BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Even better:

From: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/422567-After-you-see-this-you-will-never-Whine-about.....

Here's another one (source image is HUGE).

Eric, did you ever hook a rack up to your moto?

I built this one a few years ago:

It hooks onto a jessie rack and quick releases in a few seconds so that the hard bag can go back on.

If I get a motorcycle this fall I'm going to need one that can hold a downhill bike.

Will Stef let you get a bike?

No.

Eric from Dirt Rag has one, not sure the make/model though. I'll bug him about it.

yes. she already said yes and can not take it back now.

you two are too cute.

I tried to talk my husband into letting me get a Vespa or something similar to putter around on instead of the car. His repsonse was that he still loves me even though I'm such a Eurodork, and likes being married to me too much to say yes.

Thing is, I rode on a motorcycle once with a friend, and never got the courage to open my eyes. Wouldn't work if I was driving.

Jen isn't fully sold on the scooter yet, though she does use it when the kids aren't in tow. I wish she'd ride it more, so I can then pitch an upgrade to something like this.

bjanaszek, that cb160 is freaking awe some. Gives me lust. And in Portland. One more reason for me to hate and envy Portland.

Rack-wise, I like photo #2 the best, the Kaw with the mtn bike, because it reduces the volume of the bike the most. But still there has to be a better way to do that.

The rest I am unimpressed with.

ejwme, passengering on a motorcycle is scarier and takes much more guts than actually riding one.

edmonds - really? I suppose I could use that to make me appear less chicken, but I still think I was meant for a slower paced world. I'm a putterer at heart.

I am surprised that there's no widely commercially available motorcycle bike rack solution - motorcycles seem to garner as much or more obsession and hobby budget as bicycles, pointing to an obvious if niche market.

speak of the devil, sometimes i wonder if he lurks here... Husband just asked what I thought of this: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/151/0/home.aspx

I think it is a scooter, about which I know nothing. What do you people who know so much more than me think of it?

Dunno much about those Yamahas, but keep your eyes on Craigslist for used Honda Metropolitans. Hard to go wrong with those. Sometimes Vespas come up, too, with reasonable price tags.

From what I've heard 50cc scooters are ok on city streets but a bit underpowered for main suburban roads. 125cc is enough unless you want to get on the freeway.

so I guess the moral of the story is if the wife has given me a greenlight to buy a bike I should go do it before she changes her mind?

although, by "bike" I probably mean "Vespa". I might even put hot pink pedals on it.

ej, it's a Zuma, which are very cool. Basically a scooter with slightly broader mission, street legal, but it has fat, wide tires so they can do a little light off-roading, fire roads and trails and such. Plenty o fun.

They can be had with a 50cc two stroke engine (think, weed-whacker), or a 125cc four stroke engine. Wouldn't advise much use in traffic with the 50.

I <3 Yammies.

The last couple of years, every beat-down Vespa (I mean the real Italian ones) I've seen for sale has been vastly overpriced, because they've been "hot".

@ejwme Funny, I have a 2009 Zuma of the 125cc, four-stroke variety. It's great for getting around the city, though it tops out around 55mph. Very easy to ride, reliable so far, and a lot of fun, though I prefer shifting gears myself (it has a CVT transmission, so no clutch or shifter). I got it used off craigslist for a song. Any questions about it in particular?

Just for kicks I'll reveal a dirty little secret, my playhouse,,,I mean, garage;



The only thing I don't use there is the golf clubs, those are not mine.

i'm going to get stef a scooter when i get a bike...

I have a 50cc Honda Met. It is absolutely fine in the city. It accelerates quickly enough, aside from steep hills.

In the 'burbs, it isn't as great. I've ridden most of the way out Frankstown Road, and that wasn't as bad as I thought. As long as the speed limit is under 40mph, you're good to go.

If I can't convince Jen that a motorcycle would be a good idea, we'll probably upsize to a Vespa with a 150cc engine.

An advantage of the little weed whackers is that you don't need a motorcycle license to drive one.

Edmonds, your garage reminds me of something I saw on the ride home yesterday: an old Mercedes utility van, doing double duty as a camper van, with three bikes and a moped on the rear hitch rack, and a moto in the van.

He, he, my kinda people.

Well, with the scooters, I'm not sure how much use it would get if it didn't hit 45mph - couldn't ride it to work, and even hubby couldn't take it to kung fu (ARB stands between him and the school). It's like a fast bicycle, so maybe groceries, yoga, trips into town on roads I'd normally bike on.

If it goes 45 or faster, it's requiring a motorcycle license and I believe exceeds my comfort levels for myself and hubby (who probably would do just fine, I just *REALLY* like him still). That's one of the appeals of a bike - I stay at speeds that I'm comfortable going.

Aside from the major question of if and where I'd ride it, I think the biggest answerable questions would be storage space and passanger capacity. Does adding a passanger mean that the previous top speed of 30mph is now 15 mph? And does it have at least as much carrying capacity as my panniers?

Oh - and I just realized something funny. I'm writing off a moped with a top speed of 35 because the speed limit on roads I'd take it is 45, but I am willing and able and consider it perfectly normal to ride a bike on said roads. The irony isn't lost, it just got misplaced for a sec.

My Met probably could take a passenger, but it would seriously lower the speeds. I don't think it's really built for it.

