BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

If I am passing someone who I think is unaware of me, and could quickly move to the left in the time that it takes to pass them, I say, "On your left...Thanks"

The one issue (that you mentioned) I have with this is a surprising number of people do not know which side is there left. I have almost had accidents from saying "on your left!" and having pedestrians jump to the left quickly, or a group of people just scattering all over.

With all of the less-than-experienced/educated bike riders in Oakland, I try to let other people on bikes know that I am passing too (Mainly because many don't keep a line). I feel that it is polite, but I once had a guy look back at me and almost hit a parked car.

I think some confusion isn't left vs. right but whether you're saying "I'm on your left" or "move left". In either case the goal is to say it early enough that people turn around and see you coming. I basically call out if I think it's dangerous to pass unannounced.

slow down and ring the bell... let them decide... bike bells are amazing tools!

I always announce myself unless the pedestrian is on the far right keeping to a predictable, straight line. Usually they're wondering back and forth or smack in the middle of the trail (or four side by side?), so I'll give them a "on your left".

9/10 times this works. They usually turn around and see me, then move. The experienced runners don't bother turning around and just move without looking back. Every once and a while someone will jump to the left.

The other 10% are people with iPods turned up too loud to hear me shout "on your left" or the folks walking their dogs with 30 foot leashes, who (instead of moving their end of the leash to the same side of the path as the dog) stop, stand there and try to reel the dog in like they've got a big fish. It makes me giggle to myself every time.

"Behind you" and "Hi, folks!" seem to work pretty well.

I say "On your left"...sometimes "Bike on your left". And I try to say thanks if they moved over.

On a related note, on the occasion that 2nd Ave near the Greenfield Eliza Furnace trail head is too busy and I end up going in that barrier-enclosed walkway, I always shout "Incoming!" while going around the corner. I try to avoid going that way though.

I tried a bell once, but the darn thing kept "dinging" every time I went over even a nominal bump. Plus I don't have a lot of extra real estate on my handlebars at the moment.

There's a nonzero chance that I was the biker.

When I'm on trails that are generally used by more savvy bikers and pedestrians (YRT/GAP, etc), I call out "On your left!" On the trail through Manchester, most of the time that I say that, the pedestrian steps to their left, which just makes things worse. I ring my bell, but that doesn't seem to register with a lot of people or bikers. So, I often use my judgement about whether I think it's likely that "On your left" will make the right thing or the wrong thing happen.

In that intersection at 2nd Ave that gimpPAC mentions, I never ride through that chute. It feels to me like a trap - I see bikers riding it both ways. Instead, I just make the left onto 2nd, waiting for an opening. The placement of the traffic lights guarantees that the wait is never long.

To me, when passing pedestrians, or slower cyclists,the important thing is a friendly, responsible attitude. That's the willingness to be delayed a second or two and the concern for both the safety and the perception of safety of the people you pass.

The specifics of whether you ring, or call out, or even stop and put your foot down, will come naturally out of that.

Same as cyclists want from cars, yes?

Mick

I agree JZ...I'm starting to eliminate that section from my route altogether. Really just an example of another command to use in a certain "low-visibility" situation.

Mick - right on. My impatience as a commuter sometimes gets the best of my concern for safety.

North Shore Trail from 7th to 40th St Bridges was super busy this afternoon. iPods, unchained dogs, three walking abreast, lots of bikes. The works.

I don't have a bell, but clack my brake levers a bunch of times to catch people's attentions. This usually works. For dogs and kids, it really really helps to slow down a lot. Like almost to a crawl. Passing people who don't hear me, I find it best to pass them at "a reasonable pace", meaning not blowing by them at a dead run.

