 16:33:01

Ray's indoor mtn bike, Cleveland




edmonds59
2010-12-02 16:49:33

in the infamous words of keanu reeves:


*whoah*


ejwme
2010-12-02 17:01:46

its even better now.


cburch
2010-12-02 18:33:47

The sinkhole near the old Reizenstein building is still there. I'm a reporter in town working on a short audio story about this connector near Putnam Street (given the nickname 'the great northeast passage'?) Any and all insight on this little strip of land would be helpful!


2012-08-14 15:06:29

What would you like to know? After falling, Paul Heckbert and I contacted the city using their 311 line to have them clean up the road by filling in the pot holes and sweep up the gravel. The city said it's not their responsibility so I contacted Councilman William Peduto's office and through some investigation they found out that it was in fact their responsibility. I am not sure who filled the pot holes but they have been filled but the gravel remains.


The sink hole still exists.


I don't think the city cares because the school is now closed and that property is being redeveloped very soon. The developer plans on constructing a path or bike lane which will finally make this connection real and not so much of a hack.


rsprake
2012-08-14 15:16:21

Did this all take place last year?


2012-08-14 15:31:52

The maintenance took place spring / early summer.


rsprake
2012-08-14 15:33:32

developer... what are they developing it into? An awesome indoor park like pictured above? Or Bakery Square 2?


ejwme
2012-08-14 15:47:47

Bakery Square 2.0


from what I hear it's primarily going to be housing. what's up for debate now is whether to create a gated community such that you would have a long walk or have to drive if you wanted to cross the street to get to the stores on the other side OR to create an accessible grid. I understand the shadyside community group is strongly leaning towards the gated community design vs. integrated street network.


tabby
2012-08-14 15:52:22

Gated community would really stink here for cyclists.

It's an important link between Reynolds/Beechview and points north/west. I really don't want to be dumped onto Penn or Fifth.


pseudacris
2012-08-14 15:56:29

From what I understand the developer wants an open grid plan with no through motorized through traffic to Shadyside. They want to keep the bike and pedestrian connection open as it is now.


rsprake
2012-08-14 16:01:22

Is Walnut Capital the developer?


pseudacris
2012-08-14 16:03:04

Bakery Square 2.0.


Bakery Square 2.0 will exceed current best practices in architecture, landscape architecture and urban design, which emphasize green and sustainable standards of design and construction. Within 1500’ of East Liberty's bus station, and numerous bus routes on Penn Avenue, it is a transit-oriented development that will be designed to the standards of LEED for Neighborhood Development. A traditional grid of streets and blocks will extend pathways for cars, pedestrians, and cyclists, anchoring Bakery Square to the surrounding network of urban neighborhoods.


rsprake
2012-08-14 16:07:51

yeah, I hope it will be developed with really good connectivity. I heard that there were community meetings with a lot of "we don't want them parking on our streets over here" kind of stuff and a lot of support for it being like that development with the gate around it that's across from the Village at EastSide Plaza.


tabby
2012-08-14 16:11:08

I don't know what a gate does other than keep people out. They are going after LEED certification and while I don't know for sure, putting up a gate around your neighborhood is probably not going to get you that certification.


rsprake
2012-08-14 16:13:54

I believe LEED does indicate bike racks!


pseudacris
2012-08-14 16:15:32

Uggh, the words "gated community" make me want to find a black market rocket launcher. Few other things generate that response.


edmonds59
2012-08-14 16:19:35



US/Mexico border.


pseudacris
2012-08-14 16:25:32

"the village of shadyside" has been there and

has been a gated community for well over

a decade. nothing new.


steevo
2012-08-14 17:27:25

hunh. parking issues are solved by permit parking only. They have those signs all over the city (2hours max unless permit K displayed or whatever). Make it 24hrs, let tow trucks operate there, solved.


Or, have private garage only parking, no on street parking. No door zone for bikes. No pesky issues. This would only work if people could manage to have an equal or smaller number of cars as they have garages.


