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disc commuter?

ok, my last attempt to build a new bike went way off the rails with some $5k wunderbike. but, one positive from that discussion was i got a nice set of panniers that work on my current bike with no heel strikes - i love them and it's added a lot of utility for (reasonably) cheap.


still, the more i think about it (and ride in the rain, like last night) i really want disc brakes. I think that's the only real "must" - IGH and belt drive are out, dynamo is a "maybe".


Also, I'd like to build the bike myself, both for the experience of it, and so I get exactly what I want. I know it will cost a little more, and disqualifies some pretty nice bikes that don't come frame only - the kona sutra is pretty close to what I'm looking for. But, all the pre-built bikes in this genre, it has drop bars and road gearing, I think I want moustache bars and MTB gearing. I know I could buy a full bike and swap parts but by the time I'm done it's sounding expensive anyways.


Unfortunately, I can't find too many bare frames - Salsa Doublecross DC is about the only thing I can come up with. There's the Gunnar Fastlane but it's way too expensive. Surly is coming out with a disc trucker in Feb which sounds a lot like what I want - should I just wait?


salty
2011-09-20 19:50:21

Some Double Cross.


rsprake
2011-09-20 20:01:06

Without looking, is the geometry of any of the bikes without the bars you want such that just adding the bars would be an issue? Seems like finding the bike that has the most features and adding the rest might be easy.


orionz06
2011-09-20 20:19:00

Hmm, I thought the Kona was touring bike with a triple?


Swapping out drop bars (or any bars, really) for m-bars may be more complicated than just swapping them out. Ideally, you start with basic levers and bar end shifters. If not, you'll need to do some re-cabling and possibly purchase new levers. That's no fun.


As an amateur bar fetishist, I can say that I prefer drop bars to m-bars any day of the week. M-bars look really cool, but if you don't get the cockpit just right, they are uncomfortable. If you like the curvy, try out a set of Albatross bars.


Why not just set up a Surly Karate Monkey for commuting/touring use?


bjanaszek
2011-09-20 20:27:01

Soma Double Cross is the only frame that I know of (prior to this thread at least). I'm thinking about building up a Jamis Bosanova myself. I particularly like the disc frames that place the rear brake caliper within the triangle and allowing for a non disc specific rack.


headloss
2011-09-20 21:20:01

Yeah, I meant Soma not Salsa, oops. The Civia Bryant looks interesting too and is available as a frameset for a decent price. And definitely agreed with putting the caliper on the chainstay - that makes so much sense. I'm assuming Surly will get that right on the LHT but I don't know for sure.


I know swapping bars gets to be a whole mess so I'm definitely trying to avoid that. Maybe I should talk about bars, I actually don't mind drop bars too much but I hardly ever use the "drop" part when commuting, so as long as I have another bike for longer rides I thought I'd try something different. I've never ridden anything but flat and drop bars so I don't really even know if I'd like moustache, albatross, etc.


BTW, Kona is a triple but it's a road triple 50/39/30 - I'd rather have something MTB-like, 48/36/24 or similar.


salty
2011-09-20 21:43:54

Maybe somebody else can counteract this claim... but there is a reason touring bikes don't come with disc brakes


They're a PITA to adjust. I think the common clearance on each side of the rotor is like 1-3mm (probably closer to one)


In order to make that happen you need to have an extremely true rotor and your rotor always needs to be exactly perpendicular to your caliper


Assuming they're true, you then need to shine a light down (or up) to see how close the pad is to the rotors, then adjust, then repeat, making sure the rotor is still true


Additionally, depending on the model, the calipers move in on both sides (this is how they're adjusted for wear) This usually involves threads on one side and a springy thing on another.


The thread side is prone to locking up and requires semi-regular lubrication to remain usable. If it does get locked up, better models like the BB7 can accept a socket, others make you use a small hex wrench, (m6 maybe) which will probably break before you can fight through the corrosion on the threads


So adjusting these brakes in my experience usually takes at least half an hour, usually more depending on when the last time it was done


Compare this to my old style single-pivot sidepulls, which I can adjust in about ten minutes and I have waay more leeway in clearance and much easier adjustments


sgtjonson
2011-09-20 22:04:07

@Pierce I am of the general opinion that all brake styles can be a PITA to adjust. The single-pivot sidepull on my fixie is always freezing up and I can never get the toe-in set properly on my direct pulls that doesn't result in premature pad wear or squeal.


dmtroyer
2011-09-20 22:25:23

Yeah, I was about to add that there's probably somebody else on here that can adjust disc brakes in like five minutes :P


sgtjonson
2011-09-20 22:38:07

"Yeah, I was about to add that there's probably somebody else on here that can adjust disc brakes in like five minutes."