I can, however, carry stuff. Often, I've been using it on the weekends to do food shopping. There's a fairly large compartment under the seat, plus a small rear rack, plus space between my feet. Combined with a backpack, I can manage the week's groceries for a family of four without too much trouble. And I don't even have to hang bags from the handlebars

I don't believe a motorcycle license has anything to do with speed. I believe the requirement is that anything over 50cc is considered a motorcycle.

I have a Vespa but only really use it around town as I have no needs to head out to the burbs.

ej, you have somehow intuitively zeroed in on a key crux of the matter - the range/speed/capabilities of a small scooter are really not a great enough leap from a fast bicycle to be useful, to be honest. Unless someone just likes scooters. Throw in the necesities of gas, licensing, maintenance, and sometimes just getting the dang thing to run - if I really had to make a call, a nice elec assist cargo bike might actually be more functional, maybe, I haven't tried one of those. No offense to scooter users.

Lou - you're right, it's not speed, but nothing under 50cc (by my super cursory search) will go much over 40mph.

edmonds - the thing that's kept me from a bike assist is the range too, and that "but when I run out of juice that's the equivalent of a small toddler in extra weight to haul around but isn't nearly as cute" factor. Maybe half a small toddler, but still. Everything keeps pointing me back to "but I could, and would, do that on a bicycle"

Range issues, you say? What stinking range issues?

No offense taken

Hindsight being 20-20 and all, if you're getting motorized two wheel transport, a 150cc scooter seems to be the way to go.

On a scooter gas is a minimum...I push 70 mpg and as far as registration and inspection that is maybe 50 bucks a year. Maintainence is usually at a minimum too...well that is unless you have a 2 stroke Vespa like mine, but I am pretty mechanically inclined so I guess I don't ever worry about it. Newer models are pretty reliable. To be honest you don't have to think about them much.

Oh, I have no doubt much is possible on a scooter - I harbor a dream of riding my bike with my little family (trailer for the pup and cats, hubby and trailer for our minimalist "stuff") as we relocate to the PNW across the country. I know we could do it (and really hope we get to). That is very different from the daily requirements I've whined WAY too many times about to rehash. I bore MYSELF, so you guys must want to smack me.

>50cc is motorcycle-ish territory, and maybe the most sensible choice if we move in that direction, since <50cc seems to be bicycle equivalent and we already have and use those

@ej The 125 I have can handle 40-45 with a passenger, no problem. (Your passenger must then also be willing to go 45, however).It probably drops the top speed to around 50, and less on hills, though.

It still is a limiting factor, and you do need the M license to ride it.

Ok, then, here's what you need, a Piaggio MP3 250. because

a. it's awesome

b. it's a lot different from a bicycle

c. the other engineer nerds at your company will worship you

d. it's awesome



That's my advice.

Ah...or wait for this (maybe)...you'll be even cooler.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/27/yamaha-tesseract-four-wheeled-motorcycle-in-development/

Oh, that's low profile.

I can just see coming out of a turn on one back wheel.

I may need one.

I've always like the idea of scooters but as edmonds says, I just can't figure out when I would really use it over a bicycle. The 150cc threshold sounds sensible. I can imagine some work commutes (>10 miles and/or faster roads maybe) where it would make sense.

Yeah, I had no idea about the 50cc thing until a few weeks ago and if the scooter shop wasn't closed on Sunday I probably would have run out and bought one. But, I've since decided 150cc is a better idea and just haven't had a chance to go get my permit.

I've been debating selling my car for a long time, and I think replacing it with a scooter will allow me to do it. Sometimes I just don't feel like riding my bicycle - or probably more to the point I can't convince my wife to bicycle. So, the scooter would be good for those situations. I'm hoping the maintenance is cheaper than a car and that it's easier to park. Plus it will free up some space in my garage for bicycles so I don't have to keep them in the basement.

Salty - if you go that route, get a big kryptonite u lock for that too, people f with scooters. And at night, lock it to an immovable object.

Ninja 250 is a great choice if you want something a little more sporty, fast enough to get in trouble, great on gas and around town. My only complaint about them is they quickly make you realize how much you want to get a bigger bike.

@edmonds A guy on a local street racing message board Im on has one of those MP3s in 500cc's, he loves that thing.

Theres also a gy with a turbocharged Can-Am Spyder

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2687/spydernewtirecopy.jpg

http://scootershop.bizshop.com.au/images/g2.jpg

Yeah, I need to scam a test ride on a Spyder. Seems like it would be sick times on a road track.

@salty, I may be stating the obvious, but don't forget that it gets real cold on a scooter with wind chill. If you mostly bike anyway, maybe you aren't that worried about the winter car alternative. There are some really cool products though that help like hippo hands and heated lap blankets.

@ejwme- the motorcycle safety course is easy and fun, you and the H should take it together and then you get to test for your license on the last day....after which you buy your motorcycle and tow your stuff across the country and live happily ever after

I ride my bicycle all winter, and even when I used to drive every day I'd put the top down at basically any temperature - although that's easier with a windshield and good heater. Plus I can always get a Zipcar if I need to take a longer trip and/or it's cold/wet/etc. I keep my car around even though I've driven it <500 miles in the past year because it is convenient sometimes. A scooter would cover the bulk of those cases.

Anyways, I just read through the motorcycle manual (which is surprisingly well-written especially for a state publication) and aced the practice test. I'm going to go take the test tomorrow and maybe buy myself a Vespa or a Stella.

Where can you get a Stella around here?! The closest place I knew of is in Cleveland.

mosites in n. huntingdon claims to carry them, but i've never been there.

