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Looking for a Richard Sachs Cyclocross Bike

I know this is a shot in the dark, but why not start local first? I am in no rush, but don't think I would want to be on the 7 year waiting list either. I would like a 58-60 c2c, just incase someone knows of one. Thanks and yes, I know this will be a very hard find.


2012-11-27 17:08:15

I have only seen one of those bikes. A guy named Cliff, go does the team decaf rides, has and loves his.


I think the name is hilarious. I didn't think it was real the first time I saw it.


stefb
2012-11-27 17:43:14

Is he even accepting new orders except for his team? There are tons of other custom steel cyclocross frame builders out there also.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-27 17:58:24

haha, the name


pseudacris
2012-11-27 18:01:52

Stefb. Cliff. Is he a pretty big guy, like 6'2"? I has been a while, but I seem to remember a guy with that name. Wish I could ride with them, but I usually work nights. Great group. Thanks for the lead though. You never know.


2012-11-27 18:38:38

Nah he is probably more like 5'8".. I think. I dunno. Most people are taller than me. And I usually only see him on a bike, not standing much.


stefb
2012-11-27 19:23:16

stefb, yeah, I think I am not thinking of the right person. Will be a tall order to find one, but I will look for a while and then probably land on something else. The size will no doubt be an issue. Not many 58-60's out there as it is.


2012-11-27 20:02:25

OT I believe this is the same Cliff that marshal DD with me. :) I know his wife Kate (Stu knows her too).


2012-11-28 03:25:38

Yeah he is done taking orders.

I tried to get on this team. I want one too


steevo
2012-11-28 12:32:29

steevo, At least you gave that a shot. I really like that style of bike with the cool lugs and extras he puts into them let alone how light and agile they would be. Any suggestions on other builders using steel? I unfortunately ride a 58-60, so it may be harder to find a used Sachs anyway. I am starting to realize they just aren't around. I looked on ebay's completed auctions and there was about nothing.


2012-11-28 14:26:56

I was going to say, if you can't get a bike from Richard Sachs, you might try Benjamin Dover or Charles Moore Butts. I hear they do good work.

More seriously, I saw a Doug Fattic frame at TOSRV once, and it was drop dead gorgeous. He's not making them anymore but he referred me to his assistant at www.helmcycles.com. If that's your sort of thing.


jonawebb
2012-11-28 14:48:30

@gg: I haven't checked out his frames in person, but Michael Brown (Maestro Cycles) is a local framebuilder on the North Side, trained by Mike Flanigan of A.N.T.


Also, Anthony Mezzatesta in Cranberry does some spiffy lugged stuff.


reddan
2012-11-28 14:52:03

Maybe you can get some dude to sell you his spot in the waiting list? It's what, 8 years long now?


rice-rocket
2012-11-28 14:58:09

@ rice, it says on the website, "non transferable deposit". Cool idea though. I suspect there are lots of people that lose their $400 because things change in such a long period of time.


2012-11-28 15:02:14

Thanks for the other bike builders. I will have a look.


2012-11-28 15:02:55

"Also, Anthony Mezzatesta in Cranberry does some spiffy lugged stuff."


Too bad he can't seem to stay focused on bicycles... why do people feel the need to drag their personal politics into everything?


Pricing

price increase due to the Democratic Party.

Thank Them


headloss
2012-11-28 17:15:34

If I ever had any desire to try to get a bike from him, it would be gone, as that statement is just douchey and unnecessary.


stefb
2012-11-28 17:34:09

Ha, ha, from the same site!


"Please pray


for the people of New York


and New Jersey that are effected by the storm."


because that's so much more effective than say, FEMA, or the National Guard, or an actual power grid.


edmonds59
2012-11-28 17:38:31

Tolerant of other people's politics much?


mayhew
2012-11-28 19:28:24

If we're going to blame the Democractic Party for increasing healthcare coverage and therefore costs on businesses, how about we blame both parties for not allowing a single payer system?


People who delay treatment because they're uninsured raise the cost of treatment for everybody. Why don't we blame somebody for the rise of chronic illnesses? Or perhaps the dead parents of baby boomers?


Nah, let's just remain ignorant and blame Obama


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/10/seven-factors-driving-your-health-care-costs.html


sgtjonson
2012-11-28 21:02:19

The praying part is ok by me, but I don't imagine that I would want to spend more than five minutes in his shop. I'd love to talk about frame building and just check out his work but I highly doubt it wouldn't turn political if his opinions are that strong.


headloss
2012-11-28 22:07:56

If I let peoples politics/religious beliefs affect my shopping habits, friendships, etc, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have any friends because I think I would disagree with everyone on at least something.