I like disc brakes because they are so easy to adjust! :P

But on that note, be sure to go with mechanical disc brakes like the BB5/BB7... hydraulic disc brakes are more trouble than they are worth (and unfortunately what most companies are using).


headloss
2011-09-21 00:37:44

I think a normal quick method of adjusting disk breaks is to loosen both bolts on the caliper a little, then squeeze the brake lever to align the caliper on the rotor. Then simply tighten the bolts while still holding the brake lever tightly. For me, this method minimizes the pads rubbing against the rotor and only takes a couple minutes.

Hydraulic brakes have way better stopping power and modulation than the mechanical ones that I have used. They do require more maintenance, but you can send it to a bike shop if you feel uncomfortable bleeding the lines and whatnot. That being said, on the road I think that it's hard to beat standard dual pivot brakes on machined rims. (I was just talking about this with some people IRL, they mostly agreed)

Put up some pics when you get it finished!


ben
2011-09-21 01:15:10

Yeah, I'd heard good things about BB7s. I'm not going to sweat the adjustment too much; I always heard what headloss said - or at least that they didn't require as much adjustment?


My main concern is that they grab faster in wet/snow/etc - which is true, right? I try to ride the front brake a little in bad conditions to keep the rim dry, but it's easy to forget, especially when you're not expecting to stop. I just don't like that "squeeze and nothing happens" feeling.


I really like that Civia Bryant - I might have to order one. It would be great to have a new bike this winter instead of waiting until Feb for the LHT - although I see Surly has a page up now for the disc trucker where they mention the rear disc mount is in the right place, and the full bike build is pretty much spot on (drop bars, but otherwise...)


salty
2011-09-21 01:25:11

that jamis bossanova looks nice too... if i wasn't hung up on this non-drop-bars thing i'd have a ton of options. maybe i need to reconsider that.


although, i still kind of want to build a bike from the frame up.


salty
2011-09-21 01:29:29

on the road I think that it's hard to beat standard dual pivot brakes on machined rims.


why is that? is "discs are better" a myth? does that include rain and snow?


salty
2011-09-21 01:31:18

Discs are awesome.


I find them exceptionally easy to setup and adjust until it comes time to bleed a hydraulic system.


bradq
2011-09-21 01:48:58

"Hydraulic brakes have way better stopping power and modulation than the mechanical ones that I have used. "


Honestly, I can't say that I notice a difference, which is why I say the hydraulic variety aren't worth it. I suppose the choice between a cable and hydraulic is a personal one. If you can actually feel a difference, then I understand your preference, but I can't.


The biggest benefit of the hydraulic discs is that it's pretty much a set it up and forget about it until you need new pads (ideally at least). The hydraulics automatically readjust the toe-in every time you apply the brakes. On the flip side of that coin, if you remove the wheel and aren't careful and squeeze the brake lever while there is no rotor or spacer between the pads, you will need to vent the brakes and reset the pads/pistons. I tend to take my front wheel off a lot, so the hydraulics are a non starter for me for that reason alone. Additionally, since you can't fine tune the toe-in, hydraulic disc brakes have a tendency to SQUEEEEEEL and there really isn't much that you can do about it except hope for good alignment. My cable actuated brakes are as quiet as a white winter.


I like to fine tune my brakes, and cable actuated allow me to tinker. Forget about working on your hydraulic discs at home, the mineral oil is cost prohibitive in my opinion (although bleeding isn't really that difficult).


headloss
2011-09-21 04:28:50

It's funny that your hang up is the drop bar, I'm in the opposite position and aching for more handlebar real-estate. Are you set on a steel bike? The Kona Dew seems to meet your requirements... same geometry as the Sutra, MTB gearing, disc brakes...


What about the Salsa Vaya, it's practically the twin brother to the Kona Sutra and available as a frame.

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_frameset/


headloss
2011-09-21 04:34:53

I don't know, I will have to research the handlebar thing some more. I ride drops now but in traffic I still think I prefer sitting upright like on a MTB - but I don't want flat bars since there's only one hand position. I thought that was exactly the point of moustache/albatross/etc bars?