Anyone interested in a scooter really needs to check out the Aprilia SR50R Factory (Aprilia is a Italian motorcycle company owned by Piaggio, like Vespa). Last year there were days that I rode mine over 90 for work related things. It was a tank's worth of gas, but only a $3-$4 fill up.

Its only 49cc, I've had mine (which is mildly modded and now Kaylas) up to around 50 mph on flat ground, 63 mph down a nice hill. It also has front and rear double piston Brembo disk brakes, it's water cooler, computer controlled, direct injected, and a utter blast to ride.

Kayla also occasionally rides it to Mars to her Dad's house--not something all 50cc scoots can do, but goes to show that you can't judge a bike by its displacement.

I got my ex a Honda Metropolitan and it was nice, but it really wasn't great for anything but short (under 5 mile) trips, generally.

Another thing to consider with scooters is most modern scooters have CVT transmissions that use a system of roller weights and springs. Geography and rider weight can play a huge part in how the transmission should be setup. It can be tedious and time consuming, but a CVT that is tuned properly can make a scooter seem like a completely different bike from stock.

If you are looking at used scooters, especially Italian ones, disregard mileage.

Many low mile scoots, especially Vespas, experience problems because they weren't ridden enough. Keep in mind that scooter are made to be daily transport--like how they are ridden in the rest of the world. In the US a bulk of the used scooters on the markets are bikes that people bought, got through the break-in period and got sick of them (probably because the went into it with the wrong idea).



MOST IMPORTANTLY: Even if you can legally ride a scooter without a license, I highly recommend getting your M-class permit and taking the PA Motorcycle Safety Program. It's FREE and offers a lot of great information to any level rider.

Also, if anyone on here gets a Can Am Spyder, we are no longer friends.

ejwme, you should talk to Kayla about her Aprilia. If you are super nice to her, she may let you ride it.

They look nice (and Mosites has them too) so I'll definitely check them out.

I was thinking 50cc initially but talked myself into 150cc just to handle the hills (and my fat ass) a little better.

I got mine at Mosites. I have had mixed experiences with them as a dealer, but I would definitely do business with them again.

One thing I forgot to mention about the SR50 is it comes restricted from the factory. It's easy to de-restrict, perfectly legal, and won't void the warranty. It's mainly because it's a European market bike. It's just a matter of taking a washer out of the front pulley, a plate out from behind the intake manifold, and then the ECU needs re-flashed. Mosites did mine for free.

Since it's a direct injected two-stoke, maintenance it pretty easy. Besides the usual brakes, gear oil, ect... it just takes about a liter of injection oil every 1500-2000 miles.

Also, insurance on it is dirt cheap. Before Geico started a minimum premium, I was paying ~$7/month. Now I have Kayla on it, and me on my CB350 for just about $9/month.

As much as my 15 y.o. son thinks a Spyder would be the perfect vehicle for me, it's not going to happen, so I think we can still be friends.

If I get a new vehicle anytime soon, it's going to be a (new) Fiat 500.

Nick, do you know anything about the Genuine "Buddy's"? They look pretty cool.

I think the Buddy is at the top of my list at the moment, especially if I can get a good deal on a (discontinued) 150. Although if they have a 170i I might go that way.

Btw, I assume that Mosites is the same guy who owns the Trek of Pittsburgh stores?

Ditto on the MSF class. The classroom time is a bit of a snooze but you get to spend six hours on a bike doing drills with instructors, well worth the time if you're new. And you'll get your full M license at the end.

Wow, I forgot the sheer joy of going to the dmv. The supervisor is apologizing and as far as I can tell only 1 of the 4 test machines is operating. I think I might have to try another day.

This should be some sort of advertisment for riding bicycles.

I've ridden a Buddy. It wasn't anything to write home about. It wasn't bad by any means--it just wasn't anything special.

The biggest downside to non-Italian scooters seems to be resale value. Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia (the biggest state-side Italian brands) seem to keep their value much better than any Asian scoots.

On the other side, getting parts for Asian bikes seems to be much easier than Italian ones.

Sometimes I just don't feel like riding my bicycle

This is precisely why we bought a scooter.

If you are serious about the SR50, Xtreme Powersports in Deep Creek, MD had them for $2600 out the door, brand new 2009s. They had one white one and one black one when I was down there.

wow... that's a lot of information...

check on the safety course, hubby wanted to take it too so that will be fun.

So the Aprilia has me thinking I need to actually do some real research and thinking (hubby also sent me a follow up email listing all the things we'd use it for and that I could drive it to work? I might need to jump on this before he changes his mind)

But at $2-3k a pop, new, these things are really affordable (especially compared to cars) - how come they're not more popular?

Because, unlike cars, they still require a bit of motivation to use when it isn't sunny and warm.

I rode our scooter throughout the winter (no snow, though). It's all about layers. Next purchase will be a rain suit.

And, Nick, thanks for all that info on the Aprilia. It appears they make a few other interesting models, too.

I put $3.00 of premium gas in the Aprilia the other day. I made round trips from Oakland to Mars, Monroeville, and Squirrel Hill (with some errand running/scenic routes thrown in) before the low fuel light came on.

So much fun!

well, my dream of riding home on a scooter didn't come true, but I do have my permit after only 2.5 hours or so at the DMV. it was painless aside from the wait, read the manual at the web site - they give you all the questions in the back.

i got to mosites just before they closed - they don't have a whole lot in stock, most of what they did have was vespas. sales guy said they sell scooters faster than they can get them. he's going to call me monday with a date for a buddy 170i, although they also have some 07/08 vespa gts 250s that they're looking to unload. i dunno, i don't want to keep moving up but being able to carry passengers would be nice.

