BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

internally geared hub with belt drive. problem solved.

I would suggest getting full-wrap fenders if you don't already have them. That will keep a lot of crap from flying onto your front derailleur and feet.

A fixed-gear bike will solve all of the above except the rinsing/desalting question. An old fixed-gear bike will take care of that one.

cold fingertips - ouch

I put mittens over my gloves (Which, in turn, go over my glove liners).

I tired to get mittlens that were just plain thin cloth at REI this saturday. They had thin cloth mittens - in women's S and XS sizes. I wanted them in men's XXL to fit over my gloves and sit in my backpack. For when I leave the house when it freezing, but its really, REALLY cold when I come back.

Various other things I wanted for winter they didn't have. It made me think that they sell "outdoorsyness" similar to Stephen Coulter's "truthiness."

As long is it stays well below freezing, I just leave my bike outside. Until it thaws, desalting isn't such an issue. Also, if you rinse your bike off, it's very hard to get it dry enough to prevent things from freezing up. Yes, in the cold, derailleurs can get balky. Lube gets real thick. Everyone knows that WD-40 is not a good lube, but I rely on it in the winter because it addresses both problems.

@Ricky: I'm pretty sure what I have is a full wrap front fender. No rear fender, though.

@Morningsider: ha ha. I like my granny gears + if I rode a fixie around town people would probably start shouting 'cougar.'

I switched to bar a end shifter as a friction 1x8 and didn't have any issues with shifting today. Full fenders keep all the junk off if you don't already have them. I don't rinse my bike at all anymore, just wipe it off at the end of a wet day and lube the chain.

@Lyle: good point about leaving it outside. I have a large office & am allowed to bring the bike in, which may not be such a good idea if it's salty.

@RSprake: Interesting about switching to the friction shifters. I don't know too much about how the "clicky" ones work [edit] internally, but it did occur to me that the problem could be w/ the shifters & not the derailleurs.

What about "rinsing" the components with windshield wiper fluid?

@Mick: your hands sound like they'd resemble Turduckin

Whatever it takes.

When It gets really cold, I am the Pillsbury doughboy.

Norwegians say there is no such thing as bad weather, simply inadequite clothing.

+1 on full fenders WITH a long mudflap on the front. Unless it's really, really messy, full fenders with a flap with keep most stuff off the shifty bits.

Thanks, bjanaszek.

Can you tell from the photo above

(scroll ^^^^^ thataway)

if my fender and flaps are as long as you'd advise?

I wouldn't use wiper fluid on a nice bike, the alcohols and solvents in it can mess up a variety of paints, adhesives, rubbers, and plastics. Stick with water, wipe it down and dry it off as best you can (if it is indoors) and lube it up when it is mostly dry. I think we were probably at the same winter riding thing at REI. Someone (maybe you?) asked about washer fluid and the two guys looked at each other and sort of shrugged and said, 'sure why not!?'. I resisted lecturing the lecturers.

You aren't going to find a better solvent to dissolve salt than fresh water. If you don't have a basement or something like that, and you have a nice bike, what I might suggest is you brush off as much of the shit you can with a dry rag outside and bring the bike into the shower with you.

Shifting problems are likely cables, though could possibly be derailleur pivots or the shifter mechanism. You could diagnose by letting the cable go slack and pulling by hand, and by moving the derailleurs by hand, feeling for what is sticking. Check the shifters by loosening the pinch bolt on the derailleur and pulling gently on the end of the cable while shifting.

If you haven't replaced the cables and housing in a while, that's not a bad place to start...

You know, I honestly can't remember the last time I cleaned any of my bikes besides when they are filthy with mud from trail use. I clean the chain when it starts making noise.

People are usually doing more harm than good in constantly "cleaning" their bicycle by forcing water and contaminants past the bearing seals and washing away all of the oily and greasey goodness that keeps things working well.

@dwillen: thanks. yeah that might've been me who asked that @ REI, but I held off trying it precisely due to the concerns you describe.

My basement has a great floor drain: I'm more wondering what to do at work. Maybe I'll take Lyle's or BradQ's advice.