Salsa Vaya is definitely on the list now - thanks! {hm, looks like QBP is going to get my money no matter what}


salty
2011-09-21 05:27:27

Squeeling generally means glazed ot contaminated pads Mineral oil, or more likely DOT fluid isnt that expensive and comes with most bleed kits. Pulling the lever without the wheel isn't really a problem with newer systems. At worst you shove a pad spreader in and squeeze the lever a few times. Bleeding the new systems is easy too. It takes me at the worst half an hour to adjust hose length and bleed a new set up and maybe 10-15 minutes to do a maintainance bleed. Front and rear. Changing pads is also really easy on the newer systems from Avid and Shimano. While mechanical discs are probably more than enough for the road, especially BB7s, if you can't tell the difference then you are either not using the bike to it's potential or whoever set up the hydros did a shit job.


cburch
2011-09-21 09:42:13

I set up a bike with a moustache bar, and I found that when you get the levers on, it turns out there is really only one effective hand position anyway. And finding the right location for brake levers is tricky, unless you get those funky bar end levers that point forward.

IMO flat bars with bar end add-ons would give the best hand position options for a touring bike, short of those wacky "trekking" bars. And those are just crazy.


edmonds59
2011-09-21 10:50:08

+1 to what Edmonds said. If you want to be upright with multiple bar positions, check out an Albatross bar (or even an FSA Metro). Also, if you kinda like drops, but want a higher setup, look into flared drops set up MC style.


FWIW, I think Albatross bars are the nicest commuter/noodling around bars on the market. Surly is making something similar this year, too.


bjanaszek
2011-09-21 11:07:49

I have albatross on my commuter and use no less than 4 hand positions regularly. I think the key for me is that I have them just a smidge lower than my seat and a relatively long stem.


dmtroyer
2011-09-21 13:35:49

There are ton's of 700c "commuter" bikes out there these days with mountain bike bars and disc brakes. Most have triples, but they aren't full on mountain bike gearing, but should be plenty low enough for almost everyone.


Start as low as $500, should be easy to find one that suits your needs. Have the shop swap to whatever bend-y bars you decide on.


All braking systems require maintenance, and in bad weather I'll take hydraulic discs over anything else. Ever pull apart a set of BB7's after a few salty winters? Might as well throw them out and start over.


And it has been pretty sweet not to worry about grinding away my rim walls with my brake pads every year.


I really like inexpensive Shimano brakes for commuter bikes. They rarely squeal, use mineral oil (no nasty DOT fluid) and are easy to bleed at home.


eric
2011-09-21 17:55:19

The salsa vaya may be my new lust bike


dmtroyer
2011-09-21 19:39:45

"If you can't tell the difference then you are either not using the bike to it's potential or whoever set up the hydros did a shit job."


I speak from experience with several different hydraulic brake set ups, so I'm pretty sure I'm not pushing the bike to a point where I notice a difference.


I did have a set of contaminated pads (from the factory), and before replacement I sounded like a train coming down the street. They aren't too bad now, but my mechanical discs are quieter (and the faulty Shimano m485 left a bad taste in my mouth). My girl friends Focus Maleta rubs ever so slightly and it drives me up a wall that there is no way to adjust the toe-in (I haven't taken the time to bleed and reset yet, hopefully that remedies that situation). Maybe the problem is with the intro level Shimano hydraulics? Or maybe I've just had a bad run of luck with them. *shrugs* Either way, I'll try to be open minded about trying a different set up in the future since you and others here have had better experience.


headloss
2011-09-22 02:51:13

I love the Salsa Vaya, they have a few built up at Freeze-Thaw if you're ever in the State College area.


headloss
2011-09-22 02:56:14

FYI, Thick is now a stocking salsa dealer as well.


cburch
2011-09-22 05:54:32

Yeah, I think I'll head down to thick and get the ball rolling and see what Chris has to say, I assume he can order civia too since it's also qbp. Vaya and Bryant are pretty close to the same frame afaict.


Although, I found something else intriguing today too: http://www.cyclelicio.us/2011/rei-novara-gotham/


salty
2011-09-22 06:19:25

oooh, I like the looks of that Gotham. Your link has a link to the review of that Nuvinci hub.


pseudacris
2011-09-22 11:20:19

yup he can order civia. i'm eyeing one as a light cargo/commuter bike one i get things a bit more settled. all salsa dealers have qbp but not all qbp shops are salsa dealers. kind of like squares and rectangles.


cburch
2011-09-22 14:06:56

"Ever pull apart a set of BB7's after a few salty winters? Might as well throw them out and start over."


That's basically the state of my one BB7 right now, waiting to be reassembled


Maybe I should consider hydraulics... There was a time when I relished the stopping power of my disc brakes


sgtjonson
2011-09-22 16:42:24

That Nuvinci hub...woah. CVT on a bicycle just sounds way too weird.


kgavala
2011-09-22 17:11:32

I think I'm headed down to thick tomorrow to (hopefully) order myself a bike.


