BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Unless we start seeing a lot of U-locks being compromised, I suspect that the Fahgettaboutit is overkill for da 'Burgh.

I could be mistaken, but I don't recall hearing any reports of bikes being stolen locally that were secured with a standard U-lock.

I have it, but I don't know where to get it locally. I bought it on Amazon because I didn't see them in shops around here and was impatient. Yeah, it's overkill, but it makes me feel better, and it's a lot cheaper than a new bike. And it's a good size for most locking situations (can usually fit around rack + frame + rear wheel w/o leaving extra space to wedge any evil bike-stealing tools in there). Obvious drawback: it's not exactly light.

Edit: mr marv makes a good point below that it might not fit all bikes / locking situations well since it's smallish. The size happens to be perfect for me — I preferred it enough that I sold my larger U-lock after I bought it — but I guess it depends on the bike and where you like to lock up.

I had the Fahgettaboutit and returned it. 1) It's over kill in Pittsburgh. A standard U-lock USED CORRECTLY will do the job just fine. 2) it's size, It being a min u-lock made it difficult to find racks and poles to lock the bike around. It was often too small to fit on bike and rack. If you are really nervous about loosing your wheels sometimes I do the double u-lock one on the front and back. Both locks cheeper than the NYC and also weigh less.

(Edit) There are larger sizes of NYC locks that are not the Fahgettaboutit. But still almost as strong

There was one single report of a stolen U-locked bike here, a year or two ago, but I agree that a U-lock seems more than sufficient for this area.

I don't recall ever hearing about a cut u-Lock

+1 on correctly using U-Lock

My bike had a u-lock on it and was stolen (probably lifted over pole) Luckily however, I was able to retrieve the bike

Yesterday I saw a mountain bike on S Braddock. The quick-release front wheel was tethered to a handrail with a cable lock. D'oh!

[edit] @hcurtis: what store & what time of day did this happen? do you know if the store employees filed a police report? If not, please consider reporting the incident(s) using the city's on-line crime report form. http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/police/html/police_tip_form.html

Thanks for the replies. I probably an overkill kind of person, but my bike would be hard to replace and I just want multiple locks now. Thanks again.

This list seems a bit paranoid, but you are probably fine in pittsburgh if you:

*Use a ulock on your frame every time.

*Be sure that whatever you lock to can't be removed from the ground easily.

*Don't leave either of your wheels unsecured, especially if you have quick releases. You can lock your wheel with security skewers, a cable attached to your ulock, or you can use a single longer style ulock (through the frame, rear wheel, and the front wheel detached from the bike)

*If you have a nice saddle, you can protect it with a small cable or a diy bike chain 'lock'. Even if you don't worry much about the seat running away, Don't use a quick release seatpost clamp, it's just too easy to grab and go.

*Don't leave your bike outside overnight if possible.

*Don't ever leave your bike unlock for 'just a second' while you run in to a store.

*Lock your bike to something when storing indoors, especially in a garage. At least try and lock the wheels to the frame so it can't be ridden away.

Basics from Downtown LA Cycles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aztffg1IwU&feature=player_embedded

@Steven: if i recall correctly, wasn't that u-locked bike that was stolen locked to a telephone pole stabilizing cable, which was cut? and the u-lock itself was not defeated?

For a lower-cost alternative to those Kryptonite chain locks, just stop at Home Depot and get a foot or two of high tensile truckers' binding chain ($5 per foot at most, I think) and a higher-end padlock. I believe that for less than $20 you can have a pretty comparable chain and lock, albeit without the plastic cover to protect the bike's paint.

It's all about using a U-lock correctly, chains are much easier to defeat than u-locks. I don't think the youths in question had a power saw on hand, and if they did no lock including any of the NYC locks will matter.

^@jacob mcrea, yep, and an old mtn bike tube will take care of that last bit.

if i recall correctly, wasn't that u-locked bike that was stolen locked to a telephone pole stabilizing cable, which was cut? and the u-lock itself was not defeated?

I can't find the thread, but in the one I'm thinking of, I don't think the cyclist reported anything that would "exonerate" the u-lock. The claim was that the u-lock was correctly used, and both it and the bike were gone later. Of course, it's possible the cyclist was mistaken.

