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Chains and Cassettes.

I need another chain, it seems like every few months I need one, and often I need a cassette because my chain was so bad. What am I doing wrong? Bad shifting? Or do chains go bad every so many miles. I do ride about 5k a year.


marvelousm3
2012-01-10 22:28:54

Chains are nominally supposed to last for about 750 miles (depending on your habits). Cassettes are supposed to have a few thousand miles in them.


It's not good to mismatch a worn chain with a new cassette and vice-versa. This is because the two wear into each other (so to speak); replacing one produces a mismatch. For example if your old chain is stretched out it will start to grind down the teeth on your new cassette, etc).


Periodically cleaning the chain is a good idea. I use one of those funny clamp-on gizmos from Park (a long time ago I used a pan of kerosene and a toothbrush). Lubrication is important; I've been told to lube every week, or every couple of hundred miles.


Others may have more technical suggestions.


ahlir
2012-01-10 22:45:29

Should I replace the cassette when I replace the chain and vice-versa.


marvelousm3
2012-01-10 22:48:23

The cassette should normally last for at least a season.


If you've been riding for a while with a stretched chain you may want to check the cassette teeth for damage. A clear symptom of worn cassette is skipping when you shift (once you've put on a new chain). If that's the case, change both.


Sheldon might have some pics and advice on this.


ahlir
2012-01-10 22:54:56

I am curious where the figure of chains lasting for 750 miles came from. Sounds to me like a chain manufacturer- like an athletic shoe store saying you should get new ones every 2 to 300 miles.

I change my chain when I notice shifting/ skipping problems - maybe over a year each time, or around 3000 miles. Cassettes maybe twice that long, and middle chainring only once in about 10 years, but may need it again in the next year or so.


helen-s
2012-01-10 23:47:26

I have over 3k on my single speed and don't have any problems with the chain or the cog, but then again it is a single speed chain (which I found out is different than my other chains) and the teeth on the cog are different (I am told). But anyway, I don't think a chain on a geared bike should wear out any sooner than once every two seasons, but I may be wrong.


stefb
2012-01-11 00:29:49

The primary thing that drives chain wear is cleanliness of the chain. Grit grinds out the pins on the chain. As they wear the chain gets longer. Your cassette can tolerate a bit of that but after a point the chain wears the sprockets to fit the longer chain.


It's worse around here because it's so wet and the streets are often fairly dirty.


Clean you chain in some manner. I've found the Park chain cleaner to be worth it's weight in gold.


And, as always, Sheldon has the answers:

http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html


mayhew
2012-01-11 00:45:20

3k is a good target for chain changing on multi-gear setups if you don't have a chain checker to know for sure. thanks to the heavier chains, ability to set wheel tension, lack of shifting ramps and longer teether on the chainring and cog, single/fixed can go a lot longer.

i

f you are buying high end cassettes get 2 or 3 chains and rotate them once a month. you'll get 2-3 times the life out of your very expensive cassette ($200-400) for the price of a couple moderately expensive chains ($50-75 each)


cburch
2012-01-11 00:48:23

One cog chain is thicker than 8, 9, 10 or 11 speed. But 750 for Shimano is awfully low. Some people prefer to have two chains and rotate for every 500 miles. Other people go with three. and other people go all the way with one. cleaning and lubrication is the key for long life for sprockets, chain and chain rings.


I personally have 10 speed shimano 105 system all around with about 2,200 miles on it. Still no problem.


2012-01-11 00:50:23

A chain should be changed when it needs to be changed, as measured by a tool made to measure chains or using the thumb-rule as per Sheldon: "The standard way to measure chain wear is with a ruler or steel tape measure. This can be done without removing the chain from the bicycle. The normal technique is to measure a one-foot length, placing an inch mark of the ruler at the side of one rivet, then looking at the corresponding rivet 12 complete links away."


LIkewise, automotive oil should be changed according to manufacturer, not according to the guy who changes your oil. A Honda Civic for example can go about 8000 miles between oil changes, although Jiffy Lube will try to tell you 3000 miles. Caveat Emptor.


Ha! That's crazy. I had no idea that people would cycle through chains to extend the life of the gears. Ya learn something everyday. :)


headloss
2012-01-11 01:05:22

By a chain checker, cheap and easy to use, and much more accurate than using a ruler.


