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fultonco
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Z, to avoid CS Blvd and the narrow section of Willow, from Arlington, go into the T lot for the CS Stop.  Cross the tracks by the “ticket taker booth” and follow the path to and between the two apartment buildings and come out on Bockstoce.  Turn left.  Go to the top, back down, right at the stop sign and then follow out onto Willow (bear right).  Follow Willow all the way to Conner, then turn left (be careful, there is a lot of traffic on Conner – I am not proud and use the sidewalk sometimes).  Go to 88, turn right, go about 1/10th of a mile and turn into the Port Authority Lot and follow the driveway around to Milford.  Turn right.

To get to where you were going on W. Library, instead of going up Brady, Longcrest, and Edward, stay on Milford.  Go straight past Highland.  At the crest, take a left onto Meadowbrook.  Go to the light.  Turn left on Bethel Church.  Turn right at the light onto Highland.  Go right on Summit, left on Belmont, left on Center, and right on W. Library.  That way, you’ve avoided some hills and most of the traffic to that point.

If you want to get all the way to Library Station, follow W. Library all the way to a right on Bertha.  Follow Bertha to near its end and cut through the parking lot of Virgili’s Beer Distributorship.  Cross South Park Road and go onto Main Street.  Follow it to the end.  Take a right on W. Munroe and the next right on O’Neill.  Go right on Logan, left on Irishtown, and right onto the Montour Trail.

Follow the trail to the Library Branch and turn left.  Take the Library Branch across the bridge over route 88 and to the end at Pleasant Street.  Go right and follow Pleasant around until you see the parking lot for the T Station at Library.

Very little muss, fuss, and the asshole quotient is greatly diminished


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco,

Library Rd. south of the southern intersection with Brightwood Rd. Is not too bad. I was also trying to avoid the Montour Trail as it is probably covered in un-melted snow and ice. The video is still processing and I will upload and post the URL as soon as it is done processing. I am processing the 12 Minute chapters from the GoPro with Ffmpeg on Fedora Linux to remove the barrel distortion caused by the fisheye lens. I will also concatenate the resultant .MP4 files into one large one in order to upload to YouTube. I did not go on Connor Rd. due to the lack of a traffic light where Willow Ave. intersects a 4-lane road. Since I was turning right off of Smith Rd. anyway, I thought that would be easier. Descending Castle Shannon Blvd. is not a problem. It would be much more stressful climbing Castle Shannon Blvd. into Mt. Lebanon from Downtown Castle Shannon.

Related to Castle Shannon, I read that prior to 2008, there were parking meters in the business district. They were removed as a way to revitalize the business district. I used to hate parking meters with a passion because I thought they resulted in the decline of neighborhoods. Presently, I am all for parking meters and see them as a way to discourage excessive use of motor vehicles. Essentially, If you do not want to pay the parking meter, then walk, bike, or take the T to the Castle Shannon business district. Installing bike racks in the business districts would also be a good idea not only in Castle Shannon, but in Bethel Park, Dormont, Library (South Park Township), Overbrook, and Brentwood. Increasing the number of bike racks in Mt. Lebanon and installing parking meters on Brightwood Rd, South Park Rd., and W. Library Ave. in Bethel Park would be a good idea.


zzwergel
Member
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Here is today’s video.


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco, Regarding Milford Dr. That is not going to save any time vs staying on Library Rd. I think someone should contact Bethel Park police about enforcing the stop sign at Hillcrest St. and maybe adding another stop sign at Casswell Dr. in both directions.


Mikhail
Member
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from Donati, if the traffic gets to you, the sidewalk can be used ’til you get to Pro Bikes.

Actually Donati has a traffic light and you can cross Ft. Couch right there and use side walk to get to the garage. In this case you can use pedestrian walk way to get to the station avoiding garage.

The stretch at the very beginning of your video, on Milford, between Washington Junction and Hillcrest Drive is pretty tough at rush hour.

There is slightly other way — from Washington junction (south direction) stay on pedestrian way that goes to Mollyhill part and then to Santa Fe. Stay on Santa Fe. Then you can get on Casswell and right on Milford or continue on Santa Fe, left on Conestoga, left on Highland, right on Meadowbrook, right on Strathmore.