Thanks all. Ordered the Kryptonite Forgetaboudit Mini. I am going with the LA style on the video. Hope to lock the bike during work hours and bring it in late night. Sad to have to do all that, but after a broad daylight theft in front of a bunch of people, might as well make it harder for the losers to steal.

I do think with more and more bikes on the road, there will be more and more theft in Pittsburgh. Every time they steal one, it educates them a little more on how much money can be involved if they keep stealing. There are some easy targets out there. I really got lucky with my cable only. It is a thick really good cable, but not enough.

@Jacob and edmonds, nice idea. I'll have to see what I can scour. I was thinking heat-shrink tubing, but the old tube should work. Also, you could grab some liquid-electrical tape to coat it.

Careful with the lock selection though... anything with the big arch looking thing is easily broken. I can break most apart just by using two wrenches for leverage (learned that one in the Navy).

Okay the trend is here. Just got word that it happened again, but no success this time. They are using bikes as a lever and trying to pull them off using the bike as leverage. Amateurs of course, but if you have a chapter lock, it will probably break. They just walk by and twist/pull hard and see if they get lucky. My Krypto cable held up okay, so that tells me they are clueless. I am going to make it very difficult with multiple locks. Sure if they want to grind for a few hours, go for it. I think I may spot them and... well I feel for them at that point. I will take care of business.

One instance of bike theft does not imply "bike theft is on the rise". Buy as many locks as you want but you're likely no more or less safe than you were yesterday.

Dear God they're coming for my bicycle.

I felt a bit overly safe when my ulock froze the other day and I couldn't get my OWN bike.

@hcurtis: where is this happening?

various locks in the clearance section at REI. I got an OnGuard bulldog U-lock for about $20. It's not an incredible sale but I get excited to save money on something I was going to buy anyway.

Was the bike stolen in the first post even locked?

All this hullabaloo

"I do think with more and more bikes on the road, there will be more and more theft in Pittsburgh. Every time they steal one, it educates them a little more on how much money can be involved if they keep stealing. There are some easy targets out there."

Bike theft in Pittsburgh is nothing new. If you leave your bike unlocked, locked with a cable lock, or locked incorrectly, there's a decent chance it might get stolen.

In the warmer months there's an influx of new or inexperienced cyclists, many of them using insufficient locks if any at all, thus resulting in more thefts. It's also easier to turn over a bike (sell) in the warmer months because there is a larger market for them.

"@hcurtis: where is this happening?"

It is happening in East Liberty. Today a low life grabbed a bike and tried to use it as a lever to break it free. The lowlife didn't get the quick break, so he casually kept walking. I suspect the word is out that you can sometimes get lucky and it probably will continue for a while. Everyone is upgrading their locks if they have cheap ones. I got the Forgettaboudit today. It is one heavy lock and probably overkill, but they are not going to pull on that and break it. It would take some time to cut through that and I suspect it wouldn't work out.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this incase you have a lock that is really crap, but you think it looks good enough. If it can be broken with the bike as a lever, you might want to try a different method. If you have a pretty good lock, then you should be fine.

"Was the bike stolen in the first post even locked?"

One bike was locked with a cheap lock that snapped. My bike was locked with a Kryptonite cable and big heavy lock. It will now be locked with a cable and U-lock. I just don't want to have to think about it all the time. Glad my cable held up. Cables are pretty good for the tug/lever method of stealing I guess.

@ Pierce: I agree that went a higher end bike with a GPS gets stolen from a spot, the word gets out amongst the lowlifes and they come back to get them some. That GPS was probably pretty expensive and very easy to sell. The bike? I don't know how easy they are to sell in our region? Seems like that might require some effort, but I don't know. PIttsburgh isn't huge like NYC.

I still think you're blowing this out of proportion and extrapolating from a single data point. The class warfare you're perpetuating doesn't help much either.

If some POS ruins my frame trying to snap a lock with it, I'm going to be at equivalent levels of unhappiness. I guess that a heavy ass lock that appears unbreakable deters even the attempt, then that's what you want.