I just slow down and say "excuse me." Of course in the rain and over the winter, the problem is non-existent.

usually when i'm on the trails, it's just for exercise, so i'm trying to keep up a good, steady pace. when i come across pedestrians, i slow down and make a decision: can i get by them on the left with wide enough berth that a sudden movement on their part won't send us both crashing down?

if the answer is yes, i usually continue to slow as i pass them, then stand up to accelerate, all without a word.

if not, i slow down to about their speed and call something out. sometimes "on your left", sometimes "excuse me", sometimes "behind you". whatever it is, it doesn't matter which way they move, because i'm not going fast enough to pass them. and closing with a "enjoy your [ride/walk/day]" usually makes everyone feel just nice and fine.

i usually think about 6-8 feet is wide enough berth. more for children. if someone decides to, without looking and without warning, cross 6 feet in under a second on a shared-use trail, well, that's a pretty daft thing to do. i wouldn't do that on a street, for example.

I use "passing on your left", figuring plain "on your left" might get interpreted as "something interesting is on your left, go look". Nobody's moved left so far.

Tone of voice likely matters too. A barked "on your left!" could be taken as "quick, move out of the way!" by a novice. I try to use a calm, almost-bored voice unless I want a group walking side by side to clear a space to pass.

Y'know, the vehicle code requires pedestrians on the roadway to walk facing traffic and to move aside. There are reasons. It's impossible to negotiate with someone who is (a) not looking and (b) can't hear you because they're blasting their Ipod and (c) can move sideways in an instant.

The convention on sidewalks is different. So, is a shared-use trail a sidewalk, or a road?

I use the lever clacking that Stu mentioned along with HiddenVariable's strategy. Seems to work pretty well. The only time it didn't I tried passing a guy on the right on the southside trail, he was riding with his seat too low, y'know, looking like a toad, and wobbling from side to side. Thought I had a window, skidded in the gravel, and just kept riding.

I wish more parents enforced riding on the right and passing on the left with their kids while riding the trails. Even yelling out where you are cant stop a line up of kids zig-zagging over the whole path.

I ride the southside trail home from school everyday at about noon. Lots of casual walkers. 90% of the time they're on the right and I don't say anything (ipods). I would say most of the other time when people are walking 3 or 4 abreast a simple "on your left" will suffice.

On tuesday though there were like 4 or five office people walking abreast (!) on the wooded part of the trail, so I slowed down to a crawl and about 10' behind them announced "I'm passing on your left, thank you." Mind you I'm going slower than walking speed now. They all turn and look at me like I have a dick growing out of my forehead.

At this point I hear a snarky "Looks like someones in a hurry". I just found the smallest gap through them and sped away. I made sure to say "Your other left lady", like you would to a child, to el snarko.

All this happened for no good reason at all.

Alot of joggers seem psychic. They're listening to music, and not looking at anything. You come up from behind and they just move. Not even a look back. Maybe its the endorphins.

i whistle. most people say "thanks" as i pass.

if the whistle doesn't get their attention, i slow down and say "passing on your left..." this works for the experienced trail user. once in a while someone will jump left in front of me, confused by left and right. which is why i slow down when i have to start saying "passing on your left".

bells are awesome. i think most people associate the sound of a high pitched bell with a bike, so they know what's coming up behind them.

office jerks...

Maybe they could paint a dividing line in the middle of the trail and paint arrows showing the direction of travel. It seems to work on the roads, well sometimes.

Bells seem to have no effect on slower trail users for me. I asses, yield if need be and if they still don't hear me I say "on your left" or "passing you on {insert side here}".

I like using a bell because they seem to hear it pretty far away. The only problem I have found is that sometimes people cant tell where the bell is coming from and end up looking around frantically and I end up having to say "passing on your left" anyway.

Bells work sometimes. Shifting works sometimes. Saying "Hi, I'm going to pass to your left on a bike" works sometimes if you are going slowly enough. Polite tones always help more than a barked "on your left." Sadly, not much seems to work with iPod wearing roller bladers...

Sadly, not much seems to work with iPod wearing roller bladers...

Bull horn handlebars?

But really, you have to be careful. I take the sidewalk across the bridge next to my house. Sometimes I can shout and people will obviously not hear. Sometimes I think they know I'm there, but when I pass they're obviously surprised.

Walking in my neighborhood (south oakland), I try my damnedest to be aware of everything around me. I suspect there are folks who put earphones on because they're afraid someone might try to say "hello" to them.

