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How many of yinz guys are car-free?

I would love, love, love to get rid of my car--both for environmental reasons and because it costs me a pretty penny in insurance + maintenance even if I barely drive it--but I can't quite bring myself to do it. My future employment situation is very uncertain, and what if I end up working somewhere that's not easily accessible by bike and/or PAT bus?


So for now, it looks like I'm hanging on to the old rust bucket. I'd love to hear from Pittsburghers who live without a car, though.


Tell me, are you car-free? What neighborhood do you live in, if you feel comfortable sharing? Do you have places like grocery stores, banks, libraries, restaurants, and bars within easy walking/biking distance?


Do you mainly transport yourself by bike, bus, foot, or a combination thereof? Do you ever use ZipCar--and if so, how do you like it? Do you find being car-free to be much of a hardship?


Many thanks!


rina
2011-05-19 16:08:37

I spent my first 3 years in Pittsburgh Car-free. I was in grad school at the time, so all my "needs" were centered around that. I was able to do everything without a car by living in the East End where there are a lot of shops & buses. I had to borrow or rent for road trips or hauling large stuff. It was not too difficult - just takes more time. I was car-free in Seattle for 9 years. That was much easier.


If you are car free but dating someone with a car, it can strain the relationship if you don't communicate well and often about the shared responsibility of getting places together.


pseudacris
2011-05-19 16:14:24

I am 30 and have never owned a car. I shared one with 2 guys when I lived in Ketchikan AK, and when I was in high school I was allowed to drive the one we had there. I previously had access to a ford ranger at work, but not anymore.


I am actually looking for a car these days. Buying one is really weird, but I do want to be able to leave Pittsburgh without depending on someone else.

Sure, when I say that everyone (with cars) reccomends I rent or do flexcar, but I have tried those already (remember how I have been doing this now for 14 years...), and I want one of my own that I don't have to reserve, wait for, or face penalities with.


So, even though now is a weird time to want to buy one with gas prices, etc, I am about to give up my car-free life!


caitlin
2011-05-19 16:21:01

Oh, I will answer your other queries:


I live in east liberty.

I work about a 15 minute walk from my home.

I walk or ride to the grocery, library, farmers market, restaurants, coffee, etc. I live in a great spot for being car-free, for sure. Buslines are nearby, but I find that I can get most places far easier biking. I bike to the S. Side or Reg. Square to see movies, etc.


I would share a car with a roommate or partner if I could, or even a neighbor. But that isn't what's going on for me right now, and I really want to be able to get out of the city for camping, biking, etc.


caitlin
2011-05-19 16:23:17

I live in the east end, I work downtown. I do have a car, but it's a project car and hasn't been running for about a year. Once I get it running, I'll probably sell it and get a new car. I find living car-free is possible but more limiting than I like, as there are some things that just become infeasible. ZipCar would be fine for me if there was a car closer to my house (and if the county didn't have that stupid rental car tax). When I have had a car at my disposal, I still biked about twice as many miles as I drove, excepting a couple of very long road trips for vacation or business. I think that my biggest hurdle is buying beer. What I do is about once every couple of months I either borrow a car or use a ZipCar and spend a morning stocking up. Then perishables and other things will fit in a messenger bag or backpack. I've been considering the purchase of a bike trailer for a long time, but I can't get two months worth of supplies in a bike trailer.


lyle
2011-05-19 17:03:22

i've been car-free for over two years now. i had previously thought about selling my car, but i just couldn't give it up, much like you. but then someone took the decision out of my hands and stole it, and i never felt a need to get another one.


to me, it has been incredibly liberating. i've lived in shadyside for nigh on 8 years now, and so there is always stuff a short (and flat) ride away. i have made it a priority to live in an area that is convenient for biking, and to work near where i live (i used to work at west penn hospital, now cmu).


i guess i find the idea of owning a car now annoying. all the costs, maintenance, parking, and what not—it's so much easier to just walk, bike, or bus places, when the need arises.


i have family in buffalo, ny, and work occasionally requires me to travel. in those instances, i will either bus (to buffalo), or rent a car (to buffalo when a bus just won't do, and for work). i don't find it to be much of a hassle at all.


i wish i'd given up the car sooner!


