Putting Together Old 10sp
So I’ve got three ten speeds (and one modern BSO) in my basement. Two of the old 10 speeds are just BSO’s too.
One however is an old Schwinn Caliente. It feels mildly light so I’ve been meaning to fix it up. The derailleurs on it were rusted though, and originally I was going to turn it into a fixed gear so I took them off.
Now however, I want to turn it into a backup commuter. I’m going to take the derailleurs off one of the old BSO (which is heavy as hell) and put it on the Schwinn.
My question is, can I put bar end shifters on it? I’ve been looking around online, but only see things for modern bikes, which included an indexed rear (bar end) shifter designed for 8/9+ bikes. I’ve seen stuff for internal gear hubs, but nothing quite like I’m looking for.
Any comments/suggestions? Haven’t checked with Kraynicks yet, but I have a lingering suspicion he won’t have any
Most if not all indexed barcons can be set to friction mode.
You can get friction-only bar ends…for example, here.
Also, Shimano 8/9 bar-ends can be set to operate in friction mode.
Are you wedded to the idea of bar-ends, or would thumb shifters work for ya?
Yeah, I’ve heard nothing but good things about the Falcon Thumb Shifters, and at $12 they’re probably cheaper than any flavor of barcons you could hope to get anywhere outside of Kraynick’s.
I’ve actually got a pair of Falcon thumbies from VO sitting in a FedEx box on my porch right now…
The period correct Suntour bar end friction only shifters I installed on my 1972 Schwinn Sports Tourer are a complete delight and entirely natural to use. I am almost always in the hooks or drops and rarely on the tops or riding the hood. Tried the Falcons, (have three sets sitting around), but they do require a change in my position, so I’ll stay with the bar ends.
How you ride will dictate which will work for you.
If anyone does, Gerry will have a set of the Suntours.
Talked to Gerry, he didn’t carry any in stock because they were too expensive.
I paid $20 for the frame, so probably won’t drop $70 on the shifters.
Might be interested in the thumb shifters. Where would I put them on drop bars?
On a related note, anybody be interested in selling me an old rack that clamps on rear triangle?
Personally, I’m of the pay-for-the-parts, you-can-always-put-them-on-another-bike-later school of thought…
Not that I want to spend a ton of money on a 1976 frame that is technically too big for me anyways, but I can’t neglect the poor thing either.
Amazon has a pair of 8spd bar ends, Ultegra level for about $55. Just as soon as I pick up a pair of 700c wheels and cold-set the frame, I’ll be ordering those bad puppies and modernizing my old French monster with mostly spare parts. I can’t wait, but I can’t afford the wheel set at the moment. For me at least, the five speed friction shifter has to go. :p
I am of the mindset of headloss in theory, yet tend to improvise in practice…
My Suntours were an option for this bike stock for, if I remember correctly, an additional $9 (in 1972). I can see why Gerry didn’t carry them. That’s like a bazillion 2011 dollars. I like them because they are bulletproof, easily serviceable, and I can swap derailers and rear wheels out on my machine and don’t have to fret about indexing. The Suntours don’t care if I run a 5 gear freewheeled 27″ rim, or a 9 geared cassette on a 700C, nor if I’m running a crap Tourney 7 or sturdy LX 9 derailer. (Of course, neither do the Falcon thumbies…) Checked ebay and guess I lucked out in acquiring these on the cheap?
This guy has a set for $30? Whatever you do, don’t use regular grease to lube them; use fishing reel graphite or silicon high vacuum or Teflon grease. Works so much better and endures…
The Falcon thumbies are usually installed on the tops, but heck, toss them on wherever works for you.
Recently I saw an interesting installation online where someone had removed the suicide levers and installed their downtube (or were they stem?) shifters to that center screw in the brake lever. Haven’t dug it up yet, sorry. It will come to me, eventually. It was a variant to this Kelly approach.
