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Pittsburgh Bicycle Park

Scott blogged about this yesterday. The concept is a dedicated recreational facility for cycling of all types. Other cities have built XC trails, cyclocross venues, pump tracks, freeride lines, and technical skills areas. This is a real idea that city decision makers are actually considering. PTAG and BikePGH are involved but there is not yet a unified push toward making it happen. If you are at all interested in learning more, a good first step is to attend the Department of City Planning community meetings for the Open Space plan. The meetings are on the BikePGH calendar. Use their survey to indicate that you are interested in the keywords "Adventure Recreation". If you are not thrilled by the idea of a bike park then the meetings are still a great way to influence the future of Pittsburgh's parks and open spaces.


david
2011-04-27 17:46:54

Are you referring to the "Allegheny Linear Park" bike trail??? This was put into concept about 4 years ago about having a bike linear park along our 4 rivers which will be 128 miles in length throughout Allegheny county.For more info, just google "Allegheny linear park bike trail".


lenny
2011-04-27 18:39:14

No, I believe he's referring to this. Bike park (jumps, tracks, etc.), not bike trail.


reddan
2011-04-27 18:51:41

Where in Pittsburgh would this bike park be located??? I myself,am not interested in this kind of park.It seems this park would be more suitable to children and teenagers,not adults.


lenny
2011-04-27 19:02:28

Sorry for the confusion. A Pittsburgh bicycle park could potentially include any features that the cycling community feels are important. In addition to the jumps and trails that some might be thinking of, the possibility exists for creative ideas like a small road criterium course, bmx race venue, cyclocross race venue, flatland freestyle development area etc. The City is currently reviewing its Parks and Recreation budget and operations; this is the time to insist on a dedicated space for recreational cycling. The second meeting in the Open Space Plan series is Today: April 27th, 6:30pm at 122 Virginia Ave.

3rd meeting is tomorrow April 28th, 6:30pm at 745 Greenfield Ave.


david
2011-04-27 20:01:35

Again,where in Pittsburgh are they planning to put in this so called bicycle park????


lenny
2011-04-27 20:21:35

Children and teenagers? I think I'd be in favor of anything that gets more of 'em on bikes...sounds good to me.


reddan
2011-04-27 20:29:19

this would likely be wonderful for bike-oriented events (bikefest things?)


rubberfactory
2011-04-27 20:38:23

As an adult person I would find many if not all the activities proposed for this so called bicycle park to be of interest to me.


eric
2011-04-27 20:50:25

you should really check out bike parks in other cities before you dismiss it as something for kids.


a few examples:


Highbridge Park, New York City

http://www.nycmtb.com/?page_id=285


I-5 Collonade, Seattle, WA

http://evergreenmtb.org/colonnade/


Valmont Park, Boulder, CO

http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7154&Itemid=2605


here is the poster we are putting up in local bike shops:


if you would like a hi-res version to print please pm me and i will send you the link.


cburch
2011-04-27 21:04:02

I was in Seattle last week, staying in Capitol Hill, I had no idea that this colonnade park had been built. Wow. Wish I'd known. I only rented a road bike, so inappropriate, but still. My schedules's been messed up, maybe I can make it to one of these meetings.


nfranzen
2011-04-27 23:25:23

They have a permanent 'cross course set up in Louisville, KY as well. It will be the site of Masters Worlds for a few year and Pro Worlds in 2013.


mayhew
2011-04-27 23:32:50

I'm similar to Lenny - I don't see the park as anything that I'm interested in.


I wouldn't cast "adult" aspersions on it, though. I hesitate to critisize, but I want it to register that Lenny isn't alone amongst bikers.


mick
2011-04-27 23:34:25

If something like this was built, the decision to buy a mountain bike would be made for me. No other choice.


kgavala
2011-04-28 00:21:38

what is a pump track? (as noted on the poster)


pseudacris
2011-04-28 00:49:50

BMX jumps, roughly.


mayhew
2011-04-28 00:50:29

@Mick, @Lenny: I look at it like a velodrome, or technical singletrack: not something I'm personally likely to use, but I'm happy to see public money and priorities being funneled towards cycling.


reddan
2011-04-28 01:32:41

In a similar hobby with equal but different legislative battles it is obvious that if you are a road cyclist you will still reap many benefits from a park, even if it is a dirt jump BMX track.


