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bike shopping

I've been dreaming of a second bike and debating about what to get for a long time, and I finally decided that a Salsa Casseroll was pretty close to perfect for what I wanted, as far as complete bikes go.


Just my luck, I found out today that Salsa discontinued the Casseroll in my size. QBP has zero. I guess short people don't buy enough comfy steel road bikes. Booooo.


My question: Has anyone seen a short-person Casseroll (pretty sure I need a 53cm in their sizing) in the wild at any shops around here? I am prepared to just try to build something similar from some other steel frame, but I figure I might as well try to make sure there isn't a stray Casseroll out there first.


2012-05-22 03:25:34

i just got a casseroll recently! i love it to bits. i got mine at Thick, it's a 53cm. i'm 5'3" with exceptionally stubby legs. i reckon you've already tried Thick bikes?


parvipica
2012-05-22 04:07:44

Go to thick and talk to them. Chris found me one of the last 3 fujis in the country in my size.


stefb
2012-05-22 09:34:29

I think I need the 53 too: I'm 5'3" (and a half!), also with leg stubbiness. Haha. I'll try to make it to Thick before they close today. I hadn't actually made it there yet. It sounds like Chris is the guy who can track one down, if anyone can.


2012-05-22 14:01:01

Yep, the 53cm Casserolls are allllllll gone until sometime in 2013.


BUT the guys at Thick were super helpful and suggested that I try out the All-City Space Horse when they get more small ones in a couple of weeks. It is beautiful except that it has a stupid double, and it may end up costing a bunch of money if I have to switch the shifters to put a triple on it, but in pretty much every other way it is awesome... so now I will just be waiting impatiently until they actually have one I can try.


2012-05-22 23:22:53

@pearmask: Rather than switching to a triple, what about just swapping out the rear mech and cassette? Go with a long-cage derailler and an 11-34, and a double will work just fine and dandy.


reddan
2012-05-23 00:22:15

if i had been introduced to a bike called Space Horse when i was shopping around, i probably wouldn't have noticed any of the technical shifter/gear aspects and just said 'yes i need the space pony now here's my card'


parvipica
2012-05-23 00:37:22

@ reddan an 11-34, and a double will work just fine


Maybe. I had an 11-?-?-?-?-?-26-34 which had frustratingly bad coverage in the lowest gears. That jump from 26 teeth to 34 was just about the jump on a 3 speed.


That left me always wanting a gear in the middle.


mick
2012-05-23 00:40:06

I saw at least one place online that claims to have a 53 in stock. ordinarily I'd say "support your LBS" but if it's what you really want and can't get it locally, I'd probably buy it online.


I had a pretty good experience swapping my crosscheck for a triple, the shop bought the old parts back so it didn't cost much. Although if you go for the All-City it's already 34/30 so doing what Dan said is identical to putting on a road triple (typically 30T) as far as low gear goes.


salty
2012-05-23 00:44:47

@reddan: Yeah, maybe that wouldn't be too bad. My current bike has a 28/38/48, and I don't really need that 28 all the time, but there are a few hills that I encounter here that I sort of can't imagine doing without it. I just really, really like spinning and really do not like the stand-and-mash approach. But I just counted and realized the new cassette I got a while back is actually an 11-30 (not an 11-32 like I thought it was), so maybe I could actually handle a double with an 11-34.


2012-05-23 00:44:59

@parvipica EXACTLY. It's also extremely orange, which somehow seems appropriate for a space pony.


2012-05-23 00:48:06

Mick, the solution to that is pretty simple - don't buy a cassette with such a huge jump. Mine is 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30-34t which isn't too bad. It took a few days to adjust to the bigger gaps (compared to the 12-25 I used to ride), but I think I like the 11-34 better now.


salty
2012-05-23 00:49:14

@mick, that's a good point. Maybe that just means that if I go that route I need to be picky about which 11-34 I get. Hopefully there's something without that weird 26-34 jump. Seems like that would be enormous.

ETA: yeah, I'll look for one like salty has with the 30-34 jump


@salty, I guess I hadn't even really thought about looking online. Now that I've seen the space pony, though, it's as good and maybe better in a lot of ways. The gearing is really the only thing that isn't awesome about it. It has some nice things that the Casseroll doesn't, like low-rider mounts and pretty lugs and braze-ons and some kind of fancy coating that means it never ever rusts. As long as I like it when I actually get to ride one, I guess I'd rather have that bike and buy it from a good shop than try to buy the Casseroll online.