But perhaps if they want to only have themselves and their neighbors park on their street and walk through their neighborhood, they should move out to the suburbs where nobody wants to go unless they live there.


ejwme
2012-08-14 17:47:17

i think it makes sense to want to keep automobile through traffic to penn or fifth. but it would be a damned shame if they do what village of shadyside has done. you can't even walk through there. it's a disgrace.


hiddenvariable
2012-08-14 18:06:43

I wonder if the Village will attempt to reconfigure the "gated community" in the near future, given all the development the residents can't really access that's just across the street?


bjanaszek
2012-08-14 18:44:21

Depends on how many points for LEED you are going for. Bike racks are worth points as are showering facilities.


lou-m
2012-08-14 18:45:59

From the google machine:


"Across from the Bakery Square development, Walnut Capital Partners says they are prepared to spend up to $130 million on their latest project, known as Bakery Square 2.0. A redevelopment of the former Reizenstein Middle School site, the plan calls for constructing several new office buildings, creating 400,000 square-feet of office space, 90 rental townhomes, and 20 single family houses. Details of the plan were released last week at a public meeting in Bakery Square.


The developer is seeking a zoning change for the site in order to execute the proposed plan, which Gregg Perelman, of Walnut Capital, says is a work in progress. According to Perelman, his company is meeting with neighborhood organizations, such as the Shadyside Action Coalition, to find solutions to the zoning issues.


The plan does not call for any new roads to connect the former school site to Shadyside, however a bicycle and pedestrian connection would be built. Office tenants would utilize the parking structure located in Bakery Square, across Penn Avenue.


Perelman says the streetscape along Penn Avenue would include sidewalks, and the possibility of added bike lanes. Within the development, Walnut Capital plans extensive green space and courtyards to be used by future residents and office workers, similar to the developer’s Forbes Terrace property in Squirrel Hill.


The townhome rentals are projected to range in price from $2,500 to $3,000, and will be two- to three-bedroom units.


Walnut Capital expects to purchase the property from Pittsburgh Public Schools by the year’s end, when it will then begin demolition. Building materials from the former school will be recycled on site, used for infill and road improvements. "


(from an article dated 23 May 2012: http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/bakerysquare052312.aspx)


atleastmykidsloveme
2012-08-14 18:52:41

The townhome rentals are projected to range in price from $2,500 to $3,000, and will be two- to three-bedroom units.. Wow! I have a full time University gig, and I could definitely not afford to live there.


Still, thanks for posting this text. I feel encouraged about the promised green space & bike/ped friendliness & re-use of building materials.


[edit] I hope the school district fetches a good price for this: they need the money and even the union salaries of the teachers would not let them afford a place like this unless it were a double income family whose kids were in public school.


pseudacris
2012-08-14 18:57:21

wow, it really is called "Bakery Square 2.0" I guess it's gone from geek speak to mainstream. Am I that old?


And I'm super sad that they're demo-ing Reizenstein. The pool alone was AWESOME. It really was an insanely cool building.


Sigh. 2.5k is WAY outside my price range. Is that steep, or am I just that cheap?


ejwme
2012-08-14 18:58:46

I work in Bakery Square. If anyone is interested, there is a usually computer rendering of 2.0 in the lobby. Come on it and see it. In a bit, I'll try and grab a picture of it.


2012-08-14 19:11:17

We rented a third floor loft in lawrenceville several years ago. I don't think we will ever live in a place as nice, but $1000/mo was too steep. $2500 is just ludicrous. Imagine all of the bikes you couldn't buy if you were paying that much...


stefb
2012-08-14 19:30:20

I wonder if the Village will attempt to reconfigure the "gated community" in the near future, given all the development the residents can't really access that's just across the street?


there's a locked gate that leads into the reizenstein parking lot. it would surprise me if residents didn't have a key to this.


hiddenvariable
2012-08-14 19:46:43

Way back when I was going to school, my college roomies and I rented a Semple St. apartment for $350 a month plus utilities.