orionz06
2011-04-28 01:35:51

A pump track isnt bmx jumps. Its a course with rollers and bermed turns that you do laps on by pumping the bike instead of pedaling. Great for developing rhythm on a bike. Here are some videos of my favorite pump track.


cburch
2011-04-28 02:41:57

I was referring to dirt jumping, 6-7' tall jumps, not the BMX stuff.


orionz06
2011-04-28 02:54:31

Its cool. I wasn't replying to you. FYI if anyone IS interested in learning to jump we will have the beginner dirt jumps at the new north park skills area (next to the freeride area) open for riding in the next few weeks. We will be adding a more advanced jump line as well as a line of progressive drops and a line of all sorts of skinny features this summer.


cburch
2011-04-28 03:03:15

Excellent. I still have odd fantasies about grabbing another 20" bike and doing some of that stuff.


orionz06
2011-04-28 12:38:46

you don't need a 20"! be nice to your knees and get s 26" dj bike. everything we build is spaced for 26" wheels anyway.


cburch
2011-04-28 13:46:44

I already have a FS mt bike that will handle it, but my lust for a nice 20" bike still remains.


orionz06
2011-04-28 13:53:10

nah, you want a dj bike for the jumps, totally different geometry and setup. plus you'll beat the shit out of your bike so you want something relatively cheap and tough. for the north park freeride trails, sure the prophet will handle it ok, it just might not be quite as fun as a dedicated freeride bike.


cburch
2011-04-28 13:57:53

I think it would be great to have something like this in the city for kids & adults alike, especially if it were accessible by bike path & public transportation. I would hope that there might be some "girls nights" to encourage more women to enter the sport(s).


pseudacris
2011-04-28 15:15:49

I'm sure velomuse would be all over that idea. We are actually starting to see more women at the freeride trail too. It's pretty exciting whenever anyone gets into the sport!


cburch
2011-04-28 16:01:36

cburch: I'm interested in incorporating aspects of some of the skill sets evidenced by participants in these sports for my own eccentric biking activities, (and to less odd ends like commuting and curb jumping and leaping over surprise trapping storm drains as are so common here on the NorthSide), but have absolutely no interest in participating in the sport itself. I watch videos and observe and read, and have learned a bit, but the controlled environment of a closed course offers practice and safety I don't have out in the woods, or in traffic. Does (your?) facility (under the forty whatever street bridge, right?) offer this type of "civilian" opportunity?


Just asking, thanks.


fungicyclist
2011-04-28 17:40:47

I would support this...but can't make the meeting. I would like to try out some new forms of riding myself. Need to fix my Mt. Bike...I only went once with a Women's MT Bike ride during bike fest 4 or 5 years ago (which was awesome) and haven't been back since. :


gimppac
2011-04-28 18:03:30

fungicyclist, i'm not sure what riding spot you are talking about. we build in north park. but this is exactly what the bike park would offer and is what we are building with the skills area in north park.


cburch
2011-04-28 18:08:35

cburch: You mean "North Park" proper? The City Park with the drained (?) pond? Up in North Hills?

It may be a skateboard facility or something? I've only seen it when I travel to Lawrenceville at night and it's not in use, but I have seen bikes there so assumed it was a BMX thing or the like. It's under the Lawrenceville Bridge on the North shore.

Skills area at your NH location sounds interesting. Thanks for the information.


fungicyclist
2011-04-28 18:33:37

i believe fungicyclist is talking about the mr smalls skate park in millvale riverfront park?


hiddenvariable
2011-04-28 18:53:23

That is Mr. Smalls skatepark under the bridge.


I am excited that somthing like this is being considered. I also hope most "adult oriented" cyclists will keep their traps shut. A facility like this, or several smaller facities, would give kids here in the city opportunities to experiment with bikes. A couple 11-12 yr olds in my neighborhood go to southpark by riding and utilizing the T. Their gone all day just to ride for 2 hours. Heck,how bout grab up some of the abandoned lots around here an throw a pump track in every neighborhood.


untameable2
2011-04-28 18:56:17

Just to be clear: a Pittsburgh Bicycle Park will be inside the city of Pittsburgh boundaries. The concept is not a trail, or an area within an existing park (as is the case with the freeride features in North Park, Allegheny County). The concept is for a dedicated open space for bicycles. Boulder, CO will open the gold standard of this idea in June, the Valmont bike park--it has has been linked in this thread, if you are interested. The concept is for a free, public, open space dedicated to bicycles, not indoor, not a private business. There is room within the idea for lots of different types of cycling activities; the scope of the park will depend on how well area cyclists aggregate funding, mobilize resources, and commit to the ongoing maintenance.


david
2011-04-28 19:36:05

untameable2, may I suggest you tone it down a touch? I'm an "adult oriented" cyclist and there's very little you could have written which would have been more alienating then telling me to "keep (my) trap shut." If you want the support of those who could help advance this program, sell it.

