DinoRIDE, Third Friday of the Month, 5/18/12 6:00pm

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Pierce
Participant
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Remember the old days of meeting up at Dippy The Dino and then going on a merrily ride across the city? We didn’t know where we were going or who we would be riding with, but we knew we were going to enjoy ourselves and have a good time.

It was a time when the monotony of our normal lives would fade away as we ticked off the miles under the sunset and city lights.

Join me in continuing that tradition on the third Friday of each month at Dippy the Dino. (5/18 this month) Meet at 6:00pm, leave 6:30. Lights and helmets encouraged. Cheerful spirit mandatory. (Exceptions made on site)

Exercise not just your mind and body, but also your freedom of assembly. Don’t let out our tradition become extinct. (… like the Dinosaur?)


CPollack
Participant
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Deal!


stefb
Participant
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Can we have a ride like this every Friday?


myddrin
Participant
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I’ll be there if I can…


stefb
Participant
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I will personally be out of town this friday, but I do think people should show up and have a good time.


Pierce
Participant
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I think if there is one every week, the turnout will be less. I also don’t want to commit to showing every week, especially since I just found out I’ll already be cycling 25 miles on Friday in the heat of the day.


stefb
Participant
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So does anyone wanna do a ride this Friday? Weather looks nice. There uses to be rides every Friday and attendance was still high.


Pierce
Participant
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Stefb, can you recruit for both a ride tomorrow and next week’s ride on Facebook?


stefb
Participant
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I could try


buffalo buffalo
Participant
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still meeting at 6? i’m interested, and might be able to recruit some others as well.


stefb
Participant
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To leave at 6:30, yes


Erica
Participant
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send me a facebook link, and I can invite a bunch of people.


Marko82
Participant
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I’m in.


stefb
Participant
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I didn’t create an event. I am just passing along info in posts that there are going to be people meeting for a ride.


Pierce
Participant
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I’ll be passing this week, but I hope to see some people next week


salty
Participant
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This ride kind of kicked my butt but it was super cool. Great idea Pierce and thanks for running with it for this week Stef!


stefb
Participant
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Thank you guys for coming out. That was a bit faster than I would have liked to have gone, but sometimes I need to go faster. I hope I can make it next week.


salty
Participant
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B.S.
Participant
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Great ride, good company, logging miles, what more could one ask for? Oh yea, finally got that beer I desiring!!


buffalo buffalo
Participant
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Thanks to all, especially stef and pierce for logistics and marko for dealing with my tube. (I owe you a beer.)

I wouldn’t have asked for a ride that long or fast–that was probably my longest ride in years–but I’m glad to have done it…

Now, about that beer…


Pierce
Participant
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It’s nice getting credit for just posting some nostalgic drivel :P


stefb
Participant
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Marko told me that he received an email from nick (I was either not on the mailing list or I deleted it) that flock of cycles is no more. Nick, I hope you can comment on this and let us know what we can say and not say about flock style rides. I would be happy to continue to meet with people on Fridays. I worry about the legal stuff, though there were no waivers for a year or so.


StuInMcCandless
Participant
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My understanding is that we cannot use the name “Flock of Cycles” in association with a ride unless we sign waivers…which I have a stack of.


Pierce
Participant
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What’s in a name?

I appreciate what Flock is trying to do, but over legalizing and organizing for essentially riding around the city is a cumbersome process.

I’d rather ride with friends than not in fear of law suits. Hundreds of rides happen across the country and I’m not aware of law suits that result from injuries sustained during them.

I’m willing to say “Hey, why don’t we ride bikes today?” If somebody wants to sue me for that, so be it


Nick D
Participant
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Yes, Stef, the rumor is true. There will be an official statement made once the details are sorted out.

Basically, the “Flock of Cycles” name cannot be used without board approval. All that is required for approval is that annual waivers are signed. This was decided because it not only helps build the brand of Flock as well as expanding it’s portfolio of events, but it also would cover ride organizers legally. In my mind, I though this was a great opportunity for people of the community to be able to do things without the worry of liability.

Since there has only been five people to date (three events–Try a Bike, Bakery Tour, and Tour Pittsburgh by Bicycle) who have taken advantage of this, the decision has been made to no longer offer this.

The resistance to Flock of Cycles (purely because it is a legal entity) also was a factor in this decision.

Personally, it’s upsetting to have to do this but after weighing the options, it seems to make the most sense. However, if the community rallies to support the org, I would happily do what I can to help and pass it along to who ever is up for the challenge.

Peirce, if you do some research, you will find that these type of lawsuits have happened. They may not be common, but the chance of them happening is enough for my to be unwilling to put my name on anything that may cause me to lose everything I’ve worked for in life.


Richw
Participant
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Well that sucks. I’m still planning on being at dippy next Friday evening anyways, still


Pierce
Participant
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Nick, I understand your concern about financial security. Because I have so few assets, I’m willing to take the risk.

That being said, even if I did have assets, I still doubt I would be willing to change how I live or what I do because of the risk of being sued. I tend to be headstrong that kind of way.