@joe +1

"Class warfare"? If you steal are you not a lowlife? If an image of what a lowlife would be is conjured up in your own mind, I suspect that warfare would be of your own making, not mine.

The problem is using cable locks. It doesn't matter who makes it or how thick the cable is, or if it's cheep or expensive, cable locks are easily defeated.

This seems relevant to the interests of you people:

This is outside the PNC branch in the Schenley Quad in Oakland. It would appear that two bikes were ineffectively locked, and a smart thief was able to use the accessible pieces of each bike to make a functioning ride. Of course, I don't know if that's what actually happened, but the aftermath doesn't rule it out.

Ow,that picture sucks. But it would be interesting if both owners arrived at the rack at the same time.

Blowing this out of proportion am I? I think not. Another bike gone today in East Liberty. It had a cable lock, so the pull hard technique might not be the method. Not sure. They got a taste of success. The word is out. It is escalating as I tried to tell you all. Do what you like, but I got that Forgetaboudit AND I am putting a huge chain lock on my bike with a giant lock. Might add a third. I prefer to keep my bike. Do as you will, but my bike was the only one on the rack today after the other one was stolen. It is only going to get worse now that the word is out.

"Another bike gone today in East Liberty. It had a cable lock, so the pull hard technique might not be the method. Not sure. They got a taste of success."

How do you know this? Did you watch it happen? (In which case you should have said something). Did you come back to a rack with one fewer bike on it? (In which case you can't prove that the owner didn't just come back for it).

Yeah, please take your shoes off when going on a plane and let's add more concrete flower planters to all the buildings for added safety

Dude, we always advocate for using a U-Lock, we always have. We've known for years and have seen repeatedly that cable locks get cut, nobody is doubting that.

As for the rest of it, I think you're giving them too much credit. Some kids grabbed a bike. Some other dude cut a cable lock. CRIME WAVE!

What exactly is the word? That crappy locks are crappy locks or that unlocked bikes can be stolen? They're crimes of opportunity, not bank heists

Two poorly locked bikes gone... Must be 2012 happening!

@Pierce Are you trying to say that stealing a bike (even it is not locked) is not a crime?

Someone in other thread was complaining that we accepted car accidents and death as fact of the life. And we've got lots proposals how to change society to change behavior of drivers.

Here I see that we accepted bike thievery as a fact of life and we propose bike owners to change their behavior but not to change society to reduce thievery.

Theft is not "fixable." Criminals will always steal what they can. "Changing that behavior" is not within reach of our society. If it was, there would be no need for bike locks, nor any other kind of lock.

Our society long ago accepted these as facts of life. This is not news.

However, I'm not sure theft and dangerous driving or vehicular assault are comparable.

Locks only stop honest people.

@AtLeastMyKidsLoveMe Do you think that driver behavior could be changed? Why?

I think heft and dangerous driving or vehicular assault are comparable in way how it affects society, but not comparable per individual danger. And we can ban pedestrians and bicyclist from roads and decrease danger for individuals.

"How do you know this? Did you watch it happen? (In which case you should have said something). Did you come back to a rack with one fewer bike on it? (In which case you can't prove that the owner didn't just come back for it)."

1. Um, I know the owner that had his bike stolen. Do you really think I am going to post that a bike is missing from a rack and therefore it must have been stolen? Goodness! Also, if I watched it happen, I would know the method they used, so you really should read my posts a bit better.

2. I have talked to management at this place of business and they told me this hasn't happened before, so these daily thefts are NEW to that location.

3. If you don't want to hear about bike theft, don't read this thread. I was only trying to warn other cyclists of a wave of theft. IMHO, two in a week at the same location tells me they are going to try it and if not there, they will keep going to other racks in East Liberty. Why wouldn't they with that kind of success rate?

If you question my intent of reporting bike theft, I really don't know what to say. Thought this was a bike forum for Pittsburgh and I felt my posting theft was important for the cycling community.

How does one know it is a wave? Bikes are stolen every day. A wave would be a noted increase, likely a significant increase, in bike thefts around town. Seems like the normal thefts are occurring when the opportunities present themselves. You merely reported someone who found an opportunity to steal a bike. Two in one week at one location means more than one person did something stupid or the same person did not learn.