i agree that it can be a point of contention in a relationship. my gf occasionally hints that she'd like me to have my own car, but a) i occasionally drive hers when she doesn't feel like it, and 2) she knows i'd be happy in just about any weather to bike wherever she might want to drive. since she began dating me, she's probably cut her mileage in half, too.


hiddenvariable
2011-05-19 17:11:25

i'm in my 11th year car free. Live in Lawrenceville now, but lived in uptown for most of those years. most things are pretty close, and the strip is a short flat ride. i also have a cargo bike.


no plans on getting a car anytime soon. I do use zip car and love it, especially since they have pickup trucks. that's really the main thing that i need a car for now and again - hauling large items, wood, drywall, etc.


erok
2011-05-19 17:18:10

also, i use the bus about 5 times a year. and sure, at times i find it a bit of a hardship, more annoying just not having the convenience. but really, there are hardships with owning a car too - that convenience comes at a high cost that i just don't need.


erok
2011-05-19 17:20:50

I'm car free. I live in Oakland. I used to live in Shadyside and in Squrrel Hill and they were much better for friendly neighborhood restaurants and such.


Most of my life, I've been car free. I used to mainly ride buses and walk. I have less tolerance for the BS that goes with buses, though. I have zip car, but I have not yet used it. 4 or 5 times a year I rent a car for a weekend or a vacation.


mick
2011-05-19 17:41:50

I've been car free my entire life. I go everywhere with my bike, and can't really stand taking the bus because of it. If I travel or vacation, I either take a bike-related camping/credit card touring vacation, or plane/train/bus. When I move, I rent a U-haul. The few times in my life I've had to drive, it has not made me happy. I don't even really miss the "road-trip" experience that car ownership can carry with it... I'd much rather see interesting parts of the country without flying past them on the interstate!


superletour
2011-05-19 17:47:53

I got rid of my car last November because it wasn't worth it for me to keep it legal and running. I live in Lawrenceville, and the only place I ever need to hitch a ride to is the Petco on McKnight road. It was tough to make the decision to be car-free. I was really attached to my shitty little sedan but I've saved so much money and I never find myself sitting in traffic thinking about the fun things I could be doing outside of my car. If you live in the city, everything is a quick ride away.


Zipcar looks like a great idea, the cost of gas is covered and the insurance is free. The only reason I haven't done it is because I don't have a credit card, and I'm pretty sure you need one of those to sign up.


parvipica
2011-05-19 17:51:05

I'm 10 miles up in the northern suburbs. I'd say 95% of my trips going south are car-free, but 90-100% of my trips beyond a mile north, east or west require the car. I usually bike into the city, or bike to West View to catch a bus (with bike on the front), then bike around in the city, and bus the bike to Northway Mall to ride the couple miles home.


I'm also sharing the car with two other drivers, and one non-driving family member (art student) who carries a lot of fragile/large things, so the ONE car is more/less a necessity. ZipCar does not serve the suburbs, even West View.


20 years ago I had four cars. Buses and later a fleet of bicycles have made the multi-car thing (even a 2nd) unnecessary.


stuinmccandless
2011-05-19 17:51:50

@parvipica: pretty sure you need a credit card. there is a zip car in the parking lot across from hambones that's pretty convenient. not to turn this into a zipcar ad, but they have this deal mon-thurs that you can get the car all night after 6pm for like 35 bucks - gas and everything included.


Point is, when i need to use a car, i try to maximize my use. I use it more as a tool than anything, and having the zipcar makes me really think about whether i need or just want to use a car.


erok
2011-05-19 17:59:19

so for anyone car free: how do you feel about having to rent/find/borrow a car to go camping, etc? I guess that is the main reason I want one now... it's nearly impossible for me to go to parts of west virginia, cook forest, etc unless i take enough time off to figure out how to bike there and back too.


caitlin
2011-05-19 18:24:52

that's def one of the things that i've been thinking about. some of my outdoorsy sleeping is fulfilled in the many places off of the GAP trail. the few times i've rented a car, it hasn't been too expensive. but the way that i try to think about it is that I only spend XXX dollars per year on car use, while most people spend XXX + $$thousands$$ on car use, so having to drop a bit now and again isn't the worst. i mean if i wanted to do that every weekend, it might be a different story.


erok
2011-05-19 18:50:25

There's plenty of camping places that are a bike ride from town.