 


zzwergel
Member
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Wasn’t the elevator a valid way to get to the station?


zzwergel
Member
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Is there an easier way to climb the front side of Mt. Washington than P.J. McArdle Roadway, Sycamore St., Arlington Ave., or 18th St.? Is Brosville St. any easier? I know Josephine St. has speeding traffic on it. Is it any easier to climb Southern Ave. than it is to climb Boggs Ave. or Warrington Ave.?


zzwergel
Member
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I just looked on Google maps. At the intersection of Brookside Blvd. and Cherokee Rd. in Upper St. Clair., there are stop signs in both directions on Brookside Blvd., but no stop sign on Cherokee Rd. Isn’t this a recipe for T-bone collisions? There should be a stop sign on Cherokee Rd. and none on Brookside Blvd.

Here’s a link:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.339365,-80.0620258,3a,75y,357.42h,82.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svAvAJiB84tEJMLWEsJbuyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by  zzwergel.

fultonco
Member
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I will try to comment on some of these previous posts that I am just now able to catch up with.

Regarding the broad topic of biking on Library Road (Route 88) and whether or not it saves time, I would say that saving time is not usually something I am trying to do when biking but it’s a free country and a wide world of sports so, to each his or her own.  I stay off 88 as much as is possible because it just isn’t enjoyable for me.  If someone doesn’t mind it, more power to them.  I like knowing all he backroads and alternate ways to get places.  I even use them when driving and often can get around gridlock.  My wife is from Clearfield County and she had a hard time learning Pittsburgh because she says I go a different way every time I go somewhere.  It’s because of biking.

Regarding that questionable stretch of Milford Drive, it sucks but I’ve been riding it for years, have attempted to let authorities know, but nobody gives a darn, so I just go about my business and do what I do.  I’ve ridden through Molly Hill Park on many occasions but it has its issues.  There are steps that, unless you are like Danny McCaskill, a dismount must occur to traverse them.  The main road through the park is a short but extremely steep hill.  It becomes covered with various tree droppings in different seasons and can be slippery when wet.    I’ve ridden up and down that steep hill many times.  Some days, I just don’t have anything to prove, so I take Milford.

Regarding the sidewalk options on Fort Couch, point well taken.  The opposite sidewalk slides around right to the T Station and is a good option.  I’m usually coming from the opposite side, the light is usually red, and it doesn’t seem to recognize a bicycle.   But I can just continue on up the sidewalk and visit the guys at Pro Bikes.  Their light is usually tripped by the frequent traffic coming from the South Hills Village Mall so I don’t have to wait too long.

Regarding the intersection of Brookside and Cherokee, I ride back in that area fairly often.  That intersection is a non-issue.  The traffic volume in that area is low and it is usually moving fairly slowly.  If you obey the stop sign, you are not going to have a problem.  I like in Bethel Park, so it pains me to say this, but on the whole, the drivers in Saint Clair are much more courteous.  Most of them wave to me to go and they wait for me.  I thank with a wave and verbally, especially in the warmer months when the windows are down.

Happy Motoring !

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by  fultonco.

zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco,

What I was saying is that motorists trying to avoid traffic lights on Library Rd. by taking Milford Dr. is not going to save them any time. In fact, it might take even longer because of the stop signs, lower speed limit, as well as it being out of the way. Speeding and not obeying the stop signs on Milford Dr. is also likely to irritate the people who live in that neighborhood in the same way through-traffic on Western Ave. in Aspinwall bothers me as well as a lot of the residents. Cutting through Aspinwall via 2nd St. is not going to save time vs staying on Freeport Rd. because 2nd St.  has a stop sign at every intersection and ends on Delefield Rd. which dumps you out onto a very congested block of Freeport Rd. anyway. I’ve seen motorists roll through several stop signs on Western Ave. because there are four of them in a 1/4 stretch of road. About 90% of the time, there is no cross traffic so they just roll the stop signs and speed mid-block to make up for the time lost at the stop signs. I think installing roundabouts along Milford Dr. where there are no stop signs would be a good idea to help calm traffic.


Mikhail
Member
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Wasn’t the elevator a valid way to get to the station?

