BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I shop there on a regular basis. Prices are pretty much the same across all Pro Bikes. If you want to compare against other shops then they are comparable. In term of choices -- they just finished the second floor and they carry decent amount of bikes.

From my experience with the Squirrel Hill Pro Bikes, I'd suggest shopping around. Of the many shops I've been to in Pittsburgh, I have found them to be the most elitist and pushy. I do have a couple friends who bought cheap hybrids there at decent prices. However, one claimed he didn't have a good experience. Maybe the South Hills one is different? Never been.

I've had good experiences with the one in Sq. Hill. They have three or four great people working there and carry some great products. No where else around carries Specialized helmets for example.

There is a real divergence of opinion on Pro Bikes. I have never enjoyed shopping there and also find them condescending, pushy, and aggressive in promoting buying a new bike instead of fixing an old one. Many people I know have had the exact same experience. However, I know some people who like them. I like Biketek in Squirrel Hill; other favorite bike shops are Thick and Iron City.

I have been to the stores in Sq. Hill and Monroeville. I have had great experiences often being sold a cheaper product than I intended to buy in the first place. Having been treated poorly at one of the most revered stores I will guess it is all a crapshoot. More great experiences at Pro Bikes than anywhere else.

I have been to the one in Squirrel Hill and Monroeville. They were really helpful in Monroeville but gave me some wrong info at Squirrel Hill. Have a friend who was in the one in the South Hills several times and he said that they were great.

I got a great dealing buying a new bike at the SQ Hill location and they were super helpful, but then had really crappo experience with follow up service a few months later.

Who's open on a Sunday? I need a brake cable.

Iron City is, just from 12pm to 4pm. Probably some others too (?)

Most bike shops are open Sunday, although Thick is closed. Pro bikes, Biketek, IC, Trek, Performance are all open.

I've had hit or miss experience with Pro Bikes also. I went in there ready to buy my carbon race bike and had to ASK two different people for someone to help me with a purchase and no one ever came so I left and swore I'd never go back. I had to stop there to get some service done because their head mechanic is supposedly the best in town and had a totally opposite experience that time. I don't know that they would be my first choice but I wouldn't say they're the worst. They do have the biggest variety of affordable, and not affordable, bikes in the city though.

I saw some interesting business practices going on at the SQ Hill Pro Bikes once. I've only visited a couple of times, but once, as I was waiting to checkout I heard a discussion between an employee and someone picking up his bike. Turns out he brought the bike in to have something specific fixed. When he received the bike, they had done some sort of tune-up but not fixed what he had come in for. The employee explained that he had to be charged for the tune up because the service had been completed, even though that is not what he had asked for. I think he was offered a water bottle or something as consolation. He ended up leaving, having paid for a service he didn't want and with a still broken bike (a nice bike I might add). Meanwhile, another employee kept suggesting that another customer should buy a new helmet or other odds and ends. This shopper turned to me and complained that it was typical behavior of the shop. I finally got to check out.

These are the places I've had good experiences:

-Trek Bikes: good advice. Didn't try to sell me anything

-Bike-Tek: Purchased a bike here. Pretty good deal

-Performance: good advice. Haven't had any work done. They do price matching and give discounts for bike-pgh membership (but make sure you have your card on you)

Only been to these once, so I can't say too much about them. They were pleasant experiences though.

-Iron City Bikes

-Thick Bikes

Oh yeah, forgot to mention--lots of people like Dirty Harry's.

polite_toad - I recently spent some time in a bunch of local shops looking for a new ride. I visited teh Pro-bikes location twice because I liked the Cannondale Quick. They were a bit more expensive but offer you a water bottle, cage, and lifetime 15% off accessories if you buy a bike there.

I choose to purchase my Scott at Big Bang Bikes in West Mifflin. The customer service is amazing, they spent an hour with me on three occations answering questions. The Scott was $100 less expensive, and the custom fitting is done by the owner, Glenn.

I would strongly recommend Big Bang. They have as muc on hand selections as Pro Bikes, just different brands.

Craig at Big Bang Bikes is also an amazing mechanic. I wouldn't take my road bike--which i bought @ Big Bang--to anyone else. I fall in the camp of never having a good experience with Pro Bikes or Biketec. I've always liked the no BS service i've received at Iron City. And, now that i'm in the market to find a reasonably priced mountain bike (preferably @ a place where I'll be treated with respect &get good service) Big Bang, Thick & Trek are the first places I'll visit.

I looked at a bike at one of the Pro Bikes shops after a friend whose opinion I trust had warned me off (because I had forgotten which shop he said to avoid). When I told him I had a very unpleasant experience, he said, "I told you not to shop there, they're [redacted]."

They have a TON of bikes. Every bike shop in the world has its share of what-a-deal-i-got and avoid-at-all-cost stories. I can personally vouch that Kris (the Manager) and Kevin are great people.

Since this has become a callout of name your favorite bike shop, I'll throw my support behind what's been said about Big Bang Bikes.

Glenn is very intelligent and not only makes sure that your position is correct on the bike, but also that YOU understand the biomechanics enough that you could explain to your mother why that position is optimal. It seems as if he treats everyone with the same level of respect too; whenever I walk in, he's always doing the same for someone else. I haven't found that level of caring and dedication anywhere else in the area.

Craig is, as said, a great mechanic and a skilled wheelbuilder to boot.

Only shops that I haven't been to are Thick, West Liberty Cycles, and Top Gear, but as it sits, Glenn and Craig serve my two wheeled needs pretty completely.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I went to the South Hills location on Sunday and spoke with a couple of the guys there. The first person I talked to was a high school aged guy and he didn't really seem to know much about the selection of bikes. I told him that I would be doing mostly urban commuting and he suggested me a BMX bike??

I kept browsing and another employee came up to me and helped. I told him what I needed and he suggested a hybrid bike. I wanted something with a drop handlebar and he told me the least expensive model they have is around $800. Does this seem right?

If you are looking for a commuter, either a road bike or hybrid would work fine. A mountain bike is a bit overkill, and not very efficient for commutes. BMX is definitely the wrong way to go for commuting.