Mick

Nine semesters at SUNY Geneseo, I passed tens of thousands of people while on unicycle on the long, narrow sidewalk between the N & S campuses. This was before iPods, even before Walkmans (1979+-2 years). I was essentially silent, roughly a parallel situation to joggers with iPods today.

The best solution then was stealth: leave them entirely in the dark to my approach, then pass them at about arm's length. A common reaction would be them dodging to the side *after* I went by, often with a delay of a full second, and me a couple yards past them.

It was easy to identify freshmen this way; upperclassmen got used to me whizzing by. Problem is, today, everybody needs to be considered a freshman on the local trails.

I went for a walk with my wife on the trail from Millvale to town last Monday (I had a flat tire, so we walked instead of me going biking...).

OMG, it was horrible -- she staggered all over the trail the entire time and couldn't grasp why I kept telling her to pick someplace near the edge to walk. She had no concept that there were cyclists who were going to be overtaking us on the trail. It was an eye opener to be out with somebody who had no awareness of people on bikes at all (and a bit embarrassing, too).

It feels like a no-win situation sometimes: they try to run me over on the street and they can't share the trail. I'll take the road riding any day over the trails, though.

Or you could sing:

"Don't walk 5 abreast;

Cause it'll bring you to your death,

There's a cyclist on the left..."

Thanks to CCR...and their often misinterpreted song.

Rocco, that's hysterical.

I just say "coming through" when I'm 15 feet on the left behind the walker.He/She just moves over to the right.

I'm going to start saying "on your left" in english from now on, instead of arabic. Maybe this will help.

Might be a good idea with secret service in town for the g-20. effin sharmoutas.

Start yelling "swine flu, coming through"

I used to state my intentions but now I just blast past without slowing down. Yes. I am a dick.

"coming up on your left, "on your left" is usually what I say, followed by a thankshaveaniceday.

i do ring my bell as well, but i've noticed(especially in oakland) that some people do not register the bell as belonging to a vehicle that could hurt them if they do not move. so i ring & speak just for good measure.

One time a simple "on your left" turned into meeting somebody new and having a great talk about pgh while we climbed a hill. kind of sweet.

I rarely announce my passing if I can do so safely. Most people move unpredictably to look behind them or are so oblivious to their surroundings with headphones on that it doesn't matter anyway. I used to always announce my passing on the rail trails, but now that iPods are fused to half of our population's heads it is a useless call. My pet peeve is the folks with headphones blaring power-walking or riding slowly on the trails who get startled every time someone passes them. Like, uh, what did you expect was going to happen?

Years of mountain bike racing taught me that when people hear "on your left" they tend to look over their left shoulder, and the bike follows. Just passing them at an opportune moment is far easier and safer for all involved.

On bridges or when people are spanning the entire trail, I certainly make my presence known with a clack of the brake levers and whatnot.

who get startled every time someone passes them. Like, uh, what did you expect was going to happen?

No kidding! This happens on the jail trail a fair amount. Some people actually visibly jump and exclaim aloud. Where do they think they are walking?

I've found that any time it seems someone (drivers, pedestrians, joggers) is not aware of my presence I can almost always clear a path for myself by simply shouting "heads up" in a loud voice, like a drill seargent. This works in a variety of situations, on the trails, on the road, etc. I think it is a natural self preservation instinct for most people that when they hear, "heads up" they immediately look around to see what's coming at them.

2:26 in

Awesome, I see professional weavers everyday on the SS trail, much better than those guys.

Watch at 4:24 he schools her with that wheelie.

Seems like they have a huge number of members in this area huh

Watch at 4:24 he schools her with that wheelie.

She's so impressed, she's speechless. I'm guessing that guy has a pretty good chance with her.

Mick

A quick skid right behind them will get their attention. Otherwise I just sneak past unannounced. I am also a dick.

Like BradQ, I sometimes also go unannounced if there's plenty of space to pass, especially if it's a clueless/iPodded jogger.

My favorite is when there are two people walking the same direction I'm going, one on the right side and one on the left, with no space on either edge of the trail. So I yell "Passing, uh, in the middle."