The business of driving to the great outdoors always rankled me. I lived with a woman that did that, but we would have strong disagreements about it. Until we started to plan a wedding, the only times we fought were about walking in town or about driving to "nature."


For me, the most awkward aspects of not owning a car are social issues. Some were still issues when I owned a car. ("Hey, we know we're going to drink at the show [party/bar/whatever], let's take a taxi.")


I have friends that will ask -more than once - every time we get together, "Are you sure you don't want to put your bike in my car and get a ride?"


It has been a huge issue for some women I've dated. ("I can't call you late at night and ask you to come over." "Why not?" "You'd have to ride your bike (maybe 3 miles) to get here.")


mick
2011-05-19 18:51:28

If you don't drive to some outdoor locations, how does one get to see all of the things the state has to offer? I understand the hatred for parking-camping, but there are lots of places that need to be driven to if you want to really enjoy them.


orionz06
2011-05-19 19:09:11

Mick, 3 miles for a late night booty call?! Hell most of us would go 300 miles!


(women just don't understand guys)


marko82
2011-05-19 19:13:14

@Mick:It has been a huge issue for some women I've dated. ("I can't call you late at night and ask you to come over." "Why not?" "You'd have to ride your bike (maybe 3 miles) to get here.")


That seems an odd concern on their part. Many guys would happily ride a friggin' pogo stick for three miles if asked to come over to a woman's house late at night, much less a bike...


[edited to add: Marko, I see we had the same thought...]


reddan
2011-05-19 19:17:25

I'm 49 and have never owned or rented a car. I take the bus mostly, and occasionally bike to a few places the bus doesn't reach. I live in Squirrel Hill, very close to stores (and with good bus service).


Occasionally there are activities I miss because I don't drive (but camping's not one of them; I like electricity and roofs). Not enough to bother with car though.


steven
2011-05-19 19:27:54

Mick - maybe you need to date more imaginative women! I can think of no reason not to MAKE a booty call, and it's up to the recipient to come up with a reason why not (booty doesn't want to bike /could/ be one, I'll not speak for anybody there).


I have mixed feelings about driving to nature. The best nature is where there's nothing else. That's really far. I'm willing to bike there, but I don't want to have to turn around and go home immediately because it took me so long to get there. But I HATE driving. If I have to, I'd rather drive somewhere and leave it parked for as long as possible.


I have grand plans to ditch my car, or rather to get Hubby comfortable driving a stick and get rid of his POS car and use mine instead (cavalier vs heated seats and sunroofed diesel, like it's a choice). More importantly I have grand plans to live a car-free life (though I realize hubby probably will never ditch his wheeledness). Current employment precludes it (see my rants on any thread where cranberry is mentioned, or really on any thread at all). I live in Verona/Penn Hills and work in Cranberry, and I am a strictly city/country girl, so all kinds of inner conflicts.


Unasked, by my best piece of advice is - think very, very hard before you put yourself in any amount of debt. Understand what that debt will mean for your life until it is paid off. (esp. with regards to housing and employment options)


ejwme
2011-05-19 19:29:03

I'm coming up on 24, and I have never owned a car. Currently live in Lawrenceville, and since our shop is all but 200 feet away from my house, I find I don't even ride my bike there. It's sad.


I do definitely use cars though. My girlfriend and I will use zipcar,and we will frequently use Drew's car for the business (hauling larger/heavier things).


So really the main uses are for either distance (in a certain time) or weight/bulk. I would really like to get a cargo bike or trailer in the near future, as it would cut down on the latter of those two things. Zipcar and rentals do a pretty good job for the former.


I'm a fan and advocate of public transit as well. Even if I use it rarely now, it still fits a lot of the above criteria for such a small cost.


I also know that wherever/whenever/if I ever move, being able to maintain car-free is an important issue to me.


wojty
2011-05-19 19:47:40

parvipica just so you know there is a Petco in Aspinwall we go to from Highland Park. It might be more convenient for you.


lou-m
2011-05-19 20:19:05

@orionz06 yeah.. like i want to go to dolly sods. I cant really bike there. I mean you can bike anywhere technically, but its not easy and then i spend my entire vacation allotment just riding my bike someplace to backpack.