Those 50cc scooters are a pet peeve to me. They are not good for Pittsburgh. Our streets are too steep. They will get up and down the hills but you will piss off a lot of drivers while you are doing it because they can't pass you like you are on a bike. The other thing is a bigger motor can help you get out of a sticky spot, like a car is trying to crowd you out, you can hit the throttle and be out of there in a split second on a bigger bike. Also, just because you can drive a 50cc without a licence does not make it a good idea. The same way it is legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

The motorcycle safety class will have you riding 250cc bikes, use that as a gauge. With a 250 if you want to run down the parkway for a few exits, you can, if you want to take a road like 5th ave, you can keep up with traffic.

A couple bikes that are great for getting around the city are the Kawasaki super Sherpa or the KLX250s, the Yamaha Wr250s or x. These are all dual sport bikes, they can hop curbs and take Pittsburgh pot holes with ease. A true street bike like the ninja 250 can be difficult to ride in an urban environment.

I got the SR50R Fectory when gas was up a few years ago. I lucked out and walked in the day they got 3 in--2 were already sold, so I let impulse take over and bought it. The year after when gas went down, Mosites was filled with scooters.

Another thing I didn't mention about he SR50R Factory is the Piaggio direct-injected Orbital two-stroke engine is one of the world's cleanest burning, most efficient production engines ever. If anyone is a SAE member, there is a pretty good paper about it on there website for a few bucks.

Hmmm, that might be a potential vehicle for some commuting to Moraine State Park I might want to do in the future

Can they be driven quietly at low speed? (I was thinking of this as my obnoxious neighbor sped by to stop at a stop sign twenty feet away)

Definitely not quiet.

With the stock exhaust its much quieter. Kaylas SR50 has a Leo Vince Handmade ZX exhaust that has had the European homologation restrictors removed and all of the silencer fiberglass has burned out.

It also depends on your definition of quiet. Silent? No, not at all.

Not obnoxious? Can be done, at least in the case of my Yamaha at slower speeds.

And old man safety note: Nick/Kayla, anyone, if you're riding a piped scooter or motorcycle any significant length of time, longer than little hops around town, you should use those foam stuff-in ear plugs. Over time the engine noise and wind will definitely damage your hearing. They reduce fatigue on long rides too. Get a big box of them, they're good for all kinds of things.

I've got one of these:

http://2x2cycles.com/products/bicycle-rack/

I packed for an overnight in ANF last weekend, ended up taking the rack off in favor of a top box for more secure storage. Pulled both wheels off the bike and strapped it crosswise to the luggage rack and box, worked well.

I thought about the scooter route too, can't believe how expensive those things are used. Ended up on a big dual sport (KLR650) for $1200. Gets about 50 miles a gallon easy, can do 65 for miles on the highway, dirt roads, carries bunches of stuff. Might take it to NYC next weekend.

I think a smaller 250 dualsport would be a perfect beginner bike.

Don't mind me.

Hmm, just got passed at my bus stop by a can-am spyder. Maybe if I found a used one, rip it apart, and steampunk it...

Nick, throw up a pic of the cb when you get a chance.

see, my car gets 50mpg, so if I'm not going to do appreciably better with a scooter/motorbike/motorcycle, it's not worth the extra cost/effort to own/maintain it.

Nick/Kayla - how do your mods affect the top speed/efficiency of your Aprilla, if at all? I am an anomaly - an engineer blissfully ignorant of all things motored. Going on the only information I have, I have been judging bikes by their displacement - is there a better way to judge what bikes are capable of what (aside from getting on them and trying them out)?

I'm not really the one to answer because I don't quite know, but from what I gather, unmodded ones are a bit better on had but have a much lower maximum speed. Still, I got around 80 miles on less than a gallon of gas, I think. I've never filled up all the way (can't if I use the sidestand) so I don't know for sure the gas mileage.

It isn't just the 50 miles a gallon. It is also less money spent on: tires, oil, parts, registration, insurance, parking. Not to mention if you buy it outright, no monthly payments.

Eric - I wouldn't necessarily be swapping out the car (yet) for a moped, so it doesn't eliminate the car costs for me just yet - making it about 90% about the mileage (for me personally at this point in time - ymmv). The mileage and the top speed would be my personal determining factors in use (since others have explained the storage issues, a bike covers local trips, and the remaining car would cover long distance), and use would be the determining factor in car elimination.

It may not make sense, but that's the decision making criteria and realistic order of events that I can see for us right now.

with the untimely death this weekend of my truck, I'm strongly leaning towards getting a motorcycle. The difference in fuel economy between these two will be huge

Also, a reason to get a hot pink leather jacket. Yessss!

Tabby - if you get a hot pink leather jacket, you will officially be my hero. I'd forgotten that excuse...

And don't forget the bedazzling opportunity of motorcycles: http://www.bikersblingonline.com/Bikers_Bling_Products.php

Would bedazzling a moped be inappropriate?

Would bedazzling a moped be inappropriate?

never!

Surprisingly, I haven't been able to find a pink jacket that's bright enough, more of a baby pink seems more common. I'm on the lookout though.

Oooh, fun website. I really like the LED lights, and they seem like they would really improve side vis which is always something I think about biking too.