Instead of posting here and making a big to do about nothing why not start a thread to tell us what you did to help those who lock there bikes at this location better protect their property?

Also, why not tell us which store it is?

@Mikhail:

I did not say driver behavior could be changed. I only said that society long ago accepted theft. That's why we use locks on our bikes and lock our doors at night.

The many manifestations of dangerous driver behavior are such that changing them are practically not feasible, in my opinion. Now, I am not saying we should not try. We should try - and here is where I see the distinction between theft and dangerous driving: dangerous driving results in injury and death.

The loss of personal property, while regrettable, is not comparable (and yes, I have experienced theft).

"How does one know it is a wave? Bikes are stolen every day. A wave would be a noted increase, likely a significant increase"

From not happening before, to two in a week. That sounds like an increase to me. It would have been three in one week, but someone gave chance and recovered one bike.

Whatever.

@Mikhail

What I'm saying is that they're not sophisticated attacks.

"Here I see that we accepted bike thievery as a fact of life and we propose bike owners to change their behavior but not to change society to reduce thievery."

In the short term, yes. Use a U-Lock.

I don't know why these particular bikes were stolen, but I'm guessing they either needed the resources they could get by selling the bike or they just did it for fun. That could be addressed on a on a societal level, but I think that's outside of the scope of these forums

@hcurtis

There are a few stolen bike posts on here every month, so probably significantly more happen that we don't even know about. They're usually not locked up or locked with cable locks or in a garage. Despite two being stolen in the location of which you haven't told us, this happens all the time. (more so in the summer for reasons previously mentioned)

It's good to have it reinforced that the locks we know are ineffective are still ineffective. But when you start talking about carrying around three locks, when we don't have any evidence that one properly locked U-Lock will suffice, we get weary

2 stolen bikes is a wave? Jesus.

My temperature is up 2 degrees today. Must mean I am gonna combust by the end of the day.

@hcurtis - if you wanted to be helpful you could reveal this single location where it would appear that one or two individuals keep returning, rather than perpetuate this chicken little "there's a huge crime wave descending on the whole city" thing.

I keep waiting for you to reveal you're a lock salesman or something.

"chicken little"

Ah, that's the phrase I was trying to think of. Right on the tip of my tongue. Thanks.

@Mikhail And we can ban pedestrians and bicyclist from roads and decrease danger for individuals.

You probably aren't serious, but it is doubtful that would reduce danger: More people driving = more people dying. Fact of life.

@orionz06 My temperature is up 2 degrees today. Must mean I am gonna combust by the end of the day.

Please post video. (note: You might have to set the camera up in advance.)

Thanks!!!

I smelled pot smoke on the way to work. Probably part of a drug epidemic wave, don't you think? Scary.

hcurtis, don't you get it? The forum members of Bike Pittsburgh (who are representing Bike Pittsburgh to the Internet) don't agree with you and don't want to hear or read your logic. You might think you are being helpful but since you are going against the status quo all you will receive in this thread is ridicule. Everything Bike PGH forum members have to say is the final word on all things bike related in Pittsburgh. For what it's worth, thanks for posting about what you have observed.

@Snail...

So 2 stolen bikes in one location is a crime wave?

@snail. You do have a point in that we are a pretty cohersive group and stick together. Partly a cliche thing, I suppose.

But then,IMO and in many folks here, the information in hcurtis's post is a bit short. And that he numbers his theses doesn't magically make it "logic," you know.

FWIW, I think the OP’s point of letting us know that they have witnessed a few bike thefts is a good thing. The rhetoric (from several posts) might be a little over the top, but the intentions of all posts are the same – lock up your bike with a good ulock.

Ok keep moving, nothing to see here…

i mean, i think it's silly to go out and buy three locks because someone cut a few cable locks. definitely go out and buy one lock (a u-lock) if all you have is a cable lock. that said, there does seem to be a big unnecessary pile-on. sure it's silly, but he's being super inflammatory or anything.

@mick Fact of the life? Where did you get this fact? Are you familiar with this http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx ?