Some info for a future generation to stumble upon - I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Salsa Vaya, Civia Bryant, and Soma Double Cross DC. Surly Disc Long Haul Trucker would be in the running but still 4-6 months away and I don't want to wait. Some Cross-check stats are thrown in since that's what I ride now (but there's no disc version).


Initially I was leaning towards the Bryant but they don't publish max tire width and I can't really find any good info online - it looks like 35s will fit but beyond that I don't know. I'd like to have the option to go a little wider especially if I'm going to be riding in the winter. Soma DCDC takes up to 38mm and the Salsa Vaya takes up to 45mm, just like the LHT & CC.


They mostly have different length chainstays: LHT = 460mm, Vaya = 450mm, Bryant = 440mm, DC/CC = 425. The Bryant is probably the best compromise; the CC is a bit short and I have to keep my panniers back to avoid heel strikes. But, OTOH I'd like not to have a super-long wheelbase.


So, I think the Vaya is the front runner. No idea yet on the bars, I'm going to try to look at some albatross bars in the shop but I think a flared drop (like the bell lap on my cross-check) may be the way to go. I think I've decided on Avid BB-7s and a MTB drivetrain with something like 24-36-48 and 11-32 (9spd), most likely barcons if I get drop bars. We'll see how the money adds up, I might get a dynamo hub...


salty
2011-09-25 04:28:25

"Initially I was leaning towards the Bryant but they don't publish max tire width and I can't really find any good info online."


I sense a future Summer bike. ;)


Just curious, for clarification purposes... are those tire sizes with or without fenders? Also, were the chain stay lengths measured or from a book? It's good info to have, and I'm glad that you posted those numbers, I'm just curious for the sake of consistency if I ever measure chain stay length.


I was trying to decide between the Salsa Casseroll (no disc *sigh*) and the Jamis Bosanova but now I'm throwing the Byrant into my possible purchase decision, thanks to this thread. Best of luck today! :)


headloss
2011-09-25 17:23:54

headloss - those are the published numbers, I haven't seen most of these frames in person.


I think the tire numbers are the widest that will fit so you might have to go a bit narrower for fender clearance. But, I think the tire markings are a bit nebulous anyways, so I'd like to have some slop too. I'd like to be able to fit a Marathon Winter with fenders (which is marked both 700x40c and 42-622 - so how wide is it really?!), although they do have a 35mm size as well.


mr marv - I ride a cyclocross bike now, it's definitely close to what I want and if it had disc mounts I'd probably just keep it. But, if I'm changing bikes I might as well tweak it a little bit - the other bikes (aside from the Soma Doublecross) I'm looking at are a little more touring oriented, just a bit longer wheelbase and more relaxed geometry (of which chainstay length is one component)... but the differences are pretty subtle.


I went to Thick, Chris has a Vaya coming this week, although he thinks it's a 54 or 56 which is going to be too small for me. He kind of dissuaded me from starting from a bare frame - he thinks it would be a lot cheaper to buy the full bike and swap out some components, so we'll see. I didn't actually order it today, I'm gonna go look at the bike they get in and do a little more research in the meantime...


salty
2011-09-25 20:19:53

@salty: aside from the dynamo wheel we talked about, I've got a set of Marathon Winters in 35mm that I have not yet mounted. You're welcome to borrow 'em for fender fit testing.


WRT to fenders, the recommendation I've seen is to shoot for 7-10mm of clearance betwixt tire and fender. So, if you're planning to run 35mm tires, you likely want fenders in at least 42.


I've become a big fan of metal fenders (stainless steel Berthouds are da bomb, but the aluminum ones from Velo-orange are also quite spiffy...). Slightly more work to install, but they're just so much nicer than any plastic ones I've tried. Also, metal fenders are sturdy enough to support a battery- or dynamo-powered tail light, if you like options other than rack or seat post for mounting such gadgets.


reddan
2011-09-25 21:42:54

Heh, you've got so many parts I want - maybe you just have a whole bike somewhere too?