I'm old.


kordite
2012-08-14 19:48:47

@ brian j I wonder if the Village will attempt to reconfigure the "gated community" in the near future, given all the development the residents can't really access that's just across the street?


Doubtful.


1) It's isn't that much harder to driver an SUV around a few blocks that it is to drive an SUV across the street.


2) There are "all kinds of people" over there.


mick
2012-08-14 21:46:17

Dude. $2500 a month? For rent? What?


I realize the location is ideal, it's truly a spot where you could very much ditch owning a car, given all the amenities within walking distance, but...$2500? What?


And to think, way back when I rented a loft in the old Park Place school, I thought $800 a month was the lap of luxury.


bjanaszek
2012-08-15 00:06:41

This discussion reminds of a "gated" community I lived in when I worked in Austin (out by the Arboretum). It had an impressive wall with gates out front and along the highway side, and somewhat less imposing fencing along the other side. The back however had no fence and just spilled into some nice woods with trails that you could bike. I never did get it at the time, but...


It does make sense for the "village" to have a wall along Penn; it's a busy, loud street (even if it does now have nicer stuff on the other side). Won't office buildings along Penn serve the same function and make walls less necessary?


ahlir
2012-08-15 00:57:12

Found mention of this meeting on the Shadyside Action Coalition web site. (also a broken link to a UPMC Shadyside 10 year master plan):


Bakery Square 2.0 Community Meeting

Monday, August 20, 2012, 6:30 PM


Location: Ellis School Auditorium, 6425 Fifth Avenue. Walnut Capital will be in attendance to discuss the new plan for zoning changes and development of the site and to take questions from the community.


pseudacris
2012-08-15 03:12:06

Well, I asked Peduto's office about running a sweeper through there and it looks like they decided to do that this morning and due to the rain last night and the lack of drainage it tracked mud all over the road.


Attempt at sweeping


Attempt at sweeping


Attempt at sweeping


rsprake
2012-08-15 14:45:11

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, eh?


bjanaszek
2012-08-15 15:21:38

I really hope they keep the connection between Reynolds St. & Social Way. I don't think having cyclists dumping out on the Penn Ave sidewalk infront of Villages at East Side is viable. That sidewalk doesn't really connect to anything. Especially if you're trying to safely get to Shadyside or East Liberty.


roadkillen
2012-08-15 16:44:59

So I went to the Bakery Square 2.0 public meeting tonight. Stayed for the first 2 hours. Definitely look for more public meetings coming up and attend if you want a voice or have questions!


Walnut Capital is planning public Bike & Ped access that will keep a good connection between the Bakery Square "campus" on both sides of Penn Ave though to Mellon Park Rec area. They didn't seem to know where Social Way is and the housing on that side of the development would probably be subdivided and built by someone else, so it will be good to speak up about your needs at the public hearings. It is a big deal (in a good way) that a high percentage of Bakery Square employees do not drive to work. The development, as planned, will have impact on the bike/ped path in front of the current school property. Putnam and an East Liberty Blvd extension will be "like 'real' city streets" with a new street connecting them that would run parallel with Penn for the length of the development.


Separate from this development, there are upgrades coming to the East Liberty busway stop & a better crosswalk on [edit] Fifth Ave for people using the Mellon Park Rec area (not sure where on 5th).


In the current development plan, the existing garage would service the new commercial spaces. Not much non-residential parking would be added to the site. The townhouses will have off-street parking.


edit: I think it will be important to speak up if you want to get to Shadyside (eg Social Way etc) or points West on Penn Ave without it being a P.I.T.A. It did seem like good connections would be kept between Mellon Park and Bakery Square.


pseudacris
2012-08-21 02:14:48

Thanks for the update.


rsprake
2012-08-21 02:57:56

Crap, I completely spaced on this and I rode right by as the meeting (and the rain) were starting. I heard there were a lot of NIMBY types from "Village of Shadyside" there.