I did not respond positively to admonitions in my youth to be "seen and not heard". How about you?

This project needs the support of voting, taxpaying, "adult oriented" cyclists to go forward. Your negatively charged comment would put me off entirely, were I on the fence about the value of the facility.

Just saying...


Thanks for the identification of the Northside spot as Mr. Smalls, and I am familiar with North Park, though visit it infrequently at best.


fungicyclist
2011-04-28 19:36:49

Untameable 2 stating, "Hoping most adult oriented cyclists keeping their traps shut"is quite rude!! If someone has a different perspective than you,tell them to keep their traps shut??? If it attracts a lot of kids and teens that may have nothing else to do and keeps them out of mischief or even criminal activity, than I'm also for this project.I was speaking of myself personally, that this wouldn't at all interest me.If I was a kid or even a teen I would feel differently and would enjoy this kind of bike park.Just my opinion, that there will be some adult riders to this park,but I believe it will be the exception rather than the rule.Just my opinion and no, I will not,or Eric or anyone else that diasgrees with you will not keep their traps shut.


lenny
2011-04-28 19:39:47

Lenny i think you would be quite shocked at the demographic that these bike parks all tend to attract. adults are most definitely in the majority at all the ones i have seen numbers for.


Also, Pittsburgh has a HUGE off road (xc/dh/cx/etc) scene that isn't always very well represented on this board, with a few notable exceptions, mainly Eric and myself.


cburch
2011-04-28 20:43:27

Ahem.


mayhew
2011-04-28 20:58:43

i forget about all you cx weirdos. sorry.


cburch
2011-04-28 21:02:29

This looks like a cool thing. I've read about the Seattle one, very cool. I'm an "adult cyclist", I don't know if I would ever use the facilities, but I would support it. I'm up for anything biking.

But, yeah, the "trap shut" thing was pretty harsh.


edmonds59
2011-04-28 21:20:52

sorry, gues I should have just ask, why wouldnt you support it regardless, it is an improvement for cycling? what about that need selling to someone that apparently ride a bike?


untameable2
2011-04-28 21:34:01

Fair enough question, ut2.

Politics is by definition "the allocation of scarce resources." There is only so much interest, and more importantly, money to go towards bike programs. You need to "sell" or tout the relative value of this proposal.

Sometimes one can go sideways. Ages ago we pushed "Food Stamps" through not as a social program but rather as a benefit to farmers, ensuring the prices for their crops would stabilize and they'd have a market for them as well, building an unlikely coalition of representatives from conservative "Heartland" states to support an urban (and Appalachian) welfare program. This is how "Food Stamps" came to be administered by the Dept. of Agriculture.

Some of the earliest pilot programs for biking we pushed through were funded through the Dept. of Justice, as "crime prevention" experiments.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows indeed.

You might try convincing "adult oriented" cyclists of some value to this Park they don't readily see? Whatever you do, please consider respectfully listening to the concerns of those who doubt, be willing to accommodate those concerns, and don't make enemies. They'll bite you in the end.

Hope this helps.


fungicyclist
2011-04-28 21:57:30

That cool...but it would be nice if those that doubt did so with more than what appears to be a limited knowledge of their sport. So thanks for the history lesson aside, why do you not support it? what type of bike infrastructure are you on the fence about spending our limited resources on?


untameable2
2011-04-28 22:20:26

Yes, "it would be nice if those that doubt did so with more than what appears to be a limited knowledge of their sport", but a commuter doesn't need to know your sport(s) to fear their bike lane funding may be cut to pay for your fun. It's your responsibility to 1. demonstrate it's not an "either/or" situation, and 2. educate them about your sport and its value to them. This is how it works.