2012-05-23 00:53:48

@Mick, I believe you had a mega range cassette from Shimano. Those did have a huge jump at the end for sure. Check out something like a WiFli set up from SRAM (eg Apex)

http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-pg-1050-cassette


@pearmask in line with the above, your 28x30 is almost the same as a 34x32.


mayhew
2012-05-23 02:31:30

Thanks, Chris. I was fiddling with Sheldon Brown's gear ratio calculator to try to figure that out earlier.


...I think I might call Thick tomorrow to be like "I WANT THAT TINY SPACE PONY AND WHEN IT GETS HERE IT IS MINE"


2012-05-23 02:46:43

And yes, thanks to parvipica, if I own this bike, it will forever be referred to as my "space pony."


2012-05-23 02:48:02

34x32 is more or less "missing" one gear compared to 28x30; the low gear is 13.8% higher. the stock 34x30 is 21.4% higher.


shimano has some 34 and 36 cassettes but you'd have to look at compatibility. 34x36 is basically identical to 28x30 (1.2% higher).


I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts about spinning vs. standing up. I rode 30x25 for the past 3 years but now that I have 26x34 I don't want to go back. I only had to give up 4% on the top end (which is basically useless) and bigger gaps between gears of course but it's totally worth it for me.


salty
2012-05-23 05:57:56

Yeah, I'll have to talk to Thick about what would actually work. I have no idea how compatibility works with this kind of stuff. Regardless, I think I could deal as long as I can get at least a 32, preferably a 34. There probably aren't that many hills that I couldn't do now (admittedly with it being a little less pleasant, but whatever) with the combo of the 28 in front and the second- or third-biggest ring in the back on my current bike (second is 26, third is... 21 or something).


Edit: Just found this: http://road.cc/content/news/31511-shimano-launch-tiagra-10-speed-new-cyclo-cross-components-and-ultegra-colour-2012

...which seems relevant since it discusses compatibility stuff with these Tiagra 4600 components... I do know it indicates that even the short-cage derailleur will work with up to a 34 and the long-cage will work with up to a 38, meaning there must be some cassette out there that will be compatible and that will meet my needs. That article also makes the Tiagra triple setup sound really nice and makes me sad that this bike doesn't have it, but oh well.


2012-05-23 06:31:22

Hm, another nail in the coffin for 9spd :-(


BTW, those 34/38 numbers are the capacity, not the max cog size. i.e. the long cage can handle up to 38T total difference - 50-30=20 in the front plus 30-12=18 in the back = 38. I've heard you can exceed that limit as long as you avoid extreme cross-chaining but typically MTB stuff has more range as well as larger cogs - my LHT has 22+23=45T using a deore LX MTB rear derailleur.


salty
2012-05-23 07:20:31

Ohhhhhhh. I figured I was missing something there. That makes more sense now. Hmmm. But I can probably get some rear derailleur that will work with a 34 or whatever in the back that will also work with the Tiagra shifters and stuff, yeah? (Clearly I am clueless about this sort of thing)


2012-05-23 07:32:57

I'm pretty clueless myself, and of course the manufacturers don't exactly make it easy to understand. I know I have the exact same shifters on my two bikes, with a road RD on one and MTB on the other. I think you can generally mix and match like that, but there are certainly exceptions.


salty
2012-05-23 10:23:49

Alll City makes really sweet bikes! I am excited for you.


stefb
2012-05-23 11:22:23

Friction shifting.


ken-kaminski
2012-05-23 11:47:16

Jamis has some steel road frames too. I think Biketek carries them, and they've always been friendly the few times I've walked in there.


rice-rocket
2012-05-23 12:46:43

I have been in love with that light, lime green all-city frame that's been hanging above the counter at thick for a few years now. I have a recurring dream where I buy it...but then there's no fork to match it :(


rubberfactory
2012-05-23 12:51:30

That Space Pony even has little white socks.


epkiley
2012-05-23 13:05:23

wow, thanks for the heads up on the space pony and all-city bikes in general. frankly, I think the gearing is wacky for what it is trying to be (commuter/touring/cross bike?). Who the heck ever really needs 50T in those situations? So you hit 52mph on that downhill instead of 46, great.


dmtroyer
2012-05-23 13:05:58

You can't pedal to 46 or 50. The 50 is designed for road cyclists doing road races. I've just about spun out at 50x12 at the Bud Harris Oval. That's about the only time though.


mayhew
2012-05-23 13:30:01

I am definitely going to need to gear up my beater/commuter bike, I'm spinning out the 44-13 high on Carson st in the morning. But I don't know what kind of chainrings are available for a 15 yr old mtn bike crankset.


edmonds59
2012-05-23 15:02:41

Thanks, guys!