Its just really started to come to a head this year where I find I want to go to places like Grand Canyon of PA, Cook Forest, my friend's farms, etc etc but I have not been to any of these places in the past couple years at all because I find out last minute/all of a sudden have a weekend more free than I thought, and I cant just rent a car and go, or renting a car makes me have to stay on a schedule more than I'd like.


so at worst, I'll buy some oldish tank car for a few grand, use it for these things, find out it ain't worth it, then ditch it. or it will cost me a small fortune. but at best, I get to do some stuff I have really felt like Ive been missing out on in the past few years.


caitlin
2011-05-19 20:42:45

I'm 39 and have been car-free since September 15, 2010. I had a car from 22-24, and then again from 26-38 years old. My life was better without the car. I live in Esplen off West Carson Street and it gets lonely out there. I get jealous of what seems like a livlier "community" in other parts of the City but I am not willing to move just yet. I love my place.


I work Downtown about 17 minutes away from home and add in hills cuz I am silly like that.


I used zip car almost once a month through the winter. I used to be a backpacker that also did trips twice a month between October and June, and that has been impacted. I had not gotten hooked up with other like-minded folks through Meet_up or Sierra Club. I used to post trips for both when I had a car. Seems like there may be some folks here that we can split a zip car with though.....I had a friend from Cleveland come here and pick me up just last weekend since I was the only one willing to cover 36 miles in a day and a half. (He is a good friend anyway, but he has been training for a 100 mile ultra so his mileage is way up there n@)


I do wonder how it would impact relationships, but I have bikes like some people have cats. Just sayin'


I shop at GE SouthSide. Now that the weather is warmer I am hitting Trader Joes and other places. I've taken up climbing at the wall in PB. I get into the Strip now and then too. I think groceries are more difficult in warmer months because the temperature can spoil things. I eat more pizza too (and cook less) now that it is nicer and I am home less. "home less" is not bad when the weather is better.


When the GAP is finished I can hook up a trailer and ride inside Costco. Right?


p-rob
2011-05-19 20:53:21

@wojty. neighbor. Yo, we have a trailer if you're ever in a pinch!


erok
2011-05-19 20:54:16

I've been car free for...11 days. I live in Oakland and work in Squirrel Hill, so a combination of bike and scooter work fine for me. I haven't run into any problems yet, but getting to my dad's house in Mars is going to require a bit more planning. Nothing major. Nick has a car, but his insurance says that I can't drive it. He rarely drives it anymore, either.


kgavala
2011-05-19 21:01:19

I don't actually know how to drive.


Luckily for me, though, it's pretty easy to be car-free in Pittsburgh. I make sure that when I move, I don't move so far from my job that walking there (in case my bike breaks) is unrealistic. If I'm not feeling well and can't ride (which has happened twice this year, I had a bad cold and then the flu ), There's always the bus.


The only reason I've ever wished for a car since I moved here were the times I was stuck at the greyhound station, completely miserable waiting for a bus to Cleveland.


My mom constantly gets on my case about learning how to drive. I tell her I don't need to and she doesn't believe me. There's no need to argue; parents just don't understand.


rubberfactory
2011-05-19 21:32:42

I have a car I'm debating getting rid of (~400mi since July, it's not really worth it), but my wife also has a car so even if I get rid of it I'm still not "car free". I'm also debating buying a scooter or motorcycle but I think that's bending the definition of "car free" (sorry, Kayla...)


I use zipcar sometimes and it is cool - especially having access to a truck on those rare occasions I need to haul something big, but my main hangup is it sucks for taking trips since you pay for the entire time you have it.