I think it is important to distinguish the difference between a moped and a scooter-- mopeds have pedals like a bicycle (get it? MOtorized PEDacycle).

The SR50R Factory in stock form has a top speed of around 40mph. Derestricted, which I elaborated on earlier, they top out in the low-50's on flat ground. With basic mods--pipe, filter, and transmission tuning--they top out in the mid-50's but they accelerate much better.

Transmission tuning is a must for the hills around here. Once it is dialed in, the SR50R is a blast to ride (80-100mpg doesn't hurt either).

Ok, I just picked up a Buddy 170i and I wholeheartedly do not recommend it. I can pretty much guarantee that I will not be riding my bicycle to work tomorrow - hopefully it doesn't become a habit.

Don't worry, Todd, it will. I have been riding my bike to work much less--when I work at 5:30 in the morning I can get an extra 20 minutes of sleep, and when it's really hot or humid, I don't have to get sweaty riding.

Well, I'm lucky that my commute is short and mostly downhill, and the only uphill is at the start. So, I don't have to get too sweaty, and I honestly can't get there any faster by scooter (or car). Any time I lose on the uphill I make back by being able to cut the corner at 5th and Penn and not having to deal with the parking garage. So, at least I don't have *that* much temptation to do it.

But, I did have an absolute blast riding the scooter home and I can't wait to go ride it some more...

hmm.... ok please forgive me if I ask a stupid question here, but as I am feeling exceedingly dense this week - Nick, after those mods it gets 80-100 mpg? And what would those mods set me back if I paid someone to do them for me? (not even gonna pretend to go for it myself, not my bag)

A vehicle that could get up to 45 mph and ALSO get 80-100 mpg is worth a lot to me, all bedazzling aside. (assuming it doesn't require more effort/cost in maintenance than my current car)... I think I need to add some additional columns to my commute calculator spreadsheet.

edited to add: I think I picked up inaccurate use of "moped" from bastardized other languages where it meant "two wheels but motorized" (roughly). thank you for the correction!

My commute is only 3 miles, but it's mostly uphill and takes around 15 minutes plus 10-15 minutes to cool down and change. The scoot gets me there in 5 minutes.

Where'd you get yours?

@ejwme--From what I've read, the unmodded SR50s are a little better on gas--better than 80-100mpg. Nick will be able to provide a much better explanation later though.

Just an FYI for those who work in Downtown, there is FREE motorcycle parking under the bridge here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Pittsburgh,+Pennsylvania+15206&ll=40.438955,-79.993952&spn=0.000549,0.00284&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.43895,-79.99391&panoid=98sHo8Ieu-VBzlSEYwk9mQ&cbp=11,14.82,,0,8.92

Fills up VERY quickly in the morning though, fortunately a Vespa doesn't take up much space.

that reminded me Lou, (W) has "priority" parking for "green" vehicles. My diesel that gets 50 mpg doesn't qualify (but some hybrid SUVs that get less than half that DO), but a scooter would. There's a couple motorcycles that get there early and park across the line sideways, ensuring that at least three more motorcycles get priority spaces (there is NO motorcycle parking, a need expressed very strongly to the architect and then ignored). I could totally see people getting irritated that my little moped took an entire priority spot from their (relative) guzzler, or getting a laugh from parking it beside the Harleys.

Could be worth it just for that.

@Lou I usually park in that lot - when there is a space. Do you have any recommendations of alternatives on that side of town that aren't too expensive for when it is full?

kayla - I got it at Mosites on 30, I think Nick said that's where yours came from too?

ejwme - a lot of scooter types seem to track their mileage online, i.e. fuelly.com. You'll see various small scooters claim 80-140 mpg but I don't have a good feel for what the reality is. I'm sure much more so than a car it depends on the rider's weight and terrain. The bike I just bought is listed at 90mpg (and "60+ mph") but I'm sure it's not going to get that kind of mileage with me on it.

That is indeed where it came from. That's a fun little ride back to the city.

The most I ever got on the SR was 111 mpg. The mods are mostly for speed and acceleration, but they do help with efficiency. I've heard of stock ones getting up to 100 and modded ones getting up to 120.

As for cost, you may be able to negotiate derestriction into the price. Exhausts are usually between 200-300, but sometimes they pop up on eBay cheaper.

Other parts vary on price. One of the only downsides to the SR is parts availability is lacking in the states. Beyond basic mods, most parts need to be imported from Italy or Germany (Germans are real big on "scooter tuning"-google it). Although, most of what you would be interested in can be sources from AF1 or Highgain Tuning, both in the states.

I would happily help you with labor.

That being said, if you get one, you should touch it (mod-wise) until its broken in. It's a pretty high-revving precision engine, and not breaking it in properly will not be good for it at all.

Heh. I struggle with the scooter/bike dilemma every day it is nice out. Much like Kayla, I can get to and from work faster, and I don't sweat. And last night, I managed to convince myself to ride my bike today, but now....I'm not so sure.

My impression was that is legal to park a scooter anywhere you could park a bicycle. Can anyone speak to that?

@bjanaszek Maybe if its under 50cc you can park anywhere, but don't take my word on it. If it is a licensed motorcycle (classification) then no.

@HoffmannJ I have no other options on that side of town. I have been lucky in that there are maybe 4 spots left when I get there in the morning and I have to squeeze in. I have seen striped motorcycle parking at the SW corner of Grant and Forbes in that lot so it might be considered paid parking.