Never stated I didn't support the Bike Park concept. Does it take funding from Trail Expansion? Will supporting it mean fewer bike lanes in the city? Can it be self sustaining, not draining resources from other "bikey" programs in the future? Would the Bike Park attract ner-do-wells and become a breeding ground for inner city gangs and drug dealing and late night parties? I don't know the answers to these questions, but these are some of the concerns that might keep bike advocates from supporting a Bike Park.

Me? Me and my opinion are of no consequence. It's the activist "adult oriented" bikers you need to consider. Ask them, rather then tell them to "keep their traps shut."


p.s. Sorry for ancient history, but as Santayana wrote: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".


fungicyclist
2011-04-28 22:45:39

Bike park sounds awesome to me! I don't own a mountain bike but, I have been hitting jumps (on skateboard, snowboard, bmx) for a long time. I am sure I would use the bike park from time to time.


igo
2011-04-28 22:52:24

So, even if the primary appeal of a "bike park" would be to a younger crowd, not saying it is, but just for discussion.

I started biking seriously when I was 10, had a Schwinn Sting-Ray 5 speed with a top tube shifter. I rode that thing everywhere, spent hundreds of hours at the library because I could ride there, spent entire summers at the pool because I could ride there. And in between hit some hideouts with tabletops and dirt jumps with friends. So I continued biking on better and better bikes, pretty much right up until now, and so on.

My son learned to ride without training wheels when he was five, in 2 weeks, we rode the entire perimeter of Lake Arthur. He has the natural balance of a hundred pound gyroscope, you should see him play soccer, he can't be knocked over. We've ridden around town with the Flock, and we plan to ride to D.C. in June. I would say it's pretty well ingrained in him.

The kids in untameables post who make the trek from the city to South Park by bike and T, to ride, awesome, what an adventure! In less than a decade those 2 will be voting citizens who will refuse to accept that getting around by transit and bike is anything less than natural and necesary.

Anything that puts people on bikes, and the younger the better, will build the constituency that will put the pressure on the forces that be, to provide the infrastructure we all want. Anything that puts people on bikes is an investment in everyones quality of life. And here is an opportunity to be involved in that investment. For an "adult minded cyclist" or whatever to believe that this is an issue of no interest to them is just a weeeeeee bit short-sighted.


edmonds59
2011-04-29 00:56:07

I'm confused. Isn't "adult-oriented" most often used as a euphemism for porn? So this proposed park is a sort of sex on a bike thing? Who wouldn't be in favor of that?


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-29 01:53:02

ALMKLM: You just had to ask, didn't you?

Those Raleigh makers, our former overlords, the pesky Brits, apparently take exception to your proposal as most indecent and dreadfully improper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7098116.stm


fungicyclist
2011-04-29 03:52:25

@fungicyclist the pesky Brits, apparently take exception to your proposal


The Canucks, on the other hand, are DOWN wit' it.


http://youtu.be/KqyG2Lyz-DU


See about 1:54


mick
2011-04-29 04:36:07

@Mick


Is this the type of prurient, lewd and lascivious agitating behaviour one can expect to be on pubic display for innocent eyes to see at one of these so-called "bike parks"?


Let's have two (at the same time)!


Viva Canada! God Save The Queen(s)!


fungicyclist
2011-04-29 06:20:02

Haha guys,all in good fun.


On a more serious note, however, this is just the kind of crap commentary that can make females feel unwelcome in the park and in the sport.


I can only hope the project gets some federal support, so Title IX might apply.


pseudacris
2011-04-29 11:32:34

Mick, I don't really see any problem with that - aren't they just demonstrating a technique for checking for frame cracks?


salty
2011-04-29 13:19:38

What would a bike park be so that it was equal opportunity for both sexes?


orionz06
2011-04-29 13:34:04

@pseudacris: Apologies for any offense, however in my defense, please note my post about the British bloke concerned auto-eroticism. As much as I love my rides the eroticism of the incident eludes me and remains illusive.

Entirely expected to be flamed for the "auto" bit though...


fungicyclist
2011-04-29 14:22:15

To pick up on orionz's comment - are there things that would make the park more female friendly / gender neutral? I'd like to hear some opinions from the ladies.


FWIW, I’m neutral on the park at the moment.


marko82
2011-04-29 14:35:45

bike park- totally dialed and sweet,


think of all the revenue the city loses to rays mtb park, why does Cleveland have something that we don't?