I'm a bit disillusioned at the moment, there are too many things I don't like about the stock Vaya build (crank, rims/hubs, brakes) that now I'm worried it's going to get expensive either way. OTOH the build kit for the Disc LHT is pretty much exactly what I want (aside from dynamo). Maybe I should just exercise some patience.


any opinion on these? http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222368547/143/Velo-Orange-Stainless-Steel.html


I note they're 45mm but for 35mm tires. I guess that's no big deal. I'd definitely like longer fenders than what I have now.


salty
2011-09-25 22:08:27

Those stainless VO fenders use the same hardware as the aluminum Zeppelins I've got...you'll need a marker, a center punch, a drill, and a hack saw or Dremel w/ cutoff wheel, as well as the usual assortment of hex wrenches and suchlike.


As long as they fit in your frame, I'd say those look like a lovely option.


Also, Thick Bikes sells/stocks/orders V-O parts...if you're going through Chris for the bike, might as well get the components through him too.


(Not to sound like a Velo-Orange fanatic, but it's also worth checking out their various front and rear racks...many of 'em are stainless steel, and include fittings to bolt racks directly to the fenders...makes for a very strong, rattle-free, integrated system.)


reddan
2011-09-25 22:44:54

BTW, Chris said that building a bike from the frame would cost "two or three times" as much? That seemed really high to me, assuming I spec similar quality parts and don't go all XTR/Dura Ace/etc, but I've never looked at component prices.


The Vaya complete bike is $1500 while the frame + fork is $600. Do the components on that bike really go for $2400 individually? I knew it would cost more to do a build, but I'm not prepared to spend *that* much more.


salty
2011-09-26 00:13:11

Did you look at both of the Vaya models? They have a build on a black frame that is a little different from the orange... not exactly sure what you are looking for component wise but I find the black one much more to my liking.


"Do the components on that bike really go for $2400 individually? " Probably not... but they may at full retail. The little things like a seatpost, saddle, handlebars, etc. can add up fast. Every time I've crunched numbers, I've saved by building myself (but not factoring in cost of labor which wouldn't exist), and I came up with better parts to boot. I think you are only saving by buying a prebuilt if you sell what you don't use, in which case I'm guessing that Thick would buy back the parts you don't use in exchange for the upgrades? I think the only way to know for sure is to run the numbers and see what they would sell the bike for after buying new parts and subtracting the pull offs and see where that would leave you.


headloss
2011-09-26 00:46:43

Completes are way cheaper than building from a frame. Especially if you aren't speccing parts by what you can find deals on. Its all about economy of scale. Manufacturers buy components in huge bulk orders that drive the price far down below what the wholesale price of the individual components would be. Chris is actually costing himself money when he encourages you to do this instead of ordering the frame and all the parts through him since the margins on after market components are much higher than on complete frames.


cburch
2011-09-26 02:12:37

FWIW I ran the specs on the LHT disc through google shopping and going by the average price of parts, with as few substitutions as possible, came up with $1143 before adding any applicable shipping/taxes. That doesn't include the price of frame/fork.


headloss
2011-09-26 05:38:15

wow, that sounds like a lot of work that i was too lazy to do - thanks!


ok, let's even assume shipping and misc stuff takes that up another $250 to $1400. so building a vaya for those parts is $2000 vs the $1500 they charge for the complete bike. That's more like what I was thinking - it might cost a few hundred more but not 2-3x... that i can probably handle, i get exactly what i want and the experience of building the bike up from the frame which i think would be cool.


salty
2011-09-27 00:46:19

2-3 times is if you buy everything at a retail bike shop for full retail prices. make sure that if you do go with a frame only you have them prep the frame for building (facing, reaming, chasing) and that you get yourself a headset press or have them press the cups in for you. otherwise you are opening yourself up to a REALLY bad day.


cburch
2011-09-27 17:04:29

Just saw the Redline Metro series has turned to a commuting/cyclo/touring disc bike for 2012.


dmtroyer
2011-10-01 12:28:44

any luck, salty?


I was also just wondering if there are any road alternatives to the Avid BB's?


dmtroyer
2011-10-12 03:37:41

I've been too busy to do anything else about it lately. I saw Chris got a Vaya in stock, I want to go take a look at it but I'm not sure it's still there. It's a 54 - probably too small for me but the geometry is weird so I wanted to at least get an idea.


I dunno, at this point I'm probably leaning towards just ordering a disc trucker and waiting until spring.


Shimano has "road" discs (R505), I don't know much about them except people generally seem to prefer the BB7's.


salty
2011-10-12 05:19:16

The Vaya is still there and gorgeous. After this mornings commute I am tempted to buy a disc trucker frame to replace mine.


rsprake
2011-10-12 13:05:04

Edit. I failed...


rsprake
2011-10-12 13:07:36

who here bought a disc trucker? I saw you riding up Penn at SaltPGH this evening. Drool.


dmtroyer
2011-10-25 22:41:44

Can you even buy it yet? Pretty certain I am just going to replace my LHT with the disc trucker but I may go to a Soma Double Cross to change things up.


rsprake
2011-10-25 23:11:03

Yeah, last I heard Disc Trucker was coming out in Feb. I've heard of people putting disc forks on a CC or LHT, though...