You people are ridiculous.


steve-k
2012-11-28 22:20:23

He put it out there, therefor, it's fair game.


headloss
2012-11-28 22:38:31

Miss you Steve K.


mayhew
2012-11-28 23:17:39

There are political views that people hold that are outright harmful to others.. And bullshit. Not tolerant of bullshit statements.


stefb
2012-11-28 23:31:55

And what exactly are the personal political views of your boss? The people who made your bike?


mayhew
2012-11-28 23:40:23

I am not sure. They don't broadcast it over the Internet.


stefb
2012-11-28 23:43:23

BS should not be used to gouge customers on price just because he is angry about election results. Lame.


stefb
2012-11-28 23:49:58

Do you know if he raised his prices because of the election solely? Maybe he raised prices because the price of stock tubing and other items he uses to build bikes went up and he is blaming the democratic party for that?


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-29 00:43:26

Why does the Richard Sachs cyclocross team use shitty Tektro Oryx brakes? I would think Richard could get some better brakes from a sponsor than that.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-29 01:19:18

How much was the custom frame before?


If you don't like paying $1600 for a thirty year old frame design, aren't there far, far, far, far less expensive options?


Reynolds 531, while nice, isn't exactly cutting edge technology (introduced 1935 according to wikipedia)


If you have that kind of cash to drop on a frame, perhaps thanking the parties would be in order


sgtjonson
2012-11-29 01:20:49

Drewbacca: "Pricing, price increase due to the Democratic Party.

Thank Them


No interest in this builder. Thanks for showing me that.


I hope to buy used to be honest. Nothing better than recycling. Lots of great bikes are around. Just need to find one that fits me and it what I am looking for.


Thanks again for great input.


2012-11-29 03:30:48

They are not local, but I ran across this site that has some older bikes & parts. Something might show up that interests you.

http://oldroads.com/


marko82
2012-11-29 03:46:17

"Maybe he raised prices because the price of stock tubing and other items he uses to build bikes went up and he is blaming the democratic party for that?"


I thought that a series of tubes

was a GOP thing... (RIP Sen. Stevens).


"I hope to buy used to be honest. Nothing better than recycling."


Agreed. All three of my current bicycles are second hand steel (1977 motobecane, 1998 Schwinn Paramount, and 2002 Trek 520).


If you do consider new, and lugs aren't a requirement, you might want to check out Milwaukee Bicycles. It's American steel (true temper ox platinum... same treatment as Reynolds 853) and built by Waterford... and you get to pick the paint color... for $700, it's a great deal (if you have that kind of money available for a frame).


Also, Specialized has a steel tricross out now and Kona has the Rove.


Maybe a Lemond with canti's will show up on ebay. I saw a beautiful 853 steel Jamis Nova on ebay just a few weeks ago, but it was on the small side.


Maybe expand your search? I keep seeing this great Waterford steel cross bike showing up on the Chicago CL but it is a really odd custom job with a low standover and reach made for a monkey.


headloss
2012-11-29 04:03:23

Do you know if he raised his prices because of the election solely? Maybe he raised prices because the price of stock tubing and other items he uses to build bikes went up and he is blaming the democratic party for that?


just going by what he said, it seems the election results are all that matter when it comes to prices. i'd like to think i'm pretty tolerant when it comes to political views, but if you're just itching to inject yours into every single discussion, i probably won't want to talk to you. if i'm just trying to buy a bike, what the hell do i care about how obama's ruining the country? just show me the bleedin' bikes, and tell me how much you're charging.


hiddenvariable
2012-11-29 06:23:20

If you are buying a bike on politics, I

would really like to see what shoes you

are wearing...

http://www.circleacycles.com/

These guys are a worker owned collective.

Probably smells bad in the shop.


steevo
2012-11-29 13:44:32

"If you are buying a bike on politics, I

would really like to see what shoes you

are wearing..."


You're missing the point. The man is entitled to his political beliefs... that isn't the problem. The problem is that he is shouting them from the rooftops and undermining what should be the focus of his site (bicycles). If he can't bite his tongue on his business webpage, why would I expect any different if I actually stopped by his shop? Frankly, I can't stand political bs; it's irrelevant which side of the spectrum someone falls on. If your bicycles are tainted with politics, I'm going to avoid them.


headloss
2012-11-29 15:48:18

So it's cool to wear clothes or shoes that are made by people in terrible conditions who are being taken advantage of as long as the company doesn't tell you about it?