@johnwheffner. I've NEVER replaced the cables & housing (except brakes). Thanks, I will try your suggestion.

Heh, you want to wash it more than once a day? I am doing real good if I wipe mine off more than once a week, and it would be a miracle if I washed it with any sort of water spray more than once every few months. Maybe that will have to change the more I ride on days like today? I lubed up the chain with a winter lube and one application of that seems to have lasted for a couple weeks now. I have full fenders on front and back.

You might want to consider a rear fender also, as it is, your rear wheel is spinning crap off right into the workies of your front derailleur, so that might be the problem.

Also, pay attention to the little slots where the cables run under the bottom bracket, they are out of sight and easily neglected. Keep them clean and greased.

That particular design of front derailer is really prone to stop shifting in near freezing weather. It gets gummed up with spray from the rear wheel much worse than other designs.

Fenders will cure a great many of your problems.

last winter I only wiped mine off a few times. I used a dish soap/water solution, and then wiped it with a wet rag after.

I clean my bike really often, every morning if the weather is bad. I bought a little sprayer at Home Depot for about $10, the kind you pump up by hand and I keep it at work. I keep the bike in my office, so anytime there's gunk like salty snow stuck to it I spray it off. It takes about ten minutes, then I bring it in and set it on a board over the office rug. I posted before about how fast it dries, its all dry by 9:30 AM, I start work at 8. I don't like the idea of a winter beater bike, I want my best bike in the winter !

I would say your flaps should be like this, or maybe this. Any shorter, and stuff will still get sprayed on your bottom bracket. You can make the flap from just about anything. Currently, I'm using a piece of stair tread, and before that, I had one half of a water bottle.

I agree with Brad: I used to be crazy about cleaning my bikes. Then I got a fairly pedestrian commuter, and I wipe it down every few weeks (just with a rag) and clean/lube the chain.

If your bike is super clean, you're spending all that time washing it that you could be riding instead.

+1 for the sprayer from Home Depot....although I learned the hard way to not leave it outside on freezing days.....

+1 to Brad. Santa Cruz did an informal test a few years ago where they had three trail bikes and through the seaon they washed one constantly, one only after really muddy rides and one never. The occasionally washed bike was in the best shape when they did the season end teardown, followed closely by the never washed bike. The constantly washed bike was a wreck.

On a related note... what's the difference between a winter lube and a regular lube? Is winter lube more tacky? I usually use ProGold, but that's only lasting me like 20 miles before I have to reapply more. (My rear cassette and derailleur were covered in slush however)

Winter lube is really thick. At room temp, it is around the same consistency as honey.

Throw the bike in a hot shower every couple of days.

in winter i use the same pedro's syn lube on my road bikes that i used year round on my mountain bikes. it has detergents in it that help keep the chain form getting all bound up with crap. in the summer i use pedro's ice wax or other similar "dry" lube for my road bikes. the mountain bikes get dirty all the time so they always get syn lube.

OK, my problem is the derailleur cable. Thanks, @johnwheffner.

My fingers were warm today! I used old department store gloves (spandex w/ thinsulate...kind of like those cheesy isotoners) under the lobster claw gloves. Happy.

I hate to disagree with the chemist, but the chance of washer fluid hurting your bike (any more than water) is very slim.

Most washer fluid is very mild compared to a general purpose degreaser. In fact, some washer fluid is literally blue water. Big Lots is notorious for selling dyed water without anything else in it.

Even washer fluid with boosters and additives is still relatively mild.

The only damage I have ever seen from washer fluid was staining on oxidized white paint.

Also, to agree with Lyle, (which I hate to do), WD-40 is a great solvent (and a very poor lubricant).

Like Brad, I rarely clean my bikes.

I'm going to try and wash my bike tomorrow. It's fairly crusted in salt now.

yeah, the rack on my rear tire has a nice layer of salt over it...

Washer fluid they sell in the summer is pretty much blue water. "Winter" washer fluid has a large percent of alcohol in it. They don't even sell the winter stuff in California, because it fails to conform to their environmental protection laws or something of that sort. People always complain of frozen washer fluid when they make a trip up to Tahoe to ski.