What I'd really like is to have a car co-op with a few other people in my situation, but from what I understand insurance companies make that difficult to accomplish inexpensively.


salty
2011-05-19 22:13:06

To the OP: Maybe a different take on this question is (and this board is likely not the place to ask, but I might be wrong), for those city dwellers with two, maybe even three, cars, how do they justify doing that? Never mind the monetary cost, the better question is, WHY are they so car-dependent when there are so many other options?


stuinmccandless
2011-05-19 22:22:25

stu, I can't imagine how that question would help the OP.


tabby
2011-05-19 22:43:19

@Tabby - Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I'm more responding to where the thread was going, than the original post. My apologies, this is kinda off topic.


stuinmccandless
2011-05-19 23:12:48

What I'd really like is to have a car co-op with a few other people in my situation, but from what I understand insurance companies make that difficult to accomplish inexpensively.


this is really what i would want to do too.


caitlin
2011-05-19 23:19:44

Me too. Y'know, there's nothing (other than access to a big chunk of capital and a bunch of regulatory hurdles) that is stopping anyone from forming an insurance company.


lyle
2011-05-20 00:41:23

Stu, I think that question is difficult to answer without sounding sanctimonious and self-righteous ("I've seen the light, unlike those cage-dwelling troglodytes!"), but I guess I'd say that people don't get it because they haven't tried it, and if they don't try it, they'll never get it. (And I have to be fair and mention that there are some people who are simply unable to be car-free or car-lite because of their health or their job or their living situation or their lack of access to public transportation.)


There's a class element to it: it's cool to zoom around in your car. It's not cool to ride the bus. Riding your bike is for poor people or eccentrics. I've heard people say that they refuse to ride the bus because they don't want to be in such close proximity to "undesirable" (read: poor) people.


A more charitable interpretation is that it IS unpleasant to be crammed into a crowded bus like sardines along with a teeming mass of humanity. In inclement weather, it is unpleasant to wait at a bus stop or walk a long distance or ride your bike. It can be inconvenient to spend a long time waiting for the bus.


It can be intimidating to try something new. Novice bus riders can have difficulty finding the correct route or deciphering schedules. The first several times I rode a PAT bus, I was so embarrassed and unsure because I just couldn't get the hang of whether you were supposed to pay as you were getting on the bus or as you were leaving. (Actually, to this day, I still don't really know. There's supposed to be some rhyme or reason to it, but I can never seem to remember it. Now I just forge on, regardless of fare-paying humiliation.)


Starting to ride a bike has its own embarrassments and difficulties, too. When I first started cycling, I was absolutely incredulous that you were supposed to ride a bicycle in the street and not on the sidewalk. I was in awe of the hot hipster dudes (hi, hot hipster dudes!) cycling briskly down the street, and I thought that I could never, never do that in a million years.


I didn't have a car in Pittsburgh as an undergrad. I also hadn't been turned on to the wonders of riding a bicycle, and I did feel severely limited because I had to rely on the bus and my own two feet for transportation. Relying solely on the bus can be inconvenient: it may not run often enough; it doesn't run late enough at night; it doesn't go exactly where you want to go so you have to walk a long while at either end; you might have to transfer repeatedly...the list goes on. I really think multi-modal transportation helps a lot in making up the gaps in Pittsburgh's public transportation system.


I also think people don't realize how much riding a bike broadens your horizons. There are places in Pittsburgh where I will not drive because it's such a massive pain in the ass to take a car there. Getting there by bus or bike is infinitely easier, and it means you don't have to look for parking (or pay for it!).


As for how we can help encourage transportation alternatives--well, I think rising gas prices will help with that. So will activism, both active and passive (riding your bike and showing people by example that it is a fun, convenient, viable, and realistic form of transportation).


Well, that's my treatise, but I think I'm probably preaching to the choir here. :)


rina
2011-05-20 01:04:50

the single biggest missed opportunity to getting people out of their cars: rebuilding route 28 before the completion (or starting construction of..) of a commuter rail line up the allegheny river.


nick
2011-05-20 02:43:18

Yeah, when I moved back to the city I rode the bus a lot but now I almost always ride my bike. But they are very complementary in a lot of ways - I still ride the bus when I'm drunk or tired or want to avoid getting sweaty.


The part about when to pay would be funny if it weren't so sadly true - I wonder how many people get scared off by being made to feel stupid by paying/not-paying at the wrong time. I still screw it up sometimes too.


