so I apparently still can't put a tire on properly.
yeah, after I take the tube out of the tire, I usually lay the tire on the wheel so I can keep track of where the valve was, and check for glass/pebbles/etc.
So I made it to and from work today.
What I got out of the past few days was this:
1. Flat number 1 was probably some freak accident
2. Flat number 2 (valve) was probably due to pulling on the valve when the pump was hooked up to it, or something similar. Possibly just a bad tube
3. Flat 3 was from me being impatient and frustrated and improperly patching flat 1
4. Flat 4 from when flat 2 (valve) Patched that one up, but since it was so close to the valve, it really didn’t help at all.
5. soapy water on the tire helps it move into its proper place more easily
6. I’m definitely overinflating my tires.
I’m exhausted, but glad this is over with, so I’m gonna just peace out and hope for no more flats!
Piggybacking on a current thread, but still on-topic: so I apparently still can’t put a tire on properly.
Both rim and tire are less than two years old, and the tube is one of these gel-filled flatless types. It was miserable to get off, and I gave up last night trying to get it on; 12 hours later my hands still feel weak.
Just how DO you get that tire on when it just won’t go on?
(The reason it was off was to replace a spoke.)
I generally end up using a tire lever and pray I don’t eff up the tube. there are strategies of warming and stretching the tire which I’ve never (bought into) tried. but I have cried over many a tight tire and the blisters it leaves me with afterwards.
tire levers? I always have trouble getting tires back on as well, but I usually get them on with tire levers….
@stu, try going around the tire and pressing the sidewalls and, more specifically, the bead, into the center of the rim. That will give as much “slack” as possible to slip the remaining section of tire over the sidewall of the rim.
If you use tire levers, I’d try not to take them past the point where they are perpendicular with the plane of the rim. I’ve changed hundreds of motorcycle tires by hand and taking the tire lever past perpendicular was what often led to the tube being pinched/punctured by the lever.
If it’s really tough, sitting the tire out in the sun or heating it up with a hair dryer always worked well for making motorcycle tires more pliable. It won’t stretch the tire bead, and it is no substitute for making sure the bead is fully seated in the rim, but it will help a little, and the same should be true with bike tires. Hope this helps.
A little soapy water (suggested earlier for a slightly different purpose) helps the bead slip over the rim on that last little bit. There’s also a tool out there specifically for getting tires on. I think you can get one at Kraynick’s, or at least use the one Gerry has.
I got a flat yesterday… it turns out the shop (who will remain nameless assuming they make it right) didn’t put any rim tape on the wheel I bought. Somehow it made it over a month like that!
I had a miserable experience with my first tire of the set. For the second, I left it <s>marinade</s> marinate in the sun for a few hours and I also coated one end in baby powder to keep the rubber from sticking to the rim. It went on in about ten minutes tops! Which, was a huge improvement after the first one took me some forty minutes!
*edit for html-scratch… well, if it was supported by WordPress at least. Thanks dmtroyer!
mmmm, italian dressing marinade or more thai soy sauce marinade?
Wearing your cycling gloves (I never ride without them) also helps with rolling that last bit of tire over the rim with your palm.
I don’t know what to make of the rim tape saga. The shop was skeptical (as was I, honestly) that I could have made it 1 mile much less ~150 without rim tape, but they fixed it for free anyways so no problem.
I dismounted the tire in my workshop and checked again and found no sign of rim tape there, so I don’t have any other explanation. I pumped up the tire for the first time in a month on Sunday, rode ~15 miles, and on monday it was flat. The hole is exactly aligned with the valve stem and exactly 1″ away (too far to be caused by the valve hole).
FWIW, my tire (vittoria randonneur) seems to go on/off this rim (Mavic A319) WAY easier than the Salsa Delgado I used to have, which always left me swearing profusely. Maybe that’s my imagination too, or maybe there’s some subtle difference?
I have delgados and bought a pair of randonneurs and promptly sold them because I could not get them on. rim diameters can vary by mms even for standard sizes such as 700c
” rim diameters can vary by mms even for standard sizes such as 700c”
That’s been my experience.
It’s important to note that the bead seat diameter is not the same as the overall diameter.
From Sheldon: “The rim’s diameter will generally be 6-8 mm larger than the Bead Seat Diameter, depending on how high the rim flanges stick up above the bottom of the rim channel.”
I dismounted the tire in my workshop and checked again and found no sign of rim tape there, so I don’t have any other explanation.
Eaten by the heretofore undiscovered rim tapeworm.
(Granted, this explanation is not quite as plausible as “the bike shop forgot it” explanation. Unless you hear slithering and chomping near your other tire.)
Kinda looks like cburch…
*edit to add link* If you haven’t seen that episode of South Park, it is HIGHLY recommended!
Anonymous 03/21/2012 at 1:29am #
The fault lies not in the tire nor the tired nor the tirerer, but with the (gel filled) tube. The liquid is basically non-compressible, so I’ve found one needs to make sure every bit of air is out of the tube, and sometimes some of the gel (pull the valve first), in order to get the tire on over the tube.
Even a small volume of allegedly compressible air in a tube paired with a tight fitting tire can be troublesome and problematic.
If all protruding spokes and all pointy and sharp bits have been dulled, rim tape is essentially non-essential.
I have cried over many a tight tire
That was me tonight, too! And not for the first time! I find bike maintenance soothing when it goes well and totally enraging when it doesn’t.