The only thing that stopped me from buying an SR50 was the fact that it really wasnt any more financially practical than driving. I figured it would save me ~$100 a month on gas assuming that I didnt drive my truck at all, I have to have my truck so theres no other savings to be had as far as insurance and such. So about 24 months and it would pay for itself. Then I factored in that I wouldnt be able to ride it for more than a total of about 4 months a year, it made less and less sense to buy it purely for commuting. They arent fast enough for me to consider it a toy so at this point Im probably better off buying a motorcycle.

A coworker told me: do not park a scooter on the sidewalk in the city unless you want a very expensive ticket. I don't think displacement matters. Mopeds might be OK, not sure. But, its definitely up to local laws.

All I can say is it's a very slippery slope from bike commuting every day to basically spending 10 years off your bike. There is a good reason the majority of the population drives to work - it's very tempting. I don't want to go back, I feel like I lost an important part of my life when I stopped riding and didn't really realize it until I started riding again.

That being said, if everyone rode a scooter instead of driving a car, I think the world would be a lot less messed up, though bicycling is still way better in my book.

I generally ride from early March to November. Who only ride 4 months a year (besides Harley guys)?

It is deinitely illegal to park a scooter anywhere you wouldn't park a car (unless its private property). I think if its a true moors they can be parked and locks to racks/meters without issue.

My riding time is roughly the same, but I found with the right layering, I could ride on dry days in the winter, as long as the temps hovered right around freezing.

I was researching the parking thing and discovered that in Toronto, motos and scooters don't need to put money in the meters. Score!

While on the (off-)topic, does anyone know the rules about sharing on-street meter spaces with cars in Pittsburgh? I do it sometimes and haven't ever had a problem but I've never seen anything saying explicitly whether it's allowed or not.

I'm not sure. I've never parked in a spot with a car already there, but I have gotten back to my spot to find a car sharing it with me (usually a small car that the driver had to really squeeze into the spot).

I meant 4 months as if you were to add up all the days they would probably total 4-5 months. Riding in rain isnt something I would really do, especially since I have to wear a suit 5-6 days a week.

ah, see, I'd ride in rain to save the gas. And the cold. It's like a bike, that, sometimes, I wouldn't have to change after (but sometimes would).

The modding and tuning though sound way beyond me. Gonna consult w/hubby and may PM you Nick, thank you for all the advice/information!

I have received a ticket for "sharing" a spot.

In the city I used to live in, motorcyclists would complain because when they shared a metered space, the meterperson wouldn't know who paid and who didn't (obviously they both couldn't plug the meter for the same period of time!) so they just ticket both of them.

How do you deal with the machines that print out tickets when you ride a motorcycle? You can't really lock the ticket under your windshield...

Unfortunately there is a strap on my seat that they neatly tuck it under.

The Aprilia doesn't have a strap, just some handles. I'm not sure what the alarm's tolerance if, but if the meterperson poked around enough looking for a place to put the ticket I could maybe see the alarm going off. Not sure though.

Unfortunately there is a strap on my seat that they neatly tuck it under.

Lou, I mean the ticket machines that have replaced the coil-op meters around Schenley Plaza and in the parking garage in Sq. Hill. You stick your credit card in, it prints a ticket out with a time on it that you put on your dash to prove you paid for parking. If you have no ticket showing, or its expired, they fine you. Would you just stick this on your seat and hope nobody nabs it?

I see. Sorry misunderstood.

Well, strangely enough my morning commute took me 16 miles instead of the usual 2. Maybe the odometer is just off.

ejwme - you could skip modding and tuning and just buy a bike with a bigger engine. AFAICT it doesn't affect mileage that much - you're mostly paying for air resistance regardless of engine displacement.

dwillen - I'd probably do that, and snap a cellphone pic just in case.

I'd just park farther away where it's free... salty, larger is an option, it just changes the licensing/registration scheme a bit.

true, but getting a permit is painless (aside from the 3 hour backup at the penn hills DMV) and as everyone else said taking the (free) safety course is an excellent idea and yields a license. so, as multiple people told me, don't base any decisions on that.

that being said, these things are cheap and fun and there's not much downside to playing around. and i know for a fact that Mosites has a SR50R factory in-stock - go putt around their parking lot and see...

Back to the OT: can you get a bike rack for your scooter?

(sorry back off topic)

EJ, I took the free safety classes two years ago and now have an M designation on my license even though I never went ahead and bought a motorcycle. The classroom stuff is brain-dead boring, but the on-bike training in the parking lot is way cool. They teach you how to do panic stops, deal with debris in the road, tight turns, etc. I had only been on a motorcycle once as a passenger prior to taking the class, but I found my bicycling skills transferred well to most of the drills they had us do, and it wasn’t too intimidating. I highly recommend taking the class even if you are just considering the purchase at this point. It might also help you make up your mind about scooter vs. full motorcycle. I suggest the hubby take it too.

@Eric: Why yes, you can.

Holy Cow, I like the Vespa (Stella) outrigger bike rack better than anything, excellent! I have desired an orange Stella for some time now.

Funny MSF story - I took the Experienced Rider refresher course several years ago, on my GSXR. Had gotten used to braking with 2 fingers on the lever, because that's all you need, ever, but the instructor insisted that I have all 4 fingers on the lever. We did panic stops, and I promptly put the rear wheel 2 1/2 feet in the air right in front of the instructor, and calmly set it down. He allowed me to return to 2 fingered braking.

salty, that's now the plan, thank you!

X2 on getting a ticket for sharing a spot.