It is convenient to have a car, I will admit, even if I don't drive it much, it's there and available...


salty
2011-05-20 03:55:33

If it turned out that there really is some legal reason that insurance companies couldn't offer a policy that covered multiple drivers in separate households on a single insurance policy, there's always business coverage. It might be more than individual coverage, but spread out across multiple drivers it would still be cheaper than car ownership.


lyle
2011-05-20 10:56:05

The car co-op might be great for a truck as well. As a homeowner who does not own a truck I am often left with few options when it comes to mulch, gravel, large purchases, and all kinds of other things that pop up. There is a lot of merit to the idea and people from all walks should get on board.


orionz06
2011-05-20 13:30:12

my partner and I have one car, but when she's out of state for grad school for semesters at a time, I am effectively car free.


We're renovating a house, and I like to visit family out of state so I am still dependent on that mode of transportation from time to time. I use zip car ($35 overnight) and uhaul (trucks and cargo vans for $20 for 24 hours) as well as Enterprise has a killer $9.99/day weekend deals that you can find through various means.


dmtroyer
2011-05-20 13:45:34

I've been car-free for about a year, but my husband has a car so I consider myslef to be more "car-lite" then actually carfree beings with some careful planning I can drive his car when need be. Thats important to me because I live on the southside and my family lives in Mckeesport and I would have to ride 3 buses to get from door to door. I also have a cargo/electric bike so grocery shopping isnt a big deal for me.


EDIT: i got rid of my car because we couldnt afford to keep them both and I can bike to work, he cant. I lose (or win, which ever way you look at it)


bikelove2010
2011-05-20 14:19:38

share with me the 9.99 enterprise means! i dont have any insurance though, so i feel that's where they get me!


also lolly and i often talk about a car co-op... she found a flyer for one in san francisco.


caitlin
2011-05-20 14:27:07

I would gladly loan out my truck if I knew I wouldn't have to end up on Judge Judy or some such trying to get money from someone messing it up.


tabby
2011-05-20 16:05:03

internal car share! When my housemates got a new/old car for their family, I kind of quasi-inherited their 1990 Honda Civic. We both drive it, it's still in their name but I get to use it when I want. I'm sure it's not the best situation but until we get some more official car sharing thing in place... I wish that it was more socially acceptable for non-family members to share housing/cars/etc. Darn individualist society.


gimppac
2011-05-20 16:31:18

I'll go carfree again when the kids have fledged and left. :)


Meantime where are these camping sites a bike ride from town? I need to know (I'll chip in "Camp Guyasuta", possibly not very helpful for non-Boy-Scouts but hey, I've biked there.)


sprite
2011-05-20 23:33:16

@Bikelove: I like the phrase "car-lite"


rubberfactory
2011-05-21 00:43:03

@sprite Meantime where are these camping sites a bike ride from town?


The ones I can thinnk of are Racoon State Park, Crooked Creek lake and the Dravo Cemetary Campstie.


I'm sure there is more. To be honest, most of the camping I've done in the last few years has been strictly pragmatic- finding a place to sleep.


mick
2011-05-21 02:41:58

The Girl Scouts have a cabin adjacent to North Park. I don't think NP itself has camping facilities (but it's a big park and there are a lot of trees...just sayin').


stuinmccandless
2011-05-21 16:30:14

Came across this awhile ago, but it doesn't seem to be too active anymore: http://www.go-op.net/


jeg
2011-05-22 03:06:49

I got rid of my car in December 2009. I had been commuting by bike and doing most trips by bike for about 4 years before that, so by the time I decided to sell my car I was sure that this was something I could do.


To answer some of your questions...


I live Lawrenceville and work in the Strip, and I've been lucky enough to have bike/school commutes within the city.


I have all those things (supermarket, bars, etc.) you mentioned within walking/biking distance.


I mainly transport myself by bike. Sometimes I go by foot if I feel like it or have lots of time.


I don't have Zipcar but my gentleman-friend who I live with does. We use it every once in a while when we need to pick-up materials for larger house projects, or go to Ikea. We usually split the Zipcar bill which makes it even cheaper. If I lived alone or did not have access to a friend with a Zipcar, I would totally get my own membership and it would be worth it.


We also have a cargo bike at the house which helps for smaller hauls.