I had the bright idea to try and change slick tires for knobbies tonight and whether it’s the cold or whatever, I just did not get anywhere. This is definitely not the first time and I feel like I should just get new rims at this point since they appear to be the common denominator in all this.
What are your slick tires? The ones with the kevlar belts (randonneur, ribmo, etc) are a pain to get off the rim (and even harder to get back on). haha – stupid me I sold the bike with the mavic rim I mentioned a few posts above so now I’m back to no fun.
That is definitely one thing I miss about having my only bike be a MTB. You never have a problem with those tires; usually you don’t even need a lever.
Hang in there Ian. I am always near tears and with at least 2 tire levers before I can get randonneurs on, but to me it is worth the humiliation for the lack of flats! Just take some breaks and work on while you are also cooking or something.
Usually I find it’s only the first time that I put on a new tire that is really frustrating. Once the bead is initially mounted it seems to get easier.
However, I’ve considered purchasing one of these which is certainly cheaper than new rims.
It takes me forever to change ribmos also. I developed a huge nasty blister on my left thumb that was annoying for a week after I changed the tires last.
Any reviews on the “bead jack” thing that ohiojeff (indirectly) mentioned?
I put my Randonneurs back on today and it sucked just as bad as I remembered. My thumbs hurt like hell, my fiks got all f’d up, and the worst part was I somehow managed to break the tire. At the moment $12 seems like a small price to pay to find out how it works.
(“break the tire” meaning somehow the rubber got split for about 1″ parallel to the wire bead – the wire was exposed. Seemed like a blowout waiting to happen so I bought a new tire.)
you broke the tire?!?! IF you managed to break a tire without the $12 devise, I’m not exactly confident that the extra leverage wouldn’t just help you to break a tire faster.
If the tire split parallel to the bead, I think it is fine to use. The pressure from the inner-tube should keep it from splitting any further, but don’t ride it at a low pressure and make sure that it seats correctly.
I’ve only managed to do that once which is why I’m now very liberal with application of the talcum.
I had a pair of those Vittoria Rando tires. I got so pissed off, I just cut the (brand new) bead w/ a pair of dikes. Eff those tires. Waste of my skin.
Yeah, the split was basically right on top of the wire, running down the length of it. Since I put the tire on backwards the first time I got to take it off and put it on again (note to self: when bike is upside down, reverse apparent wheel direction) and that’s when I noticed it.
I wasn’t sure if it was safe or not – I took it to the shop with me and they also thought better safe than sorry. My thinking was, that part of the tire is no longer really connected to anything, and the tube is going to try to push it up out of the rim. At least it was the back tire which was half worn out.
I might try ribmos but I hear they’re just as bad. I like not getting flats too much to go back to normal tires.
RIBMOs are horrible to get on the rim, but if I can do it, you can. I am weak.
I broke down and bought a Kool Stop Bead Jack.
It definitely does the job, although I’m not convinced it won’t break given the amount of force that is being applied to a fairly insignificant piece of plastic.
My thumbs and palms are happy.
My thumbs may hurt but at least I don’t have that clickaclickaclicka sound anymore. Of course I’ll probably wipe out on the ice when it gets cold in like 2 days.
Don’t know if this advice has already been given, so I’ll give it either way
Put one side of tire on rim, matching some tire marking up with the valve so when you get a flat you’ll have an easier time matching hole in innertube to hole in tire. I also mark my innertube drive and non drive side with a marker to help with this as well
Other side of the tire: Start by the valve, sometimes you have to play with it to get the valve in and the bead seated, easier if you do that first. Go around the tire and squeeze it in towards the nipples. This can potentially give you a little easier time when going around
Eventually you’ll get to the point where it’s super hard and a PITA. Try to avoid using your thumbs as much as possible. I’ve lost several patches of skin around my thumb joint screwing around with tires
Don’t try and force the middle of the stuck section. Slowly apply pressure from the sides and use the bottom of your palm. The motion you want to do is kind of like turning a grip shifter or pretending to rev a motor cycle. You can kind of use your body weight if you keep your arm stiff to help with the rocking motion
You can slowly get a little bit, a little bit more, and eventually it will pop over and you can now wipe your brow and hope you didn’t screw up the patch/debris removal
I recently had a battle with the aforementioned Vittoria Randonneurs 28mm and Sun Rims DS-2s. Tech at Pro-bikes took 10 minutes to get it off and i took much longer trying to put it on again at home when I changed my mind about what tire i wanted on the bike.
It would NOT go on by hand. Looked very much like Stu’s. I tried palming it on and pushing with my thumbs. Eventually I worked it on by donning my riding gloves for padding and pushing on the bead a mm at a time with my plastic tire lever. I had to use my leg braced against my elbow for extra force. I pushed so hard that the rubber shaved off the steel bead for a good 10 inches as i worked my way around the wheel, but it went on. No flats so far.
Things I learned:
1. Should have used a lubricant on the bead like soapy water or lithium grease.
2. It’s not the tire or the wheel necessarily that makes it hard. It’s the combo. Buddy of mine has ribmos on his Kona commuter and they go on super easy. My combo was very miserable. That tire is nearly indestructable though.
The funny thing is, the only flat I’ve had in the past 4 years, I got from running over a tack in the parking lot after a Free Ride class.
Don’t let that stop you from taking the class though, they have plenty of wheels there so you don’t have to use your own. It’s really not that bad – some tires are just temperamental but it’s still better than walking home, or worse having someone come pick you up… although bussing might not be so bad depending on where you are.
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