This could be a huge amenity to city cyclists as well as a regional draw.


seal the deal as pittsburgh being a world-class cycling destination.


besides I've seen all walks of people participate in XC mountain biking, this may provide a mellower venue for people to be introduced to the sport without getting covered with mud.


thelivingted
2011-04-29 15:00:06

For a few years freeride has attempted to address the gender disparity in bicycle usage, with a dedicated and unfortunately named "WTF Wednesday", with profoundly disappointing results culminating in last week's vacant shop:


"Hey all,


Andrea and I are in the shop right now, for the W+T open shop. Unfortunately nobody came in! :( I noticed that class attendance has been low too. We were discussing how Free Ride members could have some fun together, outside of the shop, to build community, and how to better promote what we're about and what we offer.


We thought--let's join together to have a Free Ride contingent at the Polish Hill May Day parade this year! We could all ride on silly or decorated bikes. We could even bring the Free Ride banner if the council is OK with that. The parade starts at the intersection near Pittsburgh Filmmakers on Melwood Ave, meeting at 1pm on Sunday, May 1st. Please come along! It's always a lot of fun. E-mail me if you want to come and you have any questions.


Hope to see you there!


Cheers,

Caroline"


I've no idea how to address the gender spread; it may be inherent to the competitive nature of American cycling tradition?


However, an in-city bike park may be a step in the right direction to address the massive Racial disparity in bicycle ridership?


http://pluraletantum.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/biking-advocacy-and-race-wheres-the-disconnect/#more-269


http://www.redbikeandgreen.org/


fungicyclist
2011-04-29 15:00:12

I've only been out to RaysMTB a few times, but have seen plenty of females of all ages(9-40ish?) there shredin.

Maybe local female grafitti artist an taggers could be recruited to give any new facility the proper patina.

Come on people, anything that can help kids become interested in bikes an foster more riding is a win/win for any cyclist.


untameable2
2011-04-29 15:03:57

Shoot, as for the crime/drug gang issue metioned prior, I remember attending the first trail council meetings in boston, PA concerning the YRT, an can assure you many locals kneejerked negative reactions to the proposal, because they feard crime creeping into the area from pgh and DC!

Obviously bs, but it odd how many people instead preferred a short lived propposal to open up the rr line through boston, out to the closed dump above Dravo, reopen it, an dump even more toxic shid there than already had been.


untameable2
2011-04-29 15:11:59

there's no easy top-down way to affect the demographics in cycling culture.


nor, do I think its appropriate to assume only a certain demographic likes or would like to enjoy certain cycling amenities.


There are quite a few women mountain bikers in the region, and would likely be more with more amenities.


lastly, I wouldn't buy the notion that we can either afford a bike park or more bike lanes. Until someone actually holding the budget declares it so.


A bike park would be built on dedicated land for that purpose, whereas bike lanes Aren't simply painted-on but negotiated out of existing roads through great bureaucratic hassle.


This is simply a bonus bike amenity for the city's cycling community. Like the rail trails I barely use, I'm glad they're there, whether I'd use them or not.


thelivingted
2011-04-29 15:16:03

I would say to the best extent possible make sure the design of the facility has no actual hindrances to any particular group, i.e. have facilities for all abilities from grom to expert. Encourage mixing of all whatevers.

Locate it as close to major travel routes as possible, not buried in some neighborhood.

Provide as much physical visibility to all parts of the facility as possible.

Provide lots of trees and places to sit and water so adult cyclists can comfortably sit and laugh at the youngsters who twang themselves.

A board for posting public messages and places for street art and expression.

Wi-fi.

Place for taco and pho trucks to park.

I suppose these kind of things would be what the public hearings are for.


edmonds59
2011-04-29 15:38:06

yup, what ted said. as someone who is primarily a mountain biker but invests heavily in helping bike-pgh make the city a better place for commuter cyclists i was kind of hoping to see the favor returned. as far as crime and drugs go, the parks mentioned in nyc and seattle were actually placed in areas that were a problem location for drugs and crime, and they are heavily credited with helping clean the area up. the knee-jerk reaction against a dedicated city park for bikes is sad and has honestly soured me quite a bit on the community of this board (not bike-pgh itself though, you guys rule).


cburch
2011-04-29 15:38:12

haters gonna hate.