My commute bike is a touring bike which has a lot of braze-on attachments for racks. I use them daily, but many people do fine with just a milk crate, or a shoulder bag.

If you are looking for drop bars, road bikes are going to be the best bet. Entry road bikes at a shop will run you in the $800 range, but you might be able to find a slightly cheaper one depending on the brand and shop. I would be surprised if you found a new road bike for less than $600.

I'm not sure what the used bike market is around here, but that is something you could look into.

You could also try an online bike store like bikesdirect.com. They have good components (shifters, derailleurs, etc), but "internet brand" frames and seats and such. You could get something on there to get you around for $300. for $500 or $600 you would get something pretty good ( take a look at the touring bikes too! ) and for $800 you will have quite a bike. But, be warned: the bike will need to be partially assembled and tuned. That will cost you a little bit at a bike shop if you don't know how to do it yourself, so you should plan that into the budget.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

Performance bikes in east liberty just started a sale today where all their bikes are on sale. From $299 and up and have every kind of bike you could want give them a call

After Pro Bikes in Sq. Hill routed my internal shifter cables incorrectly while dropping $1500 they lost a bit of respect with me. I'm not one to go back for a refund, but definitely won't be passing any recommendations.

$800 (minimum) sounds about right if you want something that will ride well and last. If you want drop handlebars I'd recommend a cyclocross bike. The primary advantage of a cyclocross bike is that it will accept a pretty wide range of tire widths. Thinner (faster) in the summer and wider (slower but with better traction) in the winter. Of course, everything is relative. A less expensive bike will probably provide the appropriate value if your commuting miles aren't that high. A more expensive bike will have lighter, more durable components. I shop by price point. Figure out how much you want to spend and then compare at 2 or 3 shops.

There are many many bikes that will do you just fine for much less than $800. Tearing bikes apart at FreeRide I've been amazed at how many "department store" bikes are still quite rideable twenty years after manufacture. Of course, they were never light, not at all flashy, and you couldn't brag about them, but they would get you from point A to point B and, with reasonable maintenance, would hold up quite well.

You could easily get a perfectly good, fairly light, entry-level road bike for around $500 at most of these shops. And you could do quite a bit better if you poke around or order on-line. It's simply not necessary to spend that much, and it makes a lot more sense to spend less starting out and save your money for when you have a better idea of what kind of a rider you are and what you really want.

you might also consider thick bikes, as they evidently have a good selection of used bikes. and, golden triangle--the bicycle rental place--is selling their fleet of bikes (hybrids, road, etc.) september 15th and october 13th. depending on how "fancy" you want your commute bike to be and look, and how you want it to function, you might find some nice deals at these places. thick bikes would probably help you make sure that the fit is right, even on a used bike. not sure about golden triangle.

http://www.bikepittsburgh.com/?page_id=325

http://www.thickbikes.com/blog/

+1 jonawebb

My main wheels are what had been a really nice bike in the mid-1970s, and a 1980s-era department store bike. The latter is slow and clunky, but does everything I want it to do. The former is a good example of why spending a decent amount of money should last you a really really long time, if fit properly and not abused.

My third bike cost $20 at a second-hand shop, and needs $50/year in various parts to keep it rolling.

For all of these, I've made good friends with the folks at Scholl's in West View, and I frequent Thick every once in a while because I like their parts selection better and their hours fit my schedule better.

+a lot Dirty Harry's.

I've had decent experiences in Pro Bikes in Monroeville, and at Performance Bikes in East Liberty.

I've found that if I know what I'm looking for, it's easy to find the right person in the shop to help me. When I have no clue or more questions than answers, I stick to a couple of trusted guys at Dirty Harry's, or ask a few "fake" questions to gage the helper before continuing. I get answers that give me warm fuzzies, I continue. Otherwise, I thank them for their help and wander off.

Different sales people work for different customers. YMMV.

@ejwme i'd love to know what "fake questions" you use to gauge whether a saleperson is going to be helpful and/or attentive.

First - if your looking for Cannondale - go to West Liberty Cycles.

They are VERY nice, helpful and will (have) gone out of their way for you.

Sorry for the length - but.....

I broke an old Cannondale frame. I had a spare. I had the spare painted before moving the parts from the old broken bike to the new frame. I called Pro Bikes - asked about Cannondale decals.

Was told they had them - $20.

Went to the store to get them - I dont live in Sq Hill and Monroeville is even farther way.. Made the special trip. Walked in - asked about the decal set. 4 people behind the counter.

Including (manager?) Alan Orlanski who was overtly hitting on the female customer he was talking with, one person wrestling garbage bags. 2 others doing nothing.

All 4 of them looked at me like I had asked them to jump off a bridge. Alan went back to hitting on the female. The guy with the garbage bags said they didnt have any. I told him someone had told me they did, and would he please look.

He starts to tell me that he "...works there 40 hours a week, I *know* there are no decals, and even if there were any, I wouldnt know where to look". WTF!

I left - I will never return -

I called West Liberty Cycles. I asked about decals, they had a set, they were $10, AND they even shipped them to me - letting me pay them for the shipping when I went there in person!

Took the broken frame there, Rob (owner), went to what appeared to be some extra trouble to get the frame replaced, as Cannondale was reluctant to replace a frame that was 20+ years old. They eventually did.

julieb - I don't have standard questions, and they're not entirely "fake". But if I need more help than "do you carry part X?", I definitely get there a little sideways. I guess my original comment came off really weird, but I can't figure out how to describe it any other way.

I'm trying to think of an example, and the best I can come up with would be like if I were trying to sort out what to do about my husband's seat situation (he hates all bike seats). I don't know the answer (still), but I know enough (thank you interwebs) that if I ask a couple of questions about seats and angles, adjustments, and riding styles/preferences don't come up, or if they list saddles and prices and then just wait for me to pick one, I might just thank them and look at the seats by myself so they can help other customers.

I guess my questions are to see if they are up for some problem solving and education. Sometimes I just need help finding a part because I know exactly what I want. Sometimes I need help problem solving because I'm clueless (it may end up with me buying things, I'm ok with that, but I need understanding too). I try not to waste any salesperson's time if I get the idea that it's a bad fit for my purposes that day. I also try not to hold it against them if they're not working for me - I really do believe different customers want and need different things (even on different days), so a variety of sales styles is really necessary. And every sales person has great days and horrible days.