@rice rocket: Thanks. I considered Jamis frames, and the Aurora and Bosanova are nice (and have more appropriate gearing), but I think I'm in love with this frame now, regardless of whether the components are all quite what I need... oops.


@dmtroyer: I think it's kinda weird too, but I think I see what niche they are trying to fill. There are plenty of bikes set up for fully-loaded touring with triples and heavy-ish frames that might not handle great unloaded, but this is trying to be a "faster" bike that can still carry a load and be comfortable. I guess it makes sense in that "light touring / randonneuring / commuting" range: there are bikes like the Casseroll in the same group that do have triples, but I guess not everyone needs or wants that. I imagine someone who lived somewhere less hilly and really wanted to sort of do some road riding but also be able to throw panniers on and carry stuff around might appreciate this gearing.


2012-05-23 15:03:56

@edmonds might be worth looking into a cassette. Chainrings can be problematic whereas an 11 or 12t cassette might be easy to come by.


mayhew
2012-05-23 16:51:49

If it's 15 years old, it probably has a freewheel and not a cassette, and 13T is the smallest you can go.


Edit: Looks like there are some 12T and 11T, but they're somewhat rare.


rice-rocket
2012-05-23 17:08:16

@epkiley it totally does. that pretty much makes my day.


I'm gonna try to pay extra attention to my gearing this week and try to figure out what the highest and lowest combinations I really need are. On the high end, I guess I do spin out on hills sometimes, but I don't really NEED a higher gear, since most of those times my paranoia would probably keep me from wanting to go much faster anyway. I wouldn't mind having the 50 instead of my 48, I guess, but I would gladly give it up to get a smaller small ring.


2012-05-23 17:26:52

assuming "spin out" means 120rpm that's 41.7mph on a 48/11 vs. 43.4mph on a 50/11. not much need for pedaling at those speeds if you're not racing.


edmonds' 44/13 is 32.3 mph by comparison, definitely a little short (especially since that's only 24.3mph @90rpm).


salty
2012-05-23 18:01:12

Yeah, when I say I'm "spinning out," it's probably not that definition of spinning out, haha. More just that I'm running out of gears that let me pedal at the speed I feel comfortable pedaling at, which probably tends to be a range a lot lower than 120rpm. And whether or not it's technically correct, I tend to prefer lower cadences when I'm headed downhill really fast, since I feel more in control that way. Either way, I highly doubt that I've ever reached 40mph on my bike.


There's also a small chance that I'm just extra-clueless and that my cassette is actually 12-30. The original one on the bike was 11-32, and when it was replaced, I thought it was the same range but then realized yesterday the big ring was a 30, and there's a small chance that the small ring is not actually what I've been assuming it is either. I'm going to check that after work today.


2012-05-23 18:10:13

salty that calc sounds exactly right. For discussions sake, if I were to catch the draft of a bus or truck on Carson (theoretically, of course) I theoretically start to run out of go at right about that speed. Theoretically.

Kids, don't try at home.


edmonds59
2012-05-23 18:42:31

well, it comes straight from sheldon's calculator so i can't take credit ;) i play with that thing way too much.


When I worked out edmonds' way I'd hit the mid-40s regularly on Steuben near Primanti's. I'm not really sure if pedaling beyond say 35 (assuming you're not drafting) does anything useful. Also not really sure how smart it is to go that fast on a bike in traffic.


salty
2012-05-23 19:13:00

Yeah, my thoughts exactly about going that fast in traffic. I feel like I remember seeing 35mph show up briefly on MapMyRide on a descent down Forbes through Frick or somewhere, but once I learned last year what it felt like to wipe out at the bottom of a hill even at some speed less than 35mph, I never thought it was quite as fun to push my speed on downhills in traffic... (Caught a green light at the bottom of the hill on Forbes through Frick, got across Braddock, suddenly and inexplicably found myself in a pile on the road tangled up with my handlebars, got very lucky that the driver behind me was giving me plenty of space and stopped, will probably forever have a couple of fancy-looking scars on my knee as a reminder to slow the #$*@ down)


2012-05-23 22:31:25

My love of going fast far exceeds my fear of crashing. And I've crashed a lot.


edmonds59
2012-05-23 23:33:54

That injury hadn't even healed yet when I had my "real" wreck, so I guess the combinations of both incidents in the maybe 7 months I had had my bike were enough to give me some hill-related paranoia for a while, haha. I'm guessing I'll get over that and enjoy speed again eventually.