What put salt in the wound is that the ticket must have blown away and the simple parking ticket inflated to around $50.

I also got a ticket for parking at the end of the block. It was a $50 something ticket on it's own. Glad that one did not blow away.

keeping this off topic:

Is anyone thinking of signing up for the training classes? they don't give these in the city, and are a PITA to get to the burbs without a car, so if anyone plans on signing up and driving out there, let me know and i can give some gas money or something

you mean the motorcycle classes? i'm definitely going to sign up but i need to figure out the dates after my wife stops putzing around and gets her permit. i'd probably drive since there are 2 (or 3) of us going so i could give you a ride.

@salty, she doesn't need her permit. you're doing all the driving on a closed course and you get licensed at the end, so no permit required if she's not going to be driving outside of class.

ok, keep me in the loop. very interested.

pamsp.com says you need a permit to register for the class?

she wants to get one anyways, it's just a matter of dealing with the dmv.

You do need a permit before taking the class.

weird, I swear I didn't get one. Sorry, must have forgotten, it was like 8 years ago.

If anyone is planning on taking it in July, I have a friend who is an instructor who I highly recommend. Some are much better than others.

Also, plan to be around typical Harley people. they tend to dominate the classes.

So I have a dumb question: they provide the motos for the training? If so, do the instructors assume you have some functional knowledge of how to ride one? Or does it start with "this is how you start the bike...this is how you shift...etc...etc?"

On that page bjanaszek linked to above, if you scroll down, the guy with the rear mounted rack on the Stella said he stopped using it because it made the bike too unstable - so that's a bummer. The side one also looks kinda tricky. I wonder about using a trailer, or maybe even letting the bicycle wheel touch the ground like edmonds' bike/bike towing solution from the other thread.

@bjanaszek, they do provide bikes. I don't know what it's like, but you don't need to ever have been on a bike before.

BTW, I am also happy to report that I rode my bicycle to work today.

Maybe you could rig up a sidecar. Personally, one day I hope to have a scooter that matches our vehicle:

Brian, yeah it's pretty much like that. Zero prior knowledge required.

Welp, with no thanks to Nick, looks like I'll be buying a Suzuki Bandit 400 in the next few weeks. I really want a Ducati Monster but I dont think I want to deal with Italian bike maintenance for my first bike.

Boostuv, I don't know how committed you are to the Bandit, they're great. But. If you wanted a monster, but were scared by maintenance (rightfully), look at a Suzuki sv650, everything good about the Duc, and none of the bad.

The PAMSP basic course requires absolutely nothing but a M-class permit. They do recommend that you are comfortable on a bicycle for balance. However, even that is not required.

When you take the class, don't be afraid to let it be known that you are completely new to riding. Often if the instructor thinks everyone has some experience they will skip over some basic things like what a choke is/ how to use it, what a petcock does, etc...

I have heard quite a few stories of exactly how inexperienced some students have been (included one riding over a hillside and one into a brick wall).

Also, from what I hear, it is rare for a bike not to be dropped in the first minute.

@edmonds: A friend of mine chose the Suzuki over the Ducati as well, and he loves it.

@ Edmonds Im pretty set on the Bandit because 1. They're cheap as hell 2. I love the way they look 3. Insurance is ridiculously cheap. I've looked at SV650s in the past and they are also a solid bike. I almost bought a brand new one last year before I moved up here actually. I found a Bandit about 20 miles from my dads place of business that need an engine rebuild so I think that might be the route I go. My dad does a lot of commercial freight and is trying to find the best way to get it up here if it checks out when he goes to look at it.

Is it the red with the trellis frame? Those are pretty sweet.

I wasn't sure what PAMSP was so I went looking. Except I read it PSAMP. So http://pamsp.com is the relevant one, while http://psamp.com is also local and perfectly SFW but will make you say, but, um, what?

I had a SV650 for a while. It is a very nice bike. I could not get comfortable on rides over 100 miles or so and I did not really like riding a bike that big around the city, so I sold it. Great bike overall and very reliable. Nothing like the ride of a v-twin.

Nate wins the threadjack competition for sure. As jwz sez: I still haven't lost that sense of wonder (for what's on the internets).

my husband has renegged on the "lets get a scooter/motorcycle" idea. Apparently had some traffic experiences that made him extra appreciative of the cage. sigh.

I will never understand mini-pony obsession. the Lil'Sebastion running joke in Parks & Rec was hilarious if only because I don't understand it at all.

that episode was hilarious.

Oh, husband.

Anyway, drool, need, drool...

edmonds, that looks like a reject from Tron. Not the person, he looks like a reject from Mighty Morphing Power Rangers or something. You deserve to be more stylish!

You are right to be afraid of Ducati maintenance.

http://www.ducatisuite.com/maintcharts.html

I've had a Monster for about four years and I love the way it looks and sounds but seriously thinking of selling it and going for a japanese v-twin.

Akira. I now must get the dvd this weekend.

oh those crazy Japanese!

I've been meaning to see that!

It's very good.

Salty, this wasnt you was it...

Pirates' Snyder and wife in Banksville road rage

Thursday, June 16, 2011

By Sadie Gurman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

A Good Samaritan helped subdue a man who police said attacked the wife of injured Pirates catcher Chris Snyder at a Banksville gas station Wednesday afternoon even as the man struggled, bit him and threw a shoe in his direction.

Police said Mr. Snyder, who was a passenger in the car, was unable to intervene because of back surgery he had last week.