If my chain is looking dirty I knock off the worst of it with a wire brush, wipe it down with a rag, lube, spin the cranks for a bit, let it sit for a bit, and repeat until it looks good enough.


SRAM says:Do not use acidic or grease-dissolving agents on the chain or cassette cogs! They will become brittle and can break under heavy load. Do not soak or store the chain or cassette in any cleaning product.

Clean chain and cassette only with biodegradable cleaners. Cleaning agent must be

rinsed off with water before lubricating chain. Apply chain lube after chain is completely dried. Regular lubrication will extend the chain’s service life.


Shimano:“Maintenance interval depends on the usage and riding circumstances. Clean regularly the chain with an appropriate chain cleaner. Never use alkali based or acid based solvents such as rust cleaners. If those solvent be used chain might break and cause serious injury.”


eric
2012-01-11 01:48:47

hm... I was not aware of the "don't soak your chain" advice. I've been soaking mine in some pretty nasty alkaline stuff recently, based on some advice from the last time we had a thread like this.


So are SRAM/Shimano just covering their asses or should I replace my chain and stop doing that?


Also agreed 750 miles is way too low. I have ~3500 on my crosscheck and it's getting close but still within tolerance.


salty
2012-01-11 02:43:38

@Salty, from a chemistry perspective, I have no idea.

I would assume that any negative effect would take a long time to occur, most likely exceeding the life of the metal regardless of cleaning method. If in doubt, check the MSDS for the solvent you are using. If it doesn't warn of possible metal fatigue, I'd assume that SRAM/Shimano are just covering their asses. I've used simple-green on much more sensitive equipment than bicycle chains and I've never come across a reason not to use it. As for cleaning with kerosene/wd40, that seems to be the norm among motorcyclists... the only exception being certain types of motorcycle chains with seals that could be dissolved by harsh chemicals; bicycle chains lack such a seal.


Most likely, the reason that they say not to use such chemicals is because it more than likely dissolves any protectant coating that they apply to the chain/gears. I'd be willing to bet that it has more to do with something along those lines than an actual danger to the metal itself. Strip away the chemical protectant, and the chain is more likely to rust which would result in premature failure (especially with today's thinner 9/10/11 speed chains). On a similar note, basic household dishwashing soap will strip wax off of a car which is why you should always use a specified car washing soap... I assume that it falls under that type of scenario.


On the other hand: http://www.mechanicsupport.com/aircraft_cleaning.html


headloss
2012-01-11 03:19:37

I use my Finish Line Dry Teflon lube to clean my chain. Surprisingly it removes caked on crap better than the chain cleaning fluid I got at Performance (which seems like just rebottled and diluted Simple Green). Best of both worlds, right? Clean while lubing, and lubes while cleaning. When in doubt, add more, wipe it down, and add more.


rice-rocket
2012-01-11 10:17:36

I use carb and choke cleaner (chlorine free) or mineral spirits to clean chains and cassettes. Reasonable immersion in the solvents is fine. I am on 3k on the bike I purchased in April (10spd 105) and it appears to be still good using a chain checker.


I am using, now, a lube that I am T&E'ing for a company and am lubing every 200 miles or so with much riding along the river where dust is kicked up on the chain.


750 miles is unacceptable IMHO.


orionz06
2012-01-11 13:21:05

Being unfamiliar with the details of modern tech, on cassettes, can individual cogs be replaced when worn, as they can on old-timey freewheels, instead of shtcanning the whole assembly?


edmonds59
2012-01-11 13:29:40

generally, only the smaller two are independent and the rest of the cluster is welded or riveted together.


headloss
2012-01-11 13:42:50

DO NOT soak a chain in Simple Green. This issue went around the industry awhile back. It will crack aluminum and steel if you soak them in it. Simple Green actually makes an airplane specific mix for just such a reason.


You can use it on a chain just fine. I do. But don't soak it.


mayhew
2012-01-11 14:41:50

nm


stefb
2012-01-11 14:48:24

"DO NOT soak a chain in Simple Green."

Instead of throwing out my old cassette, I'm totally going to soak for a month if need be just for fun. Yay science! (of course, I doubt anything will happen since I won't actually be putting any mechanical strain on it, but who knows, maybe I'll actually see something cool happen! I could always beat the cogs with a hammer I guess LOL).