 

Yes but…

  1. Time wise coming from Donati-Ft.Couch on the station side sidewalk it’s a couple minutes longer.
  2. You don need to deal with drivers who are not very attentive at the moment — they are looking for free spot mostly.
  3. During rush hours (T rush hours) elevator carries people and I don’t think you can fit bike easily inside of it.

Mikhail
Member
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I just looked on Google maps. At the intersection of Brookside Blvd. and Cherokee Rd. in Upper St. Clair., there are stop signs in both directions on Brookside Blvd., but no stop sign on Cherokee Rd. Isn’t this a recipe for T-bone collisions? There should be a stop sign on Cherokee Rd. and none on Brookside Blvd.

Nope, it’s not a recipe for T-Bone. It’s actually quite opposite. It calms traffic on Brookside while any turn on Cherokee naturally calms traffic. In addition, Brookside is kind of closed turns in any direction even it looks almost OK at the intersection. If you let people fly there then it’s going to be t-bone recipe. People will exceed speed limit pretty significantly.

 


Mikhail
Member
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because she says I go a different way every time I go somewhere. It’s because of biking.

I have similar problem with my wife too. :)

Regarding that questionable stretch of Milford Drive, it sucks but I’ve been riding it for years, have attempted to let authorities know, but nobody gives a darn, so I just go about my business and do what I do. I’ve ridden through Molly Hill Park on many occasions but it has its issues. There are steps that, unless you are like Danny McCaskill, a dismount must occur to traverse them. The main road through the park is a short but extremely steep hill.

Well, I use both Milford and Molly Hill park for commuting purposes (coming from home to SHVG or Washington Junction — I live in USC near south boundary) so I am trying to watch time (just trying to be on time for the train). As a result I am trying to get statistics for different routes and bikes — road one and folding one.

 

As Stu sad — steps are our friends! :) If they help me to get to the end faster — I use them. But I agree it’s something that should be taken into consideration.

 

But I can just continue on up the sidewalk and visit the guys at Pro Bikes.

I like to do it too. :) But when I use this route for commuting (bike+train) they are either not open yet or are closed already. I do another trick on my road bike though. If light is red, I’ll go left through the parking lot/sidewalk to the beginning of left turn line, cross two lines of traffic and up Ft.Couch again to make a left turn at Donati.

 

it pains me to say this, but on the whole, the drivers in Saint Clair are much more courteous.

Thanks. :) I live in USC. And I can tell that given an opportunity — people will speed up. I use to be involved with local police. And we talked about stop signs placement, round-abouts, etc. They are trying to control this issue.


Mikhail
Member
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motorists trying to avoid traffic lights on Library Rd. by taking Milford Dr. is not going to save them any time. In fact, it might take even longer because of the stop signs, lower speed limit, as well as it being out of the way.

 

Zack, you are very correct if road is under usual conditions. But it’s completely different story during rush hours. Back street could save you a lot of time. If you know your way. For example, during rush hour and total traffic jam at 88 (Library road) the following route from 51 to USC could save you up to 25-30 minutes:

Coming east on 51, don’t turn right to  88, instead go to Provost and turn right there.

Right at Weyman

Right at McRoberts — be carrefull around Municipal Park since speed limit is 15 and police just around the corner.

Leftt at Hamilton.

Right at  Marge

Left at Lucile

Right at Valery

Right at 88

Left at Milford

Right at Strathmore

Left Graeser

Left Church

Right at Bethel Church

Left at McMurray

 

And this is due to a three-four traffic lights on 88 that you have to sit and wait for multiple cycles.

 


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco, @mikhail,

Would either of you like to meet me at Washington Junction this Sunday after 1:00 PM? I would like someone to show me alternatives to Library Rd. as well as Milford Dr. during rush hour. It would really be apperciated and maybe we can stop somewhere and get lunch.


zzwergel
Member
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Bumping thread. I need an answer today.

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by  zzwergel.

zzwergel
Member
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Bumping again


fultonco
Member
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Sorry Z, I was helping some family with a home remodeling project and just now saw your post.  We’re back at it again tomorrow.  Perhaps next Saturday?


fultonco
Member
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Regarding Mikhail’s comments on motorists saving time by taking residential streets, I agree with all.  Throw in the fact that there is little fear of penalty for not obeying posted speed limits or regulatory signs and the trip becomes that much faster.  So many people have been doing this, and for so long, nearly everyone accepts it as normal.