Almost any rack can be hacked to attach to a frame without braze-ons, and in a better fashion then the clamp kits…
As I’m sure I’ve made all too abundantly clear I’ve issues with governance at a local “bike “collective””, and as the nascent Pgh Alternative Transportation Research and Innovation Center (PATRIC?) or Northside Bicycle Coop (NBC?) or whatever it’s eventually named, is not yet operational as far as I know, may I suggest consulting with Odell up at that other place, as he’s a wrench who can think and work “outside of the box”? Tell him the agitator sent you.
headloss, you’ve the time and smarts, why not build up a set of wheels for your pending tour? As Ripley said in “Aliens”, “It’s the only way to be sure.”
I don’t know what you have precisely, but most “five speed friction shifter(s)” are entirely stupid and yet completely capable of shifting across a ten speed cassette.
Invest in wheels. Spend on the shiny later.
Pierce, have you seen the seatpost racks? If you’re not carrying a heavy load, they’re handy.
Hmmm… unfortunately I usually carry like 40lbs at all times
Kraynick said he had some for $25, might try and trade him back a bottom bracket I got from him and didn’t need
I actually thought you might have been Odell. I might check out that $30 dollar end shifter guy
Gah, after taking the parts off the heavy Ross, I realized that the Schwinn parts (brake arms, brake levers, front derailleur) were nicer and lighter.
They looked like crap because the hardware was horribly rusted, but the core pieces were aluminum
Examined a seat post rack on a random ride the other night and that specimen is rated for only 20 lbs. It’s entirely my own prejudice, but I don’t fancy the design in any way: carries even that modest load too high, as if the pedalcyclist had gained 20 lbs, single attachment point around which it could pivot, lever arm…
I like the Bor Yueh racks. The 8mm version handles up to 25 kilograms, and the 10mm is stable with up to 40 or 50 kg. The 8mm is less then $20 and the the 10mm a little more, when Nashbar has them in stock. They go ridiculously quickly even through they never come with instructions and rarely with the right hardware to mount. They are the single best bargain rack option out there. I use one on one of my rides. Their weight ratings are conservative.
Currently Nashbar has their 50 lb. rated rack on sale for $20. Can’t review it though as I’ve no experience with it, nor even seen it.
Apologies for mixing lbs.(English) and kg.(Metric) in the same post. I had nothing to do with the original Hubble. Really. I swear.
You’ve obviously never corresponded with Odell, Pierce.
Your writing does seem a little more formal? Ended up with whatever Kraynick had. Seems study enough. What is the spring loaded things on racks supposed to be used for?
That’s to secure your “Composition” notebooks for school!
Is it steel or aluminum? Is it a Pletscher rack or just one of the spring loaded jobbies? Neither are noted for durability or carrying capacity. YMMV. Please be careful and cautious.
“More formal”? Hrumph. I mean no disrespect to Odell nor to you. I guess I’m just cranky today. Apologies extended to any offended.
Looks like it’s this:
Aluminum, rated up to 55lb
No offensive taken, couldn’t really think of a good word to describe the difference between speaking styles
Like this line from the description: “The fastening material is contained in the scope of delivery.”
“I don’t know what you have precisely, but most “five speed friction shifter(s)” are entirely stupid and yet completely capable of shifting across a ten speed cassette.
Invest in wheels. Spend on the shiny later.”
Wheels are the first priority, as I’d prefer to not have to deal with the 27″ tires and the 5spd freewheel. Updating to indexed shifting is a second priority since it’s my back up bike for friends to use and I feel that friction shifting is like driving a manual, not everyone is keen to do it (so nice to have both options in one shifter). Not to mention, I’m just not a fan of the stem style shifters that are on it currently.
Pierce – I had that exact same rack, from Kraynicks, or very similar. The mouse trap thingy prevented my pannier clips from going on the rails. If you are using panniers, make sure the clips will work with the rack BEFORE getting the rack completely installed on the bike. Just a tip.