On an unrelated note, do the people who are attending this feel confident enough in themselves to do it again without my presence? I in inadvertently schedule a movie night at 7pm the same Friday, so even if we left at 6:30 I’d probably try and steer us towards my next destination and then I’d peel off.


Nick D
Participant
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Peirce, at the time it was about more than just my financial security, but I also had to consider that of a handful of employees who could lose their jobs if some freak accident/frivolous lawsuit were to take place.

Honestly, I don’t see how signing a paper/getting a paper signed is considered a change in how you live. Pretty much every service/product/event has some type of terms/conditions/waiver or liability.


buffalo buffalo
Participant
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I’ll try, but I’m going out of town on Sunday, so it’ll depend on how many loose ends I still have dangling.


Pierce
Participant
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It’s more than the piece of paper though. It’s giving credence to the idea that if I want to ride bikes with some people I just randomly met up with, I need to have them sign a piece of paper to legally protect me.

It starts the conversation off as “Hey, I want to trust you, but I cannot. I cannot trust your estate either. I need to protect other things.” The whole thing just puts a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.

It’s what the piece of paper represents, which is a society that increasingly takes absolutely no responsibility for their own actions or legitimate accidents.

It’s a society that’s increasingly concerned with mitigating that lack of responsibility with over designed legal protections and infrastructure. Instead of responsible drivers, we have impenetrable cages with a complete blanket of air bags. Instead of healthy diets, we have lipator. Instead of condoms, we have trillions of dollars in AIDS research. Risk is part of life. Nothing is fail proof. Why do we need waivers to point out the obvious?

For an organization, I can understand, but for a group of people getting together to ride bikes, it sucks. I mean heck, what if everybody showed up with a waiver requiring everybody else to sign it? They signed a waiver agreeing not to sue the org, but did they sign a waiver agreeing not to sue a person in the ride? Imagine everybody bringing a waiver for everybody else to sign.

Signing the paper or having to have one signed is an acceptance of this way of life

When Flock was around, I willingly signed the paper. But now that it’s not, I’m willing to take the risk and not have to go through that hassle, record keeping, and paying for insurance


Pierce
Participant
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Additionally, if one was to consult a lawyer and say “Should I get liability protection to protect me and my org from lawsuits?” wouldn’t it always be in the interest for the lawyer to say yes?

I imagine he’d be liable if he gave advice to somebody else saying they weren’t liable. See what I mean?

Kind of like hospitals always say to call 911/go to the emergency room. It doesn’t serve them at all to say “Ah, you’ll probably be alright.”


Nick D
Participant
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I think you are missing my point. If you are interested, I’d happily talk about it over a lunch at a vegan-friendly venue.

Additionally, if the attorney isn’t getting paid, he/she gains nothing from recommending insurance.


stefb
Participant
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I don’t think I can attend this week, as I am seeing the suicide machines that evening!


edmonds59
Participant
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Pierce, you may be overstating it a bit. I think if individuals simply put out a statement saying “I’m going to be at such and such place at x time and go for a ride, anyone is welcome”, they wouldn’t be any more exposed to liability than anyone is at any given time.

Flock was an attempt to provide a little greater degree of organization than that for organized rides, better support for newbies, kind of a ride oriented adjunct to Bike Pgh! itself. In the process of organizing those folks exposed themselves to a greater than normal degree of liability and you can’t blame them for trying to protect themselves to a small degree. Also if the attendance and volunteer assistance at things was as stated, I can’t blame them for just bagging the whole thing. It’s not a party if people don’t come.

I would be interested in knowing how other similar groups approach such things. I am thinking in particular about a thing I’ve heard about in S.F., the S.F. Bike Party. They have some crazy a** rides, don’t seem to insist on helmets or blinkies, and I don’t know if they have a waiver policy. http://sfbikeparty.wordpress.com/ If I get time maybe I’ll try and make a contact.


rsprake
Participant
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For what it’s worth, my father and law’s Miata car club has insurance and the members pay $30 a year in club dues. No waivers.


buffalo buffalo
Participant
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The waiver is probably part of the club dues. Pretty sure it was when I was involved in the PGH Triathlon Club (in its first year), though I’m not anymore.


Benzo
Participant
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I know a lot of cycling ‘clubs’ also collect a small amount of dues, have a group insurance plan, and a waiver.


eMcK
Participant
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I think original appeal of Flock was the lack of fees, waivers etc. A ride with people who aren’t going to behave like critical massholes. Casual, yet safe.

Once it got all codified most people seemed to lose interest.

I personally have no interest in signing waivers to ride my bike on public roads in the city. If money was spent on permits, closing roads, signing a route, and providing aid stations and tech support I would feel differently. Group rides happen all over the US, all the time without waivers, I completely understand why they make folks wary.


Erica
Participant
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will the pace/route be about the same difficulty level as the flock party rides?


Marko82
Participant
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RF, we went a little faster last week because there were only six of us, and we were all fairly strong riders. I think the pace will by adjusted week-to-week to the level of the riders that show up – just like we did last year. In practice, the more people that show up, the slower the ride.

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