On a side note, my 2008 Gary Fisher Piranha drivetrain failed prematurely, so maybe there was a bad batch of components that they used? I'm not sure what year your Portland is, but it's a possibility maybe?


headloss
2012-01-11 15:03:20

Apologies. I forgot to mention the "Chain Wear Indicator" tool, which is really the way to diagnose chain wear issues. The tool is a piece of metal that tells you when the stretch is >0.5% or >0.75%. The latter is supposed to mean it's time to change.


In my own experience you can actually get to 0.5% by ~750 miles. And definitely >0.75% by about 2000 miles. Of course, chain cleanliness and use pattern will matter. And this probably applies to the narrow chains you'd use with derailleurs.


ahlir
2012-01-11 16:22:24

@Ahril

Yes, 0.5% by 750 is possible. usually it involves a lot dirt riding and no cleaning, no lubricating. Or using "wet" lubricant and riding a lot in very dusty conditions. For the last one -- I have a friend that did exactly this. he just added heavy oil before any ride and no cleaning.


2012-01-11 19:02:58

generally, only the smaller two are independent and the rest of the cluster is welded or riveted together.


thi hasn't been my experience (with lower end shimano and sram freehub components). my 105 cluster now has two small cogs that are one piece, and every other sprocket is a single piece with a spacer in between.


not that i would want to replace them individually. or even know how.


edited to add: also, a lot of cassettes nowadays are meant to work as a single unit, so that the ramps line up just so when all the sprockets are properly aligned. you would presumably have to get a sprocket from the same type of cassette.


hiddenvariable
2012-01-11 19:45:18

when you get into the REALLY high end of cassettes they can be a single CNCed piece. pretty amazing machining.


for example:



cburch
2012-01-11 20:06:42

I think the 750 mile figure refers to the distance at which you should replace your chain before it starts affecting the cassette. If you don't mind changing the cassette, you can keep using the same chain much longer than that. But if you then put a new chain on it it will skip on the small cogs.

The idea of rotating between two chains every 500 miles or so is a good one -- each chain will stretch about the same amount, so the cassette wear and the chain wear will match, and you won't get skipping. I'd never thought of that. Then you'll get two chains worth of wear out of a cassette, at the cost of having to take off your chain every so often, and having a dirty chain hanging in your garage.


jonawebb
2012-01-11 20:13:43

hm... I was not aware of the "don't soak your chain" advice. I've been soaking mine in some pretty nasty alkaline stuff recently, based on some advice from the last time we had a thread like this.


Alkali means the opposite of acidic. I don't know what you've been soaking your chain in, but I doubt it is very alkaline. Paint thinner, for example, is what I soak my chain in. It doesn't have any appreciable amount of water in it, so you can't really measure the pH, but I can promise it is neither acidic nor basic. An example of an alkaline solution one might use for cleaning is water mixed with lye or potash. Such a solution is great for cleaning glassware, or for conducting neat redox reactions on your metal bicycle parts. "Check it out, my chain is bubbling!"


dwillen
2012-01-11 22:08:30

fyi that cassette i posted is a single piece of machined stainless steel for the 1st 8 cogs, the last two and the locking are individual parts. it also retails for about $400. this is why people bother with chain swapping.


cburch
2012-01-11 22:13:29

My advice speaks specifically and only to Simple Green. Don't soak your chain in it.


mayhew
2012-01-11 22:47:03

My chain usually cost around $60 and cassette about $120, am I buying to cheap of parts. And I usually ride in 2 and um.... 8, or the middle in the front and smallest in the back does that ruin the chain and/or cassette.


marvelousm3
2012-01-12 00:21:37

maybe my experience is limited, but I would not consider a $60 chain or a $120 cassette to be cheap at all. I usually use a Sram PC-971 chain for $20 and and PC-970 cassette for $30... I generally get around 2k and 4k miles out of each, respectively.


dmtroyer
2012-01-12 00:44:10

2 x 8 shouldn't be thAt bad. But avoiding cross chaining should also help extend the life of a chian I would think.


marko82
2012-01-12 01:32:37

I still haven't figured out what is cross chaining, I figured if the front is in 2 it doesn't matter what the rear is in. But I'm probably wrong


marvelousm3
2012-01-12 01:42:31

@cburch: The XX cassettes are incredibly tasty IRL, too. Feel so light that it's unreal.


reddan
2012-01-12 01:43:30

@Mr M No way is that cheap for cassettes or chains. $60 for cassettes for me, $30 for chains.