@headloss: Most rental cars are automatic, so your analogy plays well. Most who think they can drive stick, really can’t. This will date me, but automatic did not exist in its current efficient form, and friction was pretty much all there was when I learned to drive and ride. (Mtb’s were far in the future and yet to be invented, so we had to evade the dinosaurs on our friction shifting ten speeds…)
Apologies if I came off didactic. Only mean to be pedalriffic.
Are your 27’s aluminum or steel rimmed?
Don’t like stem (or downtube) shifters either, which is why I went for the Suntour bar end shifters. If it’s a “guest rider”, thumbies might be more familiar to whomever?
I’m curious how your bike is “technically” too big for you. My most comfortable riders are by some metrics “too big” for me. Rather then mind the guidelines, I hew to Peterson’s approach and by his standard, (sort of), they fit!
I recently put barcons on my tandem, replacing the broken Shihmano brifter. I’m still catching myself, when shifting, dropping my hand to the downtube. No! Bad Hand! It’s striking how long that habit has persisted, since I haven’t ridden a bike with downtube shifters since the turn of the century. I guess it’s just like riding a bike.
so i am more or less in need of new shifters, and i’m looking for an upgrade. i’ve got sora brifters now, and they’ve done well for all that i’ve used them, but the indexing is getting a little rough, the right shifter no longer springs back, and i think i would like something better.
tell me more about these so-called “bar-end shifters”. what do you like about them compared to brifters? i might consider heading in that direction, if i can get a solid shifter (with the friction option) for less than the $300ish it would cost to upgrade my shifters.
oh, and, can you just put them on any old bar end?
Oh, Lyle, now you’ve got me wanting to go back to downtube shifters just to be cantankerous.
What I like is that they cost less than the $300 it would take to replace one stupid little part inside my right Shitmano brifter (because you can’t buy the small part, you have to buy the entire assembly, and you can’t buy them individually, you have to buy a pair, and nobody has used right brifters for sale because THEY ALL BREAK FIRST!!!). But the $80 Shitmano barcons I have aren’t really impressive in terms of long-term indexing durability. We’ll see how well the friction mode works after the indexing breaks.
I prefer the Campy brifters, both for ergonomics and ability to repair. And I prefer brifters for the ability to shift while braking or accelerating.
Bill, I’m seriously considering putting this whole bike back to ca 1981. 6 spd freewheel, friction downtube shifters, etc.
But I’m more likely to go IGH for ten years first.
I picked up an aluminum front wheel from FreeRide, but clumsily neglected to realize it was a quick release rather than a bolt on (and the hub needed to be re-dished)
The wheels are pretty bad; steel, rear heavily rusted
@edmonds, thanks I’ll check that before I install it
I think I’ll try the stem shifters for now and if I get the bike to a point where I like it, I’ll try and look for a set of bar ends
@Fungi, regarding dinosaurs, my uncle is the original owner of my 76 motobecane. He had a very bad experience evading a dinosaur on an incline which is primarily why he decided to go out and buy a new bike and leave old frenchie to waste away. I’m not sure what caused the problem for him (whether it was the tuning or simply that the parts were dated?) but I’d like to keep the option of giving his bike back at some point and I believe that he would appreciate indexing on the rear which is why I lean that direction. Perhaps a better path would be to upgrade to trekking bars with mtb shifters but then it starts getting expensive, especially since the bike is old and French with lots of weird size issues. On the same token, I’d prefer that the bike look original (with drop bars)… so it’s a preference thing over function on that particular issue.
On a side note, I believe that driving a manual in Ireland while sitting in the “passenger’s seat” was by far one of the oddest experiences I’ve had behind a wheel.
27s are aluminum (with a few rust spots, presumably due to steel embedded in the aluminum by a wire brush, a problem I actually saw regularly in the navy when stainless steel valves would have light rust spots due to someone cleaning a carbon-steel valve and then a stainless steel valve with the same brush… now who’s being didactic :p ). Anyhoo, the rims are old and need to be replaced regardless (or at least lightly machined to remove said rust “freckles” and a few burrs and nicks… did I mention these are the original rims!), the spokes are steel and are rusting as well, so it’s time for a new build. I just figure go with 700c over the 27″ for the sake of tire options and because I don’t mind widening the frame to accommodate the extra 10mm for an 8spd cassette hub. Fortunately the brake pads will reach.