Also, bravo to whomever made the Weavers video. I'll apologize on behalf of my mom who has ridden the North Shore Trail a number of times this summer after probably 20+ years of not riding a bike, and when I go with her (usually Washington's Landing to the Science Center) I always see her swerving back and forth.

I do have one complaint about riders in this situation. I have been getting people riding past me on their bikes without any kind of audible signal. Both times it happened in the last month it was rich looking yuppies on really fancy road bikes that looked like they brought them out to the trail with their SUV. The first time I was heading up the panther hollow trail. At the bottom I stopped and asked a man and woman on road bikes if this trail brought me to schenly park. They told me they didn't know but im assuming they did but didn't want to be bothered to tell me. So we head up the trail and about 5 mins later as me and my gf are riding side by side(was a slow day,no one on the trail)this guy and woman come blowing by on our left side going pretty fast with out saying a word and almost slam into my gf. She swerved and almost fell on top of it. Then keep going, no "sorry I almost hit you" or anything. Then I had a similar interaction on the smithfield st sidewalk one morning last week. I called out to a walker that I was passing on his left then as I did another man and woman passed me on my left(on bikes) as I passed the walker on his left, pretty much pinching me between themselves and this guy walking. It caused me to swerve to the right and almost hit this guy.

I guess what im saying is why do some bikers feel they dont have to give a audible to other bikers?

It depends on the situation for me... in both of your cases willie, I agree that they should have said something. And they definitely shouldn't have passed you while you were passing someone... that's absurd. I can't tell you how many times I slow down and wait to pass because people aren't paying attention. I can take a nanosecond of my ride to slow down and pass politely, why can't others? BUT, if I say "on your left", 9.64 times out of 10 they stop dead to duck and cover. I didn't say "bomb on your left" or "stop so I can wreck to your left". If there is room, I simply pass and nod and smile or something to acknowledge them, without audible warning. From my experience, and where I ride, it seems to work better than yelling. Totally depends on the situation.

Last week I yelled "on your left" and these two ladies were so caught up in conversation they looked back so surprised, a deer caught in headlights so to speak. I guess they heard me, but didn't listen to me. I slowed and stopped, because the one lady was grabbing her head doing the whole "duck and cover" thing, running in hysterics from one side of the trail to the other, screaming. "OH MY GOD, LEFT OR RIGHT? LEFT OR RIGHT? AAHH OH MY GOD!" Eventually she and her friend settled on the left hand side of the trail, cuddling up into the weeds, like I was going to plow into them from a dead stop? As clipped back in and passed she again goes, "YOU SHOULD SAY LEFT OR RIGHT!!". I told her, "I said left, about 4 times.. but thats okay, I'll go around on the right".

Yea I do see alot of people just about jump out of their shoes because I said "passing on your left" or rang my bell.

This brings me to another point. I had a fella pass me the other day and said "passing on your left" but not intill he was already next to me. The question I have is how far behind someone should you be when you give a audible warning? As far as I know a bell has to be loud enough that it can be heard from 100 feet. If im coming up on a group of people that are weaving all over I will start ringing the bell at probably 50 feet behind them. If its only one or two people I will get closer before i pass and give them a little ring just to let them know im there. Then if its someone that rides often they will usually check over their shoulder alot and see me coming and make room before I even get a chance to ring. And then there are the folks with Ipods. Its just a lost cause trying to figure out what to do with them. I did come across a bike mounted air horn online that might work.

I don't usually do a distance thing, more of a timing thing. If you're passing someone who is also on a bike, and you are only going 5 mph faster than them, I'll wait until I'm almost next to them before I say something that lets them know I'm passing.

The benefit for waiting is that if they're already over on the right, they can hear where your voice is coming from, and know that they should just stay where they are. If you are far behind then they do the whole turn around, look at you, dodge from one side to the other thing.

Of course, if you have people hogging the whole path, I'll yell from pretty far back, to give them time to actually move.

dwillen, good point. I'm torn between what you suggest and not wanting to startle people. I think that the cyclists are less startled by being overtaken than the pedestrians are, though.

willie, I agree with you. But to digress a little: Riding on the sidewalk on smithfield street? Is that really necessary? Technically, it's illegal (though I can't get terribly agitated about that), but more important to me, I use the smithfield st sidewalk on foot, and I know I would be pretty unhappy about being passed by THREE bikes all at once.