The scuffle unfolded around 1 p.m. on Banksville Road near Potomac Avenue after Carla Snyder, who was driving a car with her husband and two small children in it, narrowly avoided the man, who was riding a scooter.

The man, identified as Subhash Arjanbhi Modhwadia, 44, of Scott, then followed Ms. Snyder into a nearby BP gas station and "aggressively threw his scooter" in front of her vehicle, Lt. Shawn Malloy of the Zone 6 station said. She stopped again to avoid hitting him, and he began kicking the car, yelling and screaming, "You almost hit me!"

As Ms. Snyder got out of the car, police said, Mr. Modhwadia broke off the woman's driver-side mirror and started swinging at her. She called for help, drawing the attention of Joe Changle, a passer-by who intervened and told Mr. Modhwadia it was wrong to hit a woman and that he would take him to the ground if he didn't stop, Lt. Malloy said.

When he continued, Mr. Changle tackled Mr. Modhwadia, who bit Mr. Changle's left forearm as the struggle continued. Off-duty city police Officer Arthur Baker, who was driving by, spotted the commotion and stepped in.

But Mr. Modhwadia didn't stop and instead went after them both, police said. At one point, Mr. Modhwadia threw punches at them with a key between his fingers. He also took off his shoe and threw it in their direction before the officer was able to take him to the ground once again.

Police responded and took Mr. Modhwadia into custody. He was charged with aggravated assault, assault, criminal mischief and driving with an invalid license.

Pirates spokesman Brian Warecki, who was with the team in Houston on Wednesday, said Mr. Snyder "was immobile and sitting in the passenger seat of his family vehicle that was stopped when the incident occurred. Thankfully, some bystanders stepped in to subdue the aggressor until the police were able to make the arrest. We are grateful for those bystanders who stepped up to assist Chris to ensure no physical harm was done to his wife and children."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11167/1154135-53.stm#ixzz1PRz57WgR

Oh and I went and took the permit test today at the Penn Hills DMV, in and out in literally 15 minutes. I scheduled my MSF course for:

Tue, Jul 12, 2011: 6:00 PM - 8:45 PM

Sun, Jul 17, 2011: 8:00 AM - 1:00 PM

Tue, Jul 19, 2011: 6:00 PM - 8:45 PM

Sun, Jul 24, 2011: 8:00 AM - 1:00 PM

If anyone wants to join me.

The scuffle unfolded around 1 p.m. on Banksville Road near Potomac Avenue after Carla Snyder, who was driving a car with her husband and two small children in it, narrowly avoided the man, who was riding a scooter.

Not that it would excuse this guy's road rage, but give me a break. Almost everyone who "narrowly avoids" me while I'm out riding my bike is a dangerous a-hole and usually has a cell phone in one hand and a hamburger in the other. That, or they are "narrowly avoiding" me on purpose.

+1 dwillen. That was my first thought as well.

first two thoughts were: she could have given the guy more room while passing, and who the hell gets out of their car when a nutjob is screaming and throwing vehicles at it? You roll up the windows, you dial 911, and you don't make eye contact. Getting out of the lovely steel cage at that point only escalates a crappy situation.

This is beyond wondering if it was really worth breaking the Universal Rule: Don't Bite People.

Yup, picked her up tonight. 3200 miles and in perfect showroom condition.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264708_1468050619977_1194900097_31494341_2712431_n.jpg

I know some people were looking at Genuine Stellas. I just got an email from Mitch of the Scootin Yinzers who says Mosites has a 2009 with 7 miles for $2,199!

Wow, that is a deal - I might have to go buy that one too. Once I get rid of the car I'll have all this extra space to fill...

+1 to the Japanese V-twins. They're actually a good compromise between city riding needs and longer range. They do heat up a bit while sitting in traffic, but not as bad as i-4's. V-twins have torque at low RPM and can accelerate you out of a bad situation quickly. The SV650 also handle pretty well through turns at any speed, and aren't too heavy. I do want a scooter, but have come to the same conclusion as far as what a scooter can do that a bike can't. For me it made more sense to have the capability of a standard motorcycle in addition to mostly bike commuting. The compromise of a motorcycle instead of a scooter is only getting 50mpg, but that is obviously still way better than the average car.

Look for me on a yellow SV with a "My other bike is a bike" sticker on the tail fairing.

A couple of times in the last few weeks, while sitting on the bus on the way to work, two young guys on old cafe'd out Japanese bikes have passed across on Commonwealth Blvd going toward Blvd of the Allies. Verrry cool. This is all causing desires and longings to bubble up that I have worked long and hard to try to kill and suppress. buh. Sucks to be old.

Here's a production motorcycle bike rack from 2x2 Cycles that Justin just reviewed for Dirt Rag

http://www.dirtragmag.com/webrag/first-impression-2x2-cycles-motorcycle-bicycle-rack

Nick and I were just discussing these the other day. Trying to figure out how to build one for my new motorcycle. I cant imagine how ridiculous a carbon tri bike is going to look on the side of my safety cone.

After my bike is back on the road, we can sketch something up and order the steel for it.

2x2 also makes a motorcycle golf bag carrier

I borrowed a friends "harley davidson" 65 cc motorcycle once. I think the maximum speed by governor was 27 mph- which in Pittsburgh is far slower than trafiic on 25mph speed limit roads.

It could do 27 on a moderate up slope - like Forbes in Uptown or between Murray and Shady.

I had to push it up Sycamore once. I was skinny back then, too.