I guess that's not that helpful, I'm sorry.

(and yes, all you supine riders, I know "recumbant" is a possible answer. sigh.)

I work at one of the Bike shops discussed here. No, we are not perfect, but we do try very hard to please everyone and treat all our customers with respect. It is why we are in business, we love bikes and want to provide a service to our community. If we were just profit motivated, we would be Dick's, Performance or Bikes Direct.

It is sometimes hard to match a person with the bike that will suite all their current and future needs. Often we are very busy with other customers and cant get to you right away. It takes time to assess what is the ideal bike for a customer.

Our typical repair is a bike that has been left in a basement or backyard all winter and the customer wants to ride the bike for the summer. After assessing the neglected bike and giving the customer a quote for cables, housing, chain, cassette and labor, some cant understand why it cost over $100 to repair a bike they purchased for $300 ten years ago. We have customers whose bike is their sole mode of transportation, but fail do do any maintenance at all, riding the bike into the ground and get upset with us because we cant service the bike while they wait. We also have customers who get a bike at Bikes Direct and want us to assemble it and cant understand why we are not too thrilled to build that bike.

We mostly have many happy customers and friends that race, ride and commute.

@ejwme indeed you are being helpful! As you suggest, it's a process. I'm heading out today to look for a MTB (finally). And since on mountain biking i am a complete novice, i don't have the same confidence talking about things like suspension, etc. that i do with roadies. Anyway, trusting one's gut is probably the best way to approach these things. Off to Thick Bikes to see. Thx!

I went to Pro Bikes Sq Hill when we first moved to Pgh in '06 and the people there was asses. I rolled in on a Novara looking to buy a lock and one of the employees actually said "no one is going to want to steal that bike" with a sneer.

Fast forward several years. I live super close to Pro Bikes so I went back and the whole place had changed. I guess they had a major shake down? I have no idea. But I get kick ass service there now and everyone is super friendly. Like any shop, some people are more knowledgeable than others.

So if you went there years ago and were pissed off, it's worth trying again. I have never been to any of the other locations.

Speaking from someone who would never let a mechanic touch one of my bikes in a million years — (I wrenched in shops for several years as a kid) — I can say that I buy crap from all the local shops and honestly I can't really say that any of them are pricks.

I can say that certain shops have good and bad days, but I honestly can't say there is a shop I would avoid at all costs (that I've been to).

Dirty Harry's is a good shop. They helped me out when I bought a pair of Specialized shoes where a strap broke after a month or so of riding, and they replaced them on the spot instead of making me wait for a new pair to show up (but I had to switch colors in exchange for that since they didn't have the red trim in stock... oh well). They have given me good deals on tires and aren't pushy.

I've been to Pro Bikes in squirrel hill — and they helped me out in getting a bike built in a day I had to finish in one day. They were the only shop in town that had all the parts I needed (some hard to find stuff) AND when I asked for some recommended tires for the rail trail ride I was doing, they came up with the Kenda Qwick tires which were probably the CHEAPEST ones they sold and said they would work great (instead of pushing super expensive tires on me), and the tires DID work great.

The old TRM Cycles in south hills (can't remember their new name now) has been cool recently. They gave me a deal on some tires and crap I needed recently and one day I needed some last minute mounting bolts for my rear rack last week and they just gave me a handful and said "no charge."

I agree that some shops that cater to the "elitist" crowd — ie. the doctors that spend $5,000 - $10,000 for bikes they ride on the bike paths tend to be somewhat arrogant at times, but I think it is a reflection of the individual staff members.

I'd be royally PISSED if I owned a shop and I heard about my people treating customers with arrogance or making snide comments etc regardless if they rolled in on a $10,000 road bike or a HUFFY.

West Liberty had some really nice Continental tires I picked up before a ride last week. They were expensive but I knew inside that I could shop around and not be as happy as I was with those tires. The fact I never had a single tire issue on a 350 mile ride last week was something to be thankful for.

I've been to the Trek store here and there in East Liberty and they are cool.

Granted, when you know exactly what you want and know what you are talking about, shop people tend to be "nicer" to you. Every now and then I get some arrogant dingbat who argues with me about something that I know he is wrong about, but I would say overall I've never really had a "BAD" experience in a shop around here.

I love Kraynicks, but even Jerry can be in a bad mood once in awhile, but I still don't care since he has every friggin' tool I could ever need if I can't do something in my own shop at home.

I also used to go to Scholl's a lot because it was close to my old house and they were always cool to deal with.

The bike shop business is so competitive that I don't find too many owners to treat customers badly, usually it is the employees who don't know any better since it is a high turnover come-and-go seasonal business for most of them (only the best mechanics and employees work year-round).

That is just my $.02 on the subject. If I had a bike shop that I would flat-out refuse to go to I would certainly list it.

And I never buy new bikes myself anymore since I can always buy them used for less than half the price and know how to fix anything wrong with them.

If money were no object I would buy at a shop but then again, I would pretty much not be asking for any help either.

sarah q, entire bike culture has changed in that span of time. Utility biking has skyrocketed, touring has re-emerged, comfort biking has become respectable. Manufacturers have figured out that people other than Frank Schleck wannabees have money to spend. Fixie hipster snobbery is hopefully dying a painful and not quick enough death. And hopefully shops are picking up on that as well.

Funny about Kraynick's, I looove Kraynick's shop - but I think sometimes he plays a game with me. I'll go in and ask directly for something I know I need, but he'll ask more and detailed questions to see how deep I go, like "do you need an English or JIS taper on that 113 millimeter bottom bracket spindle?". I just give, nobody's going to win that game against Jerry.

Our typical repair is a bike that has been left in a basement or backyard all winter and the customer wants to ride the bike for the summer. After assessing the neglected bike and giving the customer a quote for cables, housing, chain, cassette and labor, some cant understand why it cost over $100 to repair a bike they purchased for $300 ten years ago. We have customers whose bike is their sole mode of transportation, but fail do do any maintenance at all, riding the bike into the ground and get upset with us because we cant service the bike while they wait. We also have customers who get a bike at Bikes Direct and want us to assemble it and cant understand why we are not too thrilled to build that bike.