Sorry I meant smithfield street bridge sidewalk. once I am off the bridge I go right back to the road. On my morning commute I take a left after the bridge onto what I think is fort pitt blvd and stay on the road. There are times that I will use the sidewalk on fort pitt blvd heading back up to the smithfield st bridge on my way home from work tho. Theres no store fronts so there are not usually many people on it. Just have to watch when going across the cross walks there. People come flying from the left and will blow thru red lights to take a right onto fort pitt blvd. I almost got wacked last week there. I stopped and waited for a cross walk light, when I got it I started to go and a guy blew thru a red light and almost hit me in the cross walk as he blocked it with his car, on top of it he didnt even see us because he was looking to the left. He was so close I reached out and pounded the hood of his car and thats when he finally noticed me so I pointed to the still white cross walk and he shurgged and sped off.

Ah. Yeah, the smithfield st bridge is challenging. I'm torn about whether to ride on the roadway or the sidewalk. My decision about whether to do one or the other boils down to time of day and how many pedestrians I can see on the sidewalk already, and I don't think I'm ever really happy about whatever my choice was

I'm glad you figured out the problem with "upstream riding" on sidewalks! Personally, I'd choose a different route, but as long as you're careful and slow... Also look out for people coming towards you, who then turn right across/into you. I'm not sure if that's likely on Ft Pitt Blvd, as at least some of the intersections don't permit that right turn.

I guess I could take the road the is on the left side of the newspaper building up to smithfield st but the last time we did someone blew out of a parking garage and almost hit my gf the screamed at her to get out of the road. So we decided it was better taking the sidewalk on the other side. My gf has only been riding about a year now since we moved into the city and dosent have the experience riding like I do. When taking that certain sidewalk we take out time and give others the right of way. Plus by the time I come home its about 7 or 8 in the evening so theres not many people out in that area. As far as the bridge I cross it on the right sidewalk about 10 am. I only usually encounter one or two people and never have problems passing. One morning there was a guy on a three wheeled bike, selling ice cream I think, coming at me and we had to slow down alot to get past each other but we just waved to each other and passed carefully. To be honest there is still too many cars going over the bridge at that time for me to be comfortable riding the road. Maybe Ill make a few late night crossings and work my way up to daylight hours

Oh yea as far as people turning right into downtown from ft pitt blvd. Its seems most people will give you the right of way when crossing at a cross walk except for busses. They will take the turn even if their light is red. Or just stop the bus under the red light and as soon as the light and cross walk turns they stomp on the gas

Don't blame you for choosing the sidewalk after an experience like that.

As for the bridge, that's kind of funny, because late at night is the time of day I would rather be on the sidewalk. I'll use the road during rush hour, when the traffic is all jammed up and slow and the sidewalk is busy.

I wonder if the guy that passed me as I walked across the Ft. Pitt Bridge one afternoon last week reads this board. He was wearing shoulder-to-knee charcoal-colored spandex and a red helmet, and IIRC, he was riding a red & white Cervélo. If that's you and you're reading this, you'll probably remember this incident...

I was walking from Point State Park towards Station Square, keeping to the right of the narrow path, though not exactly hugging the railing. You passed me on the left after the Fort Pitt Museum but before getting on to the actual bridge. You did not give any indication that you were coming. I did not have headphones on and I do have good hearing, but you were nearly silent. Plus, the rush hour traffic on I-279 means I couldn't have heard what little noise your bike was making. I was carrying my little lunch cooler in my left hand. It swung back and forth in my hand as I walked, following the natural hand-swinging-while-walking motion. I suppose it must have swung too far to the left as you passed me, because you had to jam on your brakes and lean on the jersey barrier momentarily. You nearly crashed. Now, imagine if you had simply called out an "on your left" before you passed, as most cyclists do when I'm crossing the bridge after work... Your failure to announce yourself nearly caused you to crash.