S 10th St Bridge Public Meeting Wed. March 25

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erok
Keymaster
#

All-
Sorry this is such late notice.

There’s a public meeting TOMORROW, Wed March 2 on the rehab of the S 10th St Bridge.

The County is looking to lane diet the bridge and add bike lanes.

Flyer and more info here:
http://bikepgh.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/S-Tenth-Street-Bridge-Public-Meeting-Flyer.pdf

Wednesday, March 25, 2015
5-7pm
South Side Market House 12th St and Bingham St (one Bedford Square)

It would be great if you could attend and comment on the proposal.


Marko82
Participant
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Erok, are there any proposed connecting bike-lane plans in the works on either end of the bridge, or is this a let’s put it in and connect it later kind of thing?

It’s welcome either way, just trying to manage expectations before being real excited then somewhat disappointed.


erok
Keymaster
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Any connections will be up to the City, as the bridge is county, but lead to city streets.

they are looking into continuing the connection to E Carson St going south, and north, making a clearer connection to the Eliza Furnace Trail by making the right at the end of the bridge and the right into the lot to connect to the trail. They are also exploring Second Ave options, left into town


erok
Keymaster
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in all likelihood, they won’t all happen at once


StuInMcCandless
Participant
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Can’t make it. It conflicts directly with the Ross Twp bike-ped meeting — which, ironically, caused me to miss the all-‘hoods bike-ped meeting last month, too.

Someone please take notes. That’s a devilishly difficult bridge to get to and use on a bike from just about any direction. That includes the steps up to Duquesne U and the pedestrian chute in the upstream-side of the Armstrong Tunnel.


Benzo
Participant
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I use this bridge to get from southside to downtown frequently, especially in the winter when the trails are solid ice.

If I’m on the trail, I usually access via 18th to Wharton to Muriel to 10th St Bridge. I’ll then loop down to the jail trail via 2nd ave or just take 2nd ave in to downtown and hit the blvd of the allies to penn (or smithfield st).


byogman
Member
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Wish I could make it but can’t. Would definitely be nice to have some space there. I’m all for more infrastructure, but ridership will still be low until the approaches from downtown are improved. Stu didn’t mention 2nd, but it’s not great either, one of those places where the parked cars and attitude of motorists combine badly.


Jamin
Participant
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Thx Eric–I’ll be there.


chrishent
Member
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I’ll try to make this.

I seldom use the 10th St bridge. It just seems like a hassle just to get to the 2nd Ave intersection, but I’m from downtown. But I definitely would like to see good bike infrastructure being placed. Hopefully that’s the case with this bridge.


Marko82
Participant
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This had a very small turnout.

The plan calls for 5 foot bike lanes on both the upstream and downstream sides of the bridge. The lanes will then extend to Carson street on the south end of the bridge. (I forgot to ask if these would have bollards)

The traffic lanes will look a little different than what we are use to. There will be one continuous lane in each direction, then a center lane that is divided mid bridge so that it becomes the left turn lane as you get to the ends of the bridge. So there are three traffic lanes for the whole length of the bridge (each 10 foot), that limits the bike lanes to 2×5=10 feet. The transition from the bike lane into either of the left turn lanes looks a little problematic, but there are lights at each end of the bridge so a worst case is that you make a Copenhagen (?) turn. The drawings didnt show this well.

The project has two phases over two years, and at least one sidewalk will remain usable throughout the project. Target completion date is fall 2017.

Side Note: I had a good long discussion with a few of the PennDot guys about the construction signs blocking the sidewalk on the Ft. Pitt bridge (and other projects too). I’ll start a new thread if anything develops.


Vannevar
Participant
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thanks Marko!


chrishent
Member
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I was there briefly before the meeting began in earnest. Marko summarized it pretty well.

I’ll add the following information, which comes from some of the engineers involved in the project:
– The bike lanes will be painted on, only.

-In addition to the Copenhagen Left, they will encourage cyclists traveling northbound heading towards the Point to turn right on Second Ave, then turn right again into the parking lot to go towards the Jail Trail. The city will facilitate this maneuver in some way.

– Going southbound, a left turn onto Muriel St will be tricky. You’ll likely have to take the lane to do this

– The project engineers said that they conducted a traffic study that demonstrated that the road diet would not negatively affect traffic flow on the bridge. I asked if they counted how many cyclists use the bridge, but they didn’t measure that. However, they did say that part of the reason for installing the bike lanes was that they had received several complaints from pedestrians about cyclists riding on the bridge’s sidewalks.