2012-05-23 23:38:59

all of this technical talk is all well and good, but i should point out that if you're going to own a space pony, you're going to have to get sparkly streamers. then when you're galloping tear-jerker fast down hills, they'll be flapping majestically in the breeze.


it's important.


parvipica
2012-05-24 01:06:14



2012-05-24 01:12:58

Additional inspiration:




2012-05-24 01:17:21



dmtroyer
2012-05-24 01:22:21

Space pony probably uses infinite improbability drive. Probably.


edmonds59
2012-05-24 01:48:36

Speaking of new bikes, I want an all city big block now. I have issues. I like new stuff.


stefb
2012-05-24 04:21:06

pearmask: yes.


rubberfactory
2012-05-24 08:35:34

Has anybody ever ridden an All-City bike to know whether their sizing is weird? I was 95% sure I would need a 49cm space pony, but then I emailed them to double-check the standover heights, and they seem surprisingly huge to the point where I'm not sure I could stand over the 49cm. My nightmare is that I will try the 49cm when Thick gets one in a few weeks, realize I need the 46cm, and then find out that the 46cm is sold out everywhere and that would be soooo sadddddd


2012-05-28 00:34:29

I was looking at their big block to replace my SE Lager. They had a 49 at thick that was lacking pedals, so I did a quick stand over and it was hitting me in the girl parts. With the all-city big block, the bottom bracket is higher cause of some velodrome in Minneapolis that is super steep.. Raising the bottom bracket and this the whole bike height decreased the chance of pedal strike when cornering. I think I got that right.. That is basically what Adam (sales guy) said. I don't know if that could be the case for the space horse.. If they did something similar for some intended use???


stefb
2012-05-28 12:15:59

Thanks, stefb. Yeah, looks like the 49cm Big Block has a tiny BB drop (58mm) and thus a really high BB (looks super high even looking at the bike, wow). The Space Horse's BB drop is 75mm. Plus the Big Block's seat tube is just a teeny bit longer than the seat tube on the Space Horse, and the top tube on the Big Block doesn't slope. Hopefully that all means the Space Horse isn't so tall. I think maybe the standover heights they quoted to me are measured some crazy way, because they don't make sense when comparing the Space Horse to measurements for other bikes with similar geometry.


Yeah, I might be overthinking this because I'm just a teeny bit impatient for New Bike Day to come... maybe


2012-05-28 19:36:00

I dunno. I was told that there are different ways to measure bikes. I had no idea.


stefb
2012-05-28 19:43:31

Yeah, apparently there are. I don't know that much about bike geometry or sizing or whatever, so I'm just trying to use my knowledge of geometry in general to figure this out. But I'm not sure it's actually a productive endeavor... I just need to be patient and wait to try the bike in person. I'm not doing so well with that patience thing so far haha


2012-05-28 20:44:39

Yeah I guess the best thing is to figure out about what size you would be then try the bike.


stefb
2012-05-28 21:31:43

Yeah, I know I need around a 49cm. I just have short legs, so sometimes standover height is the deciding factor. I'm just hoping the 49 will fit since that's what they're getting in a few weeks; otherwise I'll have to wait for them to try to order a 46.


2012-05-28 22:35:47

At last: bike shopping complete!

(Sorry, I can't help showing it off; it is shiny)

_MG_0367


2012-07-08 01:25:37

Nice bike. I'm sooo getting an All-City bike now


marvelousm3
2012-07-08 01:28:40

All of the cool kids are doing it.


stefb
2012-07-08 02:16:57

Yes! Peer pressure! Mr marv, you must get one!


Dumb question about SPD pedals: Found the screw for loosening/tightening the tension. Okay. Loosened them all the way just to practice clipping in and out. Done. But... when both are loosened as far as they will go, the right one pops out pretty much as soon as I move my foot, but the left one is still quite hard to get in and out of. And I am a habitual left-foot-down rider, so that sucks, because I want the left one to be easier to get out of. Why are they not the same? Is there some other adjustment I don't know about? Confusedddd


2012-07-08 04:05:55

Congrats!


In regards of pedals -- I've found that in most cases the difference is very close in most cases. It's a difference in feet that plays a role. If your right foot is dominant one (you use it to jump, or stop and turn while running) then it will look like right pedal is much softer.