So your response is the blame the customer? Communicate clearly about your schedules and expected time and cost of work, don't play the blame game. How come other shops in the area, who are no doubt quoting similar prices for the same work, don't carry the same reputation as your shop? And I understand that building Bikes Direct bikes is only labor and you make no money on the parts, but work is work. You charge for it, and in turn, the customer pays. If satisfied, he/she will probably come back for more.

FWIW, I had a similar experience as sarah_q and Been_there_done_that posted. I came in looking for a compression plug, part number in hand, and was given the run around about how it might not fit my steerer and why I have to have Pro BIkes install it (and get charged for the labor, of course).

It's not always about the short term profit, it's about treating potential customers respectfully and building a customer base. Yeah, I get that the $10 profit you make on my $20 part isn't keeping the lights on, but if I wasn't dicked around for such a small part, maybe I would be a Pro Bikes customer too. Unfortunately, no one there seems to get that. There are more than a handful of great shops in this city, I see no reason to return.

It seems that even in the last year and a half to two years the culture has changed a great deal.

rice rocket - I tend to agree. Part of why I was so comfortable at Big Bang was because they spent a lot of time with me. I ended up buying an inexpensive bike from them, but I returned to buy a rack and a floor pump. Each time they answered all of my questions and even looked over my basement department store bike for free.

It is the little things, or non-money making gestures that often win over long term customers. There is also something to be said for a salesperson's delivery method on a $100 tuneup to the normal Joe like me. I feel like Big Bang would explain and show me all of what needed done and explain the why.

Just my POV...I fall into the category of "just riding it into the ground"...

Aaron from Pro Bikes here. Good morning Bike Pgh. As dedicated pittsburgh cyclists we read the forums and can't help but join in the conversation (especially when it's about us). @ OP We would love to help you find your perfect bike at a reasonable price. If you would like to want to check out our S. Hills shop stop by ask for Kris. He is the store manager and is generally there except for Wednesdays. On another note we strive to provide excellent service at reasonable prices but like anyone else sometimes fall short. If you have had a negative experience in the past please give us another shot. If you use our Sq Hill shop please don't be afraid to ask for me (Aaron) and I'll try and make sure you leave happy. If you use Monroeville Ask for Chas or Jordan and the will do the same. Have a safe day everyone

Thanks, probikes/aaron for chiming in.

It's reassuring, somehow, to know that you and other staff people at probikes read the message board, and are otherwise active members of the local cycling community.

Since I try to support my very tiny LBS whenever possible, I am rarely a customer at Probikes. But, it is nice to know who to ask for at the various locations, and that the overall mission at Probikes is not as elitist as the public image might have been.

Interesting about bike culture changing, generally. I think that's true too.

When I went to Trek regularly there was one mechanic I trusted (I am sure there was more than one good one there, but one I knew). I have found the same thing at ProBikes. Dennis can fix anything; I trust him completely. I am sure there are lots of guys there that are good. But for me I like knowing without a doubt that when I hand my bike off it's going to be done right.

+1 for Dennis

A few comments, for what they're worth.

1. I've been treated very well by the old Pgh Pro Bikes, and by Pro Bikes. When Pgh Pro misquoted me on a bike price by $400, the owner, Alan, honored the low quote despite the shop losing $400, and despite me not pressing the issue. When that frame cracked years later, I took it to the new Pro Bikes and Alan had the latest version of the frame in my hands by the week's end, no questions asked, even though I spent no money there in the intervening years and the old Pgh Pro was defunct. I have had, and am now having, the same positive experiences with warranty issues at Dirty Harry's shop.

2. Among other reasons, I shop at those stores out of a genuine respect for the owners. I have seen both show tremendous generosity to various people over the years, including many instances where there was nothing to gain but whatever good karma comes from being a fundamentally decent human being. Also, both have done a lot, in various ways, to support Pittsburgh cycling over the years. The same is true of others.

3. I can't dispute anyone's unfavorable experiences with any particular shop. But it should be recognized that any business is going to have disgruntled customers, customers who are a poor fit for the products and services offered, customers whose expectations are unreasonable, and so on.

4. Overall I think we are pretty lucky to have the selection of shops and other vendors that we have. If you don't believe me, just go to Youngstown, Ohio or Johnstown and count the bike shops.

The sheer number of bike shops per capita is one of the things I love about this city. I may be a big booster of thick as I have been friends with Chris for a very long time, but the number of truly exceptional bike shops we have to choose from around here is amazing. Even the one or two I'm not too crazy about would rank at least above average in most cities.

@cburch your "boostership" of Thick led me to finally checking them out today. I left the store with a Fuji hardtail! Adam & Chris were awesome. Now i just have to decide if i should put my long-planned road ride for tomorrow off, and hit the Frick trails with the Casual Friday group for the first time.

Since its my ride I'm gonna say Casual Friday!

Torn! Perhaps if i get out early enough i can rest before the MTB ride...we shall see. Thanks.

@julieb: Do Colin's Casual Friday ride tomorrow, then do the Pgh-Randos 200K road ride on Saturday. Problem solved!

Coughyoutoodancough

hmmm...thinking...thinking.... @dan didn't you say that you got a MTB recently (like within the last few months) and that it hasn't yet seen dirt?

Uh...uh...I can't ride tomorrow. The wheels aren't on the 29er, and I, uh, don't have time to, uh, put them back on. Or something.

(Actually, I can't because I've got a hot date planned...two kids, Chinese takeout, and Shrek 4.)

[Edited to add:] But I did put it on my calendar for next week, so feel free to mock me mercilessly if I don't show...

I do love Big Bang as well. When I was shopping for my Tri bike I came down to BB and BikeTek. I went between them 2-3 times tryin to decide between bikes and have nothing but good things to say about Glenn. He spent probably an hour, I not closer to ninety minutes fitting me and going over the bikes and such. And this was on a relatively inexpensive bike by BB standards. The Only reason I didn't go with them came down to bike fitment.