Cross chain is typically considered big/big or small/small. With a triple you might be able to put the chain at an extreme angle in the middle ring but you'd be hard pressed. And really cross chaining is a second or third order issue.


mayhew
2012-01-12 01:52:50

What model chain are you getting for $60? I agree that's ridiculous, $15-20 is more like it for 8 speed.


salty
2012-01-12 02:04:28

A wide range of SRAM chains.


Like most components, individuals pick their price points. Like others, I am a cheapskate, so I go as cheap as possible with SRAM stuff. Of course, I'm only commuting, so performance isn't a factor. Back when I pretended to be a racer, I was willing to drop a few extra dollars on my drive train (still never paid $60 for a chain, though).


bjanaszek
2012-01-12 02:15:31

I know the 10 speed stuff is expensive but he said he has 8 speed - the 890 on that list is still only $38. Based on Mr. Marv's other posts about the heaviest possible wheels I was assuming he's not looking to shave a few grams off his chain...


salty
2012-01-12 02:50:41

he's on a portland it's a 9 speed.


dmtroyer
2012-01-12 03:23:14

If you ride in the middle ring and 11 or 12 tooth cog all the time it is going to wear things out more quickly than finding a similar gear in the big ring and a bigger cog.


eric
2012-01-12 03:32:10

I defintley try to move around on my gearing to not wear out the middle chainring and the middle of the cassette more quickly, keeping in mind cross chaining.

mr. M, how are your knees? I almost never get out to the end of my cassette unless its a long uninterrupted downhill.


helen-s
2012-01-12 04:00:40

@Salty, I was reading up on the chemicals listed in that MSDS, check out this quote from the wikipedia article on sodium hydroxide: "Sodium hydroxide is corrosive to some metals, e.g. aluminum, which produces flammable hydrogen gas on contact." It goes on to discuss how strong bases react with aluminum.


Or better yet

http://www2.uni-siegen.de/~pci/versuche/english/v44-10.html


2-Butoxyethanol also reacts with aluminum. The rest of the chemicals are ok (not that it matters considering the reactions from the other two). 2-Butoxyethanol is also in Simple Green, and the reason I suspect, that you don't want aluminum to soak.


With that in mind, I definitely wouldn't soak any aluminum. I think at the low concentrations, you are probably ok to keep using the Super Clean though. That said, the Castrol probably isn't the best choice.


headloss
2012-01-12 05:42:29

I did take a chemistry class or two once upon a time, Dan... :)


Redox chemistry is usually the first semester of freshman general chemistry :) You should know better!


The pH of this nasty crap I've been using is 13. I should probably get rid of this stuff, eh? The rumor is it's banned or something.


Oh fun. So you HAVE been soaking your chain in lye. I thought the conclusion of the previous thread was to soak it in simple green or something. I still recommend paint thinner/hexanes.


Not sure what alloys bike chains are made of, but sodium hydroxide will oxidize aluminum, zinc, lead, tin, and beryllium, along with most metalloids. At the very least, please stop exposing your bike parts and skin to it :)


dwillen
2012-01-12 06:03:55

Have I mentioned how much I love this board! :)


BTW, I didn't realize that Simple Green made a Bicycle specific blend.


headloss
2012-01-12 06:10:17

I did start wearing gloves when I use it - maybe if I had read the label first I would have realized how caustic it was.


AFAICT my chains and cassettes aren't high end enough to contain any aluminum though... I'll stop using the Castrol stuff regardless but it shouldn't have really hurt anything, right? I already have a new chain in my basement, maybe I'll just put it on so i don't have to worry.


salty
2012-01-12 07:01:41

I'll also point out that buying a $60 chain every 750 mi equals 12.5¢ a mile - not terribly economical, that's basically as much as it costs for gas for an economy car.


salty
2012-01-12 07:08:28

My knees are fine, I've been riding in that gearing for a couple of years now. I'm wondering if thats why my chains and cassettes fail.


marvelousm3
2012-01-12 12:04:58

Bike manufacturers make "1x8's" and "1x9's", which is effectively the same as Mr. M is doing with the geared bike by leaving it mostly in the middle front chainring. Can't be that bad. Just completely avoid being on big in front AND back, or small in front and back.