2012-07-08 04:25:26

Thanks!


I am right-handed and presumably right-footed, so maybe that's part of it, but it's definitely not a small difference, so I really don't think it's all that. And my left foot is used to pulling out of the straps I use on my other bike and stuff, and my right ankle has always sorta had some issues so my right foot may actually be weaker at that kind of motion. IDK what's going on. It's weird.


2012-07-08 04:37:17

Gorgeous bike!


pseudacris
2012-07-08 16:38:38

@pearmask Re: cleats and getting out. Check the alignment of the cleats. Take a pencil (or similar) and line it up along the center line of the cleat, so that the tip is pointing towards the toes. If one cleat is rotated significantly it can take a lot of turning to get your foot out.


The other issue may be some shoe/cleat/pedal interference. Sometimes the cleat pocket of the shoe interferes with the engagement, in which case you want to take a knife and cut away whatever part of the sole is causing the problem. Clip the shoe into the pedal w/o your foot in it and have a look. Or take it to the shop you got it from and ask them to help.


mayhew
2012-07-08 19:22:25

Try swapping your left and right cleats too (or clip your right shoe into your left pedal). SPD cleats are cast and aren't post-machined, so sometimes they're hit or miss.


rice-rocket
2012-07-08 19:26:44

It has a nice head badge


sgtjonson
2012-07-08 19:31:39

Thanks for the advice, Chris & rice rocket. The alignment and cleat pocket seem to be a-ok. There may be some difference between the two cleats, although I couldn't tell for sure. I even tried it with another set of cleats because I had a single-release and a multi-release pair. After trying to identify another cause, I think there really must be something up with the left pedal. It's not a subtle difference — clipping in and out of the left one requires a lot more force and is even quite a bit louder. But in general, this pair of multi-release cleats seems to release with less force, so I'll just use them for now and go ask Iron City about it sometime this week.


In related news, while figuring this out, I had my first 0 mph clipless fall. In my apartment. For some reason my brain was like "Sarah, you are totally rocking this clipping in and out thing, and it would be really fun to take your hand off this wall and see if you can, like, trackstand in your living room." (What? Duh, no, of course I can't.) It's a shame no one was here to mock me, because I'm pretty sure it was a hilarious spectacle.


2012-07-09 00:25:03

And thanks, pseudacris!


And Pierce, I agree :)

<----


2012-07-09 00:34:13

Sweet Bike! I think I saw it outside OTB Sun. eve, it is un-missable.

I don't know what to think about the pedal issue, if it's that different from one side to the other, you should probably have a mechanic look at it before you clip-dump in traffic.

Also I see nothing wrong with attempting track stands in an apartment.


edmonds59
2012-07-09 13:45:20

Yeah, that's not a bad point about getting someone to look at it first. I was thinking about trying it out on my commute this morning, but perhaps I'll hold off on that.


That wasn't me at OTB on Sunday, but I know there is at least one other orange Space Horse somewhere in the city, and probably more than that.


2012-07-09 14:10:00

horizontal track stand!


was that you and your space horse in iron city last saturday? if so, i was the fella with the giant beard asking about proofide.


hiddenvariable
2012-07-09 15:29:11

Damn, that is a beautiful bike. Congrats!


rzod
2012-07-09 15:50:50

I was so confident in my horizontal track standing abilities that I was doing this in the part of my apartment with hardwood instead of the nice soft carpet the next room over. I'm smart like that.


Yep, that was me. Nice to unknowingly meet you! Hah, I've pretty much been in there every other day for a while as this bike was being ordered and built and rebuilt etc. I think they are pretty sick of me.


Thanks, rzod :D


Riding without at least my dominant foot attached to my pedal in some way is just weird now since I'm used to having foot retention on my other bike, so I rode to work with just my right foot clipped in today, as a compromise just in case the weird left pedal decided to make me horizontal track stand in traffic. Did not die.


2012-07-09 16:07:13

Seeing the bike in person it is a beautiful bike, How comfortable is the Brooks saddle?


marvelousm3
2012-07-11 00:56:33

Thanks! Man, I am soooo excited about it.