thelivingted
2011-04-29 15:45:53

from seattle's city parks site:


ABOUT THE PARK

Did you know that when I-5 was constructed it essentially created a dividing line between the Eastlake and Capitol Hill neighborhoods. Over the years, trash, weeds and transients took over the area underneath the freeway. Now with the I-5 Colonnade mountain bike skills park, the area is cleaned up and inviting. Residents from the once separated neighborhoods are able to the take the trails under the freeway to visit shops and restaurants that they used to need a car to get too. Visit the Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance website to learn more about the park and the club.


plus they used it as the seed to build a 1.2 acre off leash dog park adjacent to the 2 acre bike park!


who wouldn't want that?


cburch
2011-04-29 15:50:29

I have to agree with cburch. I'm a bit baffled why anyone here would be against bike stuff. I'll never use all the 3-rivers racks, I don't use most of the bike lanes on any given week, and I doubt I would spend much time in a bike park, but I still think anything promoting and improving bike use in the city would be a good thing. The idea that one bike project will take money away from all other bike projects is laughable. There isn't some giant envelope in city hall labeled "bike" where all the money for all bike projects originates. When you get a project going you raise funds and apply for grants to pay for that project. If you didn't the grant money would likely go to something unrelated to bicycles, rather than a different bike project that would better benefit you. It reminds me of automobile drivers bitching that bike lanes don't benefit them so why should their tax dollars go towards painting those silly lines on the road?


dwillen
2011-04-29 16:02:39

I don't really see myself riding the park, but oh man do I want it to happen. They're always great to see in other cities, and they're never empty.


bradq
2011-04-29 16:06:13

Wow, cant wait for the reaction from professional athletes in all disciplines of cycling that what their doin is just "for fun" an if they really want to get "serious" they should be commuting.


Hey, no real slam on commuting, just that I have fun riding my bike to work beside all that other "fun only" riding i do.


untameable2
2011-04-29 16:07:45

@fungicyclist Apologies for any offense, however in my defense, please note my post about the British bloke concerned auto-eroticism.


It is interesting to me how discussion can slide into negative territory.


I agree with Psuedacris that some might find the tenor of the overall conversation daunting.


But I felt the video was an appropriate response to Fungi's post.


A quick google of "feminism" "Feist" and "Peaches" (the primary artist) gives a fair number of hits.


I don't think any commentary was more offensive than the video I posted.


Still, through a culmulative effect, the overall conversation could push women away.


mick
2011-04-29 16:29:34

Wait, Peaches? What? I love Peaches. There are bikes in that video! Uh. I guess I need to stop ignoring links.


edmonds59
2011-04-29 16:40:20

I think the park would be a great addition to the city. It might not be my top priority if it were competing for the same $ as clean air & water or public transportation, but I think a lot of people would get use out of it.


RE making it female friendly, I like some of the ideas put forth here already...having mentors, teams and time slots for some minoritized groups. ALONG WITH plenty of opportunities based on the existing bike cultures or strictly competitive terms.


RE the porn comments & peaches video, Mick's comment about cumulative effect pretty much sums up my feelings. That and context.


I'm familiar with and like Peaches...but I felt like the video (and the comments before and after it) got thrown out there to reinforce gender norms, not challenge them as Peaches might like.


Since this seems to be "let your fringe viewpoints fly" week on the message board...


In my wacky world view, it would do more to liberate the gender dynamic of cycling to have a free Peaches concert during "women, girls, queer, trans and allies (incl straight men) night" at the new bicycle park instead of the video being posted & commented on here.


I've made my share of inappropriate comments in life, so I don't want to play PC language police, but I don't mind raising my voice here since it still feels somewhat diverse & open minded.


I would also totally love to try the pump track, it looks like a blast. I don't think I could ever get very good at it, but I would totally spend a few hours giving it a shot. Sometimes I like trying stuff that I know I will never master, BECAUSE ITS FUN.