@rice rocket I think you are seeing too much in demigod response. IMHO he is not blaming customer. He just explained situation where there is no win/win. I saw a couple of times how some guys left shops completely pissed off just because they bought bike for $500-600 3 years ago, rode lime stone packed trails only, never cleaned chain, constantly adding oil. And at the moment I was in shop they faced chain, cogs and chain rings (I think derailleurs also) needed to be replaced. So parts were more than $140 plus labor. And tune up. So total was more than $220 -- about 40% of total bike cost. The shop guy explained why the price is this high, what went wrong and even how long different parts ae going to last under different conditions. Still those guys left pissed off.

@reddan i won't be able to ride next week, so if i don't meet/see you tomorrow night (uh, i think i just committed), i will wait to see what merciless verbal pummeling takes place online. as for the ride on saturday, that is so tempting. and, i don't think i feel confident in myself to ride a 200k yet.

@julieb: There's also the 35/65/100 mile options on Sunday, for the WPW Fall Rally. The 100 is nice if you're feeling a bit unsure, as it's merely the 65-mile loop back to the start, followed by the 35-mile loop; so you've got a built-in escape option if you need it.

@julieb, FWIW, this will be my first 200k, and I guarantee you/anyone could keep up with me if you've done any long rides ever, so if you're bored on Saturday, you should totally come

Demigod

It is NOT the mechanics in the shop. It is the front people and management.

I will not go into details, but lets just say I know more about the inner workings at Pro-Bikes then the average bear.

Rice Rocket -

Something that maybe Demigod is missing -

Labor is BIG profit.

I dont know what he is paid, I'll give a stupid amount - $20/hr

The shop likely bases retail pricing on between $80-$120/hr.

The assembly charge is probably somewhere around $100.

(I did NOT call and ask - this is all conjecture, but the relative pricing still stands).

It takes about 1hr to assemble an unfamiliar bike from a box. I've done box to customer in as little as 20 minutes.

If it takes Demigod 1.5 hours to build the bike - he takes a lunch break and has to go over somethings 'cause he forgot where he was before lunch. It cost Pro-bikes $30. They get $100 for the labor - profit $70 or 230%

There are 2 places bike shops make money - labor and parts/accessories.

New bikes - even at $10k - are 'Loss leaders' - at the low end base profit margin is ~30% (a $300 retail bike costs the shop around $230). Markups (%) on more expensive bikes is less, and the interwebs put a LOT of pressure on that margin.

By the time you stock the bike, build it for the showroom, pay a sales person to sell it, pay the over head (utilities, rent etc), give the customer 1 or more free 'tune-ups', you have little or no profit.

So... If I'm running a shop - BRING IT ON, I'll build on-line purchased bikes all day! Then sell the buyer lots of high profit (50%-200%) accessories

The online store can sell the bike, with a less then 'standard' retail markup (30%), AND pay part or all of the shipping charges.

Forgot to mention:

My last bike came from Pro Bikes in Monroeville. Was prepared to spend between $500 and $3000, spent about $1300 on a bike they sold for $1600 and then got 2 free fittings and some other gear at a discount nearing 50%. Had an issue with some of the clearcoat/epoxy flaking on the fork. Zero issues, they took care of it. I was asked to contact Cannondale first as it was mentioned that the warranty process might be a little easier for all that way. No go that route, no reply. They went to bat and got the fork in and swapped it almost right away.

Fast forward to wanting new wheels. Went in, prepared to spend $2000 based on what the internet told me. Was told to look at a set for $800 and to wait until I needed them unless I wanted them. If I wanted them they would contact me about some take-offs that were expected and would sell them for less.

So far I have been told to spend less. Now that may push me into a more profitable item for them but based on their suggestions and my needs I ended up with more than I need still. I would have wasted my money on what I originally looked at.

been-there-done... So what happens when a shop like Dirty Harry's gives free labor if you buy the parts there? When I buy stuff in the shop, they install it for free. If they're not crazy busy, they often will show me what they're doing and how, which is awesome, so I get to learn too.

For the parts I've been able to check, the prices are comparable (and sometimes WAY better) than what I've found online, but again maybe I'm not looking in the right places, I'm not a true gear head.

ejwme -

you go back right?

so DH staff (mechanics) give you a few minutes/hour of time to install new part(s) (large markup). Markup, in most cases, still covers actual cost of mechanic's time. As I said above - labor costs are cheap - relatively speaking.

At $20/hr - if the mechanic takes 30 minutes to install and talk to you it costs DH $10. On a $200 parts purchase this represents probably 10% (maybe less) of the gross profit.

Additionally, you go back to DH's right? So.. by giving you a few minutes, taking a small reduction in profit, they get a returning (and happy) customer, who then spends more $.

BTW - the RETURNING AND HAPPY parts are very very very important.

Something Pro Bikes should learn....

(although in Orionz06's case it sounds like they are treating him well. -- then again he bought a bike, and has spent a significant amount of $).

----

Well... as for pricing of parts, above I indicated 'standard' markups. Wholesalers, and manufacturers have sales too. Last years left overs, over stocks etc. Lower initial costs can equal lower retail pricing.

There are also differences in cost structures for different shops.

Things such as :

do they rent the retail space? own it? if so, is it paid for? If they rent - that has to be covered every month, if they own then mortgage and property taxes have to be covered, if the building is owned AND paid for - then only property taxes have to be covered (much less overhead cost then the other 2 options).

Do they sell new bikes? Do they buy them outright (fully paid for on delivery, or on a short term 'same as cash' deal), The $ they are using to pay for the bikes - is that 'on hand' or is that money borrowed? If it is borrowed, then there are additional interest costs. Do they have a credit line with the supplier, in which case they also may be paying interest charges. If through any means of acquisition of the new bikes, they are paying interest, then that increases the cost of each bike.

If they sell new bikes, how many? 10, 100, 1000, 10000 - this will affect pricing - Performance sells a LOT of bikes, many stores over a large area + internet sales. You can be sure they don't pay the same wholesale price for a bike that a shop that sells 10 bikes does.

You probably get the point. There are many many things that affect the under lying cost structure of a shop, which in turn affects what markup they have to make to be profitable.

Actually, the above is true for any business.

oi!