I never feel like I'm missing much by not owning a car. Nothing I do necessitates me traveling outside the city, but when I do want to head to another city or go somewhere that isn't bikable, a good number of my friends own cars and I usually go with them.


rachel_ding
2011-05-22 22:39:58

I am somewhat car-free. I live with my parents who have two cars, and though I could use them, I mostly don't--I often go weeks on end without riding in them. Typically I will take a car somewhere 3-4 times a month, often for a big shopping trip that I could have done in a few smaller loads. I am a Zipcar member but have not used that very much. I bike nearly everywhere and have lately started riding the bus more when I need to get downtown from Oakland and time/non-sweatiness is somewhat of the essence.


My girlfriend is slowly becoming more of a cyclist but for now still drives for nearly anything other than getting to campus from her house and I sometimes go various places with her.


(Actually, to this day, I still don't really know. There's supposed to be some rhyme or reason to it, but I can never seem to remember it. Now I just forge on, regardless of fare-paying humiliation.)


I don't think anybody has addressed the pay-enter/pay-leave question. The logic seems to be to avoid crushes of people trying to pay (and delaying the bus) on busy/popular downtown stops, and the idea that most people are commuting into downtown from the suburbs/neighborhoods and then the reverse in the evening. In many other cities, it's always pay-upon-enter, and that's how it is on inbound trips here. On outbound trips, you pay when getting off the bus, so you don't have 30 people fiddling for change all at the same time (with some who do have their money/pass ready kept outside in the rain/snow/whatever). Rather, these people will be able to pay as they get off, one or two at a time, at their various neighborhood stops, rather than jamming up the system all at once as they get on downtown. This also applies to commuters to Oakland from the East End.


For cross-town routes that do not enter downtown, and routes all trips after 7 pm, the rule is always pay-enter, since the commuter crush concerns aren't present.


ieverhart
2011-05-23 21:38:02

I usually just ask if I pay now or later.

I have though, had a few bus drivers get very angry about me asking (probably due to hundreds of people asking per day)


rubberfactory
2011-05-23 21:51:45

The easiest way to remember is, it's always pay-enter, except for outbound radials prior to 7p. A radial is a bus that originates Downtown.


That ends up being a huge exception, probably 40% of all trips all day, but still, that one sentence covers it.


stuinmccandless
2011-05-24 01:49:31

i just pay-on when you get on to go downtown, pay leave when you are heading away.


caitlin
2011-05-24 13:52:02

the pay on or off rules are also consistent with free rides in the "golden triangle"


dmtroyer
2011-05-25 12:29:19

I thought the PAT rules were so that they can make sure you pay for the correct number of zones...


Anyway, I also have been car-free for the 14 months I have lived in Lawrenceville. Before that, I lived in Toronto, where I definitely did not need a car. I made it a goal when I was about 17 to never own a car, and it's going great so far!


I am not super-hardcore so I usually don't hesitate to take the bus if it is raining (that's for the commute to work). Everything else, including most of my commuting, is done on my bike. I can take the T to visit my parents in the South Hills.


Somebody said on the first page that it can be a little awkward in social situations to be the only one on a bike. I completely agree with that.


rosielo
2011-05-25 15:07:31

rosielo, that's what I thought too (zones/bus/paying).


re: awkward social situations. this past weekend, we didn't bring our bikes on our camping trip. We were the only two without bikes, and it was awkward. Luckily one guy didn't really want to ride so he loaned me his, and hubby wanted to photograph stuff (hard from a bike). But usually I'm the only one on a bike and constantly trying to convince people that yes, it's dark, and yes it's late, or yes, it's raining, but I'm fine and WANT to ride. They never believe me.


ejwme
2011-05-25 15:14:47

@Steven I'm 49 and have never owned or rented a car.


I just saw this, although it's been hare for weeks. I wouldn't want to see it pass uncommented on.


IMO, this is the most impressive thing I've seen posted here.


Ever.


Bravo!


mick
2011-05-25 15:22:55

The easiest way to remember is, it's always pay-enter, except for outbound radials prior to 7p. A radial is a bus that originates Downtown.


I'd amend that slightly, to "Pay on exit only on routes that originated downtown before 7 pm". It's not the current time but the time it started its run that counts. But the drivers occasionally set their own rules.


They used to put a hand over the fare box to indicate pay-exit, but seem to do it less with the new boxes. Perhaps it's not as comfortable.


Bravo!


Aw shucks, tweren't nothin'. :-) Thanks.


steven
2011-05-25 20:33:53