Also if you're really getting into the finest points of performance, the drivetrain is the most efficient, i.e. least friction losses, when your chainline is the straightest, small ring in front to big cog in back, middle to middle, big in front to small in back. This is one reason single speeds feel that little tight performance edge, dead straight chainline (assuming properly set up). One of the most efficient mechanical systems in existence.


edmonds59
2012-01-12 12:18:48

"AFAICT my chains and cassettes aren't high end enough to contain any aluminum though."


I was thinking more along the lines of the gears... caustic substances will corrode steel but not as readily, I was focusing on the "weakest link" you might say

From what I can tell, 2-Butoxyethanol, is a rust inhibitor in steel and is safe enough on aluminum that Simple Green uses it for their bike specific formula. All in all, I think you are fine using what ever so long as you don't soak it, as Chris pointed out. Even then, I'm not sure that the solution itself is a big deal with out applying a catalyst such as an electrical charge to your soak.


headloss
2012-01-12 13:50:58

It's amazing that I can but 5k a year on a bike and still have 0 mechanical knowledge, or even basic shifting skills. I should just buy a single speed.


marvelousm3
2012-01-12 13:54:21

In the past I have used auto wheel cleaner on entire bikes, the "aluminum safe" formula. Then I use wd40 on the chain and other moving parts to drive water out (not for lubrication) and wipe everything down. Looks sparkly new. Then just put everything away and let it dry. I just re-lube everything sometime before the next ride. I've been doing that on my cheapass mtn bike after every ride for 10 years +, haven't had a failure.


edmonds59
2012-01-12 14:02:41

@mr marvelous, nah... riding is the important part. Besides, you learn along the way. :)

As for buying a single speed... can't have too many bikes! :P


headloss
2012-01-12 14:28:42

As for buying a single speed... can't have too many bikes!

^That.


I've noted that chain life on my rando recumbent is fairly long; I usually go 3000-4000 miles before replacing (and could likely go further, as I often replace well before hitting the end on ye olde Park chain wear indicator). I use mid-range chains, usually SRAM 971, and ride on terrain ranging from clean pavement to miles-n-miles of limestone grit. I clean infrequently (once every few months), and lube when it squeaks or after a long ride.


My supposition is that, because it's actually 2.5 chains, each individual link gets less wear per mile traveled than a bike with a standard length of chain. I suppose it's a similar effect to buying a couple of chains and rotating them every month.


reddan
2012-01-12 14:39:56

details later - but from the "are you shitting me?" dept:




salty
2012-01-12 23:41:42

Just get a single speed, mr marv. I am awful at shifting. I stay in the same gear on my road bike. The teeth on the 4th smallest cog are worn down


stefb
2012-01-13 00:48:42

If I hadn't spent so much money on that stupid rim project that I don't need, want, or will like I would have a single speed already.


marvelousm3
2012-01-13 01:27:50

Oy.


I consider $20 per chain to be about right (if not a trifle expensive). $40-60 for a cassette seems like enough.


I'm pretty religious about the lubing, not so much about the cleaning. (Sorry, Mom.)

I accept that spending more might get you a longer-lasting component.


My mental math isn't up to truly validating the chain-switching paradigm, especially with cheapo cassettes. Though I see how it helps the cassette survive.


ahlir
2012-01-13 01:31:05

I don't do shit to my bikes except ride them. I am a terribly lazy person. My bike would seize up from too much grit if cburch didn't take care of the chain and other parts.


stefb
2012-01-13 02:53:59

I guess that I should admit that I don't do shite to my chain. The chain and cassette that came on my 2005 Kona Dew is still the chain and cassette on it... I might have cleaned it twice and lubed it maybe a half dozen times. The chain is still passing, amazingly, but the gear teeth are a bit worn for wear. On the other hand, my 2008 Gary Fisher which has, at best, 10% of the use that my Kona gets, has already had the chain replaced along with two chain rings.


headloss
2012-01-13 03:58:45

Yeah, stefb, but you can afford to be lazy. You've got cburch well trained to take care of it for you. :)


By the way, congratulations to you and Colin on the pregnancy. I hope everything goes well for you this time. So far it seems like it is. I hope it continues for you.


cdavey
2012-01-13 04:00:18

Well, I don't ever remember snapping a completely undamaged chain just by pedaling - until I was heading up Dobson tonight. I coasted down through the dip and just stood up to crank up the other side when it happened. Given how forcefully I lurched forward, I'm glad I was going uphill otherwise I might have been OTB.