Its not cool to buy a bike from a guy because he doesn't like your politics and you don't like his and he told you about. I see now.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-29 16:33:17

No one's saying you shouldn't buy a bike from Mezzatesta. It's just that his website basically says, "hey Democrats, go f@#$ yourselves", and so some Democratic leaning folks would rather take their business elsewhere. What's wrong with that?


willb
2012-11-29 17:44:39

I usually wear my chucks from 1994, as beaten up as they are, I won't buy new ones. Does that count as being ok? For someone who has slowly been making an effort to purchase products that are the least harmful to manufacture, there are certain things that just deter me from having an interest in, even if it is only crazy statements.


stefb
2012-11-29 18:46:14

"Its not cool to buy a bike from a guy because he doesn't like your politics and you don't like his and he told you about. I see now."


Glad that you get it, even if you are putting words in my mouth... who said that political stance was the only determining factor? If you really want to discuss shoes, start a new thread and I'll meet you there.


headloss
2012-11-29 19:41:46

if he had a banner on his site proclaiming that the democrat's policies were bad for the economy and encouraging people to vote republican, i wouldn't have a problem with it. i'd disagree with him and if he started a conversation with me about it i'd happily debate him, but i would still buy a bike. the thing about this that rubs me the wrong way is that he is using his politics as a scapegoat for raising prices for whatever actual reason, wether due to rising costs or opportunistic spite. if he had just raised his prices and not said anything about it i doubt anyone would have even noticed.


cburch
2012-11-29 23:19:49

Part of the reason I ride a bike is that I do not like the political positions of oil companies. Sometimes the only vote you have is with your wallet.


mick
2012-11-29 23:24:37

Why any business owner would engage in politics in such a confrontational way is beyond me. How could it possibly help your business to offend 50% of the market?


atleastmykidsloveme
2012-11-30 01:05:55

I believe the recent percentage was just above 50%.


helen-s
2012-11-30 02:17:35

I agree with Mick. I view each of my dollars as votes. I'd also guess they are more powerful than any of my votes for politicians have been.


2012-11-30 05:08:44

For the record, I can't buy a bike from that guy. I just don't care for the "war on coal" people much. No interest in calling him. Good luck to him though, as blind as he might be.


2012-11-30 05:35:34

Drewbacca sorry for that last comment it was too much.


I do think that builder making that comment is dumb if he wants democrats business but I would bet he doesn't want your business and is fine with that.


People have the right to not buy his bikes.

I think comments like that are what is wrong with our political system and maybe even our country.


I also think comments like "There are political views that people hold that are outright harmful to others.. And bullshit." and "BS should not be used to gouge customers on price just because he is angry about election results." are part of the problem. How is his political view harmful to people? How do you know he is gougeing customers at all and not just raising prices because of costs that he incurs?


That builder being completely intollerant of democrats is ridiculous but people on this board having a knee jerk reaction to that and making statements like the ones about is ridiculous as well.


Here is a radio show from this american life about this

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/478/red-state-blue-state


People need to hear all sides and not completely write people off before they hear the whole story. That goes for all sides republicans democrats liberterains and whoever else.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-30 15:17:58

Does anybody know this guy well enough to ask him why he put that on his website? We're all guessing it's because of health insurance but I can't get the numbers to work right in my head. So far, at least, Obamacare's impact on health insurance has been minimal, I think, and I'll bet that as a small employer he will see little to no impact in the long run. But maybe there's a little known tax on lugs or something like that that he's objecting to.


jonawebb
2012-11-30 15:34:17

I don't have any issue with him putting it on his website, that's his business.

Neither do I have a problem with folks ridiculing the shit out of it either. As someone said, he put it out there...

I actually don't have a problem with ridiculing the shit out of just about anything. This is 'murica! (sadly the Brits still do it better).

I kind of prefer knowing his stance. I am not and will never realistically be in a position to have him do a frame, so saying I would not buy a frame due to this is pointless. But it is the sort of thing that would make a difference to me. Even apart from his wacky "God..." yadayada that he's always had up.

I did dig the Circle A Cycles website, thx for that.


edmonds59
2012-11-30 16:50:02

He has enough bike orders to fund him well into retirement.


He doesn't care what you think.


rice-rocket
2012-11-30 17:03:57

If he truly does not care what people think why bother to put up a blurb like that?

Or maybe it's just a whiney little mini-tantrum? Yeah, I think that's it.


edmonds59
2012-11-30 17:12:53

I'm pretty sure Rice Rocket still thinks we are talking about RIchard Sachs.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-30 17:30:45

I have other questions about Richard Sachs.


edmonds59
2012-11-30 17:37:54