Well, so far, I'm not sure about it, but let me get back to you in a few miles: I'm 99% sure that's because

A. I still haven't found exactly the perfect angle + fore/aft position

B. I'm used to a non-leather saddle with a cutout and stuff

C. I was riding in shorts that were a really terrible choice for bike comfort the past few days, because they were what was clean for me to go to work

D. All of the above?

So I'm pretty sure it's *going* to be awesome


2012-07-11 02:56:44

Get the saddle wet and ride it for a few hours. Repeat this for a few days while proof hiding it over night. It will break in a lot sooner and be the comfiest thing ever. Very like good leather boots.


cburch
2012-07-11 04:59:42

Yes and as it breaks in take the slack out with the adjuster nut, it should not sag. But go gently because it's not supposed to be a drum head either. Never use the adjuster nut if the saddle is wet.


edmonds59
2012-07-11 10:55:59

Heh nut.


stefb
2012-07-11 12:42:35

I didn't like my Brooks saddle at first. I bought it at REI in case I wanted to return it. Then after about 2 weeks I realized I wasn't thinking about my saddle any more. I think one of the things than makes it "comfortable" is that it is hard and smooth, so a lot of the friction that causes discomfort is lessened.


In the rainy season I keep a plastic bag tucked underneath so I can protect it if I have to lock up outside.


pseudacris
2012-07-11 13:01:42

BTW Sheldon Brown's advice on breaking in Brooks saddles, which worked for me, is here. It differs to a significant degree from Colin's -- Sheldon wouldn't want you to get the saddle wet, and definitely doesn't want you to turn the adjuster nut. Brooks saddles are expensive enough that it makes sense to study up on them a bit.


jonawebb
2012-07-11 13:05:30

Thanks, guys! I have read up on them a little, but this is one of the "aged" ones, and supposedly they need slightly different treatment - but there doesn't seem to be complete consensus about what that means. Parts of the Brooks website say don't do anything and just ride it, parts say to Proofide it (but only the underside and never the top), etc. IDK. Right now I'm going with "just ride it." My ride in today was pretty comfy with shorts with a less horrendously placed seam, but I'll have to get some longer rides in before I give a verdict.


In other news, after further investigation, rice rocket was right. The pedals are fine, that one cleat was just weird.


2012-07-11 15:59:01

Oh if it's a pre-aged one don't wet it, and don't let it get wet (I have one). They're softer to begin with, just ride it. But def oil it at some point. You can do the top too, it just darkens it some.

Also I like stuff called Sno-seal, it's for boots, but it's basically the same as Proofide, and you can get a cup-sized can for the price of a thimble of Proofide.


edmonds59
2012-07-11 16:20:00

Oh okay, thanks. Have you had it for a while? How have you liked it? I'm hoping I made a good choice with it.


Also, that Sno-seal stuff sounds really handy. I have some boots that could also use that. (Actually, now that I think about it, I have some kind of fancy boot leather conditioning something-or-other... I wonder if it's anything like Proofide. If a Brooks is like good leather boots, seems like I could put the stuff I put on my good leather boots on my Brooks... but I'm somewhat afraid to risk it if it's not the same)


2012-07-11 16:59:23

i've also been meaning to ask some questions about my first brooks saddle™.


basically, i'm having a hell of a time getting the tilt correct. if i adjust it so that the nose isn't digging into my bits, i slide forward, due to the slight incline at the back of the saddle. is there a consensus about how best to do this for this kind of saddle?


is this the sort of thing that goes away after the breaking in period? because other than the pressure i've had on my arms lately, it was really pretty damned comfortable to begin with.


hiddenvariable
2012-07-11 17:14:45

pearmask I've had mine 2 yrs or so, love it. I'm pretty confident you will be pleased.

HV, the sliding forward thing should go away over time as it breaks in, the leather will conform to your bony parts and snuggle you right in there. Just keep fiddling with it until it feels right.


edmonds59
2012-07-11 17:44:29

You might try moving it forward or back a bit. If you can't move it forward far enough you can reverse the seat post. With the right adjustment the force from your pedaling should keep you in place, is the way it feels anyway.


jonawebb
2012-07-11 18:31:28

HV, I have totally been having the same issue. I rode like 15 miles of trail today for the sole purpose of adjusting and re-adjusting the saddle every few miles. I think I *finally* got it where it needs to be to keep weight off of my hands and other places that shouldn't be weight-bearing, but it was a matter of making teeny-tiny adjustments... lots of them. Moving it forward definitely helped, but who knows whether the same thing would work for someone else, since saddle adjustment is about as personal as it gets.


Was it one of you guys who talked to me in Iron City yesterday and asked if I was pearmask? Awkward human that I am, I didn't think to ask you who you were. (And if I should have recognized you... my bad.)