So I guess it depends on what sort of washer fluid you're buying.

yesterday evening the chilly dark solitude of my ride home was accompanied by my chain squeaking in two part harmony. Today I plan on applying some lube to it...

I bought lube over the summer. I think I have finishline xcountry wet lube. Is this the right thing to use now that it's not summer? I figured I'd follow the directions in my Park Tool bike repair/maintenance book. Is there an avoidable flaw in my plan?

I know this is like asking about a plan to tie my shoes, but in the past many brilliant plans have later invoked "it seemed like a good idea at the time..."

All windshield wiper fluid has chemicals in it. The summer version is close to something like Windex. The winter version adds something (typically methanol) to lower the freezing temperature. You can buy "concentrate", which will be undiluted alcohol.

If you think about it, the exterior of a bike is much like that of a car (paint, plastics, rubber, etc) so you're unlikely to watch your bike dissolve before your eyes. The notable difference is lubricants which on a bike are exposed. The reason to use WW fluid is if you need to keep your bike outside and plain water would just freeze. Some of us have this problem.

I'm not a chemist but I expect that a less reactive alcohol (such as isopropyl) would make sense as the additive to water. Then again, if you do your rinsing on a sunny winter day you might get your bike to dry before icing becomes an issue.

so, looking at my bike, and listening to it, it has the "creaky door" sound going on when I pedal. It'd be tough to describe any better than that. Maybe the salt is causing it?

@RubberFactory: I have a creaky sound on my bike, but it's my (aging) saddle. Do you know where the sound is coming from?

bottom bracket, I think. I'm terrified of bottom bracket problems ever since I went up a tiny, not even steep incline and my bb just fell apart into a million pieces.

That time, though, it was already loose (I didn't even know what a bottom bracket was, or that it could fall apart), and I check mine almost unreasonably often to make sure it's not loose these days.

That latest issue of Bicycling covers noises pretty well.

Methyl alcohol, ethylene glycol, and water are going to be the main ingredients in washer fluid.

If you think washer fluid is going to strip of lubricants, try cleaning greasy hands with it--washer fluid is not a very aggressive solvent at the solution.

The MSDS we have on-file for the Prestone De-Icer Washer Fluid we stock, lists the alcohol content between 16-40% and the water content at 60-100%.

My point is, cars are made out of the same materials as your bike and no one worries about washer fluid doing any damage (and I deal with extremely anal car people with disgustingly expensive cars).

I wouldn't wash my bike with it, but it won't do any damage if you did.

(Not all washer fluid has chemicals in it, Big Lots, Dollar Generals, etc often gets caught selling "washer fluid" that is literally just water.)

Regarding BB noises: often simply lubing the threads of the shell takes away the creaks, particularly if you have a standard, sealed model.

It might not be your BB either. Bikes (and just about anything else mechanical) are pretty good as making things sound like they're coming from one place when they are actually quite far away.

You can see if it's your bb bearings by putting the bike in a stand, dropping the chain off of the front rings, placing your ear on the nose of the saddle and spinning the cranks. A good bb sounds all whooshy-whooshy, a bad one sounds crunchy.

Creaks when you pedal can be hard to diagnose, and can be coming from your bars, crank/bb interface, pedals, rear hub, derailleur hanger, saddle etc... It can also be the sign of a crack that is rubbing against itself, but I'd doubt that the case.

All washer fluid has chemicals in it, except maybe an empty bottle of washer fluid in outer space. When I find food labels that say the food contains no chemicals, I write to the company. I am that geeky (or anal?).

40% alcohol (it should specify which alcohol in your MSDS) is likely enough to craze some hard plastics and dry out/crack some rubber and other rubber-like synthetics with repeated use. It will also dissolve a good variety of adhesives, if you got anything (stickers?) stuck on your bike, and I'm sure could mess up a homemade paint job. I agree that it will not do much to your powder coated frame or drive train, or the outside of a car.