Being a middle aged female, please understand that it is daunting to even think about trying some things because, even if people are able to refrain from negative comments, one is made to subtly feel too old/slow/uncool/unwelcome, even if it's just by the absence of others in one's demographic. So, it takes some courage to forge ahead into territory where one does not automatically feel a sense of belonging. I'm sure there are others here who can relate on different terms (race, weight, not owning the right bike, etc).


pseudacris
2011-04-29 19:38:20

Fungicyclist -- awright, points for the pun


:-D


pseudacris
2011-04-29 19:41:50

@Pseudacris - you should check out Ray's Women's Weekend. They do it every year and it's always packed. Along with their focus on Monday nights as a beginner/first timer friendly night it has really helped bring a lot more women to the park and, by extension, the more technical end of MTB. It's an excellent model for the sort of thing you are talking about.


http://www.raysmtb.com/cle/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=91


The public bike park would more than likely be similar in structure to the velodrome. A few programmed nights, but mostly just open to all comers with the emphasis on learning and having fun and no supervisory staff.


cburch
2011-04-29 20:21:55

Thanks, cburch! I would like to check out Ray's (and Cleveland).


Also, I think councilman Burgess (District 9) could be interested in this if it would have a positive impact on health & recreation in his district, especially the more economically distressed parts. I think he does or used to do some recreational cycling.


pseudacris
2011-04-29 20:33:05

rays closes after this weekend so you will have to wait till the fall. burgess hasn't exactly been entirely receptive to the bike communities efforts to reach out to his district in the past...


cburch
2011-04-29 21:23:24

I'm thinking about this thing as "another great place to start a ride from". In my eye, the place would not only be gender neutral, but age neutral, experience neutral, race neutral. If it's on human powered wheels, it goes there. It's a mixing pot. Bike stuff happens there (see list of things above), and bike stuff happens from there. Anyone driving past will expect bikes there in numbers. It will be a safe place to ride to. Think Popsicle Index.


stuinmccandless
2011-04-29 23:18:21

Pseuda, I will take a benefit show by the Ditty Bops, please. A little more family friendly than say, Peaches. And awesome.



edmonds59
2011-04-29 23:34:02

@cburch (and @dwillen by association) - by my count there was only one person being outright negative and 2-3 more expressing some skepticism. Then there's one person (on the "supporters" side) trying to pick a fight and generally polarize the discussion. The rest of the (on-topic) posts were supportive, and I'd imagine there are plenty of people like myself who think it's a great idea but didn't realize this thread was supposed to be a show of hands.


I don't think it's fair to judge the "community of this board" based on any of that, and in any case there's nothing wrong with a little dissent.


salty
2011-04-30 00:18:14

So I plan on going to the meeting on Pioneer Ave tonight. I should just put down on the survey that I am interested in Adventure Recreation and that will be a "vote" cast towards the bike park correct?


tetris_draftsman
2011-05-03 15:48:21

I don't have a lot to add other than i think this is a great idea. the more ways in which people have the opportunity to get into bikes will only benefit everyone who rides.


and to add to the "funding" issues. It's not like there is a general line item that says "bicycles" that needs to get split up between bike trails, bike parks, the cycling oval, bike lanes, books about cycling at the library, and bike racks. on-street facilities tend to get money from transportation budgets, so when we're trying to get money for that, it comes more at the expense of road building than anything (although the relative amount of money is so itty bitty as to be insignificant, yet we still have to grovel for crumbs).


I may be wrong, but something like this would probably be classified under "recreation" money and would be coming from the same pot as say baseball fields, basketball courts, lawn bowling, skate parkts, bocci ball, the cycling oval, tennis courts, etc, so if a case can be made for a facility that will not only have users, but people willing to donate resources (maintenance, funding, volunteers, etc) it will make for a stronger case. Add that to a potential reuse of abandoned lots and you could have a winning combination.


erok
2011-05-03 16:31:10

also if (when) it becomes time to start raising funds for this, it could be a great chance to use the fundraising site, http://www.kickstarter.com/ as referenced in a different thread.


Detroit raised $67K toward a statue of Robocop using this site, and they don't even have bike shops or national magazines that could directly benefit from the creation of their project.


With that said, i'm going to go out on a limb and say that I can pretty much guarantee that BikePGH would be supportive and offer our help where/when needed for this project. just one more reason to brag about the burgh.


erok
2011-05-03 16:37:58

Went to this last night. The majority of the people there were not interested in the Adventure Recreation from what I could tell. Definitely an interesting look at how much it costs to fund parks.


tetris_draftsman
2011-05-04 11:09:29

i'll be at the northside one tonight to see for myself...


thelivingted
2011-05-04 13:27:35

Tonight, at MLK be there!


thelivingted
2011-05-04 20:33:56