2012-07-12 02:16:42

So now I want a Brooks saddle but I don't know much about them or why they are so popular. My concern is I ride all year in all types of weather. Can I use a Brooks in rain and snow? And are they really THAT comfortable?


marvelousm3
2012-07-12 02:18:16

I won't get a brooks saddle cause it is leather.

However I do have a pair of lake shoes that I have had for forever that don't hurt my feet. I need to find comfy cycling shoes for wide feet that aren't leather, but that is a whole other topic (and I realize I am strange when I occasionally apologize to my leather shoes).


stefb
2012-07-12 02:34:18

@marvelous


Because they're expensive, come from England, look cool, and are durable?


--


I wonder how many cyclists with Brooks saddles tout the environmental benefits of cycling:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_production_processes#Environmental_impact


(Animal use is the largest source of pollution and greenhouse gas emissions)


--


I will never understand the vegetarian's aversion to leather. The leather may very well be sourced from the hides of spent dairy cows


--


Criticisms aside, I could also potentially use a new non-leather saddle. The one on my Schwinn isn't particularly comfortable. Any recommendations BikePgh message board users?


sgtjonson
2012-07-12 02:55:42

I'm pretty sure all the reasons I've heard for buying a Brooks have been "because it is the most comfortable saddle I've ever had."


Better one Brooks saddle than a leather interior and a combustion engine.


2012-07-12 03:44:47

Cause vegetarians may not like to wear or use dead animals, just as they don't like to eat dead animals. I kew I shouldn't have said anything, but it is a consistent view to have when you think about it ("I don't want to buy or eat any dead things")... Though I post this from cburch's stupid leather chair, where I sit because he and the dogs have fallen asleep on the couch..


Anyway I have Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour Road Saddles, and as far as I know, they are not leather. Very comfy, and they're not yet worn out.


stefb
2012-07-12 09:17:11

I didn't mean to start a leather vs non leather debate. I'm sorry about that. I think I'll take back the question. I just am interested in a really comfortable saddle.

Some of my best friends are vegans and vegetarians.


marvelousm3
2012-07-12 10:07:22

Yeah, stefb, I think it's totally reasonable, despite the fact that I'm a leather-using vegetarian.


mr marv, I think it was a fair question. I shouldn't have said anything to encourage the leather debate, haha


So... let's talk about bikes instead of cows :)


2012-07-12 11:13:13

Mr. Marv, Brooks saddles are great, but they are not some magical mystical thing. There is presently some aura of exclusivity about them, because they are cool, but try and disregard that aspect. They are simply a time proven well functioning quality product. They are intended to last you 30 or 40 years if properly taken care of. And they are extremely comfortable once broken in, exactly like good shoes. They are expensive because they are hand made by living human beings and not popped out of a mold by 10 year old Chinese children.

They really come into their own when you start riding 80, 100, 200 miles at a time, if you mainly 5 or 10 miles to work or around town, I would find it hard to justify, you could effectively clamp any old thing to your seat post. In that case I'd be more worried about theft than anything.

Mine came with a fitted cover for riding in rain and snow, but they are not in any way fragile, they're fine as long as they're oiled right. If you're not concerned about the leather issue it's worth considering. If you want something really comfy, check out the sprung Flyer. You could ride down Joncaire street full speed and not even notice it.


edmonds59
2012-07-12 11:35:01

My Kids love watching a program on I think Discovery Channel (or maybe Sci-Fi?) called "How It's Made." The "Bicycle Seat" segment showed how Brooks saddles are made. It is a pretty cool segment (can probably view on YouTube?).


(Disclaimer: I don't have one, but I do eat meat.)


atleastmykidsloveme
2012-07-12 11:45:49

I never got the Brooks appeal. Tried them, were not worth the effort and care. My Specialized and WTB seats can sit at the bottom of the river for a week and not be an issue. I think they are all also non-leather, if that really matters. I am sure you can find a shop that you frequent to try out a few seats, I know WTB, Specialized, and a few others offer loaner saddles.


orionz06
2012-07-12 11:54:59

Seats are hard to adjust in any case. was on a rental bike recently (my bike was delayed in shipping) and the seat felt like hell. Seemed to be shoving my prostate right into my crotch. Then my bike arrived and my Brooks saddle was like an old friend. I don't doubt that you have to make many micro adjustments to get a saddle just right, but what a difference it makes when you do. I guess the big advantage of a leather saddle is that it adjusts itself as it wears in, so those tiniest adjustments are done for you.