Starting 2005 (and till 2009) population grew, number of licensed drivers grew, number of cars grew, but number of death declined for about 10,000 or about 22-23%.

PS Be very careful when you are trying to estimate behavior in a multi parameter system.

For what it's worth, when I saw the 2 bike cops who patrol E Liberty a few months ago and stopped to chat with them about coming to the Try-A-Bike event again this year, they wanted to know where I locked my bike and how I locked it. They warned me that bike thefts were on the rise in the East Liberty area and that cable locks and unsecured parts like quick-release wheels were very vulnerable.

They did not say anything about Downtown -- perhaps because that's not their beat and also not the location of our conversation -- but East Liberty and Downtown are the 2 places I'd head if I wanted to nab a bike (I don't) simply because that's where the greatest concentration of bikes parked outdoors seems to be and it'd probably be easy to ride off un noticed.

And, on the topic of class warfare, how about those transit cuts and their impact on peoples' ability to get around? Surely that will have an impact on the things people do to get the transportation they need.

@mikhail Starting 2005 (and till 2009) population grew, number of licensed drivers grew, number of cars grew, but number of death declined for about 10,000 or about 22-23%.

You can change the technolgy to decrease the danger - for the years you mention, that would likely be airbags.

You could also change traffic laws or enforcement. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened. I haven't been following this, but there have been some changes in the protocal for learners permits - that would make a difference.

There probably also could be forms of behavioral mod that wold make peole better drivers.

But given equivalent social, technical and legal enviroments, I'm fairly sure more drivers will lead to more traffic deaths. I'm pretty confident that making ped and bikers inot drivers would increase death statistics.

@Mick "You could also change traffic laws or enforcement." This is exactly the point and the reason for what I've said. If you don't enforce the law then it sends a clear message. And if you consider danger for the society of driving and thievery then they are very comparable.

And I am not sure that banning peds and bikers would increase death statistics. Because in real life you cannot change only one variable in a huge system. Especially in a system where we don't know/understand if variables are independent/dependent of each other.

I don't know of many (or any) deaths related to a bicycle being stolen

@snail: contrary posts or opinions are not the same as a shout-down. And I don't think it is accurate to describe this thread that way (take it from me, i've been on the other side of my share of threads).

In my opinion, the Board is responding to a perhaps unnecessarily excited level of rhetoric within the OP's posts.

Bikes get stolen practically everyday. OP's assertion that we are on the crest of some sort of crime wave is borderline relevant.

It is worthwhile to put the word out, and to have that reminder to be vigilant. The rhetoric beyond that point seems unnecessary and curious.

@Pierce And I know plenty of them. Back in Russia bikes got stolen owners tried to get them back and got bitten to death and a couple times plain shot to death.

I'm sorry, but anytime you back your assertion with "Back in Russia" and "bitten to death" it loses credibility and I have to question the relevancy

I thought we were talking about East Liberty. That being said, I don't think being bitten to death is a typical way to die in any part of the world

I guess I was fortunate when I recovered my bike to come out of it alive and without any bites.

I don't think our Pittsburgh bike thieves are hardened killers

To get back to your original point:

"And if you consider danger for the society of driving and thievery then they are very comparable. "

I think you're saying we should enforce both driving laws and laws around the protection of personal property, because they're both dangerous when not abided by?

I think dogs can bite people to death. Also if a perdon bites someone's carotid artery, the person could bleed to death quickly.

The dude in Florida that had his face almost bitten off survived. But I don't think he had a bike...

@Pierce I think credibility is there. I witnessed the society change from famous 1991 to 1995 (and I still have friends who are still alive back in Russia) and society went exactly this path. Just in slightly accelerated way. Just three years. It took about 12 years just to get a little bit back on a track. And I lived in Moldova also (my wife is from Moldova). This society went even in a worse way. And I see bad signs here almost everywhere.

PS Just talked to my younger daughter who is majoring in psychology and got a few advanced classes in social psychology. According to her thievery and dangerous driving are pretty comparable in the way I described from the point of view of social dynamics.

@Mikhail: so you postulate thievery and dangerous driving are comparable somehow, and that if we "accept" thievery, we are putting our society on a slippery slope to disintegration - Do I understand your position correctly?