More to the point, it will do a lousy job of dissolving road salt on your bike. NaCl is only sparingly soluble in alcohols. NaCl is extremely soluble in water, and even more so in warm water. If anyone wants a really cool chemistry demo, I'd be happy to set one up.

You are definitely a geek.

I can say that with all of my experience in cars and graphics, I have never seen washer fluid damage rubber, plastic, or stickers.

Washer fluid has run through rubber, vinyl, and other rubber like synthetics for decades without problem (hoses, o-rings, pumps, nozzles). I ran washer fluid through a pump made for water for years without issue (it was a rearward facing tailgater spray).

I'm sticking with--I wouldn't wash my bike with it, but it won't hurt anything.

(We are going to settle this tonight with an ice skating race.)

You can ice skate, I'll be washing the stickers off your bike with a bottle of isopropanol.

@dwillen If anyone wants a really cool chemistry demo, I'd be happy to set one up.

If you do one, I am SO there!

Geeks R Us

will this chem demo involved throwing a large chunk of sodium or lithium off one of the bridges? cuz if so, i'd like to watch.

I don't think we can get away with such shenanigans after 2001, and while that would be super awesome, it wouldn't really illustrate my point--chemistry-wise.

I had a chem prof for a typically little attended chem lab "lecture" hour sophmore year. First class (attendance at ~20%), he showed a hilarious safety movie that showed things blowing up. Then he blew something up. He then promised to blow something up at the beginning of every class using a different chemical reaction. Spent the rest of the class going over the lab materials as expected.

The second class, and every class thereafter was standing room only (always same format - blow something up, then cover lab materials). He got great reviews. Don't remember his name, but he was very cool.

Chemistry is awesome.

Back when I was a freshman undergrad engineering major I had a chem lab with a TA that spoke no English whatsoever. It was a fairly useless endeavor for either side to even attempt to understand one another — he gave up, the class gave up.

On the first day of class he showed us where the emergency chem showers were, and then showed us what happened when you pulled the cord. You flood the entire floor. Nice work Kai.

About the only thing he understood from us was the names of chemicals, so in my younger, stupider days we just convinced him to give us whatever chemicals he would so we could mix them together under the fume hood and see what happened. Never got any explosions really, but made a bunch of messes. We regularly, just about every class, implored him that we needed more dry ice, like buckets full of it, which all we did was put in the sink with lots of hot water to fog up the lab. Every day. I still laugh thinking about it.

I can't believe we all graduated.

Sometime in the middle of my first semester of chemistry ever, the prof managed to burn a hole through his instructor-edition textbook, start the carpet on fire, and evacuate the entire science building by accidently shooting out a flaming gummy bear from a test tube.

It was around Halloween and he said "I usually use a piece of candy corn for this demo, but I left it at home today. I found this gummy bear on the floor and decided this would work well enough!"

Gummy bear had waaaaaay more fuel than a piece of candy corn, apparently. It went something like this (but with much, much more flaming bear bits flying out): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ-pSfXcXtw

top

never mind the useful bits, that was totally worth rereading just for the flaming bear bits at the end.

for cheap lube - 5-30, 10-40 (automobile engine oil).

Except in extreme temps it will not freeze. You can get if for free - look in any gas station trash can.

For freezing cables - find a place that sells snowmobiles, buy those cables. They are coated, the housing has as a liner designed to reduce freezing, and the housing has 'extra' room inside so that cables are harder to freeze.

@BTDT " the housing has 'extra' room inside so that cables are harder to freeze"

That could be a problem for index shifting since extra room means extra "play". And you can buy coated cables at bike store too. A little more expensive but last longer.

gore sealed cables ftmfw!

It's been on a Saturday in the past. Did something change?

stef told me it was sunday. maybe shes wrong. also, wrong thread?

It's Saturday.

Gore stopped making cables. Stock up now. They are quite nice. But just because you don't have to replace the cables as regularly doesn't mean you should let them go that long. The tight bend necessitated by modern brifters means the cable will eventually break and will do so in the shifter which may kill the shifter.