I should go down to thick and order something, regardless.


salty
2011-10-25 23:55:08

hmmm.... maybe I was hallucinating but it was definitely steel with a crown fork and discs front and back. it was bikepgh blue with what looked like surly white letters. hmm.


dmtroyer
2011-10-26 00:04:40

Like, whoa.


And I get excited when I find a quarter on the sidewalk.


bjanaszek
2011-10-27 18:10:24

I guess now is a good time to mention that I won one of these at the Rail-to-trail Sojourn over the summer. Too bad for me that I wrote a friend's name on the raffle ticket ($20) and I'm the honest type. Of course, I still get to ride it. :)


Come to think of it, I'm not sure why I didn't recommend this model earlier.


headloss
2011-10-28 04:17:54

That Roper is a damn nice looking bike.


orionz06
2011-10-28 04:52:09

wow, that bike looks pretty cool and it certainly includes a lot of cool stuff - hydraulic discs, 3x10 MTB gearing, dynamo and front/rear lights, fenders, and a rack. I was a little surprised to see the price, ~$1350.


I don't really want straight bars and there don't appear to be any eyelets for a front rack, but otherwise... it's definitely on the list - thanks!


salty
2011-10-28 04:57:31

the roper is high on my list of bikes to oggle, but I would probably want a tad larger cassette.


dmtroyer
2011-10-28 13:45:31

@ dmtroyer I would probably want a tad larger cassette.


+1


Only for me, more than just a tad.


mick
2011-10-28 22:11:36

Question: What does increasing the size of your cassette do? Does it mean more speed?

And why steel frame over aluminum?


marvelousm3
2011-10-29 00:10:37

bigger cassette = lower gears = less effort to climb


cburch
2011-10-29 01:30:18

Steel = personal preference. Supposedly a better (comfort wise) ride, especially over long distances. It is also, supposedly more repairable. Everyone has an opinion and there is a lot of debate back and forth. For what it's worth, most touring bikes are steel (light-weight steel, not the department store high-tensile crap). There are a few companies that make an aluminum touring bike, the most notable would be from Cannondale. I have no personal experience with steel bikes, save my 1974 Motobecane, which I've never taken on a long enough ride to appreciate a difference (not to mention it's sized too big for me anyways), but I hope to purchase a steel bike in the near future and give it a shot.


I believe that the increased stiffness of aluminum is better for racing and climbing hills... a better power transfer, or so they say.


@Salty, nope, no front rack eyelets. That surprised me actually, the bike has the rear brake cable run through the tube, the wires for the lights are run through tubes, the kickstand is welded onto the frame... they practically thought of everything, but not a front rack? *shrugs* It is a good bang for the buck, but probably not a good start if you would replace the handlebars with drops; it would work great with trekking bars of some sort though. If you want any large pics of the Maleta, just let me know what you'd like to see.


headloss
2011-10-29 02:19:41

Last Friday I saw an orange Vaya with stan's notubes rims and Schwalbe Marathon Supremes at OTB. Does this belong to anybody here? I would love to ask some questions about it.


dmtroyer
2011-11-09 21:41:07

Continuing the saga... I went down to Thick today, the new date he has for the Disc Trucker is March 15, but he's not yet able to order one.


So, I went and checked out the Vaya 2 and 3 that are both in stock. I do like the orange color of the 2 but I really want a triple... and I wish it had BB-7 instead of BB-5. Still, I was thinking of being impulsive, but I noticed a ding on the top tube of the 3... I know it doesn't make that much difference but Chris said he's going to try to get a new frame.