I'm happy, and returning. They must be doing something right, they've been there for a while.

Been_There_Done_That, which shop do you run around here?

I spread my money around

primarily, East End.

DH, Performance, Kraynick.

Although I have/do frequent West Liberty Cycles, and Gatto

I havent really spent any time in the 'Newer' shops - Thick, Iron City etc.

I had a really sucky time the one and only time I went into Pro Bikes here in Monroeville -- I was trying to buy an extra long derailleur cable (because I'd routed my derailleur housing under the tape from the barcons all the way to the top, and the regular cable didn't reach). This led to a claim by the manager (!) of the store that I must be doing something wrong, whenever he installed the derailleur cable it reached fine, etc., until he finally relented and revealed he could, in fact, sell me a long derailleur cable made for a tandem. I was astonished at the persistence of his arrogance (in light of my impression that Pro Bikes has tried to clean up their act) and would never go back there.

On the other hand, whenever I've gone into the Squirrel Hill store (because BikeTek was closed) in the last year or two I've been treated well. So maybe that store really is being managed well. Of course, long past experiences left a bad taste in my mouth and I avoid it unless I really need to pick up something and there's no alternative.

If you have so much housing that you need a tandem derailleur cable for a normal bike that is generally accepted as poor practice that will cause shifting problems. If you're using bar end shifters I can see how it would work ok. Sounds like he should have just accepted you're going to do what you're going to and sold you the cable you needed rather than argue.

Yep. Or, possibly, asked what I was doing differently. His arrogance was made clear by his assumption that I didn't know what I was doing.

BTW other people out here have had trouble with that store too -- my boss went in there looking for a bolt for a seat post and was told they don't have that, you have to buy a new seat post. Now, I'm pretty sure they have a bolt that would fit back there in a box some place. Or another friend of mine who went in there shopping for a road bike and was completely turned off. That store is getting quite a reputation around here.

Just for a summary ;

Here is how I score this thread :

For (good/support) - 5

Against (bad/wont go back) - 11

Intermediate - 6

Intermediate = posts which indicated a positive experience and a negative. I did not count the 2 Pro bike employee's posts. I also did not count posts which did not specify an opinion, such as simply stating that they carried a lot of stuff.

I did not see a negative post regarding any other bike shop mentioned.

Personally - if my shop was getting a 2 : 1 bad vs good reviews + 6 intermediates some of which indicated both a good and bad experience - I - would make changes. BUT since Pro Bikes has had this reputation since.... at least the time Angelo left (1990???) I'm guessing they will do nothing to change.

I have a negative against Thick but I am sure it is an anomaly based on what everyone else says and a neutral for Dirty Harry's but their location limits me more than a neutral.

b-t-d-t I don't know that I would assume a common management or sales force for the aggregate comments here.

I may be wrong, but I think that store's seen substantial changes over the years, and some employees responsible for bad experiences may no longer be there due to their sales techniques (or lack thereof, or simply because they continued on to a different position or employer). I'm sure the owner(s) or manager(s) over the years have all instituted various changes in an attempt to provide better service to their perceived clientele (which, as others have pointed out, is also changing).

I'd weight recent experiences more heavily than older ones, and recent repeated experiences more heavily than single anecdotes. But in all cases they're still our neighbors, fellow riders, and board readers.

I don't have much experience with Pro Bikes since Angelo left, actually. When he was around, he (and the other guys) tolerated me as a high school-er who liked to mill about the shop. Vaguely related, I remember when they used to sell outdoor gear in the space next to the shop....

ejwme

well - there is at least one continuous thread at pro bikes - admittedly he is not in all the shops - but....

Alan Orlansky

He was one of the 4 original Pro Bikes owners (along with Angelo Celone(sp?), Bud Harris, Raleigh Pearson(sp?)).

Without going into too much detail. but at least some.

The basic deal was Angelo and Raleigh would put up knowledge and time/labor (the shop officially started in Raleigh's basement) while Alan and Bud would put up $. They opened a retail store in what is now a Glutton free bakery next to Giant Eagle in Sq Hill.

This seemed to work for a while, eventually both Bud and Alan started spending more time at the shop, and Alan seemed to become a hands on owner/manager, while Bud still stayed mostly on the sideline.

They moved the shop to the old Bike Rack Location, next to Napoli Pizza. Not immediately, but soon after the move Bud was angling to sell his share of the business. I'm not sure of the exact order of events, but Bud did sell his share, to a guy named Ed - something. About this time, I *think* it was before the sale, but again i'm not entirely sure. Alan along with Bud (if this happened before the sale) or Ed (if it happened after the sale) forced Raleigh out of the business.

At the same time Angelo seemed to become an employee rather then an owner. Not long, a year(?) maybe 2(?) after Raleigh was forced out Angelo was too.

It is about this time that Pro Bike's reputation started to fail.

Since, Bike Tech did reasonably well, and to my knowledge had/has a decent reputation, This would indicate that neither Frank (also a former Pro Bike employee) nor Angelo were the problem with Pro Bike's reputation; although that partnership seems to have failed, while the shop is still functioning.

So... already long story, shortened, Alan Orlansky seems to be a common thread... Since he is still there, although, as I understand he is no longer an owner.

I've been shopping at Pro Bikes since my wife and I bought our first "adult" bikes at the old Monroeville store (when they were in the same plaza as Valley Honda) in early 2007. They were still Pgh Pro Bikes at the time.

In the five+ years since, I've hardly been to any other shop, and have bought a number of other bikes there.

I've never had a problem that wasn't acknowledged and addressed in an appropriate fashion, and I recommend them to anyone I know who's looking for a bike, parts, or service.

Mark me down as RETURNING AND HAPPY.

To get back to the OP's question, though, I've never been to their shop in the South Hills.

Been_there_done_that, is the only reason you created your account is to criticize a local business that about 40 hard working and dedicated people make their living at? Are you are former disgruntled employee of ProBikes? It seems that you have the history of the shop somewhat skewed and omitted many things that happened. Also, Alan Orlansky is the greatest man in Pittsburgh!