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco, Do you live in the neighborhood through which Milford Dr. passes? If so, One thing you can do is form a group along with other residents who are concerned about the safety and noise of that street. Create signs and put them in the yards of the concerned residents. This was done along Melwood Ave. in Polish Hill. If the weather permits, I can meet you at Washington Junction on Saturday. If it is too cold, snowy, raining, and/or too windy, it will have to be rescheduled again.


Mikhail
Member
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Zack,  I have a club ride tomorrow from 16th street bridge at 1pm. So I am out.

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Mikhail.

zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco,

So far on Saturday, the high is 30°F. Wind 9MPH, Partly cloudy


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco, I think I can go to Washington Junction this Saturday.


zzwergel
Member
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Is this a good way to go from Potomac Station to Willow Station?

  • R. Potomac Ave.
  • R. Belrose Ave.
  • L. Hillsdale Ave.
  • R. Dell Ave.
  • L. Kenmont Ave. (cross Bower Hill Rd. where there is no traffic light or 4-way stop)
  • R. Florence Pl.
  • L. Meadowcroft Ave.
  • L. Shady Dr.
  • L. Castle Shannon Blvd. (Opposing traffic doesn’t stop)
  • R. Castle Shannon Blvd.
  • R. Willow Station walkway

How hard is it to cross Bower Hill Rd. where there is no traffic light or stop signs on Bower Hill Rd? Is it difficult turning left from Shady Dr. onto Castle Shannon Blvd?

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  zzwergel.

zzwergel
Member
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Actually, on Saturday, I might go to the meeting in Beechview about Complete Streets.


fultonco
Member
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“Actually, on Saturday, I might go to the meeting in Beechview about Complete Streets.”

No sweat Z.

Regarding your route from Potomac to Willow Station:

I would take a left on Florence, right on Lilac, and left on Shady.

From Castle Shannon Boulevard, go right on Poplar, left on Cypress Way, and right on Castle Shannon Boulevard.  That part of Castle Shannon Boulevard (CSB) is very busy.

Another option, to avoid busy CSB is possible but there is one hill.  Instead of going left on CSB, from Shady, go right.  Then bear left onto Hemlock and go up the hill, crest it, and then go down to a left onto Jefferson.  Bear left on Avon, right on Brucewood, and left on Mount Lebanon Boulevard.  Go past the shopping plaza and turn right onto Cooke Drive, which bears to the left and becomes Bockstoce.  Follow Bockstoce to the end, which is a T.  Turn left, go down the hill, cross the tracks and you are at the Overbrook Junction / Willow Station Complex.

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  fultonco. Reason: clarity
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  fultonco.

zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco,

Where is Lilac St? There is no Lilac St off of Florence Pl. and I still have to cross Bower Hill Rd. where there is no traffic light or stop signs on Bower Hill Rd.


zzwergel
Member
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Lilac Way. I see now. It didn’t show up on the map, but I can see the street sign in StreetView. Still need to cross Bower Hill Rd. though. Also, it appears there is a path between the Pennsylvania Blvd. (Poplar stop) and Cooke Ln. (Arlington stop).

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  zzwergel.
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  zzwergel.

fultonco
Member
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Lilac Way is a viable “way” to get to Shady.

Crossing Bower Hill is not that difficult.  Just wait for a clearing and do it.  Some motorists will let you pass.

I’ve never used that path, so I cannot comment.  Looks like it could be muddy right now.  I’ll check it out some time.