Anyways, I did look at the non-disc trucker and I was kind of surprised it doesn't have the flared drops (Salsa Bell Lap) like the CC has. I might have to swap those out, I kinda dig the flares - although I've not ridden straight drops since I was a kid so maybe it's not really much difference.


salty
2012-01-16 23:02:24

I am most likely going to order a Disc Trucker from Chris when they are available. If a frame with disc brakes also had a kickstand plate I would be in heaven.


rsprake
2012-01-17 15:04:25

Civia Bryant has a kickstand plate




dmtroyer
2012-01-17 15:12:03

Surly's article about kickstands goes on about no kickstands, and then "recommends" the SKS Pletscher. I was thinking of putting one of those on my LHT. $57 does sound expensive for a kickstand, but once you've seen this it doesn't sound so bad.


salty
2012-01-17 18:15:11

I have the Pletscher on my LHT.


rsprake
2012-01-17 18:26:23

Thumbs up?


salty
2012-01-17 18:32:22

Riv has a single-leg Pletscher for $13. Speaking from experience, as long as you are dealing with a normal commuting load (even a light touring load), a single leg is just dandy.


bjanaszek
2012-01-17 18:34:50

After having numerous bikes tip over with a single leg kick stand, this is the only kick stand I will ever use. Plus it can double duty as a work stand when you're in a pinch. I love it.


rsprake
2012-01-17 18:58:47

sold!


now I need to find a front rack, I think I've narrowed it down to:


VO Porteur

CETMA Halfrack (or maybe the brack)

Soma Porteur


I think I'm leaning towards the VO, but the Soma is a bit larger (and a bit cheaper, although if you add the $40 fence it's much closer).


salty
2012-01-17 19:21:56

Consider carefully how these might affect the ability to put your bike on a bus rack, if you ever need that. I have not investigated it, but something to think about.


edmonds59
2012-01-17 19:26:01

That is a good point, and I had not considered it. I don't rack my bike a whole lot but it is a really nice option to have especially after a night on the town... or if you snap your chain and don't feel like trying to fix it in the 38 degree rain at night.


salty
2012-01-17 19:30:54

@salty when you say "Sold!" is that in regards to a bike? what'd you get? vaya 3?


dmtroyer
2012-01-17 19:34:01

In my experience, the fence isn't as usual as it would seem. I tend to strap bags to my CETMA, and most of the time, the bags don't fit nicely within the fence. If you have a bag that does fit nicely, the fence is handy for keeping stuff in place when strapping it down, but it does limit the size of what you can carry on the rack.


I've yet to try to put my CETMA-equipped bike on a PAT rack, though.


bjanaszek
2012-01-17 19:34:47

@dmtroyer - no, "Sold!" was just for the kickstand... baby steps :)


But - I'm pretty well decided on the disc trucker at this point, it would be sold if they were just willing to sell one to me.


I think I'm probably going to have to forgo the front rack though, due to the bus issue. Oh well.


salty
2012-01-17 19:47:18

This front rack would work on the bus. I've been coveting it due to the slot for the U Lock, but I think it is way overpriced!


[edit] I guess technically its more of a basket than a rack, but I like how the thick tubes could match the look of a rear rack.


pseudacris
2012-01-17 19:54:49

The rack isn't wider than your handlebars and the arm that fits over the wheel doesn't seem to need to be all the way to the fork crown. I've been using the racks with my wire basket and rack just fine.


rsprake
2012-01-17 20:00:04

Here's my rack/basket that fits on the bus.


Tried to ride but bad drivers and bad traffic got the better of me. Taking the bus from Negley Station.


rsprake
2012-01-20 17:44:07

Very sweet.


edmonds59
2012-01-20 17:50:10

I've got Soma rack sitting in my office right now. Tried installing it on my main commuter, no dice. Hooded dropouts, disc brakes, single eyelets, dynamo hub, etc.


I've never put my bike on the bus to know if this would or would not work with the racks. I can take a picture if that helps (assuming I find the right combination of hub and fork in my basement to make it work).


eric
2012-01-20 18:05:25

I love your bike @rsprake! What kind of front basket is that? I think I've passed you on Reynolds a few times - I'll shout a hello next time.


pseudacris
2012-01-20 18:20:36

It's a Wald basket strapped to a Nitto rack that is similar to this. I think that's why I can easily get it on to the bus, there are no struts that travel the length of the fork.


rsprake
2012-01-20 18:33:55

@pseudocris I've been coveting it due to the slot for the U Lock


That is a really nice thing. I like having the U-lock handy, because I like to bring my U-lock out and fool with it if I feel there are too many miscreants in my immediate region.


I have a Surly "Nice RAck" on the front of my main bike and it does make it hard to put it on a bus.


mick
2012-01-20 18:38:58

The only problem with u-lock slots like that is noise. I couldn't stand the rattling, took 2 velcro straps to quiet it down, negating the easy access advantage.


The back pocket is hard to beat if you think you might need to deploy your u lock for security reasons not related to locking your bike.


eric
2012-01-20 18:49:02

I thought today would be the day this saga finally came to an end, but then Chris sold the Disc Trucker he had right before I got there :-( anyone here buy it?