If that is your position, then I've got bad news for you: this isn't Moldova circa 1991. The fact that we lock our houses, cars and bicycles is a tacit admission of thievery. It is our society's accommodation of thievery. We have bent to the reality and existence of thievery. And we did it a long time ago. This is not a new phenomenon.

So, while I respect you have a very unique perspective on these "social dynamics," in my opinion, they are not relevant.

Now, whether our society is on the highway to hell is another argument for another thread. But if we are - and we may be - it is not heralded by a couple of bikes being lifted in East Liberty, nor by our collective shrug of the shoulders.

I'm still waiting to hear where this outbreak has its origin. Where exactly did the thefts occur?

"I'm still waiting to hear where this outbreak has its origin. Where exactly did the thefts occur?"

In an East Liberty parking lot. East Liberty isn't that huge, so does it really matter which one? Here I will make a list for you.

1. Whole Foods

2. Trader Joes/ Performance bike

3. Home Depot

4. State Store/Trek

5. Target

They are all close enough that they can be considered one. Criminals can walk to any of those lots where bikes are on racks.

I know people on the Internet love to question this and that. Call people Chicken Little and whatever. I don't care to be honest. I am an older person and lived all over the place, so it doesn't matter what other's think. I know people and situations and know that bikes are gone after every day in East Liberty right now. It isn't some old news, it is actually something that is on the rise. You don't believe it? Who cares? I ride all over the city on a bike that has some flash, so I need to be concerned. I always have the nicest bike on the rack, so I need to take care of business. I now have a huge chain/lock and a NYC Forgetaboudit. I might add one more. Like I said, I ride a nice whip.

Enjoy all. Been riding around this city long before most of you were born. Forgot more than most of you kids will ever know. I said my peace. It wasn't for my benefit. Do as you please.

2 bikes were stolen at 5 locations? This makes less and less sense as it goes along. I'm sorry if this makes you feel attacked, hcurtis, but from your first post to your last, your information gets more and more curious.

This reluctance to simply share the locations of the thefts...

Earlier you claimed to not have seen or have specific knowledge of the means of theft - but prior to that you were pretty specific about the frame twist method...

You say it's not old news that bikes get stolen? Really? Check the archives here!

You are careful to list your qualifications in this last post: "I ride all over the city...", "lived all over the place...", "riding around this city long before most of you were born...", "forgot more than most of you kids will ever know..."

Nobody likes to be condescended to. There are a lot of really smart, really experienced, really involved people on this Board. They're not interested in attacking you, per se. They're just not in a panic over a couple of bikes going missing in East Liberty.

Seems to me this all boils down to "take reasonable precautions to ensure your bike doesn't get stolen", but reasonable for a >$1,500 bike differs from reasonable for a rusty $20 rummage-sale bike.

Yeah, be sure to carry around 16 pounds of locks and chains to lock up your fancy 16 pound bike.

And, I think chicken little must be one of those things you "forgot" if you don't see the connection. Thanks for your help.

It's also worth pointing out that if you have some fancy wunder bike, thieves may be less likely to grab it because they're more conspicuous with it and it's harder to turn over. It's a lot easier to try and sell that $20 rummage sale bike than it is to sell a crabon Cervelo

"2 bikes were stolen at 5 locations?"

Sorry, I no doubt could have to explain a little clearer for some... well you know. The locations listed are parking lots in East Liberty. They are all close enough to each other to take the same precautions, so the list isn't what was important, it is the general area that was. Lowlife thieves can walk you know. It isn't like people in Arlington walking down to the South Side Flats, which they don't do because they are too lazy due to the huge hill. We are talking about East Liberty area. Flat and even the lazy thieves can walk on level ground to steal a bike for their drug habits or whatever they seem to need and not work for.

I don't feel I am talking to many that would really be able to keep up. Maybe I will just say, make sure your bike is well locked if you are in the East Liberty area. I have told you that and a police cyclist told someone that here as well. Do as you please. It is too difficult to convey what has happened, due to... well maybe most just... ah, I will let it go. Means very little to me. I already upped my locks and probably will add more security, or throw a bait bike out there with some little gadget and find out where it goes. Could be fun to bust the lowlifes in the act.