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco,

I think I’ll be able to check out the route and the path this Saturday. I can also check out Milford Dr. as well.


fultonco
Member
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Earlier would be better for me.  Do you know how to use the private messaging that is associated with this forum?  If so, we can work out the details there.


fultonco
Member
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BTW, A couple of days ago, I did have a nice chat with Officer Andrew Volchko, of the Bethel Park PD Traffic Division.  The Department is well aware of the traffic on that stretch of Milford Drive and in other areas of Bethel Park.  He was very cordial and understood the problems bicyclists and pedestrians face on these roads.  He did advise that if I would get a license plate and report the incidents, they would follow up.  Certainly, if I or anyone else had video, it could be used and they have used some in the past.  We talked about Molly Hill Park and he told me that just recently, someone drove their car down through there and couldn’t go any further because of the steps and the narrow Port Authority walking path.  He asked the driver, “Where did you think you were going to go.”  The driver replied, “I guess I didn’t think about that.”  In all, it was a positive conversation.  I am undecided if I will take the time and/or make the effort to become further involved but am leaning toward finding the time to do so.  Keep the videos, photos, and accounts coming.  They will help.

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  fultonco.

fultonco
Member
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Took a ride on “your” path today, Z.  It’s rough but could be a viable alternative to Castle Shannon Boulevard.  Looks like walkers use it frequently.  I mapped the route on Ride with GPS and uploaded several photographs.

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/20491785#


zzwergel
Member
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@fultonco, I’ll give PM a try.


fultonco
Member
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Took a short ride into Mount Lebanon this morning before the snow started sticking to the roads.  A photo of Lilac Way and another of Bockstoce Avenue, near the Trolley stops, were uploaded to the route map.

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/20514574#


zzwergel
Member
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Why does Bethel Park and Castle Shannon seem to contain sizable amounts of transit unfriendly urban sprawl despite the T going through the two boroughs? There are many residence that are near the T stops on the Library branch, yet the street network makes them artificially further away and less likely for residents to walk to them. I think installing bike racks at Palm Garden, Pennant, Belasco, Shiras, Potomac, Poplar, Denise, McNeilly, Killarney, Smith Road, Casswell, Bethel Village, Hillcrest, Lytle, Monroe (W. Munroe St.), Sarah, Kings School Rd., Beagle, and Library will help bring more ridership to these stops from residences further away. Most of the stops listed are street-level stops which borading and alighting with a bike is not allowed. Allowing people to bike to these stops from their home and/or place of work would allow these existing stops to have a better radius of service and become attractive options for people further away for commuting, shopping, recreational, and other travel needs.


fultonco
Member
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A book could probably be written on that subject.  Essentially, as we’ve already discussed, if the roads leading to the station were more pedestrian and bike friendly, at least the opportunity to get there, under one’s own power and with a greater degree of safety, would exist.  I used to think that if better conditions existed, more people would avail themselves of them but now, I’m not so sure.  These things are not valued in the South Hills.  What seems to be valued are trails you have to drive to in larger, faster, and sporty motor vehicles that we work all the time to pay for.  Then we go to gyms that we pay for and exercise breathing stuffy air while watching walls of televisions.  But the people who walk and ride bikes to the Trolley Stations are the ones who are eccentric.

  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  fultonco.

zzwergel
Member
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There is nowhere to (legally) park cars near all the stops listed, excluding Potomac, Lytle, and Library. The parking for Potomac is quite limited so most of it’s regular users either walk or bike to and from it. The reason why I did not include other stops can be attributed to one or more of the reasons listed below. Also I would like to include a few coat hanger style racks on the premises of Willow and Overbrook Junction as well as eliminate Smith Rd. from the list due to proximity to Willow, Overbrook Junction, and Washington Junction)

 

  • Proximity to other off-site Bike Parking (Wood St., Steel Plaza, 1st Ave., Station Square)
  • Proximity to other stops with on-site racks or a listed stop (Stevenson, Arlington, Mesta, Sandy Creek, West Library, Memorial Hall)
  • Stop Located in a dense, walkable neighborhood (Smith Rd., Mesta, South Park Rd.)
  • Stop has on-site bike parking already (Dormont Junction, Mt. Lebanon(Had it since the station was built in the 1980s!), Castle Shannon, Gateway, North Side, Allegheny, South Hills Junction, Washington Junction, South Hills Village)
  • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  zzwergel.

Mikhail
Member
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Why does Bethel Park and Castle Shannon seem to contain sizable amounts of transit unfriendly urban sprawl despite the T going through the two boroughs?

 

 

 

This cartoon reflects the state a lot of people are in. :) And this if not complete answer then a large part of answer to your question.

 

 


zzwergel
Member
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3:40. That is so funny. Why did the street car open into the median?

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