But, I think he also convinced me that a 58 (which is what it was, and also my the size of my cross-check) is too small. They have a non-disc 60 that I took for a ride - at first I was convinced it was too big but now I'm wondering if I could even go 62. They have a disc 62 but it's not built so I'm going to go check it out when it is. To prevent any further "misunderstandings" I already bought it - with the stipulation that i can order a 60 if it doesn't fit.


BTW, $100 premium for the disc version if anyone is curious.


I think I might swap the stock straight drop bars for flared bars like bell laps, and I'll definitely swap the tires for randonneurs, otherwise the stock build looks pretty good. Its more different from the cross-check than I expected though - on the hoods I'm way more upright, although I'm not sure how much of that is a real geometry difference and how much is just because of the larger frame.


So close...


salty
2012-04-08 02:51:39

Do they have any more on the floor currently? I am going to have to go check them out. I am considering that or a Civia Bryant to do a parts swap from my LHT.


rsprake
2012-04-08 13:55:14

I wonder if the fork of a disc LHT could go into a regular LHT.


sgtjonson
2012-04-08 14:41:13

@rsprake - I think they only have the 62 disc in the shop, Chris said they're going to put it together on Monday. If it fits me I'm bringing it home but I'd be happy to let you see it.


@Pierce - geometry numbers are identical on the surly site so I bet it would work, except it doesn't look like they sell the fork separately yet.


salty
2012-04-08 20:32:05

Well I bought the 62, just waiting for them to swap some parts and I'll send a pic. Man those discs work nice - any doubts about whether this was worth doing is gone. Im going to give the straight drops a chance, I can always swap later.


They're supposed to be getting a 60 in tomorrow.


Thanks to everyone for the advice, if anyone wants to take it for a ride sometime let me know.


salty
2012-04-09 21:01:42

haha, this is the story that just refuses to end... i went back to pick up the bike but the mechanic convinced me 62 was just too big based on how close the seat was to the frame. So, now the 62 is up for sale and the 60 is going to be mine. but i'm sure it won't be that simple, somehow.


salty
2012-04-09 23:59:21

Buy them both and ride them every oter day for awhile until your're absolutely sure, just in case.


marko82
2012-04-10 03:21:34

finally...




salty
2012-04-23 19:30:36

Cool!


rsprake
2012-04-23 20:04:50

Nice!


marko82
2012-04-24 04:30:16

OK, kickstand is giving me grief. The problem is, as soon as I put any weight on the rack (even a mostly empty pannier), the back wheel goes down and the front wheel comes up. Then the front wheel flops to one side, and it doesn't take much to tip the bike over in that direction - a little gust of wind did it tonight...


Apparently this is a well known issue, you can buy a thing that flicks down to hold the front wheel but it won't work with fenders. Some people use a bungee which is getting into PITA territory. Argh.


Otherwise, had a fun decaf ride tonight, I love the extra gear range because I hate having to stand up and crank... the gaps are certainly much larger as a result but I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff.


salty
2012-04-25 04:08:29

I wonder if you could shorten the kickstand so the wheels are level when engaged


sgtjonson
2012-04-25 06:33:33

Pretty bike but please get rid of those spoke reflectors. Ewwwwww


stefb
2012-04-25 08:28:11

@salty: I've got one of these wheel stabilizers from V-O, which doesn't fit the down tube on my Bianchi. You're welcome to try it out to see if it solves your problem.


reddan
2012-04-25 12:28:52

Thanks dan, I hadn't seen that and I'd be happy to try it out.


Pierce, they did shorten it already but I think it could use some more... not sure if it would be stable with both wheels on the ground though.


The spoke relectors don't bug me - they serve a purpose and they're legally required (actually they should be amber). I've been bugging Nick to make some fiks that will work with these rims, maybe when I get those I'll ditch them.


salty
2012-04-25 13:07:49

You can cut a lot more off of that kickstand. You're rear wheel shouldn't be that far off of the ground.


Tried to ride but bad drivers and bad traffic got the better of me. Taking the bus from Negley Station.


While I do have fatter tires, my rear wheel is only an inch off the ground. It will be more stable that way.


rsprake
2012-04-25 13:35:57

Doing some experiments in my garage, the bike is *way* more stable with the front wheel on the ground (even if I keep the front wheel straight). So maybe putting a basket/rack on there is the right answer.


I'll also hack off some more kickstand, although that does bring up the point that I plan to put on studded tires for the winter so I should be careful not to make it too short.


salty
2012-04-25 15:42:17