– there were mentions about a possible bike lane along Second Ave, installed by the city. How long it would be was unclear


Marko82
Participant
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^”they did say that part of the reason for installing the bike lanes was that they had received several complaints from pedestrians about cyclists riding on the bridge’s sidewalks.”

I remember the consultant commenting on this too. I didnt think much of it at the time, but now that I read it I think I know of a plan to get more bike lanes installed by the county…


Benzo
Participant
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I think asking how many bikes currently use the bridge is a red herring. Why would cyclists be using a bridge that’s unfriendly to them and has sidewalks that are in terrible condition, and which has been undergoing construction / maintinance / lane clousures for the last year?

They probably wouldn’t with those conditions, but maybe if the bridge was adapated to be more friendly for cyclists, then they would use that as a primary connector to downtown (to avoid the weirdness at station square and heavy pedestrian traffic / fast car traffic on smithfield street bridge.


chrishent
Member
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@benzo, you’ve summarized very well the reasons why I don’t ride on the 10th St Bridge and why I’m willing to deal with the weirdness around Station Square instead.

I was just wondering if they had measured bike traffic, that’s all. I would have been surprised if they would have, though, since this project is about the bridge’s rehabilitation. Bike lanes just happen to be a small-ish part of it.


Benzo
Participant
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It would however be interesting if they had measured the bike traffic on the bridge before, so then they could compare those numbers to metrics taken after the new lanes are installed and people have time to realize they are there and adjust their habits.


Ahlir
Participant
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Thank you all for the reports!
Some personal notes on that part of town:

Muriel should really be made more bike friendly, with sharrowing, and lanes where there’s the width. A connection to Sydney via 17th would complete a nice low-car-traffic bike route from the Birmingham to the 10th. Carson, while socially interesting, really sucks as a bike route.
Going west from 10th, Bingham/McKean should likewise be bike-ified. Together these would give riders a nice direct way to get to/from downtown. (It would also imply extending the “lanes” on the Smithfield deck out to the intersections at either end, and get bikes off the sidewalks.) Fact is, upgrading South Side routes makes more planning sense than putting lanes on the 10th (but this must be done, to provide biker safety).

And a peeve: The South Side Trail is *not* a through-way: you can’t and shouldn’t bike it at speed. It’s really meant for recreational use. Everyday bike traffic should be on the streets, where it belongs. Don’t accepts arguments to the contrary.


edmonds59
Participant
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^+Every bit of what Ahlir said.
Plus, the Armstrong tunnel should be bike-friendlyized. It is barely wide enough for 2 car lanes, but plenty wide enough for a car lane and a bike lane. The pedestrian walkway is totally inadequate to accomodate peds and bikes. “Uptown” is becoming more enlivened, and from the South, travelling west to Grant to Forbes to access uptown is far from optimal.


htric
Member
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Newish bicyclist here. Muriel is indeed quite intimidating. When I need to get from the trail @ 18th to places like Thick and Carson St Deli, I’ much rather take Carson than Muriel because drivers take it as some super highway to avoid Carson. I would love to see a way to slow that down a bit. When this goes into place I’d likely take bingham to 9th and get back on the trail that way.


StuInMcCandless
Participant
#

My typical use of the bridge is to get to Thick and other destinations closer in than the Hot Metal area, for which the Hot Metal Bridge is a more direct path.

To get to Thick, I usually take Jail Trail to the parking lot, then the river-side sidewalk up to the bridge, then L on Muriel where I get back in the road. My trip back is usually the northbound traffic lane, then through the tunnel, merging L then L on Forbes.

What would help is a direct connection to one or the other sidewalks, either a ramp similar to the city side of the 7th St Bridge, or even a staircase similar to the city side of the 9th St Bridge.

My fear is that making left turns from these bike lanes will become a recipe for disaster. Southbound to Muriel is going to be heavily used, but northbound to Second will get any use, because that tunnel is damn scary to the unbold.


chrishent
Member
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So, this project is finally slated to start next week. No word on bike lanes in the article.

“Three 10-foot lanes and a 5-foot shoulder”:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2017/06/12/Philip-Murray-Bridge-10th-street-bridge-construction-Downtown-South-Side-pittsburgh/stories/201706120013


StuInMcCandless
Participant
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Five-foot shoulder? That tells me, without having to see a diagram, that bikes will be relegated to a trash-filled shoulder while cars fly over the bridge at 10 over the speed limit, with mirrors barely clearing cyclists’ left shoulders.

Convince me I’m wrong.

No.

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