I was trying to stay out of this conversation, but I just want to throw this out there. Pro Bikes (Sq. Hill) isn't my favorite shop (partly just personal preference, and partly for reasons that you can find out about if you are devoted enough to go digging through my post history, since this shop-X-vs.-shop-Y conversation pops up now and then), but even I have only positive things to say about Alan. He sold me my first bike (and gave me a lot of great advice at the time), and I've had numerous experiences with him since then. Granted, I don't know much at all about the ownership/management history of Pro Bikes or Alan's role in said history, but I'm pretty convinced that Alan is a good dude.

I never said was was a bad guy. I said he was/is a common thread at Pro Bikes spanning many, many employees and owners.

That is a fact .

There is only ONE person who has been at Pro Bikes during ALL of the time that Pro Bikes has had it's less then stellar reputation. That person is Alan Orlansky.

You can cry and whine and brag and kiss butt all you want - that will not change this fact.

He was there when both Angelo and Raleigh were removed from the business - and I know, that at least in Raleigh's case, there was *NO* buy-out. I am not as sure about Angelo - although I do not believe that there was a buy-out there either.

It is not possible to blame, Angelo, Raleigh, Bud Harris, Ed Heckman, or any other owner or employee - as they are ALL gone, yet Pro Bikes reputation did not significantly improve.

You, personally, may like him. You, personally may have had good dealings with him. That doesn't change the fact - there is one person - one - who has been at Pro Bikes during the entire time it has had it's poor reputation.

If you don't think it has a poor reputation, look at this thread -

my earlier summary put 11 bad vs 6 (one added later) good experiences. This is obviously not a scientific survey, but it is more positive in it's view of Pro Bikes then my personal interactions with people would have lead me to believe.

I still question if you work at one of the aforementioned shops.

B_t_d_t, I think it's interesting that you have no problem calling people out by name but won't comment on your own experience with these people (or give your own name). So convenient.

In your previous post, you may not have explicitly stated that Alan Orlansky was a bad guy, but you certainly built the whole post (and Pro Bikes reputation) around him.

Just saying.

I'm not a big fan of pro bikes but i've historically not been their target demographic though. That said, your shit is starting to stink. Anonymously talking shit about someone by name is pretty damn weak. It makes me want to go spend money there just to spite you.

Also, how are thick and iron city still considered new shops but not performance or trek, both of which opened well after Bob and Chris? You're weird.

haha, i'd been thinking the same thing - this makes me want to go shop at pro bikes out of spite. also, you can add to your highly scientific study that i've only had good experiences there.

are you his ex-wife or something? seriously, give it up.

Alan is a good guy and always helps me out a ton when I am there. BTDT, maybe he was a jerk to you because you're a huge asshole?

First - nice ad hominem posts...

All I have really done it point out a common thread, and made a, to me, obvious connection. For many years, 20(?), 30(?), Pro Bikes has had a less then stellar reputation. If you see the same facts, combined with your own personal experience, and come to a different conclusion - that is fine. I have laid out what I see. To many on this board, I expect, they don't know much of Pro Bikes history; accept my statements about what happened in Pro Bike's past or not.

To my knowledge, no other, still functioning, bike shop in Pgh has had/still has such a reputation. Sure there are people who "hate" some specific shop. However, rarely do you see/hear wide spread dissatisfaction with other shops. The last shop, that I remember, having a similar reputation is no more. I expect very few on this board will remember or know 'Velocipede'.

cburch - likely our definition of 'new' is different. To me, 'old' shops (not an inclusive list) are shops such as Kraynicks', Scholl's, DH, Gatto's, and even though it is under new management, West Liberty. This leaves a lot of shops, to me, as 'New' - I didn't intend in my previous post to give an inclusive list of 'new' shops; and yes, to me, both Performance and Trek are 'new' too.

Often it is useful/needed to understand the source of information or opinions. To that end, let me give you a few bits about my history and cycling in Pgh which are relevant.

I have worked all aspects of a shop, except as owner, I have done sales, wrenching, been a manager, opened, closed, etc. etc. I have worked at a number of shops in the Pgh area, as well as outside of Pa. This does include having worked at Pro Bikes.

I knew both Angelo and Raleigh before Pro Bikes existed. I was friends with Raleigh, I know what he told me happened when he left Pro Bikes, the shop he started in his basement. Unfortunately, as probably few here know, there is no way to get Raleigh to confirm my statements, as he has passed.

I have been involved with bikes for a long time, as my above reference to 'Velocipede' should attest to those who remember that shop.

You're still anonymously talking shit. And thats still weak as fuck, I don't care what sort of history you have in Pittsburgh.

I Never went to pro bikes but as a new seller of new bikes and new items, new to me as im a vintage bike collector now selling new stuff as well ; i have found the longer you do what you do the more you will find unhappy buyers,,but thats a low % out of how many are happy,,,i bet pro bikes are good people, all and all i think they are a good bike shop,,,just thinking

Every couple of years we get someone on here with a beef with Alan. Like I've said before I'm not a fan of the store but I'm so sick of the shit talking about Alan. He is who he is and the store is what it is an it's always been like that and it will probably always be like that. Certain people will love it and certain people will hate it. Find a shop you like and move on. There are a ton of great shops in this city and they all cater to a slightly different crowd.

"I knew both Angelo and Raleigh before Pro Bikes existed."

If this doesn't make you an expert on customer satisfaction, I really don't know what does...

I will mention them because I have not seen them in this thread at all yet, but I have always had a great experience at REI. I guess they aren't a typical bike shop but they have a decent selection of bikes which can be a good deal when they go on sale, and they have a service department. Adam at the Settler's Ridge store, always came off to me as someone who wanted to see you out riding and enjoying yourself, and was going to help you do that even if it didn't end up as a sale.

I haven't head much experience with Pro Bikes. Cburch summed it up best when he said, "Find a shop you like and move on."

I've had good experiences at Ambridge, Big Bang, West Liberty, REI and Trek. I haven't been to other stores, so any omission is an indication of my ignorance, rather than their incompetence or lack of professionalism. It's significant that the one somewhat negative encounter I had was with an owner of a long defunct shop who made some contemptuous remarks about people who bought high-end bikes (reverse elitism, if you will) not long after I bought a fairly pricey bike there. I never went back, and the shop was shuttered a year later. It's probably safe to say that I wasn't the only one put off by his mannerisms.

