general wrenching frustrations

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helen s
Participant
#

Do “lawyer lips” have a more technical (real?) name? I never heard them called taht before, but don’t remember hearing them called anything.


ejwme
Participant
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bikefine – I totally am with you on the L/R discrimination issue, giving them different names implies some fundamental difference that doesn’t typically exist (yeah, threads, ok).

I never could get L/R straight (both index/thumbs make “L” shapes, the direction is still arbitrary, and I can write equally horribly with both) until i lived somewhere where everybody eats from communal dishes with one hand and does incredibly personal things with the other. You can imagine exactly how many tries it took for me to learn that difference. But back in the land of silverware and lots of soap, the difference is slipping slowly away from me again.


Ohiojeff
Participant
#

“lawyer lips” have a more technical (real?) name?

[A] positive retention feature that

keeps the wheel on when the locking devices are

loosened. To test this, release or unscrew the

locking device, and apply a force of 25 lbf to the

hub in the same direction as the slots in the fork.

See ยง1512.18(j)(3) for this test.

I’ve seen them referred to as “fork hooks” or “retention hooks” in magazines that would like to stay on the better side of the CPSC and the legal profession.

If you want the actual CFR notation

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/pdf/16cfr1512.15.pdf

Oddly it seems to read that you don’t need these if you have a QR but most bikes with QRs have them anyway. Perhaps there is an amendment I missed in my quick search.


Lyle
Participant
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I’d never heard them called anything *but* lawyer lips. Using them with QRs is like wearing a raincoat over your swimsuit.


bikefind
Participant
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Ok, so I like the idea of spending some time using a torque wrench, trying to get an idea of what different amounts of pressure feel like, hopefully training my sense of things with use.

So I’m looking up torque wrenches online (harbor freight [out of curiosity] and sears craftsman ) and there are scads of choices to be made. First, 3/8″, right? Second, the prices vary wildly. I’m assuming there’s a point where I’m going to want to spend to get high quality, above which I’d be paying for more than I need. But I have no idea where that point is. Anyone recommend a particular product, or some sense of “if you’re spending less than ___ you’re definitely buying crap”?

I had bought a park tool pedal wrench that I’d been trying to use, but I guess it was their lower end product. When Lyle let me try his, my god, the difference was striking. It was a thicker wrench, made a much more solid-feeling connection with the pedal. And not that the torque wrench will come into play for this task, but my motivation to buy higher quality tools in general just got jacked up a couple notches. But I’m in really unfamiliar territory – craftsman alone has one for $70, and others that cost hundreds of dollars.


edmonds59
Participant
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I’m not sure, but a 3/8″ drive torque wrench might not go low enough in it’s range for most of the fasteners found on a bike. Do some checking around and find out the specs for the fasteners you will be working on, and check the range of the torque wrench you are looking at. I’m thinking 1/4″ drive might be more in the neighborhood.

Also, in general, the larger the bolts are, the more forgiving they are in terms of precise torque.

And steel bolts that go into aluminum threads are the most delicate. Every bolt or screw should pretty much thread into place by hand, the wrench is only for the last, tightening turn.


Lyle
Participant
#

If you’re halfway good at estimating weight, you can “eyeball” the torques. 25 ft-lb is a 25lb force applied to a 1-foot lever. Or 50lb on a 6-inch lever. So, small tools for small forces. It’s very difficult to over-torque a screw with a handheld screwdriver.

The one thing that is most controversial is the torque on your crank fixing bolt, and whether or not the spindle should be lubed. I’m sure when I bring this up, there will be someone who insists that bottom bracket spindles must always be dry. Let the flame war begin…


lulu
Participant
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Lyle is right, I did not think of that. You can just estimate, it will be as good as a torque wrench.

I thought that if you could borrow a torque wrench, give it a try. But otherwise, it might not be worthwhile, because it’s quite expensive (cheap torque wrenches will be wrong).

In general, try not to use sockets wrenches when you torque a small bolt. They give you way too much force.


edmonds59
Participant
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Ha, ha, lulu, I gave her the exact opposite advice, that’s going to be confusing!

I tend to use sockets more on smaller bolts (i.e. anything below 10mm) so I don’t round the heads. I just use a 1/4″ drive set with a compact little rachet so I’m not tempted to over-crank them.

I also have a tiny little set of double ended wrenches that I like for bike work. My next preference is to use the closed end of double ended wrenches, to keep the bolt heads intact.

Open ended wrenches are my last choice, only used when there is an access problem.

No, wait, adjustable (crescent) wrenches are my last choice.

But, Lyle was again right, small tools for small work.


Lyle
Participant
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Last choice is channellock pliers.

No wait, last choice is regular old pliers. Channellocks are better than that.

No, wait. Last choice is a pipe wrench.


reddan
Keymaster
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Needlenose pliers and squeeze REALLY hard. Works like a charm.


bikefind
Participant
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opposite advice is fine. I’m getting to hear lots of things, which I can sort out as long as people say why they think what they think, which people here do for the most part. And then I have something to draw on when I’m tool shopping. Nothing black and white, but better than the (nearly) empty space that was there before.

lots of thanks to everyone talking to me here.

while I’m typing, this came up yesterday:

when you put air into a tire that has a tube with a presta valve, how often do you have the experience where the valve gut goes flying out of the valve when you take the pump nozzle off? This has happened to me twice over the course of maybe a dozen or two dealings with one particular bike. Odd luck, defective valves? Or I’m somehow abusing the valve when I pump up my tires? Seems weird.


Lyle
Participant
#

Possibly defective tube. Also possibly you’re unscrewing the valve guts themselves when you think you’re just releasing the little nubbin on the top of the valve guts. The most common abuse of valves while pumping is simply to break them.

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