I've still never seen a really clear picture of the proposed street grid, did they present one at the meeting? I was hoping for bike/ped connections both at Festival and on the Denniston side. It's actually something like 1/3mi extra to go around - not a huge amount but it's probably 5 minutes if I'm walking to work.


salty
2012-08-21 03:19:12

The street grid was a bit unclear [eg the minor streets & alleys were not labeled] - partly because they are focused on changing zoning right now. I asked about Social Way and the developer did not know where that was (not a good sign!).


I think if enough people demand bike/ped access between the Mellon Park recreation area and the neighborhood west of the Ellis School (approx where Howe St. starts: http://goo.gl/maps/MYeXh), then is can happen. No one seemed opposed to bike/ped access & the developers seem to want it, but there are a lot of opportunities for this to fall through the cracks.


Among other reasons, new housing NE of Rennig St & Social Way will be subdivided and built by a different developer. By the time that happens, WHO KNOWS what the relationships will be. I am guessing it will be necessary to build and maintain good relationships between now and 2014 to help see this through in the way many of us would like.


There were Village of Shadyside people at the meeting -- I was there for the first 2 hours so may have missed some comments. They seemed concerned about keeping vehicular traffic out, having adequate parking, and the overall impact on their property values. I did not hear anyone wanting to keep bikes or peds out. The high % of people in your complex who walk/bike/bus to work is a major selling point, asset & justification for not having big lots in the new development. Keep it up :-) !


[edit] they said some grant money will go towards repaving the nameless back alleys and making them more ped friendly


pseudacris
2012-08-21 13:16:36

BikePGH is going to meet with the developer, so hopefully they'll share their insights soon. Fingers crossed for the best: it could be a great connector.


pseudacris
2012-08-21 13:23:19

I would think that their property values would rise, not decline. Unless the open street grid would devalue the gated community. I will have to make it a priority to make it to one of these meetings.


rsprake
2012-08-21 15:18:32

I suspect that anyone who lives in that little nook of Shadyside might be concerned if there was a auto-connector from the new development to Shadyside proper. I see one of the perks of that sector (not the Village, but the surrounding streets) being there is little through traffic on those streets, and thus it's very quiet.


I would suspect, however, that residents would appreciate a proper ped/bike bike connector.


bjanaszek
2012-08-21 15:49:48

Our facilities manager (who is also a cyclist) meets with the Walnut Capital people regularly, and I know them a little myself - they're here a lot. Obviously my employer has some pull, as well as accounting for a fair amount of the BkSq employees that don't drive. I know a lot of coworkers either go through the passage or the gate by the school when it's open, which seems to be never now that the school is closed? I have never gone through there because of the "no dogs on school property" signs, and when I walk it's almost always because I have my dog with me. Anyways, I'll step up my efforts to talk to them about it.


I don't think anyone really wants an auto connector through there - it would be a nightmare.


salty
2012-08-21 16:04:44

Salty - can you give me a ring? 412-315-0262. I saw that you reported the sinkhole this area about a year ago to 311, and hoped we can chat. PM doesn't seem to go through to your account. -Emily DeMarco, PublicSource.org


2012-08-21 16:38:22

I've only skimmed through this but it has some better diagrams than I'd seen before.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4eIrqvktmelbzFMaUVKWFhJZGM/view#


There's a sentence about an "open, welcoming, and universally accessible" pedestrian connection between Penn and Marchand/Denniston but I didn't see anything about the Social/Festival side. I did have a talk with our facilities manager about this yesterday.


salty
2012-08-22 17:00:14

Ah, it's confusing though because the diagram on p.4 shows the bike/ped connection roughly where the NE passage is now, and nothing near Denniston.


salty
2012-08-22 17:04:39

THE GIANT HOLE IS NOW FULL OF DIRT!

Is it weird to kind of miss it?


pseudacris
2012-09-23 01:07:35

Well, the sinkhole has been filled (since at least a few weeks ago).

But there's no evidence that the underlying problem (so to speak) has been addressed.

There's a water main / sewer line breach under that spot that needs to be dealt with.