Yeah, thumbies might be more familiar to guests but as I mentioned above, I’d go all out with a trekking bar if I were to take that approach. Personally, I’d like to have the feel of riding an antique without the fear of shift lever in my privates LOL (I’d even consider the down-tubes if I had the correct brazons, but I *think* that I prefer bar ends… not sure since I’ve never had a chance to use them). Also, I’d just like to have an extra set of bar-end indexable shifters on hand for a later touring bike… since they seem difficult to acquire at times (the 7spd version seems non existant and I fear the same fate might await the 8speed at some point in the future.
It’s too big, but ride-able. There is no crotch clearance at all. Not that I’d be picky on a bike that is just slightly big but this bike is probably a 58cm frame (or bigger) and I’d be pushing it to ride a 56cm (stand over is 32 and 5/16″ while the toptube and seat tube are both roughly 23″). The biggest problem is that I have short legs for my size (5’9″ with 31″ inseam w/shoes) and with the saddle at the lowest possible position, I just barely manage to pedal comfortably (I haven’t measured the crank arm length so I suppose that is something to consider as well).
I’ve never known you (or anyone here) to be anything short of “pedalriffic!”
Brake question for you guys:
I have a pair of old center-pull style dual pivot brakes. They are pretty much ineffective even after I tightened the cable to where they are just barely touching the rim before I pull the lever. I’m assuming that I just need new pads due to age (the bike hasn’t been ridden in years)?
Are there any advantages to mounting a side-pull setup, or adding brazons for cantilevers? Any advantage to using a pair of levers that are newer than the thirty-five year old stock levers?
Strictly speaking mechanical advantage and better stopping power that is, I’m not worried about clearance…
Headloss: Quick reply to your brake question: it stopped me in my tracks.
Take a coarse file or rasp and grind down the faces of the pads to expose what should be virgin material underneath a crusty, time hardened surface. I’ve 39 yr old pads stopping one of my riders currently.
“Are there any advantages to mounting a side-pull setup, or adding braze-ons for cantilevers? Any advantage to using a pair of levers that are newer than the thirty-five year old stock levers?”
Nope. (Perhaps the same advantage as one might attain in velocity and acceleration by wearing spandex? In other words, theoretically yes, though in practice one can decelerate only so abruptly.)
“Quick reply to your brake question: it stopped me in my tracks.”
I’d expect no less from someone of your caliper…
Thanks, I’ll give the file a try.
Headloss – there shouldn’t be any detectable difference in braking power between side pull and center pull brakes of equivalent eras and quality. I would attribute the ineffectiveness entirely to the pads. The file thing is a good trick, in a pinch, but in the big picture, replacement brake pads are cheap, just go get new ones.
I have actually noticed a difference in quality in the levers themselves between old and modern. Modern levers just seem to be designed more ridigly, less flexy, with better lower friction pivots. I have almost no bikes that still have old era levers, though I have many old era calipers, for what that’s worth.
Replace the cables and housings entirely with modern lined housing, if you haven’t already.
Stop it, give me a break, you’re punishing me and I may throw out a disc, or pull something in my side.
Was in a rush and didn’t notice the lever aspect of your inquiry. Not aware of any improvement in mechanical advantage with more modern brakes. However, changing/upgrading the cables and housing can make a profound difference.