I am a vegetarian but don't have a problem wearing or using leather. There is a big difference, for me, between using an animal product and actually consuming animal flesh. Yuck!

For what it's worth, Brooks saddles are made from cows raised organically, probably some place nice like Switzerland.


jonawebb
2012-07-12 12:24:36

@orizon06 I also failed to make my butt and Brooks friends. It just plain did not work.


2012-07-12 12:24:56

My favorite seat is a $50 (clearance) WTB. I like it more than my $200+ Specialized seat. If I could find one I would also buy an old Dyno seat that I had on a VFR circa 1995-1997. Was an amazing seat that fit me quite well at the age of 19, I assume that would still be the case today as my Specialized seat is about the same with a subtle difference. I would have no shame putting that on a "race" bike.


orionz06
2012-07-12 12:40:27

@HiddenVariable:


Leather saddles don't work with everyone's physiology, which sucks because you can't know this until after you've spent a ton of money and effort trying to get it right. Your tilt issue might mean that you need a seat with a cut-out. There are some cut-out leather saddles on the market.


For anyone giving up on leather, I will buy your cast-offs at a reasonable price.


ken-kaminski
2012-07-12 14:30:39

Ken,


Sorry, my cast-off is long time gone.


2012-07-12 14:40:28

Also there are about fifty different designs of Brooks saddles for different people and pursuits from the ridiculously minimal Swallow to the mattress-like B18 Lady, so if someone is considering it, do some research.


edmonds59
2012-07-12 15:16:56

One thing I don't get about Brooks, after looking them over more. I understand that handmade leather items cost much more at times, but damn. Some of these heavier leather seats exceed the prices of some pretty high end "race" seats. Not that everyone here is buying parts based on their weight but wow. Strikes me as a poor investment based on the return unless they are that magical.


orionz06
2012-07-12 15:57:38

if i adjust it so that the nose isn't digging into my bits, i slide forward, due to the slight incline at the back of the saddle. is there a consensus about how best to do this for this kind of saddle?


Place a level across the nose and the back of the saddle and adjust until it's flat. That should be it.


Not that everyone here is buying parts based on their weight but wow. Strikes me as a poor investment based on the return unless they are that magical.


To each their own. A supple Brooks saddle absorbs bumps in a way that normal saddles just can't match. My arse and back are worth the money.


rsprake
2012-07-12 16:18:32

Not magical, just made to last 30 years. IMO a reasonable life cycle cost, and a small antidote to the disposable tendencies of our society.


edmonds59
2012-07-12 16:20:39

not to mention hand made in a union factory. even the rivets are hammered in by hand on the fancier ones.


cburch
2012-07-12 16:27:10

It's been said...the Brooks saddles never break in, they break YOU in. ;)


rice-rocket
2012-07-12 16:33:47

To me they're worth it.


ken-kaminski
2012-07-12 18:21:05

@edmonds59 I have old Fuji Monterey road bike (27 inches wheel, steel frame, friction shifters, 10 speed). I believe it is about 30 years old. It still has original saddle. And it is not a Brooks one. Actually I've tried Brooks for this bike. I have this bike for over 11 years now. Never care much about sit. But it's still OK. I need to fix a couple of broken spokes and true wheels and use it again for trail biking.


Somehow my current saddle on my road bike is OK for more than 3 years now almost maintenance free (I wash it when I wash bike and dry it after). While leather requires ongoing maintenance through all 30 years. I understand that 3 years and 30 years are on the rder of magnitude different but I know what is going to happen to Brooks if you do the same with it. Friend of mine did it. :)


2012-07-12 18:37:42

If the Brooks pricing causes undue sticker shock, there's always the Velo-Orange leather saddles. (And Thick Bikes carries/can order V-O stuff.)


I've used neither Brooks nor V-O myself, so cannot speak to relative quality.


reddan
2012-07-12 18:54:01

The Velo Orange saddles are significantly harder when new.


rsprake
2012-07-12 19:02:25

@reddan good racing saddle goes on par with Brooks in terms of pricing. :) And since saddle is something very personal... I know a guy who races a lot and he has changed 4-5 bikes but his Fizik is still with him after more than 5 years. :)


2012-07-12 19:21:00

My brooks swift is right between my other road and mtb saddles price wise. It's the perfect saddle for the bike build and my usage of the bike. Thats why it's on there.


cburch
2012-07-12 19:50:06