If it isn't, the hole will reappear in due time.

Maybe the BS 2.0 development will cause a fix to happen...


In the meanwhile it would be prudent to avoid using that stretch if you sense the ground getting soft...


Besides, isn't this a job for Bob? He did discover the NE passage. Right?


ahlir
2012-09-24 01:14:29

Rsprake,

I'm guessing 'concern over property values' covers a lot of concerns in 'The Village'. Long time Shadysiders bring that up for every change (it was a major roadblock for the pedestrian bridge).


I'm sure that somehow it's possible that their home values could go down, but nothing that's happened in the last 15 or so years has managed to do that.


BS 2.0 is much more likely to boost their home values and thus their tax assessment. Right now, a 3 bedroom in The Village is listed at nearly 420K -- I'm guessing it's assessed at considerably less. More development is likely to change that. And paying taxes on what a property is really worth vs. what it was perceived to be worth in the grungy 90s could really crimp the style of the residents. And that makes em grumpy.


justray
2012-09-25 15:01:11

That was way off topic. Sorry about that.


Closer to the matter at hand, Like Ahlir I'm hoping that a full-time population increase in that corner might just spur the sewer improvement needed.


justray
2012-09-25 15:03:50

@justray -- I'm not sure how old the Village is, but to be fair, the first big Urban Redevelopment of East Liberty (resulting in Penn Circle and the now-gone high rises) was a disaster not forgotten by people of many income levels impacted by it.


[edit] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Liberty_(Pittsburgh)#Decline


pseudacris
2012-09-25 15:25:07

Pseudacris, no one will argue that Penn Circle was a disaster. It was hatched out of a love of non-human scale planning (and car-centric assumptions) that, with luck, will be swept away. Every tiny move that's been made since then to de-circle Penn Ave has been a huge improvement.


(and (purely for trivial curiosity) looking at some of properties for sale in the Village, construction dates range from 1984 to 1995.)


justray
2012-09-25 16:55:54

There were a lot of lessons learned from that era of design and I think they are taken into account with the new development.


rsprake
2012-09-25 17:15:02

Hopefully that will remain the case, at least regarding public access to multi-modal transportation options.


pseudacris
2012-09-25 17:23:21

re: "There were a lot of lessons learned from that era of design and I think they are taken into account..." I think the vast majority of Penn Dot is still working from the old book. To be fair there are individuals working from within, but it is painstaking slow.


edmonds59
2012-09-25 18:07:41

Bakery Square 2.0 isn't PennDOT.


rsprake
2012-09-25 18:22:13

Destruction of East Liberty v1.0 wasn't PennDOT either, it was the URA.


All of the new development is still way too car-centric. It may be better than what they did in the 60's but it's far from great.


salty
2012-09-25 19:38:11

Very interesting! So if Ellis is replacing the damaged sewer in 2013,I wonder if they'll close down the Passage?


2012-09-29 23:56:31

Hope not. At the end of the article, their marketing director says they hope to work with Walnut Capital to keep it bike/ped friendly.


pseudacris
2012-09-30 00:07:49

Thanks for sharing the article -- feedback is welcome! After doing the research for this story (and seeing the sinkhole filled in within a few hours of interviewing the DPW) I learned that most of the parties involved in that area plan to keep that path open. But, it's important to keep in mind, as someone else already mentioned, that the sinkhole is only temporarily fixed. Taking a look at the timeline of events: it was filled in March of 2012 with similar gravel; it was filled again about six months later. So it's likely the sinkhole will continue to 'reappear' until the sewer, owned by The Ellis School, is removed or repaired.


2012-09-30 15:55:21

@Emily I thought the story was extremely well produced. more like this!


dmtroyer
2012-10-02 13:56:28

Yes, it was a nice mix of history and current information.


sgtjonson
2012-10-02 14:04:21

Very nicely done article.


rsprake
2012-10-02 14:16:28

A quote in the article (very well done, by the way) has now triggered some political squabbling. PG article.


steven
2012-10-04 04:53:58