Geez. I know a sample size of one doesn't prove anything, and it was a few months and a few hundred miles since I soaked that chain, but... crazy timing.


salty
2012-01-13 05:44:38



dwillen
2012-01-13 06:01:40

We all could use a cburch in our house to handle all our biking needs, our commute would go so much smoother.


marvelousm3
2012-01-13 08:20:14

Thanks cdavey and mr marv!


Sorry to hear about your chain, Todd. I have never had that happen to me. Off topic: I am an advocate for always running a front brake with a fixed gear bike. If the chain snaps in traffic, what do you do?


stefb
2012-01-13 10:41:38

@dwillen, LMFAO!


@salty, yeah sucky timing! I really doubt that it had anything to do with a caustic chemical slowly but surely removing surface layers of metal from your chain though. More than likely, the thermal effects of metal shrinking in the cold played a role; my guess is that the chain links and the pins holding them together are disimilar metals with different rates of expansion/contraction.

As for the forceful jerking forward, at least your knee missed the handlebars! I'll never forget the first time a chain broke on me (also while climbing a hill).


headloss
2012-01-13 11:24:19

I had the Shimano chain on my newest "bestest" bike snap like that on me just like that right at the beginning of a Weds night ride last fall, a pin failure. The thing had <500 mi on it and had never even been cleaned, let alone soaked. I think some of this new ultralight "high performance" gear is just engineered TOO finely. Unless you're a sponsored racer or something it's just nonsense.

Also, as long as I'm curmudgeoning on this, after living with this new bike for a while, I find it completely unecessary to have 10 cogs on the cassette. I shift no fewer than 2 or 3 cogs at a time to get the gear I need at any given time. I think for the average person this technological development could have easily stopped at 8.


edmonds59
2012-01-13 11:46:40

Unless you put it on backwards. Or tried to reuse a pin.


jonawebb
2012-01-13 13:17:29

shimano chains are dumb. i hate their stupid break away pin.


cburch
2012-01-13 15:37:18

shimano chains are dumb. i hate their stupid break away pin


The original 7900 Dura-Ace chain came from Shimano with a master link installed, but I read that pro teams didn't see the need for it so they quit selling it. I've been using KMC missing links with Shimano DA-7900 chains with no problems at all. I'm sure you can use them with other Shimano chains too. They say you should buy the Shimano specific one so I did and you have to make sure you get the right width since 10sp chains are narrower than 9 speed.


I've also used Sram chains in a Shimano 9 speed setup as well (mostly 105 stuff) and had no problems.


jeffinpgh
2012-01-13 16:20:34

Oooh. When these things need replacing, if I go retrograde from 10 spd to 9, can I save money and get more durable bits? Disregarding whether or not the brifters would work optimally, which I would ignore.


edmonds59
2012-01-13 16:29:32

geez, reading chain reviews over on mtbr.com is kind of sobering... could be self-selecting but man there are a lot of terrible reviews based on reports of chains snapping, both sram and shimano.


fwiw, this was an sram chain, pc-971. it has their "power link" (hand-removable master link) which is not what broke - so none of the pins should have ever been tampered with, unless some bike shop employee did it for some incomprehensible reason, which i doubt.


i agree with edmonds "curmudgeoning", and i think there's good reason behind it. adding cogs means the chains do keep getting thinner and thus some combination of weaker or more expensive (or both!). i'd be happy with a quality 8 speed setup but i don't think it exists anymore and even 9 seems to be disappearing.


salty
2012-01-13 19:00:26

" i'd be happy with a quality 8 speed setup"


+1


I wonder if an 8spd internal with a single-speed chain would work with an older double or triple front chainring set up.


headloss
2012-01-13 21:06:37

Everyone's favorite curmudgeons at Rivendell have both cassettes (and freewheels!) and chains (though the chains are "generic" in that they get what they get and call it good).