We're lucky to have have so many shops catering to so many cyclists and cycling subcultures here.

One a less related note, I'm fascinated by the mixture of high-tech gear housed in businesses that adhere to a decidedly personal and old-fashioned connection with customers. I often visit simply for the camaraderie and conversation.

i think part of the problem in pittsburgh is that we've got kraynick's. never have i been to a retail shop that so desperately wanted me to not spend money there. we're just spoiled, plain and simple.

drewbacca -

do you work for the GOP???

What an interesting way to take a single statement, take it out of context, and then spin to apply to a topic it was not intended for!

At what point did I say that knowing Raleigh and Angelo had anything to do with customer service???

I didn't. That information was posted as some of my personal history in Pgh in relation to both cycling and Pro Bikes.

Shouldn't need to be said but... This information then goes to support what information I previously posted regarding the actions which occurred early in Pro Bikes history.

Quit digging.

It also seems somewhat a moot point as the majority of posters on this board don't go to the South Hills Pro Bikes anyways.

This isn't the Bike Bethel Park message board after all

Yeah, Kraynick's is a real Pittsburgh treasure. Jerry has a lot to do with cycling culture here.

I have been to Kraynick's and could not get Jerry to take my money no matter how hard I tried. Thick Bikes is just a great place and are great friends to me, same with Iron City. I was treated like a king at West Liberty Cycles and Dirty Harry's. People at Big Bang were really nice, and I really like our neighbors at Biketek. The only place that I thought really sucked was Performance Bikes when the sales person asked me to leave my bag behind the counter and shadowed me throughout the store. Shopping there was like browsing the aisles at 7-11 in the skid row.

But it is what it is. Every morning that I put my key in the shop door, open the shop and try my hardest to do my best and treat people like I want to be treated. I have no control of the past.

I have a feeling that I have not yet lived life, as I have never been to Kraynick's.

I have never been either.

demigod - I've been to the Performance Bikes in EL and had good experiences, but noticed some odd turnover (I happened to be there and in need, and stop in repeatedly over the first few months that it was open). When it first opened there were a predictable few, super helpful people there, but later they had a wider variety of sales people - some were awesome help, some I think I confused or startled. I got the impression that, due to its size, it had sales people from the whole spectrum from "I was born with chain lube in my veins" to "I sold a bike at a Walmart once". The former may have been brought in to start up the store, the latter may be an unfair perception on my part - none of them provided me with an unpleasant experience, though.

I wonder if shadowing you was a reaction to the bike thefts from their parking lot and potentially higher than expected shoplifting losses? I wouldn't expect shoplifting at a bike shop, but I wouldn't expect people to steal bikes from cars either (and I know that happened there).

Going to Kraynick's is like riding the incline, or going to the Carnegie Museum or Aviary. You have to do it, even if it's just once and a special trip. It's completely worth it. I've never been anywhere else quite like it. Like Santa's workshop, condensed, if Santa were a gear head and his elves all ran away (though some customers adequately approximate awesomely helpful elves). I've been there three times, and never saw the stair case until someone descended along a wall from a hole in the ceiling. It was like labrynth though, and I couldn't find the staircase after they were down. Really worth the trip.

My son Peter compared it to one of those workshops in Japanese comic books, where there's an old man behind the bench who knows everything. You bring in your broken thing, he looks and says, "Haven't seen one of these since '48! Well, what's wrong here? Oh, hmmm... I think I've got one down here (reaches under the bench), ah! (Fits it in place) There! Good as new!"

jonawebb - yes! That's precisely him, complete with the penetrating gaze and sizing-up questions. Now cover the walls, ceiling, and floor with parts and doodads at least 6 deep and you've got it perfectly.

I have been to about every bike shop in our region.

1. Pro Bikes. They are fine and have a huge selection. I think people that hate them don't like some of the sales staff being a bit elitist in style. I have purchased personal items from Alan and used to go there at their old location. One of my favorite guys there was Tom, but he moved to Maine. I would do business with them.

2. Kraynick's. Not the kind of shop to roll in with a super high end bike loaded with Campy and all the latest stuff, but for a commuter and if you like to wrench yourself, there is no equal. Jerry is as nice as they come.

3. Dirty Harry's. I like this shop. Very knowledgable staff. Nothing bad to say, except Verona is hard to cycle to from Pittsburgh.

4. Big Bang Bikes. They carry a lot of high end stuff. They are okay, but if you have old Campy stuff that needs rebuilt, I wouldn't recommend them. Best to send that stuff out of town. Staff is okay, products are pretty amazing. Lots of eye candy.

5. Ambridge. One of my favorite shops and Larry has been in this business a very long time. He was part owner of Classic Cycle in East Liberty (showing my age). Bought my first road bike from him and still own it. Wish his shop was closer.

6. Bike Tech (Angelo). He is a good mechanic and does know a lot. I never got along with him much and his attitude, but he was young back then and he might be a lot different these days. He also didn't like Campy back in the day, so that might have been one of our issues. I would have no problem with him working on any bike, but he might not turn a wrench these days.

7. Trek in EL. They seem nice and I would do business there. I tend to buy bikes that are hand built, so I will probably never buy a bike there, but I have always been treated well there and no pressure.

8. Thick Bikes. I like this place and would do business there. Nice selection of interesting bikes. No pressure and I would do business there.

9. Performance. Some great deals on products and a nice staff. I don't know if they are as knowledgeable as I would like. I feel as if I know more than they do for the most part including the mechanic I talked to, but I still buy things there. Seem to have pretty good values for lights, tubes and such.

Pierce: "This isn't the Bike Bethel Park message board after all"

I find that really exclusionary, considering that many of us don't live in one of the "typical" bike places in Pittsburgh. Would you ask Stu to stop posting about bike shops in West View (this isn't the north hills message board), or Edmonds in Robinson (this isn't the western suburbs message board)?

The thread started with someone asking for advice about a Pittsburgh-area bike shop. Yes, it derailed badly from there, but I don't agree with stopping the discussion because the location isn't within city limits.

I think Angelo left BikeTek and it's just Frank running it now.