On the Nimitz noted the steel embedded in aluminum issue too. However, my guess is you have old one piece cast aluminum rims and the alloys of that period were not what we have today, so it’s possible it was a messy mix. Old rusty spokes are rideable if not too far gone. Think of them as naturally double butted if the rust is in the middle of the spokes. Remove oxidation, coat with clear (or whatever) lacquer and you are good to go. Heck, you can just rub them down with WD-40, and let them dry 48 hrs and it’s about the same. Because a set of my 27’s were db, I researched this thoroughly, went through the process, and ride them daily. Need I say it? Depending on the degree of corrosion, your mileage may vary. Should you decide to ditch the 27’s at some point would you please contact me first?
edmonds59 is correct in that new brake pads are inexpensive, and they are made from more modern materials and work marginally more efficiently (much more so if one has steel wheels and installs Kool-Stops though). The aluminum of old levers is more flexy than modern alloys, but I haven’t noticed any significant difference in stopping ability (with the lower pivot points), but then I’ve replaced the cables and housing before changing the levers on most rides, and that would mitigate any effect.
“Personally, I’d like to have the feel of riding an antique without the fear of shift lever in my privates…”
Privates? I thought you were in the NAVY? We’ve seamen. Guess your Privates do too?
Uh, sorry if the above offended anyone with a vasectomy, or anyone at all really.
Brake pads are a buck or two each. Cables are maybe $5. Couple drops of oil. If they work, great. That’s the simple stuff. I have four of these old 10-or-12-speeds that I keep rolling.
I’ve never worried about clobbering soft tissue on friction shift levers. You’re far more likely to do that on the bike frame itself.
When I had stem shifters, I managed to injure myself a couple times somehow. Now I have downtube shiftrrs on my bike with friction shifting so nothing to worry about.
I actually have cable and housing laying around, but I haven’t installed them yet… for that matter, I currently don’t have cables for my rear derailleur and rear brake even installed LOL
I just toy around with the bike now and then, but I’ll definitely give the Kool Stops a try.
I think that some of my hostility towards friction shifters is that I didn’t grow up with them. I’m a mountain/hybrid convert just getting into road bikes and I have little experience with the older components. I’m actually inspired by several here, especially Stu, to get old Frenchie up and running regardless of what parts are attached. My biggest problem at the moment is that the chain likes to ride on top of the chainring instead of engaging the teeth… I assume that this has something to do with a mismatched chain or old chainrings rather than any fault of the stem shifters? I tried playing with cable tension and the derailleur adjustment screws with no luck. Perhaps once I ride it a bit, I’ll get used to the stem shifters… if not, I’ll wait to make the plunge into the bar ends.
@fungi, I’m sorry if I added friction to this conversation. Perhaps I could have better indexed my thoughts? I am after all lacking in the hands-on knowledge and overly reliant on rotor memorization. Sure, I’ll let you know if I’m going to ditch the 27s but they really are in bad shape (a few nicks and burrs), but we’ll see what happens with a little TLC.
Seamen? I think all of those were irradiated on the Stennis… that would explain why the ex and I never had children LOL Not that I’m complaining.
@headloss: re your skipping chain – how worn is it? If it’s not worn, then you may indeed have worn out the chainrings and/or cogs. Or, if neither, you could try moving the wheel a bit forward or back in the dropouts. Does that frame have little adjuster screws in the dropouts? Or maybe it used to.
re the brakes: If new KoolStop pads don’t fix your problems, try shortening the straddle cable.
The chain seems ok judging by the 12 links 12″ rule. I’ll try playing around with the wheel later. I didn’t see any adjuster screws on the dropouts, or any evidence that there was one which was removed. I did however notice that the RD limit screws were out of whack, which at the very least is contributing to the problem. I adjusted the rear limit screws and the front is shifting better, but still missing the chainring from time to time.
Is the outer edge of the FD cage keeping the chain from seating, or are you having trouble getting the chain up onto the larger chainring?
If either, then it might behoove you to try Sheldon’s suggestion: “Sometimes front upshifting may be improved by rebending the front edge of the inner cage plate outward a bit. This may be done with an adjustable wrench. This is rarely necessary on modern front derailers, but used to be a very common trick on older, cruder designs.” It has worked for me.
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