I would suspect the IRD cassettes are pretty good, though I've not read any reviews of them.


bjanaszek
2012-01-13 21:10:54

It's true that you end up spending most of your time in just a few gears, but there's a bit more to it.


I went through a period of using both a 10-speed and a 7-speed. I preferred the 10-speed because it lets you trim your gear and better match your effort to the road. It's typically a small difference but it's more pleasant than having to work a gear that's either a bit too hard or a bit too easy. Having a nice derailleur (Ultegra in my case) helps.


ahlir
2012-01-13 22:55:41

The little experience i have with IRD cassettes would make me recommend to others to stay away from them, unless you like your shifting to be a constant source of annoyance.


Some people much smarter than me claim the newer 10 speed chains are the ~strongest ever~ due to improved materials, riveting process and decreased leverage on the pin due to the narrower width.


eric
2012-01-14 01:26:09

I was told that sram made better components than shimano I'm not sure if thats true but as I replace parts I replace it with sram (my chain and cassette so far) thats why I'm surprised the wear out so fast.


marvelousm3
2012-01-14 01:30:27

"claim the newer 10 speed chains are the ~strongest ever~ "


I don't doubt that in some cases that is true. In fact, I'd hope that some serious advances have been made over the years. The only problem is determing which chains actually are made of better materials and what is just marketing hype... as Salty pointed out, the mtbr site doesn't give much hope. I can say one thing for certain, even if I'm relatively dumber than some people... a cheap chain made with more metal is probably stronger than a cheap chain with less metal. So in the end, only the best chains made of these newer materials will be advantageous while those using the cheap chains will see more breakage since the industry insists on more speeds. :(


headloss
2012-01-14 01:54:44

"Strength" as calculated with a software program or tested in a lab under ideal conditions is one thing, reliability, durability, and longevity in the real world is another thing entirely. Seems like the industry has gone a long way in one direction.


edmonds59
2012-01-14 03:31:29

Well, I definitely waited too long on the chain, the new one is skipping pretty bad so I'm gonna need a new cassette too. Maybe I'll try this two-chain approach, that sounds pretty reasonable.


salty
2012-01-17 16:50:47

I don't get the two-chain approach. Run one chain until it hits 1/16", then replace it with another. Repeat. It's a lot easier than swapping frequently, and you should get three or four chains to a cassette.


If you run multiple chains much past 1/16", the cassette is likely to wear unevenly and you'll have problems anyway, and you'll be doing more damage to your chainrings.


johnwheffner
2012-01-17 18:17:22

If you replace your chain every say 500 miles you pay the cost of a chain / 500 miles per mile. But if you alternate say two chains and replace them and the cassette after say 3000 miles you will pay the cost of two chains + cassette / 3000 miles per mile. So if the cost of the cassette is less than four times the cost of a chain it costs less overall.

You do end up with more wear on the chainwheel, I guess, but I have a really hard time imagining that is significant. I rode a bike, quite a bit, for 30 years with the same double and never had any problems.


jonawebb
2012-01-17 19:22:06

I don't get the chain swapping, either. a stretched chain will expedite cassette wear, but even if you're replacing your chain every 500 miles you'll have to replace your cassette eventually.


dmtroyer
2012-01-17 19:32:49

Should I be using the granny gear? I rarely use it anymore even on really hard climbs, I just place the back in the easiest gear. Can that affect the life of the chain and cassette?


marvelousm3
2012-01-17 20:03:21

"Can that affect the life of the chain and cassette?"


Even on the middle chain ring, you want to avoid the extremes on the cassette from what I've read. So, I'm guessing that it could contribute. If you don't use the granny-gear, maybe you should just swap out for a double set up?


headloss
2012-01-17 22:39:00

I've have been considering a compact double that's on my list of upgrades for the Portland.


marvelousm3
2012-01-17 23:57:25

must be my lucky day - i got a shiny new take-off hg50 from biketek for $20 (almost half off).


although, it's an 11-25 rather than the 12-25 i had, so now i have to go find a place where i can use 123"... lol.


salty
2012-01-18 01:40:28