Enjoy your rides as I do. I don't carry my locks because I am a work commuter and I carry a smaller lock when running errands, or will just walk in with my bike. I do that at banks and other stores often and no one seems to care.

Ugh. Just because we disagree with you and you give us vague and inconsistent details does not mean we lack the mental facilities to keep up with you.

If you had just told us outright where the hell the bikes were stolen from instead of dancing all around it and making us pick the location out of a hat, it would have been quite simpler.

Have you ever considered /why these /people are stealing bikes? It's easy to give them labels like "lazy" and "low life," but they're obviously working hard enough to make you buy more U-Locks. It's a matter of channeling that creative energy elsewhere and trying to foster an environment where they don't need to steal. (Even then, some probably will.)

It's much easier to resign them to just being bike thieving monsters though

I didn't think any of this was worth arguing about until now...why can't you just say which rack(s) had the thefts that you personally know about? Let me make like Judge Judy and just say, "tell me what you ACTUALLY saw, sir, not what you think you know."

I spend a lot of time in East Liberty - not just riding through. And in my opinion, these shopping areas are not interchangeable. Each has its own dynamic, its own type of customer, its own type of people about.

Regardless, like Tabby and Pierce (and myself, and salty, and...) we all just wanted to know from which of these lots the bikes were stolen. Location matters!

For someone who doesn't care what anyone thinks you sure are spending a lot of time and energy trying to convince us to think a certain way. Rarely has so much typing yielded so little worth reading.

Name names or shut up and go buy another 37 locks ofr your pos beater that you think is better than everyone else's bike. You're wasting our time.

From a Highland Park listserv home owner on Beverly Place:

"Neighbors,

If you keep bicycles in your garages, please don't leave your garage doors open, even when you are home. Kids are scouting the streets looking for open garages and this afternoon I witnessed a kid walk up a neighbor's driveway and come riding out of the driveway on an adult bike. The homeowner was weeding on the other side of the house while this happened and did not hear or see anything. 

Many thanks to my grass cutter, who drove off and found the kids and the bike on Bryant St. and brought back the bike. 

By the way, I called Zone 5 to report it and they didn't want to hear about it. I was going to ask if they could have a patrol car ride around the neighborhood on the weekend but they didn't let me get that far."

Don't most parking lots in slibby have cameras anyway? Target does, I believe.

+1 salty.

And Trek lets you bring your bikes inside.

@Hcurtis...

What are you trying to say or prove? Dumb it down for us please.

Rarely has so much typing yielded so little worth reading.

cburch just discovered the internets!

I was actually intending that to be relative to the rest of the interwebz. You weren't reading it mean spiritedly enough.

Oh Noes, it's spreading!

KDKA: Armed Robbery Reported In Lawrenceville

The robber didn’t get any cash, but did steal the victim’s purple mountain bike.

@cburch

"Rarely has so much typing yielded so little worth reading."

My first thought was, "and that's saying something for these forums" <

I guess I might as well report somewhere.

I live in Shadyside, directly across the fancy new bridge from the whole foods/trek complex; I can see the parking lot from my porch. I keep my bike on my back stoop, U-lock through the front wheel and frame. I went out tonight, came back around 12:10am, and my bike was, how-do-I-say, not in the original placement as I left it. There was no paint damage or otherwise, but it was shuffled around a bit.

Not jumping to any conclusions or making any judgments. Just a report, just in case.

Joe, This might be a good time to think about burglar-proofing your place. Often there are a few signs of "sniffing around" before a burglary happens.

If you can see the parking lot from your porch, others can see your porch from the parking lot.

I've stood on Joe's porch. There is nothing out of the ordinary about it. 25,000 houses in the city look just like it from the back. I'm tempted to agree, there's just a bit of an uptick in the need to be wary.

It's the bad side of a good thing: Interest in cycling is up, so there is increased demand for better bikes, and with it an increase in willingness to nab one that's nabbable.

Put some NRA and beware of dog stickers up.

Good advice all around. Thanks guys.